DrakeMarshall

I for one applaud the more proactive approach though! even if I've never actually done it that way myself "If you start the game with one, you get to name it, and it will have that name for the rest of the game" 10/10 good rules speaking broadly, a lot of rulesets I see seem to come down kinda harshly on giving stuff away to other players, with lots of limitations on how you're allowed to do that eg they limit it to only transferring 1 gift per cycle, they make it cost an action that competes with other actions you could have taken, stuff like that from a certain point of view, the trust mechanics in your taynix ruleset are additionally penalizing gift giving, since you're resetting the trust level of that taynix in most cases and! in my opinion this is slightly unnecessary idk I've yet to see a game get broken by too much gift giving (y'all may take this as a challenge to create a game like that if u want), I've seen plenty of games where the mechanic just doesn't get used at all though both because giving stuff away is inherently zero sum and therefore Not Overpowered, and because people want to have the cool stuff for themselves and are usually a bit reluctant to give it up the one limitation on gifting that probably should exist imo is it should happen after death in the order of operations. Because giving all your stuff away to a teammate on the cycle you're getting exed feels cheap, to me. [honestly even this is probably not inherently unbalanced. if anything it could sometimes keep the game more balanced, since deaths don't remove key abilities from play, cutting down on swingyness. I just think it's a little boring is all] point is! if you wanted to buff giving away taynix / remove some of the limitations surrounding that action, I think that would be grand but this is not an Important Balance Thing and it would not affect whether the game got approved or not, it's just my two cents. It's your game and you should do what you want with it "Lone Taynix know who killed their owner, and whoever did so loses one Trust with them" idk murder feels pretty untrustworthy maybe deduct whatever amount of trust the Taynix had in its owner so if your Taynix had +3 trust in you, your killer gets -3 trust makes it more likely that you could get a Taynix with negative trust in you if you killed its last owner, which I think is very funny just a thought anyways I actually don't have a lot of notes about the different slug types they are good I like them the abilities seem like they should all be pretty well-balanced if distributed correctly ('distributed correctly' is doing some heavy lifting, as it does in literally every game ever, because there is no ruleset that is guaranteed balanced regardless of distro, but I don't think committee reviews are mainly about addressing distro. someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that) well done if you want the game to be role madness (everyone starts with at least 1 slug) then maybe you could stand to create 1 or 2 more types for variety's sake but honestly even if you don't it's fine anyways I would approve this ruleset! if you end up making a lot of changes between now and when you end up running it then maybe don't count that as Official, but I think your rules are probably good for what it's worth

this distro, man well I'm still proud we got within a coin's throw of winning with that said I forfeit I assume it is proper for me to commit seppuku at once Drake

It's an info role that provides alignments of players you are claiming to be an info role that provides alignments of players. we can split hairs, but the shoe fits. only you're saying you're triple the power of a normal one, which is already the strongest role in the game. You understand why that might not make a lot of sense. You can argue that it's not exactly a pure alignment scan, but. Look. Either it's expected to be as good as one, or it isn't. If it's not expected to be as good as one, then there's the additional implausibility that you're saying you got functionally 4 scans off in 1 night. Even ignoring that the second two were only brought up later. If it is expected to be as good as one, then a triple seeker is extremely silly. Either way. ...well, I think I've got you. That's not true and I can prove it. Wahr makes the mistake of thinking we can just sort this out tomorrow if we get it wrong, and instead of correcting them, you reinforce it: You are saying here that everything is fine and Wahr's reasoning for voting Star is totally correct. It isn't. I've got to go but Coco is pretty obviously lying here in a way that helps her case and is misleading about the situation the village is currently in so maybe that helps people sort things out. Coco is saying a lot of things but saying a lot of things doesn't make you right and a lot of these things don't agree I won't be on at rollover. We're probably going to lose But whatever happens it's been an honor I'm reluctantly impressed.

