Illwei Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, eltruT said: So, a question for everyone: Is Elkanah’s playstyle different this game than most other games except the one Ventyl quoted? Rephrased: Is there a reason why Ventyl might think Elk has a odd playstyle similar to the one he quoted? It could be similar to LG70, where Elk was a...a role...that could be compared to the HI? My problem is Ventyl's reasons for wanting to kill Elk contradict themselves. He wants to kill Elk because he thinks Elk is an Elim with Turtle, and he wants to Kill Elk because he thinks Elk is the HI. he can't both have TMI with Turtle and be the HI.
Turtle they/them Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Just now, Illwei said: It could be similar to LG70, where Elk was a...a role...that could be compared to the HI? My problem is Ventyl's reasons for wanting to kill Elk contradict themselves. He wants to kill Elk because he thinks Elk is an Elim with Turtle, and he wants to Kill Elk because he thinks Elk is the HI. he can't both have TMI with Turtle and be the HI. Ohhhhh ok. Makes more sense. Ventyl
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) The vote count was just supposed to be for my reference and was not supposed to get posted. 2 hours ago, Illwei said: - I don't think the role breakdown was incredibly useful. I mean, maybe that's just a me thing because there are a lot of newer players here, so maybe it'll help them. It does also basically directly contradict something I was told in a game by Devotary (when they are Elim) which was use your double vote all the time very good. But it is NAI. It is true that if you're willing to vote for someone, you should be willing to use vote manipulation to help make sure they die. Without accountability unfortunately this does mean that if you guess wrong and use vote manipulation to kill a villager there will be unwarranted suspicion on the person you saved. For Elkanah, I think village Elk would use a spreadsheet just as much as elim Elk has done. I do agree that bringing it up and then not mentioning any of the conclusions drawn isn't great, @Elkanah what were some of the relevant posts + thoughts you had about them? I don't see how Turtle(it's kind of weird how we call eltruT Turtle and yet we're fine calling Xinoehp512 by the backwards name. Is it because the o and the e are transposed, or because Xino is a convenient nickname while we haven't come up with a shortened form of Turtle?) being evil would mean Condensation is evil. I didn't pay a lot of attention to MR45 where Elk was evil, but it doesn't seem like the same style. There were some real life attributes to that, but I'm still not a big fan of voting Elkanah. Turtle's vote for Mist is the biggest point against her I think, but it did take place over 24 hours before rollover, which is somewhat premature for an elim trying to push a bus on a villager. Putting the third vote on an elim teammate for distancing is aggressive, and kind of unnecessary when one has already voted for that person then retracted it. I don't think this feels like a planned operation. Ventyl's most recent post indeed doesn't make a lot of sense. I would say the HI is similar to the Monk as an unknown who wants the elims to outnumber the village that the elims would like to kill. It wasn't a good idea to target the Monk in LG70 and it's only slightly more helpful here. I don't know what elim!Ventyl's motive would be for voting Elkanah as an HI suspect. Even if Ventyl and Turtle were teammates, the theory that Elk+Turtle were together would be disproved by Elkanah being a villager. If this had taken me less time to write it might have been helpful, but as it is I do prefer Ventyl over Elkanah at this point. Both people die in a tie, and I'm not really sure whether that's a good thing. Edit: Wait no, ties are random, why did I think everyone died in a tie? Edited October 24, 2020 by Devotary of Spontaneity
Illwei Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said: but as it is I do prefer Ventyl over Elkanah at this point. Both people die in a tie, and I'm not really sure whether that's a good thing. Ties are RNG. Everyone dies in Elk's game.
Straw he/him Posted October 24, 2020 Author Posted October 24, 2020 Lafay had been walking around the ship, doing his normal duties when a large argument erupted. Somehow, someone had found out about his spike and was telling everyone about it. While he almost convinced the mob to kill someone else, they managed to shove him out into space first. Ventyl has died! He was a Loyal Regular. Vote Count: Elkanah (4): Amanuensis, Araris Valerian, Ventyl, Whysper Ventyl (4): Devotary of Spontaneity, eltruT, Illwei, TJ Shade Experience (1): The Windrunner Supreme GM Notes: -The night will end on October 25th, at 5:00 PM EST. -There was a tie. This tie resulted in Ventyl dying. -Don't forget to get your actions in! -PMs are open! Remember to include me and Matrim. Player List: Spoiler 1. @Experience - Shard 2. @Gears - ALASTAIR 3. @Ashbringer - Faleast 4. @Illwei 5. @Elandera 6. @Condensation - Viola 7. @eltruT - turtle 8. @Elkanah 9. @Mist - Tria Noche 10. @Araris Valerian - Fade 11. @Lord_Silberfarben - Lord_Silberfarben 12. @Danex 13. @Whysper - Whysper 14. Ventyl - Lafay Etteax Loyal Regular 15. @Orlok Tsubodai - Locke Tekiel 16. @Vapor 17. @The Windrunner Supreme - COWS! 18. @Flyingbooks42 19. @Devotary of Spontaneity - Orchid 20. @TJ Shade 21. @Shard of Reading - Reading 22. @Amanuensis - Kon the Bard 23. @A Windrunner - Wind 1
Illwei Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Hm. I'm not sure what I think. If Elk is an Elim, and the Elims actually moved to Ventyl practically last minute then since it ended in a tie it would be too obvious if it ended up going Elk's way.
