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I kind of hate the My Jobs feature on Indeed. It's great to know when your application was viewed, but when a prospective employer rejects your application within hours of you submitting it, that's just a little depressing.

Mistborn Secret History

WOO HOO I JUST FINISHED READING FELLOWSHIP OF THE FREAKING THING!!

Heralds Madness The Heralds are insane, and that seems to a plot point of increasing significance with Kaladin’s focus on mental health in RoW, Ishar’s plan being dangled as a plot thread for the upcoming KoW. However, a lot of unclear with the herald's madness. I don’t think it’s been confirmed but it’s collectively accepted that a major part of the problem is a ‘magical’ inversion of their divine attributes/purpose. However, what’s causing this isn’t clear. There are so many factors at play that could be screwing with the Heralds heads: Normal PTSD from millennia of torture + war Immortality related Cognitive shadow decay (brain trying to handle millennia of memories) Spiritweb impact of 'breaking' during the oathpact Spiritweb impact of actually abandoning the oathpact BAM being bound Honor's death/shattering Guilt over abandoning one of their closest companions to be tortured alone ??? (Nale specific, but bonding to a Highspren is making him worse) The heralds seem to think that this is purely a result (1) PTSD. Kalak says that they shouldn't be 'getting worse' anymore. Nale tells Szeth at Thaylen Field his loss of compassion is directly torture-related Ash told Adolin that "thousands of years of torture" is what made the heralds insane. Ishar seems only to make the ideal = lucidity connection when Navani swears her ideal. Ishar also says he needs to be sane to fix the oathpact, not that fixing the oathpact will make him sane. I don’t think it’s actually on the herald's radar that they have a 'magical' problem. The source of the magical insanity can't just be the impact of abandoning the oathpact or breaking since Taln seems to still have the 'inverted attribute (resolute/dependable - comatose and cowardice) and he never participated in either of those two things. The cognitive shadow memory problems are definitely an issue but it doesn’t make sense as a root of the herald's ironic madness. I think it's something later, probably BAM being bound and/or Honor's death, that is causing the 'curse'. Heralds are closer to Nahal spren than humanity at this point, per Kalak, and also directly connected to Honor (like the Sibling). What happened to the Sibling and all the spren was drastic and completely uwpredicted. Heralds getting uniquely broken (on top of trauma + memory problems) fits with the other effects we've seen. Furthermore, while, the heralds do seem insane even in the original prologue (Kalak's anxiety, he sees cowardice in Jezerin’s eyes) but it’s nowhere near what we see in modern Roshar. Jezerin is leagues more put together, and while anxiety does seem to be part of Kalak’s madness, but I would argue that his magical anxiety seems to be specifically social anxiety (he’s at his most fearful surrounded by crowds at Gavliar’s party and the Trial) as an inversion of the social organizer role willshapers seems to have had. What we saw in the prologue than the completely reasonable fear of torture driven by PTSD. Finally, on a meta level, this would also help tie two of the major plot threads (Dalinar’s plan to fix the Heralds and Adolin/Shallan’s quest to release BAM) in KoW.

Or are they? Compared to our firearms they are. There is no question about that. @SkipMage and @mathiau are likelier to be able to give more examples than I but Skulls thick enough to stop a bullet thieves considering an oak table sure to stop bullets are not realistic with modern firearms. But are we looking at modern firearms? I would say we are not. And that cleans up the discrepancy. I would say that Scadrian firearms match ours in performance somewhere around 1800 in terms of muzzle velocity. But this is not a technical oddity. It makes very much sense in their terms. Hence I did not include this in a thread dedicated to technological oddities (and frankly, it had enough examples). I will allow myself a slight discourse into the philosophy of engineering. If you build a gun and its ammunition you have competing design goals muzzle energy stopping power accuracy rate of fire reliability durability price And possibly more. But Scadrians are in an environment where fights against allomancers are a possibility. Hence they could never switch exclusively to guns. Crossbows and wooden clubs (they call them duelling canes because it sounds better) are still a thing. Against a Coinshot a gunfighter is at a disadvantage. The Coinshot can carry more ammunition, does not need a rifle, is quieter and, most important, can sense and disarm you. Are you at an incurable disadvantage? Well, no. You do have one major area in which you have a potential edge: accuracy You have gunsights. The Coinshot has not. More important, your accuracy allows you to outrange Coinshots in a sensory sense. Waxillium when flying up a highrise is limited to using the structural steel in it. He cannot push on the streetlights on the ground. His range against objects in that size class must be below 200m at most. That is well under the range of our rifles. It is not well below the range of historical firearms. Hitting somebody with a standard military gun made around 1800 at a range of 200m is outrageous. But not because the bullet would not fly that far or fail to kill you at such range, but because your accuracy was hopeless. They did not even try in military tactics. That has consequences. The main design goal of firearms development is shifted. Muzzle energy is pointless, if using it means coming so close that you will already have been killed before you are in range. Your primary design goal is now accuracy at range and secondarily rate of fire, because you surely won't live long enough for a lengthy reload against a coinshot, nor is the stopping power to reliably drop a Pewterarm with one bullet within easy reach, nor will you hit an electrum allomancer without a hail of bullets. Remember that Wellington, Blücher and Napoleon still fielded riders whose body armor was expected to stop a longarm's bullet. Complaints about performance are - I am afraid - anachronistic and not adapted to circumstances.

Who saw that they are making a Wheel of Time SERIES on AMAZON?! I haven’t even gotten halfway through the first book and I’m already pumped!!!!!!

Fadran caught her like the absolute mad lad he always was and shanked the dyrling in the head.

Skyward

By far the worst sin against physical realism in firearms I've seen in Mistborn comes from the Wax flashback scene, when he fires a bullet out of a naked cartridge to kill the bad guy. Bullets do not work that way. Without a barrel to channel the powder explosion, the bullet won't accelerate up to any serious velocity. To put it simply, you can't get a gunshot without a gun.