...to be clear, I don't think Myst said any of that, Coco is saying that Myst was actually pretty storming paranoid of Coco in our PM together, much moreso than I was at that point. I was the one telling Myst we should wait and see what Coco does before deciding anything ...I don't actually think you should just follow the opinions of another player unquestioningly, but in this specific instance I suppose it works I'm sorry to be pushy but I'm worried the elims show up and vote the wrong person at the end of the day if we can't build enough consensus at the end of the day

just going to go on record guessing Coco/TUM/Mippo as the elim team leaning more village on Wahr at the moment, in that I don't think Coco makes as much effort to canvas Wahr in the thread if they're teamed. I mean it could be a bit of elim theater I guess but. I don't rly think so. I mean, I've said why I don't think your claim holds up. Apart from my knowing that it's fake you're legit claiming to be a triple seeker here There's also the timing. In a parallel universe where I was a bystander in this whole thing, I'd like to think I'd still choose to believe the person making a sudden big push here at what's certainly LyLo is probably the elim here. Especially if they were under suspicion before then. Especially if they're denying it's LyLo. And it's not like the timing is an accident it's not like you're saying "oh well I just shared the info as soon as I got it" you're claiming you had three results yesterday but only brought the interesting one up now. When the village no longer has any margin for error and we lose if we get it wrong. There isn't really much reason to do it like that if the claim were genuine. It only helps you secure the last needed mis-execution in order for the elims to win, at which point it doesn't matter how suspicious you look. I really don't think it's just your word and credibility against mine and Star's. I think there's details around the circumstances of this claim that we can examine which make the answer pretty findable. But maybe I'm biased. I definitely am biased. With respect I don't think us thunderdoming is going to do much good here going forward, sorry. Maybe we should focus on making our cases to the other players instead.

...plus if you're village, it's also not that much of a stretch to just guess a random villager probably had no PMs at the beginning of the game. ...to be fair, this is actually something we could prove maybe. Coco says she was Inhibited yesterday. Did anybody else have their actions fail yesterday? Honestly might be good to know this about other days too. Can Inibitors use other cytonic actions or does Inhibition keep them from doing anything else? Unfortunately no, elim Coco probably wins in this case because too many village deaths causes the village to not be in the majority anymore. Coco even admitted as much.

I'm not saying you previously claimed a different number of actions, I'm saying you don't have 3 with respect, it's really not .....yeah so this is just a lie pretty much let's reassess some things: there's 8 players alive right now. There could very well be 3 elims. Three elims out of 12 would be 25%, and while I'm often telling GMs to put less than 25% elims, it's actually fairly reasonable in a high-power game like this one. In the very least it makes a lot more sense than the other alternatives. That means a probable 5 v 3. If we execute village today and the elims kill again, that brings us down to 3 v 3. Not technically an elim victory per the win conditions, but pretty grim for the village even with some elims outed. Like at that point it's a coin flip if the village can vote out elims even if everyone votes for an elim. And even if the village wins the coin toss multiple times and it gets down to 1v1 the elims still win. ...so I was incorrect. We cannot in fact afford to take our time with sorting out Coco and Mippo. The elims wouldn't be forcing the issue otherwise. Coco and Mippo are probably teamed, then, because I doubt there's any use in disrupting the vote if there's already a villager on the chopping block. Coco is the more sure thing though, in that I don't particularly buy this is a reaction test gone wrong. @Verdance @___ @Through The Living Star @Through the living Wahr @IcedOutPenguin sorry for the ping but it is probably a good idea to vote today not gonna tell you how to vote, but, read the conversation between me and coco immediately above this message please (edit: to Star in particular though, Coco claims to have used an ability to scan that we share a PM, and is currently trying to get you voted out based on that. I know you've been somewhat hesitant to vote people so far which is kinda fair but in my estimation it is very definitely in your interest to vote Coco here)

I don't have a PM with Star. Also, are you claiming to have 3 scans a cycle now? Coco. you're just making things up at this point Fizz only had three votes what is even going on

Well that could have gone better. Nobody was voting for you yesterday, is self-preservation really more important than averting a misexe? Anyways. My kneejerk response is that today should have Mippo and Coco fighting it out. Mippo is suspicious because I still believe the Fizz v Mippo wagons on Day 2 probably had an elim in it, and Fizz was a villager. Coco is suspicious because I still find her scanner claim hard to believe. A potential 2 clears per day is a lot to give one player, even with caveats. And we've only got 1 cycle's worth of results to work with, and that seems unlikely to change. ...but, I also think it's fairly unlikely that they're both evil together. Coco voted Mippo on Day 2 and I don't really think that would've been necessary in that case. I dunno conceivably they could be hellbussing but I think we should exhaust other possibilities before going there, the simpler read is they're unteamed. So, I kinda think there's exactly 1 evil between the 2 of them. ...between the 2, I think our best option today is probably Mippo. As much as I'm skeptical of Coco, if her claim is real I just really don't want to kill her. I think if we flip one of these players it will tell us how to proceed with the other, and that being the case it's just good sense to not flip the one claiming a really valuable role first.

