|TJ|

Apologies, was traveling to my hometown and attended a program today. Should be free from now. If there are two elims remaining and one of them is outside the PoE, it's likely that the player outside the PoE submitted the kill. Confidence in killing Kas over Devotary might hint towards elims outside the PoE. Hypothesizing a JNV-Alpha team if that's the case. Kinda want to vote Alpha over JNV, but I concede no one would be willing to go outside mech pool this cycle. @DeTess, any reason why you explained your survival by stating "protective item" instead of just naming the item? And could you reveal what that item was? Tiny bit paranoid that you are the WGG'd e!SE.

If Ash is village, and you believe Alpha is village, then there was no attempt made to protect Archer in D1? I find that highly unlikely... Leaning Alpha more than Ash at this point, but ugh, the counter to the point that elims would not give a Pallid Mask to a confirmed village White Fox is that it's important that they first volunteered to give it to Kas, but Kas requested it to be passed to Devo instead, and they cannot reject the request without seeming suspicious. I think plan could have been to give it to Kas hoping he'd then protect Devo and going for someone else entirely (like deTess). Edit: TLFae @Elandera

Because of I voted Archer D1 and D3? And D3 vote was prior to TKN opposing Archer's actions btw. smh -.-

I didn't feel that actually, perhaps you're misinterpreting it. Archer said Mat was annoyed. I never felt Mat was annoyed, and Mat correctly asked repeatedly where did it show that he was annoyed to Archer. My read of the post was mainly because of the "I understand *insert emoji*" part, that smiley which just exuded passive-aggressiveness :P. I have no clue, it's gut for a reason :P. But I think again, it's a meta thing. Subconsciously, I think I thought Archer hypothesising elim team size is Archer in his elim meta. Also, important to note that my vote on Archer was the second vote, you were still voting on him at the time. If you notice the post, you can see that I got what you meant in the same post as I was playing catch-up. If I was hyper-aware, I would have probably just deleted the part where I assumed you had an evil read of me. That read of Aman was at your request. I don't go to solve Aman in D1, I just cannot. >> I thought deTess' post did not actually say much at all, and you felt it was performative as well by your own admission. With Sart going for deTess for the same reasoning, notice I could have switched off Archer onto deTess. It was a small thing to look out for, I just genuinely needed more time to assess deTess as the half game I played with her, she was already sorta conf. village when I subbed in. One of the things that caught my eye during re-read because Alpha was grouped with Archer in multiple Aman posts but always behind a higher priority group. I have no idea what this whole thing means here :P. I just think of chemistry where I see 'valence'. :P. Btw, I was right about Mat's coolness smh, he knew he'd survive the execution >> Again repeating my earlier point. Way different reads of that post. He generates annoyance from that post, I saw p-aggresiveness. And yeah, confused between Fae (proof that you're Thief is not the proof that you're village), Ash and Alpha. But I'm actually leaning towards the latter two because of D1 voting.

Trying not to brute-solve here, so not considering any action-economy stuff - Kas - Attacked N1 and N2 - Forest Green Devotary - Blocked Aman N1 - Forest Green deTess - Archer vote D1, Attacked N3 - Forest Green Mat - Archer vote D1, but he flip-flopped around him, Mat voted on Archer, Aman voted on Mat, Paranoid e!SE - Grass Green TKN - Flip-flop Archer vote D1 - Grass Green Illwei - NULL JNV - NULL Steelin - NULL Alv - Testing how VitC appears for future nefarious use? - Autumn Leaves Orange Araris - Just paranoid about Archer bus - Autumn Leaves Orange Ash - D1 protection vote - Jessica Chastain's Hair Orange Alpha - D1 protection vote, Bunch of mentions and interactions with Aman/Archer, Openness about the willingness to pass the Mask reads as village appeasement, nonchalance about the possibility of elims attempting to stop the pass as well as absence of playing IKYK shows elim TMI - Blood Red Fae - Suspicious self-vote, ending the sentence with "elims show yourselves" shows awareness that we need to catch elims which contradicts with the self-vote proving that the self-vote could be fake - Blood Red

I actually got the Spellbook which was in Archer's possession, so it was me redirecting Alv to target himself.

Elandera did not say it was used up, she said I no longer had the Mask, the way it was worded made me think of Theft :P. It's... unique to witness the paranoia from Ash, haven't seen this before. In Kas' defence, he was the N1 elim kill. And the lack of elim kill on N2 and no counter claim to someone else surviving means likely hit Kas again. Slowly starting my re-read - Notice how Alpha did not ask explanation or any sort of justification from Aman, but does so with Kas when they both voted on Alpha together.