I’ve spent a bunch of time this week trying to piece together how the singers might have betrayed the spren. So I feel like I can fairly confidently say that this is as solid a theory as any I’ve seen/come up with. All we really know is that it happened a long time ago, it wasn’t as bad a betrayal as the Recreance, and at least some of the singers (Leshwi) feel like it was bad enough to require forgiveness. The through line of the singers’ sense of betrayal really seems to be outrage that the spren bonded with and granted Surgebinding to humans. So the idea that they might have then helped corrupt BAM in a way that allowed her to eventually provide forms of power and Voidlight to singers feels consistent. It has the added appeal of the singer betrayal eventually contributing to the human betrayal (assuming that horror over what the imprisonment of BAM did to the singers played at least some role in prompting the Recreance).

Windrunners: Windspren Lightweavers: Creationspren Elsecaller: Logicspren Bondsmith: Gloryspren Edgedancer: Lifespren Skybreaker: Gravityspren Truthwatcher: ? Dustbringer: Flamespren? Stoneward: I’ve seen it floated around that it could be painspren Willshaper: ? …maybe starspren, I’m not basing it off anything but it’s a thought Not really sure about any of this except first 5

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this @Jofwu and for asking the question of Brandon. Fwiw, I had the same interpretation of the Jasnah/Ivory line about "lived in death" as @LewsTherinTelescope. That the Skybreakers lived surrounded by death because of all the killing they did. I can see how using the Honorblade potentially gets you around the issue of Melishi no longer having Bondsmith powers (assuming he and the Sibling agreed to break their bond). But then why would the third emerald in the gem archive say "It would require a special prison. And Melishi."? Anyone could have used the Honorblade. I suppose it's possible that the Shin lent the blade specifically to Melishi, but that feels like a stretch. For now, despite the WoB, I'm doggedly sticking to the ideas that BAM accomplished her connection to all of the singers by connecting with Roshar itself, and that the wounding of the spren (whatever it was) came from them also being connected to Roshar. To that end, someone on Discord recently brought to my attention this line from RoW 75 where Vaiu is talking to Adolin about the gathering of deadeyes outside Lasting Integrity: You're right about the vagueness of the "in the same way" language. So maybe it's just that the Sibling was more significantly Connected to Roshar than your average spren, and so was more impacted by BAM's imprisonment.

LG79/AN10 Day 2: A Tragic Blow Thane huddled behind a rock as the stormwall hit. The wind was intense, as always. He held up the gemstone with the captive spren inside. He started getting into the right mindset to change into workform, then stood up against the gale and smashed the gemstone on the ground. The gravitationspren flew up, and went into his chest, into his gemheart. And his whole body and mind changed. Suddenly his body had additional muscles, and was bulkier. And most importantly, he had clarity of thought now. It was still colored by the non-aggression of Workform, but he could hear the rhythms so much easier now. And then, he went and headed into the cave with the children. Others of them liked staying out in the storm, but not Thane. He had heard of singers being struck by rocks and such even after the stormwall, and he liked to avoid that sort of thing. He hummed to the rhythm of joy, enjoying the feeling of the music sounding in his head, unsullied by dullform. As he walked into the cave, he saw a singer lying on the ground. He crouched down, singing the rhythm of anxiety as he tried to rouse the singer. They didn't move. It looked like their head had been bashed by a rock. His thoughts now clear, he investigated closer, while still respecting the body. Could that kind of blow have come from a highstorm? A small part of him reminded him of the fact that there were too many of them. A traitor might have this. But who? Or was it an accident after all? Either way, the singer wasn't about to be telling anyone, as she was already dead. Thane sung to the rhythm of mourning until the other came over to see what had happened. Pavli acted quickly, and went to distract the children. Thankfully the fallen hadn't had any kids. There were now doubts. How safe would it be to continue? Thane knew they had to continue. There was no turning back now, or the Fused would simply kill them all. Most of the others would not suspect that they had traitors among them, though. Hopefully Moirin would be able to convince them it was worth continuing into Alethela. --- Mauve Crocodile was killed! They were a Dullform Rebel! Village Stash Player List The turn will end in about 47 hours, at 12EDT on 7/24/21.

dune trailer Dune trailer DUNE TRAILER!

I agree with your main point here. I DO think that the Odium quote suggests the Everstorm is what makes it defunct, because the paragraph is all about how the Everstorm has changed things. It could be some final thought that takes the paragraph in a new direction, but I think the cleaner interpretation is that the defunct state of the Oathpact is another thing he's attributing to the Everstorm. I don't think anyone is saying it is gone. Seems like Odium is just saying that it's irrelevant now. It used to be a wall and now it's a wall with a hole punched through it. Dalinar himself calls it "impotent" in RoW 47. It's not gone. It's simply broken to the point of being powerless. I guess others have made this point--started typing before reading all the way through the thread. XD As always, there's the "Ishar is crazy" factor to consider. That said, we got his comment on this during an apparent moment of lucidity, one in which I thin the narrative suggests we can trust what he's saying there. Ah, I see. I think there's an argument that Rlain is just reassuring her and doesn't fully know what he's talking about. (because I'm not sure where Rlain would get that knowledge from in an entirely certain way) And I don't really see why this implies Rlain thinks it was more than one thing? You can read it as "well, it could have happened multiple ways and one of them was bound to happen" but you can just as easily read it as "well, this one particular thing was bound to happen sooner or later--if you didn't trigger it, someone else would have done it instead."

Extremely low-effort meme (OB)

Stormlight

GUYS! I found this AMAZING animation by peu on youtube! He's given me permission to share it! Here it is:

YKYASFWY GET YOUR LEATHERBOUND!!!!!!! YKYASFWY notice that the sun has turned red, so you tell your brother "ash fell from the sky".

“If a made-up mind （成心) counts as a teacher, then who doesn’t have a teacher? Why should it just be the self-chosen experts on the order of things who have them? Stupid people would have them, too. But to have right and wrong before you’ve made up your mind—that’s like leaving for Yue today and getting there yesterday! That’s like saying what isn’t is. What isn’t is? Even the spiritual sage Yu couldn’t make sense of that.” (Ivanhoe & Van Norden, 2001).

