Illwei

Im shaking and screaming and crying

If Qian is an Elim that means that the silly rule I hate to believe in is true for this game and I'd hate for it to be right. it would mean either one in Qian/Grub which i mean I village read Grub, or one in Qian/TJ which i mean i lowk v read tj idk man i hate games I would rather not have any questions on who will die. ugh. idk. UGH. stop. UGH EDIT: Hoid EDIT EDIT: UGH AGH I SHOULDA LOGGED OFF FOR EOD

Votes could be moved as well I suppose, with keys or bribes or whatever you may. I think I would love to see coco dead, as it stands. (Erm- no offence coco). but that wouldn't happen today. People still, despite being given all day, have not made any comments about why Qian is an Elim besides the "defence" and "self preservation." I really don't think that he's going to flip Elim for some reason, and I think the worst thing that could happen after that is potentially just moving on to killing Hoid. I suppose I'll have to find out in an hour. Qian Mint did you feel you could get a train going on me? I'm confused by the near end-of-cycle vote? Edit: mmmmmmmm...

I think the constant battle in my mind during every C2 is the debate over where we Exe Do we go for the counterwagon(s) from D1, seeing as we hit a Villager? We'll never know what happened fully on D1 without resolving another moving wagon. But if we do that it's always for information, and information based exes are never what you want them to be. They only work if, like an Elim Self-killing, it's a winning move. Otherwise you're down people. OR Do you go for someone else. Someone who you feel there is a case on, but it's hard to justify when everyone wants to talk about the counterwagons. When you know that if they /don't/ flip, that there is a chance they can never be trusted even if they are Villagers. I don't know. Qian or Hoid could both be an Elim. I suppose. If they aren't, is everyone alive going to be able to find them, or find them enough to justify killing someone else ? Idk, it's a moot point. Either I keep my vote and Hoid dies, or I remove it and It ties, or I move it to Qian and Qian dies. EDIT: Hoid can you tell me who you think you have unpaired yourself with in thread? Why are you not teammates with specific people?

PMs are closed.

Also I'm gonna take back my comment that TUO and Hoid are unpaired. After re-reading through C1 there is nothing I find that sways me. I also take back the TUO/Grub unpairing. I love games EDIT: @Hoid Slayer Can you give some examples about coco? Having just read through can you give more info than "Hasn't said much?" I have comments but I feel as though people keep using my words and thoughts that I've said so far with less elaboration. Coco shaded hoid so I went through and made a list of things for him, and before that I provided a detailed summary of why I didn't trust Coco. lol.

Gonna share this with thread, even though I know people will probably go "uhhhh this makes no sense" Yellow is likely unpaired, green is "potentially pairing actions" but like, ignore them because they don't matter to flips. I think i unpaired some people early on for easy things that mayyybe I shouldn't have- but idk it's a rough Idea. Another Caveat is that if Coder is an Elim I don't think he is ever partnered with BOTH TUO and Hoid, but I also have TUO and Hoid as unpartnered as is, so that's fine. If Hoid is an Elim (i know i know, I'm voting on him-) I really only see him with Coder/TJ/Hopper/Stardust, which really isn't a lot. I think through activity he has pretty much unpaired himself with everyone else. Everyone like. in thread. I think the most solid unpairings are probably Qian and Coco though- Coco from their side with their instigating suspicion on Hoid. -- You're so sweet for that EDIT: This is a really good unpairing moment between Qian and Hoid - if you read it. Qian's response is what people are initially right now talking about why he's suspicious partly, and Hoid's half is him backing off slightly of Qian because he knows his vote is unjustified. This would also mean more if Qian was dead and flipped V, but how I see this is another point for why I think Hoid could be an Elim- because his initial response was "I didn't like the goodnight post," but when pressed on it more it turned into "I know it was a normal goodnight post, but I didn't have anywhere else to vote." ED2T: Again, I don't think I'm dying tonight, but I'm also paranoid and though pairings aren't incredibly useful as a grounds for an Exe, I do want to get my thoughts out before the next cycle because. Well. Uhm. I'm paranoid.

No, You cannot. So we have two people. Everyone has two actions. I do stand by that everyone should be going after the Agreement, as Grub brought up, but if you aren't or you are don't advertise it to the thread. Bonus actions cannot be blocked. If you are providing favour, please use your bonus action.

EDIT: @coco.pudding I never said anything I believe, but even if I had Coder had 1) Not been in thread yet 2) explicitly told me it had come from TUO in a PM. Real Edit: Well that's embarassing again. It's showing that I don't actually hit the edit button and instead just draft a new post with "EDIT" at the top..... Honestly you shouldn't have said anything to begin with here lmao, but it is what it is.