PSA that my vote doesn't count today again >:[ anyone want to claim responsibility for this time or the last time? ...in any case, y'all should be the change you want to see in the world If multiple people are saying they're unhappy there's no counterwagon, then go out and make one Fizz' response to being voted hasn't especially made me want to back off, sorry Fizz if you're village. But I would still actually prefer if we had more than one (1) option under discussion. Whether or not Fizz is a hit, the lack of movement is not good. I'm really not the right person to be doing this given my position on Fizz, and the fact that my vote doesn't count. But cowabunga it is to put my cards on the table, I'm dubious about Coco's claimed ability. I'm not sure that I buy there's a scanner with 2+ actions in the game (still no definite answer on that but it must be at least 2 based on what Coco has said so far), high power level or no. I'm also not sure that I buy those scan results. Now, there's an argument to leave Coco alive and see if more scans come in, which could help us sort things out by just waiting. That might well be the right argument, I'm not sure. But somehow I think elim Coco just says she got blocked. Or village Coco actually does get blocked. In the meantime we might keep voting out the wrong people, whereas addressing this gives us either a dead elim and a suspect pool of 2 or at least 2 hardclears. ....so maybe we just bite the bullet and exe the scanner Thoughts? ...Coco's also been dissatisfied with the Fizz train without quite going as far as trying to stop it, which has me tinfoiling Coco/Fizz E/V. also tying her alignment to Fizz' flip here, although TBF I think Myst really did that first am I playing devil's advocate here well maybe a little but storm it somebody's gotta do something here and I think we really should be talking about whether we believe the scanner claimant more than we are

well in my experiene it's rarely a mistake to get all the facts when you're trying to sort out a claim like this

Coco, how many actions do you have?

I mean, ideally I’d suggest trying to find who is evil if you are village than the rest of us voting for you have blinders on and you don’t You are uniquely positioned to have good analysis if that’s true! That’s the goal anyways. In my view, this game is often about trying to do something whether or not you believe it’ll succeed. This is no exception. anyways, even if you don’t actually solve the game, effort spent in the right direction does make you look more village. Just walk us through what you’re thinking even if it isn’t perfect. If you are in fact village it ought to come through eventually if we keep trying to read each other. I mean….. I’m already voting for you if nothing else there can’t be that much to lose from continuing to engage that’s my two cents anyhow, do with it what you will

I don’t think I’m reading it positively that Fizz fully disclosed their role quite as early as it happened with only 2 votes at the time. I dunno. Reads based on “defensiveness” are tricky because everyone should be defensive to some degree, I should hope. I don’t think that’s inherently a thing that the elims have a monopoly on. But I do think elims on average tend to jump the gun a little, and kick into self preservation mode sooner than a villager would in that situation. in my view it’s kind of like casting a self-pres vote early

well yesterday’s Fizz v Mippo vote sparked slightly more engagement at the end of the day than the first day’s That says to me it’s probably a little more likely there was in fact something there. So yes I’m down to back a Fizz wagon for now. still kinda want to put pressure on Wahr a bit honestly but there doesn’t seem to be very much appetite for it

similar to yesterday in that respect And consensus hasn't gotten much stronger since then. well my vote doesn't actually count, but in the spirit of consensus-building I should probably change my "vote" anyway Why are we voting Fizz though? I mean I know it's only 2 votes. Still. I don't really have a lot of opinions about Fizz. Let's keep this vote at least somewhat contested. What do people think about Mippo?

I have to gambit at ever opportunity for medical reasons the funny thing is, we didn't actually gambit that much that one time when we were on an elim team together Why does consistency matter though?