It's WOB that we can "blame some of how Nale is acting more on the Highspren" and that his Highspren is "wacky". It is possible that they were originally reasonable and the stress of a nahel bond with Nale corrupted them but I think it's more likely that Nale choose/was chosen by an extremist Highspren who already agreed with his 'letter of the law above all' and pro-proto-radiant murder brand of crazy. Direct Unmade interference is a good point! We know Moelach was in Kharbranth with Battar and Nergaoul was based in Alethkar while Jezerin was in Kholinar for a while. Maybe some of the Unmade were directly haunting the heralds? It's not like they had much else to do due in the millennia after BAM/Singers was bound.

Oop. I forgot about this game having ended by now. Hi. This game was certainly quite the roller coaster, you know? There were a lot more crazy coincidences and dramatically ironic twists than there had any right to be, and it was neck and neck all the way to the finish line. I think this will be a game that is remembered. Also it was pretty cool seeing a number of new people try out the game Anyhow, well done to my Yiga compatriots. I can't really say I never doubted the Yiga would pull through, because it was in some respects a rather challenging game, but that's what makes it exciting! There are probably some things I would do differently as evil!Postman!Drake, but I'd like to think the village paid the price for letting me live in the end, and hey if nothing else it was fun. All's well that ends in Calamity, right? And well played village. I reiterate, it was an uncommonly close game. There were more than a few times where you guys did something that really lit a fire under the Yiga's behinds, if you'll pardon the expression. More times than I particularly feel like listing here, in fact Thank you @Biplet and @StrikerEZ for running another top tier game. Some thoughts on the game setup: It was mostly balanced overall, I think? It wasn't as swingy as I expected. Somehow a lot of the swingy elements kinda balanced each other out, which was sorta cool to see in action. That was particularly well done in this game. Maybe the one thing I would say about any future runs of something similar is that there was maybe a teeny bit too much protective abilities in circulation. Not by a really big margin, considering the Yiga main wincon, but it was actually fairly lucky that relatively few kills were interfered with in this run. okay so Team Yiga won in the end which is pretty great but now please excuse me while I go cry over all of the bets I lost in the dead doc

The special prison refers to the gem they captured her in. (but I guess you're not asking that) As for "why Melishi", my guess would be because he is the only one knowledgeable enough about the magic involved. The Honorblade gives anyone Bondsmith powers, but that doesn't mean they know how to use them. I imagine whatever they did was a little bit complicated (probably not as simple as dealing with the Thrill, if only because BAM is sapient) and I imagine Melishi had the prerequisite experience with his Surges. I definitely don't think you should toss out the idea that BAM was... Connected to all of the spren in some way? The nahel spren at least? Or something like that? The fact that they become deadeyes now isn't coincidence. I expect that the issue here is the "in the same way" bit. They definitely may have been affected. Just "not in the same way"... whatever that means exactly. Now THAT is a spicy quote to keep our eyes on. I definitely think that's key to understanding what happened with BAM. Nice.

Yeah, so... here's my somewhat detailed thoughts... I was definitely thinking the other spren might have been affected in a very similar way. I'm really intrigued by a line from Jasnah and Ivory in Oathbringer chapter 47: I'm trying to puzzle out exactly what Ivory means there. The simple interpretation is that they're just saying "the Recreance was the end of the Radiants" and "Well, for all of them but the Skybreakers." But what the heck does it mean that the Skybreakers and/or their spren "lived in death"? Sounds like deadeyes, but then that applies to ALL of them Actually, highspren were the only ones that didn't have any of their number turned into deadeyes. Furthermore, it's interesting word choice to say that Ivory "agreed" when it sounds like he's disagreeing (if only partially). It had me wondering if the spren who were around during the Recreance were wounded. It made me think that perhaps what they're saying is Jasnah: "they all got turned into deadeyes" followed by Ivory: "Well, all but one order got turned into deadeyes.... but they were still affected (in a way that could be called "living in death") so you're not technically wrong." Does that make sense? Anyways. To step back from this particular quote... When Navani and the Sibling are talking about BAM's imprisonment Navani asks about other spren and the Sibling isn't able to clarify why none of them have mentioned it: And of course you have Kalak's journal saying that BAM needs to be released "for the good of all spren". So it certainly feels like BAM's imprisonment is affecting other spren. It's not entirely clear whether it directly affected ALL spren or if it just has a big enough effect that all spren are affected by the collateral damage? Like, maybe only some spren are affected, but the impact on them is effectively an issue for all spren? I tend to think ALL of them are affected, and they just aren't necessarily aware. Doesn't fit as well with the Jasnah/Ivory quote earlier, but there's one major point to make: the existence of deadeyes. As long as BAM is bound, spren can get turned into deadeyes. It affects all of them and was clearly some consequence of BAM's imprisonment. Why? Hard to say. Why don't the spren seem to know they have been affected? Hard to say. Maybe they've just always lived under these effects (most of them) and just don't know any better? It's weird. But I'm rambling.... I DID suspect that other spren were affected in a way similar to the Sibling. It's rather strange that they weren't. Maybe the honorspren are wrong and Melishi WAS bonded to the Sibling when it happened? Maybe the Sibling is just wrong about the cause, but I doubt that. Maybe the Sibling and BAM had a unique relationship? It's quite a puzzle. I will say I regret not thinking through the question more clearly before sending it to Pagerunner. Because "in the same way" is rather vague. Brandon's answer doesn't say they weren't affected at all. Just that they weren't affected "in the same way". So... what "way" was the Sibling wounded exactly? Is he saying that only the Sibling was wounded such that they can't hear Honor's tone (but all the other spren still can)? Or is the Sibling's ability to hear Honor's tone something unique to the Sibling and thus not an affect they would experience regardless? At least the second half is somewhat clear? Not all spren were affected by BAM--at least not directly. I'm curious for that to be clarified. Which ones were affected and which ones weren't? @Pagerunner and I were talking about that over the weekend. He referenced the quote about no Bondsmith being around and we toyed with the idea that Melishi was actually Ishar. That would explain how he could do magic after unbonding the Sibling. The name certainly fits. Feels really odd to me that the Sibling wouldn't know or mention that they were bonded to a Herald though. That's just... all kinds of weird. I don't like this. But perhaps Melishi was using Ishar's Honorblade. I haven't been able to go research whether this is possible. Szeth is surprised that Ishar has it at the end of RoW, so it hasn't been missing for centuries.... But hey, the Shin were just one nation among the others during the Recreance, so perhaps they simply loaned it out to Melishi and then took it back into their possession?