@Hoid Slayer, @Stardust, @The Unknown Character, @coco.pudding, @Through the Living Hopper, @Mint11, @Qianweilian, @CoderDrag0n8, @|TJ| Second Reminder that most people if not all should be using their Bonus Action (some should probably use their main action-idk feels like something) to be grabbing the Agreement. Though I understand if people are not going to be on in the next hour. __________________________________________ FAVOR: Today we have currently 3 people providing favor, correct if wrong. Mint Coco Qian

Oh yeah, Just to let everyone know- The reason I'm caught on TUC/Coder being Elims and have been trying to shake myself out of that- what I was talking earlier and coco was asking about. I already told Mint but I'll tell thread about it since, Idk, end of the cyle. I don't think I'm going to die, and I'm gonna try to get out some more thoughts before the end of the cycle but first I'll just talk on this: Coder in his opening PM to me mentioned that he had heard I was a returning player. This was before he popped into thread the first time, probably very shortly before he did he sent me the PM. I asked him where he heard that, because immediately I had a hard time imagining myself come up in conversation in a PM, He had not been in thread to see TUC's post about everyone, and even if I did come up in conversation...he didn't seem very...conversational? it had to have been a direct ask. I then asked him about it, and he said that it had come up in conversation with TUC, as he had PMs with TUC and Hoid. I had also said something else in the PM unrelated and he didn't respond to that part. Then when I asked TUO, who responded in thread without prompting (to his merit), he, well, I mean you can see the responses. It was basically him saying Coder asked him about me, which, while not completely conflicting with Coder's story...doesn't really match how I truly want it to. Anyways. Derps like this- from the Elims- Are rarely trustworthy, and when they are real they are still hard to go on. Hence me trying to move conversation and my mind away from this potential world. Just gonna put this out there though. Could be dangerous to but i figure idk why not free information.

If you weren't voting for Hoid out of self-pres, where do you think you'd be voting? Last cycle you tried to stay away from his wagon, so just wondering.

Any thoughts on those who are ?

Every other, I may have forgotten when this started so I actually think rollover is tomorrow. Lol.

@Hoid Slayer, @Stardust, @The Unknown Character, @coco.pudding, @Through the Living Hopper, @Mint11, @Qianweilian, @CoderDrag0n8, @|TJ| I'm just going to boost what Grub said earlier about axies- Everyone should be going for it this round. It's a big step closer to losing the game if the Elims get it. Additionally, I believe everyone, or most people, should use their bonus action slot to go for it (unblockable action.) I'm headed to work until an hour before rollover, so I'm submitting now and hope that all of you do to. -- I was looking through some old games, they're extremely convoluted recently so it's not working too well lol. I think I'm standing by my read of coco. I think one thing that's silly but is standing in between me and village reading Qian, is the use of "last village game." again, it's silly, and the fact that they reference a village game at first is a good sign. Were they an Elim in lg112? I think their comparing Myst to that is interesting if so... I'm spitballing waiting to clock into work. But yeah. If Qain was an Elim in LG112, then I think that he is still more likely a villager here. It's still hard to compare anything to LG112 or the game Aman ran, which seem to be the more recent games. Was LG111 FFA? I'm so lost. Either way I'm NGL I do think that I don't wanna kill Qian today. I think his defensiveness isn't AI, considering his other content having been engaged. People are focusing on his first and last posts- and self preservation isn't AI in and of itself. I really want people to talk about Qian more if they are voting on him. There is a lot of votes (3 I believe), for basically self-pres and his defensiveness in the beginning. Can we start looking at more than this ? Qian do you have any comments on what's been said so far? Late to work now but I'll see yall later. If you do nothing else, grab Axies. Elims will be. We gotta be too.

Yeah exactly Im kinda at a point where theres some people I cant quite call anything right now- Star, tj, coder, hopper In terms of reads on them Id probably say light V on hopper and lighter v on coder based on what I said earlier. Bad feelings around tj right now for what I said earlier, his logic of voting wahr. In terms of everyone else: Hoid, TUC, coco, grub, mint, qian. Im ~fine with a qian exe today, but I dont like how it seems to be the natural progression with limited discussion. May review and change my mind. grub, mint are people I trust at the moment. Mint, grub, hopper are the people I would like for sure to stay alive today. Coco, tuc, and coder are probably right outside the pool today for me, depending on more flips. Tj, star, qian, hoid Theoretically I should be fine with any exe in this pool. Theoretically. I feel like you can tell when im mobile posting vs on comp lol

EDIT: I also lean V in gen on coder, really only because he popped in to disagree with two people's reads, and not to townread anything. I see that kinda pop in as towny more than not. I'm gonna go ahead and Hoid ED2T: Well that's embarassing.... Uhm..... Could someone...uh....Araris? maybe?