On reread, I'm offering Myst some village cred for this immediate reaction Option 1: Twin is village. In this case I think elims are probably unhappy with Twin's survival and becoming softcleared, and probably their first response isn't this, because they don't actually want village!Twin to be hardcleared. I figure they'd probably prefer a more moderate-sounding response that still leaves room to say "it might've been a WGG" a few cycles later. Option 2: Twin is evil. In this case I think most elims probably aren't bold and brazen enough to demand a hardclear on their evil teammate right after a risky gambit. I mean, that sounds like a fun time to me ngl I just don't think most players would do that as elims, I think they'd be more hesitant and wanting to wait and see what the village response to their Risky Gambit was before taking a strong stance. Twin can be treated as villager for now but either way. it's a little interesting that you bring up that nobody could have gotten a scan against you by now while true, the train of thought kind of implies that you think if there had been a scan on you, it might have found something I will say I have definitely seen both villagers and elims do this kind of baity message. Most recently I remember it being an elim just trolling people basically, but it also reminds me a bit of one successful village play once to get reactions out of people. I have some guesses about who might have sent it, but idk I guess I don't feel it's strongly indicative of their alignment

final tally yesterday: Qianwellian (3): Myst, ___ (Mippo), Coco DrakeMarshall (2): TwinStorm, Qianweilian Myst (1): IcedOutPenguin Verdance (1): Through the living Wahr Wahr (1): DrakeMarshall Not Voting: Verdance, Star, Fizz, TUM My personal credence is the elims wouldn't bunch up in one place. When there's no elims in danger, which I think there definitely wasn't yesterday, the default elim behavior is often to just distance, and voting in clear blocs is generally the opposite of that. Therefore, I predict probably not more than 1 elim on Qian, probably not more than 1 elim not voting. Side trains are a little more likely to contain elims because they don't interrupt the wagon on a villager while generally looking a little more helpful than abstaining from the vote entirely. If my train of thought is correct here that slightly points to (Penguin, Wahr)

It kinda feels like not a lot of people cared about the vote yesterday. also I've been mindbladed so my vote won't count today or have I, maybe I'm doing a complicated bluff here not like that'll stop me from solving for now, consider my vote to be on Wahr in spirit. Voting arbitrarily is fine imo but repeatedly going "it's RNG, I'm not responsible for the choice" feels... a bit less fine to me. Somehow I feel more fine with Coco doing it maybe because she moved to a serious vote very soon after. Also I am offended on a spiritual level that Wahr's response to my vote yesterday was basically "nobody's seriously going to exe me today so I don't care who you vote for" but maybe that's just me As for Twin well don't hardclear Twin as village for the rest of the game but also don't vote Twin out today occam's razor says Twin is probably village. Kinda agree with Myst that not many players would likely go for it, though I'm by no means an expert on everyone's playstyles here. That said, if Twin is village which is probably the case, why'd the elims choose him as a target? Reading into it too far is probably a road to madness I mean I've definitely overanalyzed D1 kills before but I'm already mad so I still wonder. I don't think Twin was especially talkative. My best guess at the moment is the elim team subscribes to a low info sort of kill doctrine but it'll become more clear as we see more hits play out ig. Whatever the case, I think we should probably try to vote earlier today. I mean I put off voting until pretty late yesterday so I'm not getting on anyone's case about something that I didn't also do, but. I think leaving it to the last second maybe made yesterday's vote not as useful.

I agree not expecting, trying the difference is important! if there's a better candidate to vote for I'd rather not repeat killing you on Day 1 (well, I wasn't in the game where you were voted out on Day 1 before, but I'll take everyone's word for it) but I'm sorry I'd like to clarify that there is in fact killing intent behind my vote

Qian/Myst's opening feels like v/v though yeah but if the evils are forced to shift votes then we can analyze it in future cycles (or we can analyze it if it looks like they weren't forced to do anything) if it's purely random there's not rly a lot to work with who would you rather I vote for then?

Wahr

Vote Tally Myst (1): IcedOutPenguin Verdance (1): Through the living Wahr Qianwellian (3): Myst, ___ (Mippo), Coco DrakeMarshall (1): TwinStorm TUM (1): Qian I dunno, I kinda still v!read Qian for the initial back-and-forth with Myst at the opening of the day I kinda want to focus more on the RNG voters (Wahr, Coco) because I think 1 of them is decently likely to be evil (probably not both though, I don't think evils usually like to bunch up like that, though I've been proven wrong on that before) I lean a bit towards it being the second one. I'm not sure if an evil is the first person to publicly base their vote on RNG but I could more easily see an evil noticing a villager did that and wanting to copy them Coco has since switched votes to Qian though not sure where that leaves my read

I assume no such things, just be intentional about sharing information is all I s'pose I'm not particularly directing that at you even if it was a reply to your message, just commenting bc you say you've noticed some likely hints and I've also noticed that so yeah