Elkanah he/him Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Wow... I missed rollover, but i really appreciate your vote of confidence. I hope to live up to that
Condensation she/her Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Straw said: The turn is over! Shoot, missed it. Sorry!
Gears Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 This will be the last you see of me for a bit. Next debate round is starting very soon. An analysis of every vote cast last cycle. If I missed one, please let me know, as I am mildly colourblind. Elkanah pokes Windrunner Supreme Vapor pokes Mist eltruT pokes Mist [despite Mist already speaking and being somewhat helpful] Mist votes eltruT for poking them despite their discussion Vapor retracts Mist. eltruT retracts Mist, citing that they have no idea what to do as a non-elim. Condensation pokes Danex. Condensation retracts Danex. Illwei votes Gears for not claiming elim [In actuality, I did and they didn't notice. I'm trying a discreet claim in hopes that it gets me killed less.] Illwei retracts Gears and votes Mist without reasoning. eltruT votes Mist because they think Mist might be the HI. Ventyl pokes Devotary Araris votes Illwei for voting Gears. eltruT retracts Mist because they realised lynching the HI is a suboptimal play. TJ votes Mist for stating the obvious. Whysper votes Elkanah for caring about their image. Elkanah retracts Windrunner Supreme. Amanuensis votes Elkanah for caring about their image. eltruT votes Mist for a combination of gut and liking the reasoning of those who come before [id est, stating the obvious] Condensation re-retracts Danex, though it was unnecessary. Illwei retracts Mist and votes Elkanah because spreadsheets sound alarms. TJ retracts Mist and votes eltruT for contradicting themself. Araris retracts Illwei and votes Elkanah because they think eltruT's oddities can be explained away with NPS [New Player Syndrome] Windrunner Supreme votes Experience because they haven't posted. Illwei retracts Elkanah for lack of information and votes Mist, still without reasoning. Ventyl votes Elkanah because they want to find the HI. Illwei retracts Mist and votes Ventyl because of Ventyl's contradictory reasoning TJ retracts eltruT and votes Ventyl because of Ventyl's contradictory reasoning. eltruT votes Ventyl because of Ventyl's contradictory reasoning. Devotary votes Ventyl because they are more suspicious than Elkanah. Interestingly, Ventyl lynch discussion only happened on the last page, in the last hour. @eltruT has been very back and forth with their vote on Mist, though since they are new, I would be willing to cut the suspicion in half. @Illwei, what was your reasoning on Mist? @Elkanah, could you share some conclusions from your wondrous spreadsheet that you have obviously been working hard on? Also, what are your thoughts on the votes on you? @Araris Valerian, @Amanuensis, @Whysper, what are your thoughts on Elkanah as of now? [Also, tagging isn't working for me, oddly enough. I've had to copy/paste these tags from the OP.] 1
Illwei Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Gears said: what was your reasoning on Mist it was that they had posted things that were only NAI, but that's irrelevant mostly D1. I just want to wait now and see what else there is.
Ashbringer he/him Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Yay for rollovers in the middle of the day! ... I messed that up. Had a personal thing that I'd forgotten about the hour before rollover and it went longer than I thought it would. I'll try to be around more. A tie D1 is interesting. No vote manip is also interesting, but depending on Elk's alignment not necessarily surprising. Vote manip on a tie can do more harm then good sometimes.
Condensation she/her Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Hello. Who was suspicious of Ventyl? It looks like everyone was suspicious because of his contradictory reasoning. No clues there, I think. Right? Thanks for the rundown, @Gears. It really helped.
+Whysper she/her Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Hmm, I didn't realize we could talk during the night cycle. That's different than other Forum Mafia games I've played. 3 hours ago, Gears said: Interestingly, Ventyl lynch discussion only happened on the last page, in the last hour. Thanks for the vote summary. I was asleep during EoD and was certainly surprised to see that Ventyl was lynched. I still need to read through what happened during the day cycle.
Amanuensis he/him Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 14 hours ago, Gears said: Interestingly, Ventyl lynch discussion only happened on the last page, in the last hour. @eltruT has been very back and forth with their vote on Mist, though since they are new, I would be willing to cut the suspicion in half. @Illwei, what was your reasoning on Mist? @Elkanah, could you share some conclusions from your wondrous spreadsheet that you have obviously been working hard on? Also, what are your thoughts on the votes on you? @Araris Valerian, @Amanuensis, @Whysper, what are your thoughts on Elkanah as of now? [Also, tagging isn't working for me, oddly enough. I've had to copy/paste these tags from the OP.] The tags give me a lot of issues too, especially using them in succession. Been an issue for years, but surprisingly never tried copying/pasting. Mostly I just refresh the page and keep trying like a crazy person I'm just as suspicious of Elk, if not more, given the sudden influx of votes that saved him from the lynch. I've sent a PM his way to see if I can determine his alignment better with some 1-on-1 interaction. I'll have more to say on the matter during the next day turn
+Whysper she/her Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 14 hours ago, Gears said: what are your thoughts on Elkanah as of now? 20 minutes ago, Amanuensis said: I'm just as suspicious of Elk, if not more, given the sudden influx of votes that saved him from the lynch. I still hold suspicions towards Elk, but I actually still need to review more posts. I didn't get much chance today. However, I doubt that the influx of votes on Ventyl were elims trying to save Elk. That would be too bold and just draw too much suspicion on them. At most, maybe one elim was involved in that.