While for the vast majority of cases O- can donate to anyone they can't always, what you are reffering to is what is called a "Golden Doner" whose blood cells contain no antagins but that's supper rare.

You are conflating two technologies that are related but not precisely the same. Wooden armour against longarms was hopeless even as early as the 18th century. But that is not what we are talking about in a saloon fight. They were using handguns. As far as metal armor is concerned, the idea that it totally vanished many centuries ago is false. Breastplates remained in use on the battlefield into the 19th century. Why did shields vanish? Because armor you can wear is superior in terms of mobility and allows both hands to be used.

Sure, but why? Because 1850 or so it had a decent chance of working. It seems to me that we are approaching old movies with an attitude of hubris. They were made by people whose grandparents still had memories of using weapons powered by black powder. Remember that muzzle energy goes up with the square of velocity.

GUYS. BRANDON HATES ROGUE ONE. ... welp, being a sanderfan was fun while it lasted. brb, gotta go delete my account and burn all his books

I'm fixing this error and the Stormfather talking. These were already fixed: Infinity Blade Chapter icon The timeline thing with Szeth (in the Way of Kings leatherbound) The other things mentioned in this thread are not errors.

Actually it's very avoidable. First because the reproduction issue Returned is likely to be common to all types of CSs and second because having a large number of admirers doesn't mean you have sex with them. Though of course he could have had a child since era 1 and knowing @Kingsdaughter613 it's probably who she was thinking about when asking the question.

Hail, I bring you old memes from LG78 once again! If the Durian had actually stopped a kill: GMs telling me about my Durian: Everytime Kas and Wyrm brawl in thread apparently: Also:

LG79/AN10 Night 1: The Mountain Pass Moirin had sung the Rhythm of the Wind to find out when the storm was coming, and it would be coming tonight. The small group of Singers had been walking for about 5 days now, and they had made a good distance, and reached the foot of the mountains. Thane could see the pass, but it would still be quite a climb. They would hide in a cave once they got to the top. Everyone pitched in to help get the older Singers and the children up the arduous climb. Thane sung to the rhythm of determination as he carried a sleeping kid on his back. The night was falling as they managed to get the last few into the cave. They would finish actually crossing the mountain pass later. It was cold. Cold and rocky. At least down below had been somewhat warm, Thane thought dully as he shivered. Moirin spoke up. "As tonight is the first storm since we left, we will use some of our gems tonight." Now THAT got people's attention. She opened the bag of glittering gems. Painspren, logicspren, passionspren, gravitationspren, and others all trapped in the gems. You could shatter it during the storm, making it so much easier to get the desired form. Everyone wanted to be able to think again, so they all dove after gemstones. There was quite a bit of squabbling over the logicspren and painspren in particular. Thane waited until everyone else was done, and grabbed a gravitationspren gem. He had always preferred workform anyway. Nobody noticed the one Singer who had been trampled in the scramble until they were already dead. --- Abaram could feel the highstorm approaching. Most of the adults were outside, preparing to put on a new form. She guessed she would join them, and pretend to put on a new form. The children cowered in the cave they had found. And damnation, it was COLD! She hummed to the rhythm of Annoyance. --- Vote Tally Coral Swan(4): Albatross, Scorpion, Flamingo, Lion Cream Tuatara(3): Heron, Mouse, Falcon Chartreuse Penguin(2): Hyena, Vulture Plum Rhino(2): Swan, Penguin Melon Dingo(2): Dragonfly, Rhino Coral Swan has been exed! They were a Dullform Rebel! Quick clarification, as it was asked earlier about codes and whatnot. I haven't been around for 2 years, so I'm not sure on the rules of that, but I'm going to say if you're in artform feel free to make something clever up, as long as you don't use any outside sources to help you. Of course, if Araris says otherwise, I'll defer to that, but for now I'll just stick with that decision. The village stash will be available again starting day 2. Player List The turn will end in 23 hours, at 12 EDT on 7/22/21.

Sorry this is way late for the prompt, and that I wasn't present for the first one. I still like this idea I know it's Wednesday now, but how about this, in honour of the hugely environmentally and pandemic-ally irresponsible Olympic Games starting on 23rd July in Tokyo. Write something around a future, futuristic, fantasy, alternative reality, or just generally weird sporting event.

It was going to be another hot one. Jag could feel the morning cool, burning off already at 6:43 a.m. He hoped for another run out today. It was only eighteen hours since his last, but it had been short, no more than 28.5 minutes, and not exceeding 43 miles per hour, which was a bit lame, and runs were few and far between now. But that was the way of things these days. These days since his owner got sick. Used to be they would go out on long drives, really got some speed up. An hour, longer sometimes, and every day, topping a hundred on the motorway sometimes (when safe to do so, of course), or zipping away from the lights, passing buses, trucks and slow coaches. That's what Jag was built to do, and for everyone to have fun doing it. But then his owner had got sick. He saw the man each day, struggling up the driveway on a walker, sometimes on crutches. Managing a minute or two along the road before he hobbled back again with his lady mechanic looking on, anxious that he would fall again. His legs didn't work anymore. Jag could see that plainly, even though he had four tyres. The man's engine was okay. It would be like Jag revving his 3.0 Litre supercharged V6 engine, and his wheels just spinning. He felt sorry for the man, and he related, being trapped in the slow lane, in the driveway, with nowhere to go. But he had hope. The man seemed to be able to walk a bit further, a bit longer each day. Maybe the day would come when Jag and the man would go out again, go out every day and let loose again. But only when safe to do so, of course.

