Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Herowannabe he/him]

So... query, did I actually get targeted by a fireball, or was that just RP?

 

You were actually fireballed and killed.

 

Tulir, if you're still around, will you add a little note of all the players that died, what happened to their seons, etc? Thanks.

[Alvron]

Dear people who decided to not protect Wilson, thank you. I've officially won my first bet My luck is definitely turning around!

 

Also: called it on Kipper #Dulabros4life

That's one bet you shouldn't have placed.  The odds of the three of us surviving the game were much higher.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Wow. That was a lot of people killed last night.

 

Good Game all! Pan-Dareth will rise again!  

 

Funnily enough, I actually selected Luckat as my Odiv back in Day 3 or so. I was desperate for conversation, and I also wanted someone to plot with. It just so happened that she was a Cultist. 

[Herowannabe he/him]

Edit: Sorry about the extra posts. Internet Fail.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Herowannabe

[little wilson she/her]

That's one bet you shouldn't have placed. The odds of the three of us surviving the game were much higher.

I know, right? Though I'm still not sure why Twei or Seonid didn't protect me. Meta knew this would be the last night because of how many people we were killing, and it doesn't matter if the villagers die. They still win. The lovers have to survive.

[Kasimir he/him]

That's one bet you shouldn't have placed.  The odds of the three of us surviving the game were much higher.

*And* I won it. I'm just that storming lucky, Sule

[Metacognition he/him]

Wow, that was an amazing ending! Definitely up there as one of my favorites. Bravo you two!

 

I can't wait to see the links to the Cultist Doc and the Secrets of Elantris. As Tulir said and from my brief stint there, they're pretty awesome. 

 

EDIT: Wilson, we were still playing the long game, on the off chance that the Cultist didn't know about the fireball extravagansa and whether or not Clanky or Dow was a Cultist. So we opted for defending our Warriors more so than anything else. We still figured that if there was one left out that they'd go after me or the Warriors. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Metacognition

[Herowannabe he/him]

Edit: Sorry about the extra posts. Internet Fail.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Haelbarde he/him]

Ah, so Elantris decided to end the game by just killing everyone then? I had had that thought, but I wasn't going to suggest it (being one of the unconfirmed potential victims and all). But awwww.... I was so close to surviving my first game....

Thanks for running the game, Hero and Tulir! 'twas very fun.

 

A question to the more experienced. I spent a large portion of the game on the 'suspect' list. Any suggestions on how I could have played better?

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Here's the Elantris PM Doc.

 

Also, I think that flurry of actions last night rivals the second last night in LG5.

 

Edit: Here's the Spec/Dead Doc

Edited June 21, 2015 by Lightsworn Panda

[Haelbarde he/him]

Oh, a question. Who was Feligon's hostage? Who would have died with him?

[Metacognition he/him]

Ah, so Elantris decided to end the game by just killing everyone then? I had had that thought, but I wasn't going to suggest it (being one of the unconfirmed potential victims and all). But awwww.... I was so close to surviving my first game....

Thanks for running the game, Hero and Tulir! 'twas very fun.

 

A question to the more experienced. I spent a large portion of the game on the 'suspect' list. Any suggestions on how I could have played better?

 

Hael, I spent most of this game constantly telling people that you were either a very good villager or had the foreknowledge of a Cultist (that's a compliment, btw ). I don't think that you could've done much different, it's more a matter of you feeling out how everyone plays and us figuring out how you play. 

 

Also, with regards to your hypothetical situation where I was playing some long con idea? I absolutely loved it! When you asked if I would do something like that, I literally said, "heck yes I would!"

[Tulir he/him]

Oh, a question. Who was Feligon's hostage? Who would have died with him?

It was Kas who would have died with Feligion

[Haelbarde he/him]

Also, with regards to your hypothetical situation where I was playing some long con idea? I absolutely loved it! When you asked if I would do something like that, I literally said, "heck yes I would!"

I am not sure how I feel about this. Whether to be pleased that you loved the idea, or terrified that this is something you would do...

