Sequence Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Archer said: @Sequence wanna join the sheep Mat's-reads-before-they-derailed club? Pardon? Edit: Sorry Bort Edited February 24, 2022 by Sequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, |TJ| said: Checking the rules, Investigating is not an allomantic action and Copper "preventing Seeking" likely refers to protection from Bronze Scan. @StrikerEZ? This is correct. Copper does not protect from Investigator scans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Araris Valerian said: Okay, time to kill the thread. I got contacted by a player who I’ll refer to as Hal. Hal said that an Investigator (not Drake) scanned them as village N1, and then scanned Bort as elim on N2. I have not been scanned, just to clarify, but to avoid putting Hal in too much danger they reached out to me to do the reveal. The whole thing seems plausible given the N1 roleblock on Bort, but if Bort flips village, Hal said they will reveal themselves and the Investigator. So Szeth Bort. And probably Archer next cycle if this works. It seems my son is Evil. Bort, how could you Clearly I should never have gone out for that pack of cigarettes. Archer, but in my view, if Bort flips Evil, this looks exceptionally damning on Archer, on top of all the issues I've already been pointing out. And to be clear, Archer, no, you don't get to say Drake dodged the question - I'm happy to ask here: everyone, how many of you have asked Drake some question about what's been going on? Has @DrakeMarshall answered you? Yes or no? Because Drake also stated that he sent Archer the requested PM, and Archer asked nothing at all. This is a blatant lie. Edited to add: To sharpen the point, it's extremely problematic if a neutral is more interested in Drake's play than a supposed Villager! Edited February 24, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick. Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Kasimir said: everyone, how many of you have asked Drake some question about what's been going on? Has @DrakeMarshall answered you? Yes or no? Because Drake also stated that he sent Archer the requested PM, and Archer asked nothing at all. I asked the Qs and got the As so yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Spoiler 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, Kasimir said: It seems my son is Evil. Bort, how could you Clearly I should never have gone out for that pack of cigarettes. Archer, but in my view, if Bort flips Evil, this looks exceptionally damning on Archer, on top of all the issues I've already been pointing out. And to be clear, Archer, no, you don't get to say Drake dodged the question - I'm happy to ask here: everyone, how many of you have asked Drake some question about what's been going on? Has @DrakeMarshall answered you? Yes or no? Because Drake also stated that he sent Archer the requested PM, and Archer asked nothing at all. This is a blatant lie. Edited to add: To sharpen the point, it's extremely problematic if a neutral is more interested in Drake's play than a supposed Villager! I’m not exactly sure what you mean here. I asked Drake if he was sitting on any elim scans, but that was both before I’d caught up on the thread and after Illwei had announced what was going on (I was a bit late to the party). Do you mean since then? Personally I’ve been rather distracted due to Friend Hal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Araris Valerian said: I’m not exactly sure what you mean here. I asked Drake if he was sitting on any elim scans, but that was both before I’d caught up on the thread and after Illwei had announced what was going on (I was a bit late to the party). Do you mean since then? Personally I’ve been rather distracted due to Friend Hal. Basically yes - a number of players have apparently been asking Drake questions about his reads and what the gambit was about. I don't really buy Archer's claim that Drake hasn't been forthcoming, since I have PMs with pretty much every player in the game (well, I think? May have forgotten one or two people, RIP, I'm not organised this time - if I've missed you out LMK and I'll send you one) I think I should have a decent sensing of how true that is. I don't see why Drake has a reason to be evasive about it to Archer specifically, but not to everyone else. Stick has already sounded off. I should note a lot of Archer's arguments at this point - even excluding the nonsense on stilts that's his reads list - hinge on Drake being fundamentally dishonest, evasive, and Evil, so I do think that's something that can be settled just by comparing player interactions. RIP Araris, I'm so glad you're living the spokesman life now Did not miss my stint at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Did ask Drake about the Steel read and got a three bullet point answer so that’s a yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 hours ago, Archer said: Drake has been dodging the question in our PM. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Kasimir said: It seems my son is Evil. Bort, how could you Clearly I should never have gone out for that pack of cigarettes. Well clearly! This is what happens when you abandon your children Dark Side, Dad, ever heard of it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Bort said: Well clearly! This is what happens when you abandon your children Dark Side, Dad, ever heard of it? Wilson's parenting method didn't work so hot either in LG12 >:( I felt you just needed time to find your own path in life! You were supposed to bring balance to the Survivor, not leave it in Darkness! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlok Tsubodai Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Well, this gives me a stay on my need to be caught up in time to make an informed vote this cycle. Bort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnatheon Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 No need for me to vote but not gonna pass up the small chance for an item Bort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quivil Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Yayyyyy we have a runaway traiiiiin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted February 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 @Biplet @Szeth_Pancakes @Matrim's Dice @Araris Valerian@Steeldancer @JNV @Archer @Kasimir @|TJ| @DrakeMarshall @Orlok Tsubodai @Dannnex @Karnatheon @Haelbarde @_Stick_ @Sequence @Bort @STINK @Tani @Fifth Scholar There's just about half an hour left to get any actions, item requests, or votes in! Here is the VC: Bort (15): Biplet, Matrim's Dice, Araris Valerian, Steeldancer, JNV, Archer, Kasimir, |TJ|, Drake Marshall, Orlok Tsubodai, Karnatheon, Haelbarde, _Stick_, Bort, Tani Archer (1): Illwei 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted February 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Night Three *insert writeup here* Bort has been Interrogated! They were a Traitor! Bort (15): Biplet, Matrim's Dice, Araris Valerian, Steeldancer, JNV, Archer, Kasimir, |TJ|, Drake Marshall, Orlok Tsubodai, Karnatheon, Haelbarde, _Stick_, Bort, Tani Archer (1): Illwei PMs are still open. This is a reminder that you must include myself, Experience, and Devotary in any PMs you make. And they can only be one-on-one. You can still grab an item from the Stockpile during this Night turn. However, it will not be announced who grabbed what in the next Day turn. Items Grabbed Spoiler Araris Valerian grabbed a Bendalloy Vial! Kasimir grabbed a Shade Gun! |TJ| grabbed a Cadmium Vial! Drake Marshall grabbed a Brass Vial! Haelbarde grabbed an Anti-investiture Knife! _Stick_ grabbed an Iron Vial! Tani grabbed an Attractor Fabrial! Stockpile Spoiler 1 Tin Vial 1 Pewter Vial 1 Brass Vial 1 Bronze Vial 1 Cadmium Vial 1 Chromium Vial 1 Nicrosil Vial 1 Attractor Fabrial Player List Spoiler @Biplet - Edeis, a totally not immortal gossip Ashbringer - Faleast, just a normal dude and definitely not a shapeshifter Confederation Loyalist @Szeth_Pancakes @Matrim's Dice - Dooku, a man whose name is unrelated to anything @Araris Valerian - Arval, no the other one @Steeldancer - Leets, totally not the Flash Amanuensis - Genis, a little kid who’s too smart for his own good and his AI friend, G.E.N.I.U.S. Confederation Loyalist @JNV - Kali, another kid who managed to sneak on board the ship @Archer - Ivory Tarvis, Head Carpenter of The Survivor @Kasimir - Kavar Aral, a seasoned operative who really should have retired ages ago The Unknown Aon - ExMach Inadeus, an extraordinarily lucky guy Confederation Loyalist @|TJ| - Kranvar, a wanted criminal who snuck on board somehow @DrakeMarshall - The meme guy @Orlok Tsubodai - Locke Tekiel, a seasoned veteran Thaidakar the Ghostblood - Levin Venture, totally not a Ghostblood Confederation Loyalist Hazekiller @Illwei - Kraval Aralis, who’s way too excited about potions @Karnatheon @Haelbarde - Haen Plaid, he’s still here, I suppose @_Stick_ - The Stick figure @Sequence - Sfirm Kryt, they’re totally in the mission Bort Traitor @STINK @Tani @Fifth Scholar - Christel Groenloben, a surprisingly cheerful old skaa lady who doesn't act like it This turn will end at 8 pm CST, on Friday, February 25th. Edited February 25, 2022 by Devotary of Spontaneity 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Reminder that you can PM me or ping me about any concerns or problems. Spoiler Day 3 Report: Wow! A lot has happened recently. Should we switch to doing these reports day and night? Two crewmembers attacked at night, Faleast and