This is excellent. The first I've read of your writing--and a very small sample--but this is clever, and direct, very entertaining, nice character beats, and gentle humour

I was doing some research about different Surges the other day, and when I read about the surge of stone shaping, I started wondering about it. Specifically, when a Willshaper or a Stoneward uses their Stormlight to shape a stone, does it become like clay and they have to mold it? Or (this would be way cooler) would they be able to sort of command it with their mind so they don't have to actually dig tunnels through rock, etc. I may simply have this question because I missed a part in the descriptions in both the book and the info pages. But if the latter is tue for Willshapers and Stonewards, it would be wicked cool!

Not really spoilers. The Hero of Ages: For reference, the guy is actually Cesar Millan, The Dog Whisperer.

Hi! Welcome to my big, fat Gavilar post. Given that we're finally going to get his POV in the SA5 Prologue, and the proliferating theories that Gavilar survived as a CS or will be Odium's champion, I went on a deep dive through the SA books trying to get as full a picture as I could of Gavilar Kholin. The result is the beast below, which is broken into four parts. Part One part goes through some notable points on Gavilar's journey from the beginning of his campaign to conquer Alethkar to the couple of years before his death. Part Two includes some theorizing about when Gavilar received the visions, when he started to change and plan, and who or what might have been influencing him. The theories aren't groundbreaking, but I think they are at least pretty-well supported. Part Three is a sort of oral history running through what various characters have said about who Gavilar was, how he changed, and what he was up to. Part Four wraps things up and poses some continuing questions. Looking forward to hearing others' thoughts. PART ONE: THE JOURNEY So I wanted to just begin with a few notable backstory tidbits, showing the start of Gavilar's journey through to his eventful final years, so that we can establish a sort of baseline to see how he changed later. 1141 - OB 11: In one of our earliest scenes with Gavilar - the first battle at the Rift - we see him already asking some fairly big questions and expressing a desire for a stable, lasting kingdom 1143 - OB 19: During the feast where we first meet Evi, Gavilar continues asking why they are at war and wonders at the reasons why past empires failed; also mentions for the first time the Codes of War and the idea that Alethkar once meant something 1150 - OB 36: Still banging that drum of a unified Alethkar, but questioning the use of force as a means to achieve it: "We can’t have a show of force being our only method of maintaining unity, or Elhokar will spend his entire life putting out fires after I’m gone. We need people to start thinking of Alethkar as a unified kingdom, not separate regions always looking for an advantage against one another.” Later 1150 - OB 49: Gavilar can't let Dalinar have even 10 minutes of happiness over the birth of Adolin before telling him he's sending him to Herdaz and Jah Keved for more fighting; here are a few other notable bits from this chapter, including Gavilar's first mention of the importance of "words": First mention of others calling Gavilar weak: "Tanalan is raising an army and settling into his fortifications. Worse, I think the other highprinces are encouraging him. They want to see how I handle this.” He sneered. “There’s talk I’ve grown soft over the years.” More talk about the greatness of old Alethkar, but now also mentioning the Knights Radiant: “Do you ever wonder about the time when this kingdom was truly great, Dalinar?” Gavilar asked. “When people looked to the Alethi. Then kings sought their advice. When we were … Radiant.” In response to Dalinar's fears about being a bloodthirsty animal, Gavilar says "You are what the Almighty made you" (yikes, this sounds like Odium talking to Moash) Gavilar also suggests that he "might have something that will help" but does not elaborate; Dalinar is skeptical: “Bah. I’ve tried living a quiet life. I can’t live through endless politics, like you can. I need more than just words!” Speaking of "words": “Words are important,’ Gavilar said. “Much more than you give them credit for being.” “Perhaps,” Dalinar said. “But if they were all-powerful, you wouldn’t need my sword, would you?” “Perhaps. I can’t help feeling words would be enough, if only I knew the right ones to say.” 1151-1163: Giant gaping hole in what was going on with Gavilar because our flashback character, Dalinar, is out on campaign this whole time, with only infrequent visits back to Kholinar, none of which we see 1163 - OB 66: Gavilar contacts Dalinar via spanreed, and in between congratulating him on becoming a tactical genius and informing him that he's gotta go back to the Rift, he drops this little tantalizing line: "I have important revelations of my own I would like to share." This brings us up to the events that really set the plot in motion - the hunting expedition during which they encounter the listeners, Gavilar's secretive experimentation and plans, changes in Gavilar in his final months/years, and eventually his assassination. So here's where the theorizing starts and I go into a little greater depth. PART TWO: SOME TAKEAWAYS/THEORIES ABOUT WHEN GAVILAR STARTED MESSING WITH THINGS AND WHO/WHAT WAS INFLUENCING HIM 1. The changes in Gavilar's personality/behavior started before he encountered the listeners Maybe others already knew this, but I was uncertain before doing this deep dive as to when the changes in Gavilar's behavior began. I found two passages that suggest he was starting to act strangely before the hunting expedition where they encountered the listeners. WoK 28: Also, and somewhat more intriguing, OB 66: Looking at these two passages, along with the earlier line from Gavilar about having "important revelations" of his own to share, it seems likely to me that Gavilar probably started receiving the visions from the Stormfather well before he left on the hunting trip. There's also the line from the RoW prologue where Gavilar notes that bringing "them" (likely spheres) back and forth from Braize "was impossible only a few short years ago." This suggests that Gavilar may have already been working on movement between Braize and Roshar as early as 1165. Just how far back Gavilar started seeing the visions and experimenting with Light, I'm not sure. I mean, dude was obsessed with "uniting" all the way back when he and Dalinar got started on conquering Alethkar. He talked about the Alethi Codes of War as early as 1143 and was musing about the importance of "words" as early as 1150. All we know from WoB is that Gavilar was on the Bondsmith path longer than Dalinar (although Gavilar never bonded the SF). 