Amanuensis he/him Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, Whysper said: I still hold suspicions towards Elk, but I actually still need to review more posts. I didn't get much chance today. However, I doubt that the influx of votes on Ventyl were elims trying to save Elk. That would be too bold and just draw too much suspicion on them. At most, maybe one elim was involved in that. I'm of a similar mindset. I'd look closest at instigators, I.E. the player that made the case or pushed it the most. 1
Gears Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 29 minutes ago, Amanuensis said: I'm just as suspicious of Elk, if not more, given the sudden influx of votes that saved him from the lynch. I've sent a PM his way to see if I can determine his alignment better with some 1-on-1 interaction. I'll have more to say on the matter during the next day turn If Elkanah is an elim, it is very likely that some of the voters on Ventyl are elims. The sudden Ventyl swing is strange, though that post was contradictory and strange. Devotary typically votes last minute, eltruT seems to have a tendency to follow votes, Illwei started the Ventyl vote, and TJ agreed with it. If any of these people are elims, I would suspect eltruT and TJ, though since eltruT is new, I'm inclined to think better of them. If Illwei was an elim, they could have started a train onto someone with votes on them already. TJ just followed Illwei's reasoning. @Elkanah, I would like to see evidence that you are working on a spreadsheet. A screenshot, perhaps, or a list of conclusions. Mentioning a non-existent spreadsheet is a good way to look helpful but do nothing. 17 minutes ago, Whysper said: I still hold suspicions towards Elk, but I actually still need to review more posts. I didn't get much chance today. However, I doubt that the influx of votes on Ventyl were elims trying to save Elk. That would be too bold and just draw too much suspicion on them. At most, maybe one elim was involved in that. Probably so, though depending on Elkanah's role, they might have taken a greater risk. If Elkanah was, for instance, the only elim Hemalurgist, it would be paramount to avoid their untimely demise. 1
+Whysper she/her Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 17 hours ago, Straw said: Vote Count: Elkanah (4): Amanuensis, Araris Valerian, Ventyl, Whysper Ventyl (4): Devotary of Spontaneity, eltruT, Illwei, TJ Shade Experience (1): The Windrunner Supreme Oh, I noticed this vote count is in alphabetical order rather than voting order. Is that normally how the vote counts are shown on this site? Usually it's important to consider when each person got onto a wagon, so I found this interesting that the info is lost here.
Straw he/him Posted October 25, 2020 Author Posted October 25, 2020 42 minutes ago, Whysper said: Oh, I noticed this vote count is in alphabetical order rather than voting order. Is that normally how the vote counts are shown on this site? Usually it's important to consider when each person got onto a wagon, so I found this interesting that the info is lost here. It varies by GM. I personally do it alphabetically since that's the easiest to generate with a spreadsheet.
Illwei Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Amanuensis said: I'm of a similar mindset. I'd look closest at instigators, I.E. the player that made the case or pushed it the most. *waves hand, awkward smile*
Condensation she/her Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 So... (correct me if I'm wrong) Illwei was either wrongfully suspicious or they picked up a good reason to act suspicious of Ventyl and get them lynched. Is that correct?
|TJ| he/him Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Really not getting the suspicion on Elkanah at all. I've not been interested in Elkanah lynch throughout the cycle. Since no one supported the suspicion on Mist, Ventyl was the next most suspicious. The evidence put forth so far seemed a little forced for me to support it and it looked more likely to be a mislynch. I do believe there's definitely an elim vote on Elkanah. That's a another thing difficult to discern since only 9 of the 23 players voted, it's difficult to gauge the distribution of elim votes, as the majority of them might have decided to just not vote if villagers put village candidates up for elimination, so we might have to look for players who were active but didn't vote. Can someone explain why some people thought of Turtle-Elkanah team? I was suspicious of Turtle, but could never make the Turtle-Elk connection.
Condensation she/her Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, TJ Shade said: Really not getting the suspicion on Elkanah at all. I've not been interested in Elkanah lynch throughout the cycle. Since no one supported the suspicion on Mist, Ventyl was the next most suspicious. The evidence put forth so far seemed a little forced for me to support it and it looked more likely to be a mislynch. I do believe there's definitely an elim vote on Elkanah. That's a another thing difficult to discern since only 9 of the 23 players voted, it's difficult to gauge the distribution of elim votes, as the majority of them might have decided to just not vote if villagers put village candidates up for elimination, so we might have to look for players who were active but didn't vote. Can someone explain why some people thought of Turtle-Elkanah team? I was suspicious of Turtle, but could never make the Turtle-Elk connection. Sorry, I didn't get on in time. I was reading upstairs.
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