Genis. Update to previous report, confirmed to be same Faleast. Survived attack by shedding body mass, currently unresponsive, would need Investiture healing to reconstitute. Authorization to keep in storage? The boy Genis is definitely dead. He won’t be finding any murderers anytime soon. The glasses containing his AI companion G.E.N.I.U.S were smashed to bits, but we managed to download the consciousness to an F-copper storage drive. When we tried to access the A.I. we got a warning that something called Security Mode was engaged, and we’re not going to mess with that. We’ll let someone who actually knows something about computers deal with that. Or we’ll wipe it completely if asked. Today is bad news. One defector was arrested, codenamed Bort. Unconfirmed reports that his dealings with us had been uncovered. Will erase our traces more thoroughly in the future in case this is true. Can’t risk Bort revealing us or fellow defectors. Will silence at earliest opportunity. We’ll be sure to let him die with dignity. Whatever else he may have done in his life, and there’s a lot we don’t know, he sided with us when it counted. I will remember him no matter what millennia may come. Rhythm of Mourning -Larkin -Lanceryn Roshar Report #3 There’s a standoff at our training facilities, Confederation sympathizers have seized critical infrastructure after a short but bloody fight. The main bulk of loyal forces are under siege, but they put everything in lockdown so the traitors won’t receive outside help. We’ve also managed to infiltrate their ranks with false traitors, but Phem is sure that some of the besieged are still concealing their Confederation loyalties. All my agents have been summoned back to lift the siege and end the threat permanently. Updates to follow when available. For your situation, more frequent reports shouldn’t be necessary, but I trust your judgment on the matter. Keep Faleast in storage if you can, but make sure you can kill him at will. Such an individual will be a deadly threat if he refuses to see reason. I’ll have a tech expert get back to you on G.E.N.I.U.S, but they’re all busy right now. Make sure there’s no activation until then. What precautions have you taken to ensure your deals with the Survivor’s crew have not been uncovered? Destroy all possible evidence, it doesn’t need to be recorded or sent to me if it will keep them safe, we can’t take the risk they could be found, or worse that they could be traced back to you. Bort’s name though will be included in the litany of fallen Rosharans. His efforts will not be forgotten, nor made in vain. Rhythm of Mourning -Dawnshard 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Ni su'cuyi, gar kyr'adyc, ni partayli, gar darasuum, Aman'ika, Ash'ika, ner vode. Oya Manda! Gar aruetii, al'gar Bort'ad. Aaray. Alright, let's try to work out the delta from here: D3: Spoiler 1 Iron Vial 2 Brass Vials 2 Cadmium Vials 1 Bendalloy Vial 1 Chromium Vial 1 Shade Gun 1 Attractor Fabrial 1 Anti-investiture Knife N3: Spoiler 1 Tin Vial 1 Pewter Vial 1 Brass Vial 1 Bronze Vial 1 Cadmium Vial 1 Chromium Vial 1 Nicrosil Vial 1 Attractor Fabrial Delta: Spoiler -1 Iron (Stick) +1 Tin (Bort) +1 Pewter (Bort) -1 Brass (Drake) +1 Bronze (Bort) -1 Cadmium (TJ) -1 Bendalloy (Araris) -1 Shade Gun (Kas) -1 Attractor Fabrial (Tani) +1 Attractor Fabrial (Bort) -1 Anti-Investiture Knife (Hael) @StrikerEZ - Possible to confirm the second AF is meant to be there? @Tani - Would recommend using the AF now at Night; this way if steel or any hot commodities are added, we can track and gain accountability in the Day. Bort seems to have been carrying a lot of items and this would explain the situation. I'm also forced to point out that this means we have a Hrovell on the loose among the fifteen people who voted for Bort Edited to add: Privately suspect that there's some inaccuracies likely due to in-team passing between Traitors because the current delta attributed to Bort would suggest Bort had made a successful grab every Turn, which is a bit odd. I'll go back and check against the delta listings at some point. Edited February 25, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted February 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kasimir said: @StrikerEZ - Possible to confirm the second AF is meant to be there? Yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quivil Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Kasimir said: @Tani - Would recommend using the AF now at Night; this way if steel or any hot commodities are added, we can track and gain accountability in the Day. Already done. Do you need one still tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Are we certain no one used an AF, or that a Metalurgist didn’t use their action? That’s a lot of items. Anyway, good