Feeling more weirdly confident about my 'Elandera trolling everyone by giving A-elim-team' theory. White Fox Devo roleblocked me, meaning if I had attacked Kas, he wouldn't know he was attacked.

It's just three votes though? And is Araris the person you claimed to, to bait an attack?

Archer Sorry, the optimum village mindset here should be to keep Devo and Kas alive as long as possible, which was my thinking when I sent in the order to give Pallid Mask to Kas (the funny part is I was debating between giving it to Kas or Devo, so if I had gone for the latter, Devo would have removed an item that was coming to her). I don't know why any villager would protect any one other than Kas/Devo. And I read the Alvron's post quoted by deTess but I don't think I understand what was the suspicious thing that deTess caught...

No, I don't have any protection from insanity. So I was targeted in non-lethal ways, I think White Fox block and Spellbook are the only options.

>> yes my bad Elandera just clarified that. Someone targeted me and it got used up before I could pass it.

Okay, I'm so annoyed. I started the game with a Pallid Mask. And I was passing it to Kas last night but it failed because someone stole it off me. If we get to know that the Mask ends up in the hands on an elim at a later stage of the game, we know there is an evil Thief in the game.

Hmm, I missed that Fae's Thief claim initially. And I think that does it for me, that's enough for me to read her as village for now.

This is hilarious during re-reading because while catching up I don't actually feel the time lapse and whereas I was village-reading her, your reads were jumping to and fro from post to post and I'm like "huh, what am I missing" xD Okay I think I missed this part. What does the "making the same claim as teammate" part refer to?

I said I would not hesitate to C1 you when I was an elim to hopefully come off as village, so there's no evidence I would actually C1 you :P. But no one actually strongly argues against a protect or pursuing it aggressively. They just said it's their guess. I think one of the elim techniques is to act like they're guessing what happened when they know what happened to come off as "accurate villager" and doing so in a non-TMI way. Not sure if I recall I've done this as an elim, but I've definitely remember doing this as a villager in that anonymous Hemalurgist game. LG..70 something, though the intention here was to let the village know what actually happened by faking a guess without revealing that I was a Hemalurgist. I think you're talking like you're imagining they're your potential teammate. If I was a teammate of a new player who did all this and got village-read for it, I'd laughing and encouraging them to keep it up xD So it all comes down to elim team composition. If they're getting village read and aren't endangering their teammates, teammates could be like "what's the harm?". Just at this point where TKN's frustrations at everyone on focusing on Mat D1, the annoyance feels genuine. Ah no, the asterisk is for the whole post. As in "reads of everyone may change upon Aman's ISO re-read". I've been village reading Devo since that post I quoted in D1. Edit - Ahhh got it. Yeah it slipped my mind too that protects are retaliatory. And if your point is that it probably slipped Mat's mind too and that an elim would be more mindful of the ret. kill which points to v!Mat, then we're in agreement, yeah.

Combination of a chain of thought along with the fact that I don't have many suspects. I suspect Archer, Ash voted to protect him. Plus Ash feels like he's in the Dingo meta. And combine that with lack of other suspects - Null Minus on Araris, Sart. Null/ IDK on Alvron, Alpha, JNV, Fae (I hear your argument about teammates allowing/not allowing but tbh, most of the time, new elim players don't send posts to be proof-read and coaching is rare as well). Null Plus on Mat, TKN, Steel (Sorry, I cannot confidentally read low-activity players' meta like you do). Mild/Moderate plus on Illwei, deTess. Strong plus - Kas, Devotary. * * - conditioned to change upon re-read of Aman's ISO. Why is it odd though? You went insane and there was no kill, so I think the most normal reaction would be to assume you had been hit. No kill + most common insanity mech being taking a hit = Kas has been hit.

Ah you asked about it, I forgot. That was just mis-worded from me as a result of sleepy-typing. I meant "good read" as in "village points" for players who also reached independent conclusion that Ash and Archer could have been teamed. In terms of reads Kas > Illwei >> Mat. Still unsure about Mat, but would lean mild village at this point. Edit in response to Kas' edit : Still one of my top suspects. I'd be voting for him if there are no takers for Archer. Still believe they could be teamed.

Hmm, a bit more suspicious of Sart and how he was bang-on accurate about the kill being blocked by White Fox. And also, who was it who said the elim kill submission depends on the role and a lot other factors? I think it was Araris, not sure if I read it more suspicious or less, seeing as that was accurate as well.

