mdross81

Yes, assuming they eventually emerge from their coma. Good point, though I guess it always seemed to me like that order handles things a bit differently.

Seeing a lot of folks mention Radiants reaching a certain Ideal. Do we know whether they can still continue to progress with their bonds? Who’s going to accept the sworn Ideals? (and yes, I know this is just supposed to be minor stuff, just genuinely curious)

Didn’t want to put the name in the title since it’s arguably a mild spoiler. But it seems pretty clear that Elodi, the singer Dalinar sees Jezrien speaking to in a vision — trying to avert conflict between the humans and singers — is none other than our old friend El. I caught a couple of interesting little thematic bits that I thought I’d share. First, in chapter 55 of WaT: I like the underlined passage because we know eventually El will come to be impressed by, and even protective of, humans. So it’s interesting to see what he thought of them early on - likening them to children. The other line from that chapter that jumped out to me was this one: Love the sly reference here to him trying to drown out (silence) Odium’s voice, given that later, as a Fused, he’ll earn the title of Vyre: He Who Quiets. Sadly, Elodi and Jezrien’s friendship was destined for tragedy. From chapter 62: Sad bookends. Jezrien is responsible for El’s first death, and El, in turn, delivers Jezrien’s final death.

This feels like the right thread to drop this. I love these little moments when Brandon is so obviously winking at us but we just don’t know it yet. Kal talking to Skar in chapter 9 of WaT Indeed, Kal will Return.

Glad you made this thread because ironically enough your post on the reviews thread where you mentioned you didn’t like this aspect of WaT was the first thing I after adding a post saying I liked this element. But let me be clear, I agree with you in hoping that Brandon doesn’t go down this road with all (or really any other) Shards. I like the idea of Honor changing precisely because it’s weird and novel to have the bulk of a Shard’s power go without a vessel for so long. And I think it’s possible that beyond the fact that Honor, like all Shards, is flawed because it’s not balanced by the rest of the divine aspects, here Honor has already warped and changed from its original intent. (At least that’s my read on the whole deal with the ancient spren of the Wind being supplanted by the storm). I think as long as Honor is an exception to immutability due to the weird circumstances, I’m on board for a story about the Shard itself growing and changing.

From the context I took it to just be pieces of Honor’s power that split off.

I wonder if maybe it’s connected to that small piece of Honor’s power that split off just before Taravangian took it up in WaT chapter 143: Perhaps one of those pieces made its way to Syl? Guessing another of the pieces went to forming Kal’s new Honorblade.

I don’t recall the book saying that Odium’s pool was in Shinovar, just that after taking up the power Ishar used it to Connect to Shinovar. From chapter 119: So Mishram found the pool under the Shattered Plains and Ishar visited that pool to take some of its power.

As I continue to think about this book, one thing that impresses me is the way Brandon set up the circumstances under which there can be a move away from immutable Shardic intent. One thing that’s been pretty consistent about the Shards is the idea that they are really locked into their intents, which over time increasingly constrains and puts pressure on their Vessels. And we still have that going on, with Honor already starting to limit Taravangian in various ways that clearly annoy him. But now we also have the possibility of Honor’s power itself growing and changing, which is new and exciting. I really hope we get some POV’s of Honor’s power at some point (as opposed to just internal monologue from the vessel telling us what the power wants).

Phew. That was quite the journey. Overall thoughts: it was an acceptable ending to the first arc. Somewhere in there - with all of the thematic elements and character choices about how walking away from power can be the honorable thing to do - is a great book. What we got felt rushed and pulled in too many directions. It just lacked the tightness and focus of the best of Stormlight (WoR, WoK, and OB in that order for me). Good Kal’s arc and ending in general, though I really hoped we’d get one last classic Kal fight scene that gives me chills; really thought we were going to get one with him fueled by the Wind (I guess we may get more later) Adolin (somewhat surprisingly) - didn’t necessarily care for the multiple fake outs that he died, but I often found myself really overcome with emotion during his big moments in a way that I haven’t before. Everything he’s doing with the unoathed is really cool and I can’t wait to see where it goes Taravangian - appropriately chilling Dalinar finding a third option and having the courage to go through with it; though as with many others I’m not sure I fully understand his plan and why it’s so brilliant Rlainarin Sigzil - felt a little siloed off by himself and it was constantly heartbreaking knowing what was to come, but I liked his growth in confidence TANAVAST visions - honestly did not see it coming that the power would reject him Szeth flashbacks were generally good, but I gotta echo other peoples’ gripes about his present day story being essentially that of a Pokémon trainer going from gym to gym Liked what we got but wish it had been more: Ba-Ado-Mishram - especially like the twist that the tones of Roshar had chosen and aligned to her (I had assumed it was the other way around and that BAM had co-opted the tones) El Venli, Leshwi etc… Lift & Vasher Taln Jasnah Not my favorite Gavinor as champion Shallan - I generally love her, but I don’t know. It all just felt like stuff she’s already done. Part of me wonders if I would have liked her arc more if we hadn’t already figured out the Chana Davar stuff Ishar - his whole deal just seemed messy and confusing; can’t root for him but he didn’t feel like as serious a threat here as he did in RoW - we’re just dropping the whole spren horror show experiments thing? Unmade - we basically learned nothing new about them - even Dai-Gonarthis which apparently … did things? … I really wanted more Hate to say it but … Wit - he just farted around cosplaying with Lift for 7 days while the cosmere-threatening cataclysmic event he’s been trying to forestall played out? Like I said, all in all pretty good, but I can’t help feeling like with a little more time and revision it could have been much better.

What do we think would have happened if the anti-light arrow struck one of Shallan’s Stormlight illusions? My guess is it would just pass through unless Shallan intentionally made the illusions tangible (as we’ve now seen she can do). But assuming for the sake of argument that the arrowhead is made of Raysium and that Shallan did make the illusions tangible … kaboom?

Interesting theory @Child of Hodor The scenario you outline reminds me of that one episode of The Good Place where they literally game out the Trolley problem.

I had the same thought, that maybe they’re all spies/agents for some other group. Can’t quite put my finger on why. Maybe just the general sense of looming dread among the various members of Team Dalinar in these chapters.

Fairly minor point, but didn’t it feel like we got a higher-than-average number of newly-named minor characters? Pabolon - Dalinar’s door guard Hendit - of the Cobalt Guard (“A man with discretion to match his general poise.”) who comes to get Jasnah Hakindar - Shallan and Adolin’s room steward (love that Adolin’s room steward is a man who knows his soaps) Kelen - described as the Windrunner squire who had “come to fetch Dalinar” which is weird because I thought that earlier the squire had been called Pabolon? (Edit - nevermind, I misread. Pabolon was a door guard, not the WR squire who came to get Dalinar) Mararin - Gavinor’s nursemaid