|TJ|

I will concede the point to you, yes. To us, there is no reason why Araris would be more suspicious than you, tbh. Your anti-synergy with Coco does make you a perfect candidate for the convert. Where I don't see Araris missing a kill, I do see a team with you might.

The other option is a Seeker, but I just checked the list of roles and the only Seeker in the game (after I was changed) was CadCom who has flipped village. Another option is some other pseudo-elim slipped up somewhere so I'd ask you guys to check if you slipped up anywhere. ed1t: check the world docs as well

I would like you explore some other possibilities - Did you mention to anyone at all that you were a pseudo-elim, @Stardust?

They can be elim and still be genuinely upset over being screwed over for Investiture :P.

Bahhh, knew it made more sense for it to be Star but I guess I just couldn't connect all the dots. But no kill? Wth?? Is it like 6-2 now?

Eh I'm still debating Lettuce versus Star but ig I don't have time to change everyone's minds before the rollover.

Interestingly, the same strat used by Coco. Could I have the list of the 8 C1 Nalthians. There is probably a way to solve this, especially with Qian's info-dump. The important info here is that Qian is the final-turned Coinshot who killed Star. But if Qian has been camped on Sel, then the only way to shoot (non-Selish) Star would be by spending Investiture. But as Qian has been on Sel since C2, there is a very very small chance that Qian had any investiture at all. Investiture sent towards Sel never reaches the target because of Sel powers. The ONLY way this can happen is if TWO players target Qian and send them Investiture, they would then receive ONE charge. This is a massive waste of action economy and I do not think Qian had a charge to kill a non-Selish Star. But then, Star's randomised kill did not go through, which clearly means that Star was NOT on Sel and Qian was most definitely on Sel. The question is, how did Qian kill Star? Where was Qian staying in C1?

Could you tell us your Shardworld locations? And if someone could corroborate Star's location in the final pseudo-cycle, it would be very helpful.

I shall remind you that it wasn't me who revealed it to the thread that I was pseudo-IM >> ahem ___ ahem :P. (but also you could have converted me smh, you didn't have to kill me .-. )

He got killed in C1 on pseudo-cycle which was the very first cycle, and he was active in the elim doc as well. He definitely would have taken a shot if we wanted to imo. And I would give the least weightage to ths\is reasoning as compared to my other reasons

Lettuce, yeah. I'm on phone but I remember revealing it to Coco pretty early that Lettuce was p-evil and I find it very surprising that Lettuce wasn't attacked in the cycle Coco became a Coinshot.

Rehashing my original argument of: Giving the elims a starting Coinshot + giving elims a pseudoGM gives them the chances to be too OP and have 2 Coinshot by C2. And xino would have used his shot if he's evil.

I will say this and remind everyone of how pseudo-elim kill worked - We need to put down a name in a tabular column in the doc, and only the most voted player got killed. Then one of us actually had to submit the kill action for it to be assigned to us. So it's not as easy as self-targeting. I was kinda dictating the kills until the cycle I got killed. And then if Lettuce is evil, they didn't really have to self-target anyway as they were beoing voted out.

[Star, Hopper, CadCom, Divergent, Mippo, Araris] is the PoE elims would have had if we assume e!Qian. Hmm, I have no idea how they'd go about narrowing that PoE to Star. I guess there had to be a mole then.

ed1t: huh I wonder if it was just a 3-person team and either they used some PoE to narrow their options to arrive at Star being the pseudo-elim

The Coinshot who killed Star could only have been Changed in M-cycle 4 while also being alive in P-cycle 5. The only players who fall under these criteria are Qian, Divergent and Mippo. It's truly between Qian and Divergent - I find Qian's survival from Star's shot suspicious and feel like they've hidden on Sel the whole game. They also voted for Hoid over Coco last cycle early on when it wasn't clear who unanimous the coco vote would be.

Hmmm? Not sure if you understand my statement or I understand yours. I meant that giving them a pseudoGM in Verdance and ALSO giving them Xino who started the pseudo-game as Coinshot is a tad too OP for them. If they changed one of theirs to Coinshot in the very first cycle, they would have 2 Coinshots in the very 2nd cycle which is quite strong. ed1t: ahhh nvm you were making sure it couldn't be coco who shot star, got it

No kill means that there was a conversion this cycle. Thought there was a chance they might delay it but it appears not. I think we should go after the potential Coinshot today and I think that is Qianwellian ed1t: I will note that giving the elims a pseudoGM AND a starting Coinshot in Xino is also a tad too OP, I might be leaning village by that. And by the fact that they did not use their kill.

Yeah, I'm dead in the game right? So voting in orange was a way to differentiate that and help in not confusing you GMs. ed1t: sorry, didn't see the subsequent follow-up from wahr and also that the cycle is over >>

Qian was in Sel back in Pseudo-cycle 2. If Star is not lying and the kill was randomised to Qian, and they aren't dead, it means that they have been camping on Sel since C2 (or at least reached back Sel). I think hiding from kills like this does indicate elim behaviour.

@Araris Valerian, I think the biggest point for v!Hoid Slayer was making me Coinshot when I have been staunchly FOR killing p-villagers and correctly believed that elims would have bet on a p-village victory. I was never allowing our kill to hit a p-elim, so to give me Coinshot essentially confirms 2 p-village deaths per cycle. Also, Verdance is a meta-elim pseudoGM, I really don't think there would be 2 of them in the game.

Just checked the elim doc for the first time after I died. Star said they have something else to do and asked if Lettuce could submit the kill. And I've just realised, I don't think Lettuce said anything in the doc after C1. Like, C1 is the last time they spoke in the doc.

edit: but yes, leaning Qian as the Coinshot over Diver over Mippo [Verdant, Coco, Qian/Dive, Mole] team Ehhh, it would be very obvious and suspicious, and the reasoning you gave (if they said they were convinced by your reasoning) would be v v tame They had an evil Coinshot who was hidden. Why wouldn't they use that over revealing their hand by killing themselves?

The mole and the Coinshot can definitely be 2 separate people.

Wait, why can we clear Lettuce?