From EoD1 - Ash/Mat unlikely to be E/E. Ash/Archer likely to be e/e. From N1 - Why did the Wrath of Shades counter increase? It only increase when blood is drawn and does not include execution? D2 - Kas went insane - a. ForbiddenIdolPossessing!Kas b. SpellbookUsing!Kas c. Unlucky!Horrified!Kas d. Survivor!Kas At this point it's more or less a theoretical strategy. I don't think it's ever been pulled off since I began playing. I like that Mat, Kas and Illwei also concur on Ash/Archer team. Good reads on them (Hi Wei!). Sigh, I'm taking like 20 minutes to go through a page and it's 3am and I want to sleep >> Imprtant, bringing back to D1 for a second, I don't agree with someone (Kas?) who said Fae is likely to be village for self voting. I think the most fundamental point of mafia is to vote out evil players and even the most beginner of beginners would have a clue that we vote players we suspect. I think it was posturing. At the part where Devo claims White Fox, Amanuensis. Since protect blocks also cause Insanity, it is more likely Devo blocked Aman's kill on Kas and the protect was not involved in... any sort of protection :P. Everyone bringing up LG83 as proof of no kill, guys remember the kills stacked in that game so we had incentive for not killing D1. The stacked kills could then be doubled with Duralumin. We only did it that game because of the game mechanics. I think Aman/Ash/Archer team still works. I wonder if Elandera is trolling is by teaming up them with Araris for an all A team. Also perhaps there is a misconception that I suspected deTess more than I did. The point I mentioned was just a tiny suspicion which I stated in the post itself. It probably felt I suspect her more because of the spotlight on it as a result of the ensuing conversation about the issue with Kas and his repeated asks about the difference between her and Aman. And I'm off to bed, bye.

Sorry, just been only glancing through things as I'm yet to catch up with EoD1. I haven't been informed of any sort of hit on me. Weekends should be more free and expect me to catch up before the end of the cycle.

I remember I was evil with a very dgaf e!Steel though I can't, for the life in me, remember anything else about the game. Including the game number or my other teammate. Mat was the GM I think and I had vote manip and did not use it when votes were close to fake the village. That's all I remember from the game. Also this is purely gut, but I think Mat's posts (particularly P4, P5) have been exuding abnormal coolness. I avoided using 'fake calmness' here because I don't know if it's village Mat just calming himself down or evil Mat forcing the coolness.

I'll clarify. Aman's wordings felt like he didn't really care about who benefitted more from VitC, and well it felt like he didn't care about the entire VitC discussion. Just said "whoever uses it better, it's more helpful to them" and wanted to move on from it. There was some sort of village nonchalance to it. Whereas deTess took a roundabout route to basically conclude "it's helpful to both", looked like wanting to appear helpful. And I see some long posts are there for me to catch up.

Nah, it's my theory that I (or anyone else tbh) carry over residual suspicion from recently concluded good evil games. Villagers subconsciously extra wary of players who had a good evil game recently so I assumed that was the case here and thought it was an evil read. Aman's wordings comes off as general speak whereas deTess goes into hypotheticals. Aman's post imo doesn't feel like fence-sitting, it's just matter-of-fact "whoever uses the mechanism better benefits from it the most". deTess explores situations - "Helps evil players, but if villagers do this, it's harmful to evil players" and concludes that it helps both which is an obvious point. "Helps whoever uses it better" VERSUS "Helps both" is the distinction. Village points for this, because they're right. Unless someone is doing some reverse-pocketing and/or it's endgame stage, the function of VitC can be replicated by a final minute vote-shift. And there's no reason why a villager should prefer VitC to it, other than the circumstances I have mentioned above.

This strong wording, the pre-emptive suspicion of any particular action, feels e!Archer indicative. I think I recall him doing something similar in a game in which he was evil. Like the edit added any clarity xD I'm so confused, because I just read this as "I was wrestling with a weak evil lean of you so I cannot extend you any evil credit for not wanting to lean into the evil lean" which is ????? xD but I'm just assuming this was you just going back and forth "I need to be wary of TJ" "But TJ bro, TJ good" "But TJ bro != TJ good" Oh huh, that makes a lot more sense xD I was just thinking how that cute fluffy on-fours Jigglypuff translated to an evil read, my bad xD Also, the stronger good guy looks like Raichu! :P. [Looks like I'll be making Pokemon references and comparisons all game now] Feel tiiiiiny bit off about this post. Two legs in two different boats kinda feel. We've only played like half game together, so I could be reading into this wrong and it's just the way they Rule Analyse things. Also villagers tend to underestimate village coordination whereas elims always fear of it so they overestimate it. This awareness of village coordination might be an indication of evil. One to keep an eye out for.