I had a longer response written here, but I want to do what I said to myself I wouldn't do this game- I'm gonna look through some of Hoid's older games before commenting on my thoughts on him. I think there are some things that he does that reads as standard Elim setup- The opening with the first idea for correct mech play, but not taking a for sure side on it. Then agreeing with me when I said I didn't think it was the right choice. The style of his posts which are mostly mass quote responses with one liners that don't address much. (including the agreement when the idea of Elims self-targeting with the factional as if that was a reasonable idea, and not one to counter??) In general being very agreeable (see: agreeing with my contradiction of him, with Myst on Elims self-kill, with Grub on no exeing, with TJ kinda on Wahr.) Sitting on his same vote all day, even when he didn't want TUC dead supposedly, he didn't swap his vote to anyone else, just proposed people went on Qian and Wahr. So like. Yeah. Idk coco, you convinced me ig. went through to do a trustfall and reverse but the only good parts I felt were pretty much His tone, being free of sorts Being the first to place a vote I think that was pretty much it -- Side comment to talk about grub- I do again believe them to be village. Re-reading over their posts in C1 just make me think moreso. Their change in tone isn't as big as it felt in the moment, and I feel as though they're putting more thought into it than I would expect an Elim in their place to. Especially because I would expect the other Ghostbloods to be asking/encouraging them to play into the newbie angle for their first game. Also about TJ- I didn't think much about the vote yesterday, but voting on Wahr because you agreed with/could understand Hoid's vote on Qian, and Wahr didn't is...I mean, the correct path is to vote qain there, or perhaps town Hoid. The logic doesn't follow to them vote Wahr for not seeing it. I suppose I'm guilty of this too. I don't know what to think about that. Again going to post this now because it's getting too long and people should be able to respond

Going to move away from my conversation with TUO, though I still hope for a response. Covering a...bit of a lot, but not too long of a read I think? soz for wall, tried to organize. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @coco.pudding RESPONSE TO COCO+ While I would love to explain, I don't think I will at this moment. I think we should talk about other things today and I don't want that to get too in the weeds with everyone, since it's basically a tinfoil off of a potential derp in a PM that would implicate two players. That's all I'm going to say on it now, and in case we don't live in that world we shouldn't dwell on it too much. Gonna move on to some other comments I've been thinking about. While I'm on the topic of "responding to you," I'd love if you would elaborate on who you might think the Elim team is based on your NK analysis. You said you don't know quite who you would put in that box of "Active, controlling thread, and confident," but do you have any GTH ideas? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VARIOUS NIGHT KILL? Personally, My first thought was that they were killed because they were suspected to be the thief, and the Elims didn't want PMs, or their stuff to be stolen accidentally. Throughout C1 they were the most vocal about strategies revolving the Thief, and if there was a thief in the game. Those are two things that I associate with either an Elim trying to find the thief (as an attempt to avoid having to fake solve, which is a classic Elim move), or the Thief themselves trying to not seem like the thief by bringing them up. If they weren't killed for this then it was likely just for being widely village read and vocal. As I said, any Elim team is incentivized to silence the loudest voices first. But in this game it helps even more, since less active people are less likely to be using their abilities. ACTION USAGE? Speaking of using your actions, I noticed that almost nothing was taken from the cargo hold. I will admit, I forgot to submit my actions...but what...uh...were your guys' excuse? I assume people have more than I do if they don't need to grab anything. I personally thought that the Elims would be trying to grab the Favourable Items to keep them out of the Village's Hands, but I apparently was wrong. Only 2 out of 3 keys were taken, which means only 2 went for them. Only one boast was gone, so only one person went for that. Both books were gone, and multiple people could have went to grab them, but I feel like that didn't happen. So 5 out of 11 alive people got items, and 3 supposedly used Favor, but everyone has a second action slot? I can't even begin to imagine the amount of items potentially used last cycle if those people didn't try and grab something as well. Maybe I'm missing some downside! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CURRENT READS Still kinda all over the place a little, but gonna talk about a few more deeply. I think. I have about 15 minutes before I leave for work. COCO Coco for me is an Elim. The read may be a little wonky, so bear with me. Stereotypes TUC said "They often seem Elim when most villagery," and people often feel this way about some players, but really what you are reading as villager-y is usually just laying low. Real villagers are often not scared to speak up or cause noise. They're not scared because they don't have anything to prove to anyone. Personally I think Hoid is village for this reason. I'm also leaning V on grub for the same thing. They were townread for acting new, and then suddenly they come out acting louder and more confident. saying "embarassing to be seen as new because i actually do have experience." these are things I see as Villager coded. Generality For me, Coco hasn't done much. I will acknowledge it is C2, and half into it. This is about 72 hours in, and they have already stated they didn't have much time. I'm willing to give grace, but at what point do you stop saying "I can't push them because they said they were busy?" and I also acknowledge that it is the 4th and people are likely busy. I still got a game to play. The main thing that always bugs me is when people say "I'm busy but I will be back." In this case, Coco did that 3 times during C1, and each time followed up with another. they did pop in a little from here and there, and at the end. But anyways here we are Specific posts I think the first awkward post I saw from coco was their response to myst- Myst said "i better be able to trust you," and Coco replied "I was about to say the same to you." This may seem pointless to bring up, but it is later established that Coco had no reason to call Myst untrustworthy. Can't say that's not awkward. What would a villager have been more likely to say? Would an Elim have been more likely to simply say "yes!"? I can't say they would, but to me it looks like Coco is trying to find an answer that won't look awkward, and instead lands on something that doesn't make sense for their history and context. But it's not saying yes or no, because either of those could come off as suspicious perhaps. Now I will admit, this next bit mildly relies on assuming TUO is an Elim, but works even if he is not. This is a post type I associate with Elims in general. it's a non-commital pop in generally, but if TUC is an Elim it's a non-committal check in to see if they can get anyone off of them. "A lot of people saying they have village lean" doesn't assign any weight of the read to themselves, which if they are an Elim absolves them of "townreading their partner" on flip. If TUC is a Villager then it does about the same- it implies they care about the outcome, without having placed a vote or actually took a stance. If TUO flips village there then they can say "I knew this was bad" and hope to get credit for it. I'm running late for work now ASHDUsfd This post is an apology for the kill basically. I mean, sure they're talking about myst being the thief and I'm not misinterpreting that, but yeah. It's an apology for the kill. Also before anyone says, yes they posted this today, and it's content. I also will say that it's all about the NK, which is another type of "I am going to talk about it because I didn't do it" tell. Of course it's not always right, no tells ever are. I do have to leave for work now, so I'll drop this and be back I will say: positive for coco- they were on at EoD talking about Favor. That's a positive. An Elim wouldn't neccesarily need to be on fighting the lag to try and talk about coordinating favour last minute.

