|TJ|

I have not consumed any form of Les Miserables through any medium, sorry :P.

Sigh, you are gonna make me sign up as JJ, aren't you? xD I guess that works... unless you have directed a Star Wars trilogy and split the entire fan base, but that's not me :P. (yes sign me up as JJ)

I think the simplest solution to the problem is to just drop a PM to players with aversion to evil play before the game begins. "Are you okay to play evil in this game?" And we're all honest people here, everyone here is with integrity so it's obvious that the reply will be honest and not "nope" every single time. And the player could give a reasoning to the GM, which could explain to satisfactory conclusion why it's not a good idea for the said player to be evil in that particular game. IIRC, El did this to Kas for her BT game.

I was kinda hoping Aman wasn't an actual Thug, sigh. But then I don't get it, why try so hard last cycle? xD Anyways, gg everyone. I hate being a villager in the endgame >>

I actually considered this post waay earlier in the cycle as you outing yourself and gg-ing me because I had a decent village game :P. Well, this game ends all too similar to MR57 too >>

It's 2:30 am here smh. I really want to check out of this game so badly, but I keep getting pulled back in. Recently I was thinking that you were an Unsnapped originally and got Spiked with Tin.

If e!me knew Fifth had Zinc, I would have used the situation to protect Biplet from elimination. And I think for any elim, Fifth is the obvious kill. More so in your case because you seem to be very much aware of "elims win on parity if village has no vote manip" case and it would make sense for you to remove the possibility of village vote manip and win on parity if you're actually a Thug.

Sigh, see this is what I meant by getting flashbacks to MR57. You're doing the SAME thing you did with me and Mat in that game when you and Orlok we're evil together. I will consider an e!Araris world till the end though. And that argument you made about siding with him doesn't hold true. You can go back to the last cycle and check the post where he said he PMed and noticed I was checking his PMs 3 hours earlier. I had voted on Biplet quite earlier before he PMed me claiming Zinc. Plus bro, I was very strongly on you to vote on Bip. In the event that you're village, I received a PM from Biplet in the last minutes of the cycle, asking me to switch to Araris. Fortunately for me, I was soundly asleep and checked the message only after rollover as I would have gone mad with paranoia. Unfortunately for me, I'm still going mad with paranoia not knowing if it was a distancing ploy from Biplet.

@Araris Valerian @Amanuensis, I think we all missed this. End Cycle Early

Yes Fifth claimed to me that he had Zinc mid last-cycle. Which is why I changed stance on him like - if you're the convert we've already lost. Or else you're village. Aman Will read more to be sure.

I honestly wanna vote you here so badly, this is just what to did to me and Mat in MR57 -.-

Just realized another village point for Araris. If he's evil, he knows I'm Unsnapped with no reason to lie about my Snapping condition. Then him making me counter-train to the elim is risky because suppose it's Elim 3-2 TJ and elims have a Soothe, then there is a chance that in addition to the elim dying, I could Snap and get Soothe/Riot/Thug/Lurcher/Coinshot. So elims probably avoid making me the counter-train here.

I'm having a headache trying to figure this out smh. a. If Inq!Aman is scanned to have done nothing in C2 -> Wiz should have submitted the kill on Stick in C2 -> But Wiz also knew Bip's role in C3 -> Wiz banked on a future convert on Bip and lied during C3 in the hopes of converting Bip in C3. Therefore, Inq!Aman works only and only if Biplet had been converted in C3 (or C4 if Inq rolled Tin for the duration of C4). Wiz obviously did not scan Mat as he killed TKN. Inq converted Biplet. b. Inq!Bip -> Wiz did not scan anyone in C2 -> Wiz could have killed in C2 and Inq could have converted -> Honestly any of the three could be converted, since Fifth claims to have burned Iron in that cycle. Little less chance of converted Araris because of atium. Little more chance of converted Aman because of the Thug claim. c. Inq!Araris -> Kas did not scan Araris -> Kas killed Bookwyrm. Araris converted someone -> Unlikely to be Fifth due to voting pressure. Possibly Aman due to elim team synergy of Kas-Araris-Aman. Biplet slightly less possible. (a) and (b) required e!Biplet, so going for her is the correct decision here, I feel. If it's (c), well I don't think I can make an argument to convince y'all to vote Araris this cycle. I don't think I can convince myself. Can just say "Araris staunchly read Kas as village", that's all.

If we don't wanna believe Tin Spike, then the simplest answer is whoever is the Inquisitor rolled Tin on C4 and C5. Edit: @Fifth Scholar, you didn't roll Tin in C4 or C5, right?

Bus? In a 2-member team? From D1? Fine, I won't argue from that point anymore. But do you see the reluctance from Aman to vote on Bip? When both cases lead to the conclusion of e!Bip?

Aman, it's as clear is this, because just now you said you believe in a Fifth/Bip team when Bip was the Inq. 1. to your POV, If I am the convert, then Fifth is Mistborn, and Araris is Seer, why aren't you voting on Biplet? As she'd be the Inquisitor. 2. If I am not the convert, then she is. And if so, why aren't you voting for her? Both the cases, it comes down to this. Why aren't you voting for her???