2. Still, Gavilar was intrigued by the listeners and we now have a clearer picture of what it was that so intrigued him Overall, I was a little underwhelmed by the flashbacks in RoW. But several of them stood out as being pretty juicy. One of those is Ch. 48 where we get Eshonai's viewpoint capturing precisely when Gavilar became truly interested in the listeners. Back in WoK, Shallan and Jasnah had noted discrepancies in records of when and why Gavilar had become interested. Here's Jasnah's undertext from Gavilar's account, from WoK 36: That more or less tracks with Eshonai's view. She noted that Gavilar was erratic and that Initially he just wanted to know where he could hunt a greatshell. But the scholars were interested But then, when Eshonai leads the humans from their encampment in the forest out onto the Shattered Plains, a series of things happen that change Gavilar's tune. The first actually occurs a little before the above quote. Axindweth asks Eshonai some questions about how she sees spren and is intrigued to learn that Eshonai appears to see the reality of spren, or closer to it. She then asks about windspren that act like humans, change shapes, and play tricks and Eshonai says she's seen spren like that. Axindweth next asks about spren who speak and call people by name, but Eshonai thinks that's silly. Axindweth was clearly asking about Radiant spren. We don't see it on screen, but this conversation took place before Axindweth fell out of favor with Gavilar so it's a safe bet that she shared what she learned about how the listeners see spren with Gavilar. Then, we get a quick succession of things: Axindweth and Gavilar catch a glimpse of Eshonai's hunting knife "with beautiful metal that had lines in it, and a carved hilt of majestic detail" Eshonai explains that the knife had been handed down for generations; Axindweth suggests to Gavilar that it may date all the way back to the False Desolation; Before they can interrogate Eshonai any further about the knife, a freaking chasmfiend shows up; Eshonai's just like: nbd, it doesn't seem angry The chasmfiend moves along without causing any problems, but all the humans are still freaked out; everyone except Gavilar who seems "unperturbed" Gavilar goes right back to studying and asking about the knife; Eshonai explains that her great-grandparents found them in the ruins; At the mention of ruins Gavilar looked up sharply and asked if she was referring to the ten cities on the edge of the SP that another guide had mentioned Eshonai mentally curses Klade for mentioning the ten cities; she decides not to reveal that the knife came from the ruins at the center of the plains; she says she mention ruins of cities that he ancestors built; Gavilar asks how she knows about events from so long ago; asks whether they have records Eshonai explains that they have songs So, it seems that the things that piqued Gavilar's interest were: ancient weapons, ruins on the Shattered Plains, and songs about the Knight Radiant and other ancient lore. 3. Gavilar was probably already pretty far along with his grand plans by the time he encountered the listeners; also a certain Worldhopper is super suspicious There are a few interesting things to point out here. One is that it doesn't really seem like Gavilar's scholars and scribes had to explain much to him to get him interested in the listeners, as was suggested by the accounts that Jasnah had read and referenced in her undertext. He clearly had some pre-existing knowledge that caused his sudden interest. Another thing I wanted to highlight is Axindweth's mention of the False Desolation. I've been wondering for a while now how Gavilar came to know about the imprisonment of BAM. We saw in the WoR Prologue that he clearly knew about it by the night of his assassination, because he talked about how humans had captured "an ancient, crucial spren." But this information wasn't contained in the visons from the Stormfather, and Gavilar wouldn't have had access to the Urithiru gem archive. So he must have learned about it from somewhere/someone else. Kalak is one possible source of this information. Perhaps he shared information about BAM with Gavilar as part of the experimentation that Gavilar was doing with moving Lights between worlds. We know Kalak hoped this might lead to a way for him to get off Roshar, so he may have been willing to share information with Gavilar. I kinda doubt Nale would have been jazzed about that though. Axindweth is the only other source I can think of, and given this scene, it seems likely that she is in fact the source. She mentions the False Desoalation, an event which even Jasnah refers to as a pseudohistorical legend early on in OB. Gavilar doesn't bat an eye when Axindweth mentions it though; doesn't stop and ask what the False Desolation was. He knows what it was, which means he probably knows how it ended. This all makes it seem increasingly likely that Axindweth was the one guiding Gavilar's experimentation and grand plans. Eshonai thought she might be oncemates with Gavilar because of how often she spoke with him. And Axindweth wasn't outed and shunned by Gavilar until shortly before his assassination. By that point she'd already set things in motion by getting Ulim to Venli. Speaking of getting Ulim to Venli, that seems like another point in favor of Gavilar having already begun experimenting with the movement of Light (and maybe other things) between Braize and Roshar before he set out on the hunting expedition. I'm more or less convinced that the whole reason that Ulim was able to make the jump and end up in the gem on Roshar was because Gavilar's experiments created a connection that allowed him through. Just how Axindweth, a Feruchemist Terriswoman, came to be an agent of Odium is anyone's guess. But it does seem consistent with Odium's long game of co-opting warped human notions of honor, for her to have gotten close to Gavilar and subtly nudged him toward experimentation and plans that seemed consistent with the exhortations from the visons to "unite them" and refound the Knights Radiant, but were actually furthering Odium's agenda. The only hiccup with this line of thinking about Axindweth is something Ulim says to Venli in RoW 86: But, I mean, Gavilar clearly had been working with Axindweth at some point and she seems to be an agent of Odium. It could be that Ulim simply didn't know the full scope of Axindweth's part in Odium's plan. Or maybe he's just flat out lying to Venli here. Wouldn't surprise me. PART THREE: DESCRIPTONS OF GAVILAR AND HOW HE CHANGED TOWARD THE END Consider this a kind of oral history about Gavilar featuring quotes about him that didn't fit in anywhere above. I've grouped these by speaker, and sometimes topic. Mraize (as told to Shallan) King Gavilar’s efforts to rekindle the Desolations are likely the true reason he was assassinated. Though there were many in the palace that night who had reason to see him dead. (OB 40) Re: the Sons of Honor The old king of Alethkar – the Blackthorn’s brother, Gavilar Kholin – was a driving force in their expansion. (OB 40) Gavilar