job guys. Obviously this reflects poorly on Archer and well on the Bort voters pre-reveal but I don’t want tomorrow to be a pile on Archer. I think we should definitely have multiple trains going and I want to do a reread of the Bort interactions and thoughts on him before the reveal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Let's try to account for the Bort-related delta: First, we know this can't be a Metallurgist action. Metallurgists add between 5-8 items at a time. For the same reason, I'd bet this is not an AF action either. Second, we know that one of Bort's inventory goes to those who voted on him. The rest go to the Stockpile. I have reason to believe the missing item is the Hrovell. Third, we know that non-vial items can't be passed. If Archer was at any point recorded as taking an AF, the AF can't go from Archer to Bort. So, let's take a look: Quote +1 Tin (Bort) +1 Pewter (Bort) +1 Bronze (Bort) +1 Attractor Fabrial (Bort) I've deleted everything else. These are the Bort-centric deltas. Immediately, we notice something wrong: Bort was recorded as making a successful copper grab D1. With four items here, this entails that it can't be that Bort grabbed everything here. What we want to work out is if items were passed from teammates, and if so, if there's a way to trace who some likely teammates of Bort might be. Here are Bort's publicly recorded item grabs: Quote D1: Bort grabbed a Copper Vial D2: Nothing. Bort claimed to Stick to have burned the copper vial D2. Bort also claimed to have grabbed a painrial N1 (cf. Illegal Painrial #2), and to have used it N2 to steal the Hrovell. So if we enrich the grabs further: Quote D1: Bort grabbed a Copper Vial N1: Bort grabbed a painrial. D2: Nothing. N2: Nothing or chromium. How do we work out what was taken N2? Well, let's look at JNV's (thanks @JNV!) D3 delta. Quote 1 iron 2 brass 1 cadmium 1 bendalloy -2 copper -1 duralumin -2 chromium 1 shade gun 1 attractor 1 knife This requires us to go into a bit of an aside: I think we can say with reasonably high confidence Aman died with nothing, therefore nothing went to his killer and to the Stockpile. It's a bit more tricky with Ash, because Ash grabbed bendalloy D2 and cadmium D1. On the assumption that Ash hasn't been burning anything (possible, in that he had plans and might not have wanted to act so early), minimally, we should be seeing one of cadmium or one of bendalloy in the delta. Funny enough, we see both. Which is also consistent with Ash potentially succeeding a Night grab. Either way, this I think indicates that Archer has potentially fuzzed the delta here since he specifically claimed that eight items were added. Is this an assumption? Absolutely. But I think it's a reasonable assessment of Ash's character, and a reasonable possibility to examine since D3 has not looked very good on Archer. This would imply Archer covering for the kill items. But an Elim cannot grab an item that wasn't present in the Stockpile N2. This means that if Bort did put in an order, he likely had chromium. (I base this on the lack of copper in the results and the knowledge that a player was hit by chromium though I am still confirming the timeline.) [Edited to add 2: Yes - the player was hit by chromium D3, so it's plausible that Bort grabbed it N2 and used it to leech the player - it's consistent with his known N2 action as well.] This means that we have four items in Bort's inventory, all of which cannot be explained by public or private grabs! One possibility is that Ash managed to grab tin one Night. Another is that we are looking at a situation where Bort may have spawned in with the AF, but his teammates have clearly been passing vials to him - but you can't both pass vials and take from the Stockpile, which means that things look a bit better for players who have had consistent Stockpile grabs. Actually, given that items can't be passed, I'm guessing that Bort spawned in with the AF. I don't see any missing AF in the delta. 30 minutes ago, Tani said: Already done. Do you need one still tho? Thanks, but it's fine Village needs AFs more, so I'm considering them off-limits and won't touch them. Edited to add: FYI, if Archer has indeed been fuzzing the delta, this looks better on @Karnatheon for pointing out that we need to account for Ash's and Aman's inventories! Edited February 25, 2022 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNV Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, Kasimir said: Funny enough, we see both. Which is also consistent with Ash potentially succeeding a Night grab. Either way, this I think indicates that Archer has potentially fuzzed the delta here since he specifically claimed that eight items were added. Is this an assumption? Absolutely. But I think it's a reasonable assessment