|TJ|

Doc hehe feels like a speedrun :P.

Stick Doc

Keaton is not important at all lmao. It's just a fun little side-quest to figure out who had it :P. Ed1t: VC was 7-4 before any vote manip. Even if the vote shift was the other way around it would been 6-5 and Stick would have still died. There's nothing important here.

I suppose Wahr could have enough money to buy Bremen in D1C and Keaton in N1C.

I think this is the correct one. Sorry Coco, I think you're village now and I was terribly tunneled Everyone, please decide if we're doing Stick or Doc first smh >>

It was a blackout which accidentally ended up as flipless arson lmaoooo xD Hey, you were evil in that game too, Miss Annihilation

I am convinced. This is Aman's revenge game against me for MR56 >> I was a fool for signing up, a fool I say! (jk it's been so much fun :P)

Hi, fellow vanilla :P.

Agree with everything @DrakeMarshall is saying. I just don't have the energy to convince someone else xD Drake is fresh off a break and eager to go, I just have this one thing to add on - e!Stick implies e!Doc -> Stick and Coco are not e/e, which means we won the last Loop by exe-ing e!Twinstorm. e!TwinStorm implies v!Hael because exactly 1 of Hael/TwinStorm is evil. Doc is the only possible 4th teammate.

HUH. The VC seems to be the result of a Keaton Mask. Aman, confirmation that this VC is correct, please? Because if you go back and check, Stick never votes on herself.

I think they were just trying to win the game in Loop 3 itself. There were no contingencies. E!Hael cannot sacrifice e!Stick deliberately as the movement came from Drake. And I don't think Coco/Stick works at all.

Uhhhh she who? As far as I can see, both Stick and Doc are voting Hael.

Doc hoped we'd vote out Hael and they'd win the Loop and the game.

I'll catch up later but Burnt and yeah e!Stick -> v!Coco so it's e!Doc Burnt/Twin/Stick/Doc

Cosmetica found the concept of earning rupees by talking to be ridiculous. He was not a quiet person, not at all. If you had seen him in argument when pursuing Minions of Mischief, you would have thought he does not shut up. But in truth, outside all that, you would find that he was a man of very few words. There was nothing interesting about small talk to him. It had suited him just fine, as he did not really care about his wealth till now. He'd get by only with his wit. His wit hadn't served him well recently. What could you do when you could not trust your own mind? Perhaps it was time to depend on material items. And for that, he needed rupees. So there he was, amongst people, preparing himself for... small talk...

Stick Haelbarde

I don't know man, I honestly don't know anymore. I don't feel confident in myself after I talked you guys out of exeing Burnt. I don't want to think anymore But... okay. I want to try, for the possibility of v!Hael's sake. TUO - Scanned TJ Araris - ? Wahr - Blocked Hael TJ - Nothing (TUO's scan) Stick - ? Hael - Nothing (Wahr's block) Wonko - ? Doc - ? Burnt - Nothing (Stone Mask) Mistfallen - ? Divergent - ? Archer - ? We get a pool of [Araris, Stick, Wonko, Doc, Mistfallen, Divergent, Archer] for the players who could have submitted an elim kill. Removing my village reads of Araris, Wonko, Mistfallen, Divergent -> [Stick/Archer, Doc] Note that we are disregarding the case where Drake was just shot himself. Sigh. Case 1: v!Drake is saying the truth. Stick is evil and attacked Drake. Case 1a. e!Hael HAS to be relay the information which leads to v!Doc. Hael/Stick/Burnt/+1 I do not think this is likely because Hael's reaction here clearly does not say e/e ; if Hael/Stick e/e is doesn't really matter who dies so there's no reason for Hael to feel so indignant here. Case 1b. v!Hael is giving out info by v!Drake. e!Doc is invalidating what v!Hael is saying. Burnt/Doc/Stick/+1 is the answer here. Case 2: v!Drake was killed but e!Hael is misrepresenting it. If so, why is the dead doc giving credible information that can be verified by confirmed villagers? This shows this case is highly improbable which means Hael is not misrepresenting Drake's words. Case 3: e!Drake killed himself, and is using e!Hael to frame v!Stick I don't know guys, I think I want to go back on my previous words. I was v!reading Drake quite strongly before he died. Is it really possible to kill himself? It comes down to this. Do you believe case 1(b) or do you believe case (3)? Because if you do not believe Drake killed himself and if you are okay to v!read all of Araris, Wonko, Mistfallen, Divergent ; THEN the D2C killer HAS to be in [Stick/Archer, Doc].

Who did you block, @Wahrheitswächter?