had led them along, used their resources – and their hearts – to further his own goals. (RoW 4) On what Gavilar wanted: “Immortality, in part. He thought he could become like the Heralds. In his quest, he discovered a secret. He had Voidlight before the Everstorm – he carried it from Braize, the place you call Damnation. He was testing the movement of Light between worlds. (RoW 13) Dalinar On deferring to Gavilar: “I didn’t think about it much,” Dalinar said. “When I did … yes, I was frustrated. But it was Gavilar. You know how he was. The force of will, that air of natural entitlement. It always seemed to surprise him when someone denied him or when the world itself didn’t do as he wished. He didn’t force me to defer – it was simply how life was.” (WoK 64) On trying to understand what Gavilar saw in The Way of Kings: Alethkar was a light, once, he thought. That’s what Gavilar’s book claims, that’s what the visions are showing me. Nohadon was king of Alethkar, so long ago. In the time before the Heralds left. Dalinar felt as if he could almost see it. The secret. The thing that had made Gavilar so excited in the months before his death. If Dalinar could just stretch a little farther, he’d make it out. See the pattern in the lives of men. And finally know. (WoK 24) On changes at the end and final words “ ‘Brother, follow the Codes tonight. There is something strange upon the winds.’ That’s what he said to me, the last thing he told me just before we began the treaty-signing celebration.” (WoK 15) “He’s the one who first showed [the Codes] to me. He found them as a relic of old Alethkar, back when we’d first been united. He began following them shortly before he died.” Dalinar grew hesitant. “Those were odd days, son. Jasnah and I weren’t sure what to think of the changes in Gavilar." (WoK 15) “It’s a quote,” Dalinar said. “From an ancient book called The Way of Kings. Gavilar favored readings from the volume near the end of his life – he spoke to me of it often." (WoK 15) He found himself remembering a day when he stood with his brother beside the Impossible Falls of Kholinar. Things are different, now, Dalinar, Gavilar had said. I see now, in ways I never did before. I wish I could show you what I mean. It had been three days before his death. (WoK 26) Warning Eshonai: “His interest could benefit you, but it could have an equal cost. Do not be so quick to share your stormshelter with men you just barely met. Don’t offend, but also don’t be too quick to bend. Any new recruit needs to learn both lessons. In this case, I’d suggest politeness – but care. Do not let him back you into a corner. He will respect you if you stand up for yourselves. And whatever you do, don’t give him any reason to decides he wants what you have.” (RoW 57) Noting Gavilar's frequent absences in later years: Things had been going better lately. Dalinar had started controlling his vices; he’d confined his drinking to monthly trips away from Kholinar, visiting outer cities. He said the trips were to let Elhokar practice ruling without Dalinar looking over his shoulder, as Gavilar had been spending more and more time abroad. (OB 105) Jasnah Gavilar, who would speak with such quiet intensity that you wanted to lean in and listen, to catch every word and implication. He was a handsome man, unlike his brother, with a beard that outlined his strong jaw rather than covering it. He had a personal magnetism and intensity that Jasnah felt no biographer had yet managed to convey. (WoR Prologue) On the Parshendi: “The longer he remained in the Unclaimed Hills, the more fascinated by the Parshendi he became.” (WoK 45) "just before leaving to return to Alethkar, my father suddenly began talking fervently of the need for an agreement.” (WoK 36) Changes toward the end "When he returned, I was encouraged by his interest; we spent many evenings talking about his discoveries. It was one of the few times when I felt I really connected with my father.” (WoK 45) “You are coming to see how my father’s personality changed during those months, and that means you are digging deeply. Believe it or not, few others have caught the discrepancy you just did – though many do note his later changes, once he returned to Kholinar.” (WoK 45) Navani Beyond that, there was an air of … distortion around Gavilar. Nothing supernatural or nonsensical. It was just that … well, you accepted that Gavilar could do whatever he wanted, in defiance of any tradition or logic. For him, it would work out. It always did. (RoW Prologue) She might be the things he said, but he was no more than a backwater thug with too much luck and a knack for fooling good men into following him. (RoW Prologue) All Gavilar cared about was his legacy. He wanted to be known as a great king, a great leader. That drive had always pushed him, but it was growing into something else lately. He kept asking: Would he be remembered as Alethkar’s greatest king? Could he compete with his ancestors, men such as the Sunmaker? (RoW Prologue) Their arguments grew worse and worse. She knew he was not this man, the one he showed her lately. He wasn’t like this when he spoke to Dalinar, or to Sadeas, or even – usually – to Jasnah. (RoW Prologue) What she didn’t feel was grief. His death was meaningful, but it didn’t mean anything to her. Other than perhaps a way for her children to never have to learn what he’d become. (RoW Prologue) During Gavilar’s last days, he had gone strange. Few knew how dark he’d grown, but they had seen the eccentricity. Jasnah had written about that, of course. (OB 104) Gavilar was not the man everyone thought him to be. I was fond of him, but he –” (WoK 61) “Gavilar is dead,” Navani said, resting her head back against his chest. “ I was never unfaithful while he lived, though the Stormfather knows I had ample reason. (WoK 61) Jasnah loved secrets. Navani was more wary of them. Secrets had turned Gavilar into … whatever it was he’d been at the end. (RoW 9) Sometimes she missed him. At least the man he had once been, when they’d all schemed together as youths, planning to conquer the world. That was the face he’d continued to show most everyone else after he’d started to change. (RoW 65) Sadeas “That book ruined Gavilar." (WoK 26) To Dalinar after betraying him: "Gavilar died because of his weakness. I wanted to attack the Parshendi from the start, conquer them. He insisted on a treaty, which led to his death. Now you’re starting to act just like him. Those same ideas, the same ways of speaking. Through you they begin to infect Elhokar. He dresses like you. He talks of the Codes to me, and of how perhaps we should enforce them through all the warcamps. He’s beginning to think of retreating.” (WoK 69) Elhokar (all from his conversation with Dalinar in WoK 18) “You sound like him, you know,” Elhokar said, turning back to look eastward again. “Near the end. When he began to act … erratically.” “this is much like how he was. Talking about an end to war, fascinated by the Lost Radiants, insisting everyone follow the Codes…” “He grew weak at the end,” Elhokar said. “Everyone knows it “My father started refusing duels, near the end." Ialai (to Shallan on what Gavilar was after) “Ah, nebulous ‘power.’ No, it is more specific than that. Most of the Sons of Honor simply wanted their gods back, but Gavilar saw more. He saw entire worlds…” Aesudan (all from her conversation w/Elhokar & Kaladin in OB 84) “Oh Elhokar,” the queen was saying. “You were ever so oblivious. Your father had grand plans, but you … all you ever wanted to do was sit in his shadow. It was for the best that you went off to play war.” “I continued your father’s work! I found the secret, Elhokar. Spren, ancient spren. You can bond with them!” “Have you seen my Radiants?” Aesudan asked. She grinned. “The Queen’s Guard? I’ve done what your father could not. Oh, he found one of the ancient spren, but he could never discover how to bond it. But I, I have solved the riddle.” Nale (RoW 77) “So, Gavilar’s plan is working. The fool. He will destroy us all.” Nale sneered, a sudden and unexpected burst of emotion. “That foolish idiot of a man. He lures us with promises, then breaks them by seeking that which I told him was forbidden! Yes. I heard it tonight. The proof I need. I know. I know….” Finally, Gavilar, in his own words (limited to lines where he at least hints at what he's up to) To Navani in the RoW Prologue “I deal in secrets you could not handle, Navani. If you knew the scope of what I’ve begun…” “Greatness will define me, Navani. No mediocre effort by someone like Dalinar or my son could undermine that – and I personally doubt Elhokar could rise to even mediocre.” "Write whatever you want about me. Say it, shout it, proclaim it. I will outlive your accusations, and my legacy will persist. I have discovered the entrance to the realm of gods and legends, and once I join them, my kingdom will never end. I will never end.” To Eshonai in the WoR Prologue “Our enslaved parshmen were once like you. Then we somehow robbed them of their ability to undergo the transformation. We did it by capturing a spren. An ancient, crucial spren.” He looked at her, green eyes alight. “I’ve seen how that can be reversed. A new storm that will bring the Heralds out of hiding. A new war.” “The old Words must be spoken again.” "My people need to be united, and I need an empire that won’t simply turn to infighting once I am gone.” “I seek for an end to something that we never finished. My people were Radiant once, and your people – the parshmen – were vibrant. Who is served by this drab world where my people fight each other in endless squabbles, without light to guide them, and your people are as good as corpses?” To Taravangian (according to Taravangian) Just as the Diagram instructed, Taravangian was king of Jah Keved. He had taken the first major step toward unifying the world, as Gavilar had insisted would need to happen if they were to survive.That was, at least, what the visions had proclaimed. Visions Gavilar had confided in him six years ago, the night of the Alethi king’s death. Gavilar had seen visions of the Almighty, who was also now dead, and of a coming storm. To Szeth in the WoK Prologue “I … expected you … to come” “You can tell … Thaidakar … that he’s too late…” “Then who …? Restares? Sadeas? I never thought …” “The Parshendi? That makes no sense.” Gavilar coughed, hand quivering, reaching toward his chest and fumbling at a pocket. He pulled out a small crystalline sphere tied to a chain. “You must take this. They must not get it.” He seemed dazed. “Tell … tell my brother … he must find the most important words a man can say…” PART FOUR: WRAPPING THINGS UP; REMAINING QUESTIONS Phew. That ... got away from me. Thanks for sticking around if you're still reading. In the course of doing this deep dive, I think I've convinced myself that Gavilar began receiving the visions from the Stormfather, and probably started experimenting with moving Light, before he went on the expedition where he encountered the Listeners (which was in early-ish 1166). Pulling off the transfer of Voidlight doesn't really seem like the kind of thing that would be easy, so it probably took a while for him to figure it out, which also weighs in favor of it starting earlier rather than later. My best guess is that Gavilar started receiving the visons some time not too long before the spanreed message to Dalinar in OB 66. I'm guessing the visions were the source of the "important revelations" he mentioned. It seems weird that he would receive them that early and be on the Bondsmith path longer than Dalinar, but never form a bond. But maybe something was standing in the way. Maybe something like ... Axindweth? Speaking of Axindweth, I'm also fairly certain that she was a major driving force in Gavilar's planning. Some big questions that remain for me: What the heck did Aesudan mean when she said that Gavilar "found one of the ancient spren?" I know that before RoW came out, lots of people thought that either the sphere he gave Eshonai or the one he gave Szeth housed an Unmade. That clearly wasn't the case. Did he really find an Unmade? If so, which one and where the heck is it now? (best guess is Yelig-nar I suppose) Also, what's up with the blue marbles that replaced Gavilar's eyes before he was Soulcast? I've gone back through all the Prologues, and neither of his eyes were damaged. Why did the Soulcaster refer to his eyes as the only part of him that was true? That scene, coupled with Gavilar's line to Dalinar three days before his death (Things are different, now, Dalinar, Gavilar had said. I see now, in ways I never did before. I wish I could show you what I mean) really has me thinking about the "two blind men" stuff and wondering if Gavilar will end up being one of them. And the biggie: Did he really die? If he did, was he Invested enough that he was able to stick around as a cognitive shadow? If so, which Shard's Investiture was it? And where is he now? Gah! Can't believe we have to wait until 2023 to get some answers.

I know it ain't your birthday today, but I'll be out of town on that day so... *sends kiss* Happy birthday and don't die.

I’m at the beach right now. Yesterday we made a turtle. Today we made an otter. (I know it’s not perfect, but otters aren’t NOT easy to shape out of sand) Otters will rule the world someday!!!!

Words of Radiance

I accept there will be uncles I cannot protect Apologies for the length but Stefon had a lot to say about Rosharan nightlife Transcript for size considerations:

That is intentional. Each book (with a few exceptions) misspells his name in a different way.

Here's some fanart that I did a while back! Sorry about the black border I'm too lazy to get rid of it

No, that was intentional (Finally, someone noticed it!). I used it to try and lighten the tone a bit and let people know that I wasn't trying to attack anyone (I hope it worked?). Also I just think it's funny . I didn't come up with it, but I have no idea where I got it from.