of Ash's character, and a reasonable possibility to examine since D3 has not looked very good on Archer. This would imply Archer covering for the kill items. This also makes sense because he said earlier that he put in 6 and inconsistency on the same item seems a bit werid honestly and the fact that the discrdency lines up with the difference in the claim seems hmm Borts posts by bit day 1 Won't be around Something about beards Syas hi, voges Tani as retaliation Negotiates vote off More negotiatiosn Unvotes Tani gives a beardnut Night 1 (Nothing here) Day 2 Clais to not do anything N1 Asks about terms More terms Night 2 Suspicious of Drake Kasimir and Araris Friendly confersation More convo No panrial Akssa bout terms More temrs wy people won't want stuff Lots of people no stuff cause RNG Didn't notice new vial Day 3 Lots of alternatives to the kill and also rule questions that they numbered wrong grrr that was confusing also odd tone but then again dead so The question about bendalloy makes me go hmm about elim bendalloy strategies to avoid blocks/redirects on the kill Asks about red wedding More rule questiosn Red wedding ish Sarcasm Fluffy bits Votes on Archer Bort was more valuable probably because of all the items they couldn't pass which explains Archer's lack of vote until the confirm bit Vote rule changes from old times Kasimir is a nice guy Confesses their sins Accepting the inevitable Doomed Child abandonment I think I'm treating Archer like they're already confired evil even though they haven t been which might be a bad thing. I could speculate the Tani bit beinga clever fake but thats probably nt likely. Thinking btter fo Drake nad Araris I was trying to find suspicions taht arent Archer and I came away with more Archer suspicion and that is probably not a good thing but I have two tests tomorrow so Im gonna leave for te night have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, JNV said: Bort was more valuable probably because of all the items they couldn't pass which explains Archer's lack of vote until the confirm bit I agree with this assessment. I'm not too bothered by my hardened suspicions on Archer - at this point, I frankly think that barring any seriously game-changing information, Archer looks pretty Evil to me. I had been bothered by Bort's willingness to self-pres on Archer but not vice versa, and the aggressiveness of Archer's defense of Bort, which gave me D3-D4 AG8 flashbacks to Aman defending Szeth, but I think that's neatly resolved by discovering just how many items Bort had on him. This likely required a substantial action investment on the part of the Elim team so it's no wonder that they weren't keen to lose Bort this soon. This also makes me feel better - and I'm just going to say this publicly because I am apparently the security officer and therefore dgaf - about downgrading E!Invest gambit probabilities. To spell it out, Hal is very likely V on either analysis: E!Hal doesn't need to tie themselves to an E!Invest, since E!Hal already knows alignments, and would prefer to get credit by approaching the thread directly rather than via Araris (of all people ). E!Invest trying a Burnt the Kandra gambit for Village credit has no reason to pick an intermediary - they'd pick a Villager. If Archer flips E, this increases V!Invest credences still further, given the aggressiveness of the Bort defense. But looking at how many items Bort died with, it strikes me as unlikely this was a gambit, given the substantial items and actions investment into Bort that the Elims were not going to recoup. So I'm comfortable with high V!Invest credences at the moment. Edited February 25, 2022 by Kasimir grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 @Kasimir, I was trying to figure out why the elims would pass Bort items, because the role-block on him was revealed during D2, so logically they should have started clearing out items from him because of increased scrutiny, but here we're seeing the exact opposite of this - so I rechecked your item list and you're missing an item :P. Quote -1 Iron (Stick) +1 Tin (Bort) +1 Pewter (Bort) -1 Brass (Drake) +1 Bronze (Bort) -1 Cadmium (TJ) -1 Bendalloy (Araris) -1 Shade Gun (Kas) -1 Attractor Fabrial (Tani) +1 Attractor Fabrial (Bort) -1 Anti-Investiture Knife (Hael) +1 Nicrosil which takes the added number of items up to 5 - Quote +1 Tin +1 Pewter +1 Bronze +1 Attractor Fabrial +1 Nicrosil So, it's more likely to have been from a Metallurgist or a Fabrial instead of Bort because it'd require all these items to be passed to him, and vials like Tin and Bronze are used by the holder, so it doesn't make sense to change hands as they can go for more items instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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