TUO I am TRYING and I mean this when I say it TRYING to find grounds to sustain a townread on you from. :P. Real derpslips like this dont happen often. So believing it outright would be dumb. And I know quoting PMs isnt something we do. But I also want to say that I need more info on what happened that brought me up. Because in my mind the only thing that reasonably I could see players doing is talking in an Elim doc about what players are threats and how much. Please help me out here. He was not very conversational with me in PMs. But it sure sounds like there was at least a page in yours to bring the topic to "players entrances" I don't mean to come off rude, so if I am I apologize. But I am having a hard time moving past what feels like it should be a derpslip. I suppose I can ask @Hoid Slayer what your pms with coder were like, if he talked a lot.

@Mint11 at work right now so I can probably respond more in depth later I wasnt happy with how TUO was sitting at the top for a while with no interaction. So I flipped to tie it. As I said before I do think I dont trust my read on TUO, and I may have made a grave mistake last cycle (not talking about the vote). But yeah. Theres some tinfoiling already about what I talked to you about before. Main thing is I didnt like the lack of movement. Qian's movement specifically is noted to me. EDIT: I do agree regardless that Hoid is a villager here. I have a tinfoil world where I'm wrong on that, but mostly I read his posts as genuine and free flowing. Again, ill comment or revisit more later when I am off work. ED2T: I do think though that this "goodnight, goodbye, be back" thing from qian is strange. Wondering if this is a normal thing that he has done before? The way it came about pushes me to think that he felt he couldnt stop it because he was suspected in C1 for it, so he must continue. It is also a strat of sorts, as I've said before, to be present in thread to a degree, or to keep people thinking you will be present, without making much content. Take anything I say right now with a grain of salt though, as I am on my phone and am not factchecking myself. Just off memory.

TUOs eyes only EDIT: Do players items go back into the hold when they die? Or do they disappear?

@Mint11 eyes only

You can change it up to the deadline unless im mistaken btw, not that im saying yoi have to but for the future AFAIK you can change it to the deadline unless stated otherwise. His responding is confirming, im sure.

If you've noticed, he is no longer in thread. So of he responds great, if he doesnt then maybe you should be the one to retract.