I agree with this fully. If we have (or would) only exe elim, it is a good way of confuddling the village by killing one of the elims for us to wrongly assume we have killed at least 2 elims and repeat the exe cycle to lose in L4. Hey! You're an elim! You can talk in the elim doc! I'm village and I do not have fun thread codes >> Also, you do not need any more rupees smh * The question is, why would Doc lie? Every action and his behaviour from the start of the Loop has been very consistent with buying a 100 rupee Mask. If he is evil, he just Resurrects an elim N3 without revealing anything. We were exeing Hael anyway. Realistically, no one was exeing Doc even though Wonko had a vote on him. It was always going to be Stick or Hael. Now, we can make sure there's contingency if Doc is lying with @Wahrheitswächter Bremen-blocking Doc to prevent a possible Resurrection. Doc should not have any problem with it because there's only 1 Alignment Scan per game. So, I think this is one scan we do believe, imo. We figure out whatever is wrong with the whole Hael/Drake/Stick thing later. It is possible Hael/Drake/Coco/Burnt e/e. I do remember thinking Drake kill was weird in Loop 2. @Amanuensis, I don't think I remember reading about action economy anywhere. Could an elim use a Mask action and submit the elim kill in the same Night?

I will say this, though. This matches up with Doc's behaviour in D1C and responses in N1C. I thought it was unconscionable that a villager does not go for Stone Mask in D1C when having the funds for it. This makes sense if he was saving up for Truth. Doc's enthusiasm about proving that they do not have Stone Mask also makes sense now. Let's say, for example, Jo is a Postman -> If Jo sends a PM to Aman, it is NOT +1 because the sender is a Postman. If Aman sends a PM to Jo, it is NOT +1 because the recipient is a Postman. Jo receives a rupees for ever unique recipient for a message NOT sent by him; Jo himself does not count as a recipient. If Jo received 12 rupees is a cycle, it is because: [Number of unique recipients receiving a message where recipient != Jo AND sender != Jo during the DAY] + [Number of unique recipients receiving a message where recipient != Jo AND sender != Jo during the NIGHT] = 12 Correct?

not another storming claim. Flipping hell guys... So buy Mask of Truth N1C Equip it D2C Scan Hael N2C? Why did you decide on Hael? @Doc12

True, maybe. I think, at the end, the questions is "Can we explain a Burnt/Stick/Doc (or Coco)/TwinStorm team?", and if we're finding it difficult to do so, we have our answer which leads to e!Hael.

Uhhh no? We're talking about e!Stick world, so you'd be village here. Is there? It's possible you're looking only from your POV. I don't think anyone else, other than you (and Archer), seriously suspects me of being evil. Why not Archer? Well, he is still in contention to be the 4th elim teammate [with Coco/Burnt/Hael] as we're considering v!Stick, so he could still be evil. Stick could also be the Path of Least Resistance as they could have chosen someone who was not going to be around much to defend themselves and/or someone who people wouldn't have a strong opinion on defending (they thought slightly wrong). I would like to believe that there would be a bit stronger defense from others if I was blamed. True, but (a) it always adds more authenticity and veracity to the claim when most of the claim is truthful and only the important part is the lie [I do believe Hael genuinely has Captain's Mask, I think] (b) they could have thought that v!Hael stocks rose after we decided only 1 evil in [TwinStorm/Hael] and decided to exe the TwinStorm (c) We are making assumptions about the 4th teammate being more villager than Hael.

Yes, but there is always a chance of the NK being blocked and them losing the Loop. Then you'd actually be village read for NOT Blasting (relatively smaller pool of deaths for us to search for an elim in). And we'd have 1 elim from the Block's target, and 1 more from the deaths in the Loop. No, sorry. D3B bus is not a theory I buy. And add my last post for why a Burnt/Stick/TwinStorm/Doc team doesn't work. I also just thought of this. I think I would expect Doc to submit kills over Stick if the above were the case (wrt to Stick's availability)

Hmmm, I'm pretty set on e!Coco, but let's consider a world of v!Coco and e!Stick. So it's... Burnt/Stick/TwinStorm/+1 and the +1 HAS to be among in living players at the beginning of Loop 3 -> [Coco, Doc, Hael, Mistfallen] Strikethroughs -> We are considering a v!Coco world. Mistfallen is village from Burnt's fake claim. Hael is village in this world, accurately relaying information about e!Stick, which means Doc HAS to be the 4th elim in this case. Doc is NOT paired with Burnt throughout the whole game, so Doc/Burnt e/e ALSO does not make sense. As this team and scenario does not make sense, we are back to v!Doc -> e!Coco -> v!Stick -> e!Hael