So who is the Inquisitor? Just now you said you believe Biplet is. And now if you believe she's a Converted Tineye why aren't you voting for her?

Yeah, it's not me. Please go re-read mine and Kas interaction. Bro, we don't allow ourselves to sacrifice each other when we're village, you think we'd be arguing in D1 if we're evil? I've been on e!WizKas more than anyone, except maybe Stick. If Stick was PMing any of you regarding suspicion of Kas and mentioned me, that'd be helpful too. Maybe we're wrong about the Inquisitor but I'm very certain the team is Bip + Aman now. Biplet

It's not me, sigh. @Araris Valerian, did you use Atium C1 or C2? Aman could have tried to convert you but failed. If not, Biplet is the Inquisitor.

Smh, I was assuming you could convert and kill in the same cycle, totally forgot about action economy. Okay, just to confirm, @StrikerEZ, conversion is considered as an action, right? Assuming it is, and in a v!Araris world - Cycle 1 - Kas scans Araris accurately, Inq kills Bookwyrm Cycle 2 - Wiz claims to have scanned Bip. Wait, Mat said something hold on - I assume this is C3 beginning because why would Mat ask it in C2. The absolute truth is elims knew Biplet's role at the start of C3. It can happen IF - Wiz scanned Bip OR Elims converted Biplet (either with Tin Spike or she was a Tineye originally) OR Bip is the Inquisitor. Case - 1 : Wiz actually scans Biplet. Inq kills Stick. Case - 2 : Wiz kills Stick. Inq converts Bip (either with a Tin Spike or she's Tineye from the beginning, doesn't matter) Case - 3 : Wiz kills Stick. Inq!Bip converts someone else with a Tin Spike. Unlikely, as it requires Inq!Bip to take a leap of faith that Mat was not bluffing about his role as she claimed to have watched Mat in... C3 I think. Need to look into Kas-Bip interactions/mentions to be more confident that this is not likely. Cycle 3 - Now Wiz obviously did not scan Mat, which is why he hasn't sure of the result. Continuing the cases from Cycle - 2: Case - 1 cont. : Wiz kills TKN. Inq [Araris/Aman] converts one of Bip, Fifth and the other of [Araris/Aman]. Fifth claims to have burned Electrum this cycle. In e!Aman case, v!Araris unlikely to be the convert as they know he's Seer and it's late in the game and they cannot afford a failed conversion. Case - 2 cont. : Bip is converted in this case. Irrelevant what Wiz or Inq does in the cycle tbh. Inq remains confined to Araris or Aman. Case - 3 cont. : Bip is Inq in this case. Convert in [Aman, Araris, Fifth] Tldr: Case - 1 (Scans Biplet in C2, Conversion in C3/C4?) : TJ - Village Unsnapped Araris - Village Seer/Converted Elim Seer/Inquisitor Aman - Inquisitor Fifth - Village Mistborn/Converted Elim Mistborn Biplet - Village Tineye/Converted Elim Tineye Case - 2 (Conversion in C2, Convert is Biplet) : TJ - Village Unsnapped Araris - Village Seer/Inquisitor Aman - Village x?/Inquisitor Fifth - Village Mistborn Biplet - Converted Elim Tineye Case - 3 (Conversion in C2, Bip is Inq) : TJ - Village Unsnapped Araris - Village Seer/Converted Elim Seer + Tineye Spike Aman - Village x?/Converted Elim X + Tineye Spike Fifth - Village Mistborn/Converted Elim Mistborn + Tineye Spike Biplet - Inquisitor I had typed till here and then I had to leave as I'm travelling overnight tonight. Typing this in the bus as we speak, I wanted to post this along with thread re-read + vote analysis to see which case is even more filterable. I'll get to that tomorrow, but as I see right now, Case 1 and Case 2 are a lot more likely than Case - 3, and whenever Araris v Aman come up in Inq discussion, Aman is more suspect.

My reasoning is not this though, not primarily. My argument against you is less "you are a power role left alive till now" and more about the fact that you were strongly suspecting Kas in C2 and to go from there to voting alongside WizKas on JNV is C3 shows a clear 180 degree turn pointing towards being a convert. There is no proper chain thought to explain the move from point A "I strongly suspect Kas" to point B "I'm voting alongside my previously strongest suspect". Edit: I feel like you're seriously understating your role as a glorified random :P. Most of the random roles are very helpful to the elims. In that line of thought, I have a doubt. @StrikerEZ, what happens if a Mistborn is converted using a Spike. Like, will they have a permanent role through their Spike plus the 2 random rolls of metals by the virtue of being Mistborn? So, they'll have a choice 3 metals in a cycle if the random rolls are different than the one they got via the Spike?

I was onto WizKas right from C1 till the last cycle. I'd thoroughly enjoy (or try to) the heck of playing evil with Kas and would never in a million years try to bus him (not the first game of being evil together) especially given the usual tendency of village to read us village together. Why are you assuming they did not succeed? My current theory is that they scanned you in C1, found you were Oracle. And in C2, iirc Fifth and Kas were talking and by Kas' admission, he had claimed Seeker to Fifth already and was v!reading Fifth but he couldn't give me reasons. I'm very sure this is because Fifth had claimed Mistborn is Kas, and this made them change their mind (if they were did think of it) from converting you to converting Fifth. And I think they did succeed. Also, by limiting the discussion this cycle to Aman and Araris, we are forcing the other elim to either defend or bus the elim in Aman/Araris. We can hopefully deduce who that is if we do get the elim this cycle. TJ - Kas PM Review: *In regards to Kas' public guess of Inquisitor play and going for such players - low-activity/hiding Toucan-like play etc. etc.* - C1 - TJ: Aman also matches all the characteristics, don't you think? Kas: Not disagreeing but... have paranoided on him wrongfully before. He has uni work. I have made games bad for him by big thread blow ups *mentions LG84 and QF64*. Want to give him room to grow into the game if Aman is village. Very beginning of C2 - Kas: Concerned that you, Stick, TKN and Aman would make great conversion targets. TJ: So you think Aman is village? (because why would you think someone is a great conversion target if you do not village-read them?) Kas: No. Without considering reads, in a theoretical world, if you are evil and Aman is village, would you not convert him? Given Lurcher claim? Could see a low profile conversion but would largely point to a player confident in the thread. Or Araris. Still C2 - Kas: Why do you think Aman? (presumably because I had Aman in my PoE for Inq in the thread but not exactly sure why he asked this. I misread this as "What do you think of Aman?" and reply) TJ: Needs to speak more. I disliked his abrupt, no-questions-asked, no-discussions-made vote on TKN. Expected him to have some opinion about it and the way he voted it made me feel like he's a elim knowing he's voting for a villager. Very similar to his words in AG8 doc where he said something along the lines of "just put down a vote, don't question anything" to his teammates about your fake red scan reaction test. Kas: Fair. I was looking at EoC votes.... *and pivots to vote analysis and says elims likely did not all vote on Fadran like my PoE suggested* (notably does not discuss further or reply to my Aman analysis) Getting called to a meeting now so will post this as I don't want Shard to eat it and continue later if any other notable things are there in the PM.

Sigh, 3-2 then? Also, e!Seeker means e!Seeker + e!Tineye + Inquisitor + convert would make it 4 elims which is impossible, meaning Tineye!Biplet is village. Unless Tineye!Biplet is the convert. Sigh. Unlikely though. Need to find one more villager. Araris could have been a genuine Seeker Scan for conversion or could be a ploy to get us off Inq!Araris. Or e!Aman is lying about being a Thug. Could have rolled Iron in C1 to guarantee a Protect and rolled Pewter in C3 to prove Thug. 2 out of Araris/Aman/Fifth are evil. Bip and other villager, pls help >> Fifth is the likely convert with C3 votes. But due to the lack of C3 content, can't be too sure... Edit: You know what, let's make it easier by going only for Inquisitor this cycle, accounting for conversion is only causing me confusion and paranoia. The sooner we kill the Inquisitor, the lesser the chance they roll vote manip metals Fifth - Cannot be Inquisitor due to C1 kills. Inquisitors do not roll Steel Bip - Tineye Araris - Possible Inquisitor Aman - Possible Inquisitor Case for Araris - Scan claim by Kas to put us off Inq!Araris. Defended/Village read WizKas till C3. On the contrary, gut says scan was genuine, trying to find power roles for elims to convert. the "I will let Araris know his role" comment by Kas felt not e/e. Plus strong opposition to Wiz last cycle. Case for Aman - Confident claims of multiple roles in multiple cycles. 2T + 1L village scenario with e!Seeker + Inq even including a possible converted!MB scenario feels like a lot. On the contrary... I cannot think of anything firm that would say v!Aman, tbh. I'm going for Aman over Araris pending re-read. Does this make sense @Fifth Scholar, @Biplet, @Araris Valerian, @Amanuensis? @StrikerEZ, voted in the edit.

Gods of Luck and Chance work in weird ways, bro. Who knows, I could have died. You could have died and the matter of the scan on you wouldn't be relevant and we wouldn't have been sure of e!Wiz :P. Lots of possibilities but yes, I really did not expect it to likely be V/V/V/V and maybe I should have unvoted :P. Anyone thinking Kas claimed to have scanned Araris non-Inquisitor to prevent future scans on Inquisitor!Araris, while actually scanning someone else in C1? I think Araris confronting Wiz this cycle is a good look for him, but still considering all the possibilities given Araris has been defending WizKas all game. Edit: Wait the PMs are still open this cycle, so Fifth or the Inquisitor rolled Tin. Or Bip is a Tineye.

Also e!Wiz very much shows e!Converted!Fifth. From voting on Kas in C2 to voting alongside Wiz on Aman in C3. And Aman, if you're village, you probably read me better than I read you (as in you probably find me more village than I do you), and if so - the last cycle was V/V/V/V and the last elim is Bip. edit: or Araris