[Metacognition he/him]

Both? Probably safest to go with both.  

[Haelbarde he/him]

So basically feeling divided sounds about right.

[Seonid he/him]

So...confession to make as your new king:

 

I actually didn't protect anyone tonight. By the time I got on to put in my action, the cycle was over. Not that it would have mattered much - I would have protected Meta, not Wilson, because he'd asked for it, and I didn't have time to think things through.

 

The cultists gambled that the Warriors would protect Meta that round, because his pendant had been used, and successfully got Wilson killed. If I'd have had more time, I might have come to that conclusion, or I might have protected Twei, thinking that they were going to try to sneak a kill through on the Warriors. An even bet either way.

 

Setting my misdeeds aside for now, this was an amazingly fun game! (Also, isn't it weird that I end up with protection roles every single game that has them? Just a side note...) Props to Tulir and Hero, and thanks to all of you for making it so much fun to play with!

[Haelbarde he/him]

Heh. Wilson, it seems you (sorta) got me killed again... What exactly am I doing wrong? I made you a banner and everything!

[Kasimir he/him]

It was Kas who would have died with Feligion

See? Exactly my point. I always die in these games, particularly when some koochoo e chu ta decides to...*trails off in expletives*...

Hence my deciding to sacrifice myself to keep a dangerous potential-Eliminator in check

 

Heh. Wilson, it seems you (sorta) got me killed again... What exactly am I doing wrong? I made you a banner and everything!

You're not her Lover. That's what's wrong

Edited June 21, 2015 by Kasimir

[Claincy he/him]

Heh, that's what happens when you give 5 people kill roles at once

 

Can't remember if I already said this in the cultist doc but thanks for running this Hero/Tulir

 

In case anyone is wondering:

My inactivity was a necessity not a tactic, though it worked out better than I expected. I thought I'd be killed early on.

I have a personal rule about not lying about real life stuff (anything in-game is free game of course ).

 

Would I have been more active if I'd been a villager?

Maybe slightly in the thread, but not much. I'm not happy with how inactive I was this game but that's the way things went.

 

If I knew I was going to be so busy, why did I play?

I knew I'd be busy for the first part of the game but thought I'd have more time after that, then got really sick.

 

So why didn't I step aside and let a pinch hitter step in?

I really don't like leaving something once I've committed to it. A little after I got sick I finally resolved that maybe it would be best if I did ... just as we ran out of pinch hitters.

 

I did actually have a bit more time/ability starting around day 8. But at that point we knew we'd lost, and I didn't feel like putting in a ton of effort to maybe survive 1 extra cycle in a game that was already essentially over (for us) when I still should be studying for my final exam. *shrug*

 

Also, with regards to your hypothetical situation where I was playing some long con idea? I absolutely loved it! When you asked if I would do something like that, I literally said, "heck yes I would!"

If I hadn't known that you weren't a cultist I would have been maintaining a health suspicion that you were doing just that, at least for a couple of days.

 

I'm a little pleased that we guessed both Seonid and Twei as the Jindo's, even though we didn't manage to kill either of you I would like to note that the two of you did an excellent job.

 

I think I've already said all I wanted to say about balance and mechanics in the spiked doc. A lot of it was in conversations (aside from one particularly long analysis) so you can read that there if you like

 

As no-one has linked it yet, here's the cultist doc.

 

Lastly I'd like to reiterate something I said in the spiked doc:

overall it’s certainly one of the coolest SE games even counting balance issues

[Herowannabe he/him]

Lightsworn already post a couple of these, but here are the links to the relevant docs and spreadsheets. 

 

Spectator/Dead doc

Cultist Doc

Elantris PM log- Everything that happened in Elantris

Master Spreadsheet (note that it has multiple tabs in it, including one for all the Elantris secret areas)

 

I'll leave the docs open for people to edit for a few days, in case anyone wants to comment on anything, and then I'll lock them up.

 

I'm working on a big post where I comment on a bunch of aspects of the game but my internet it being really flakey. Hopefully I'll be able to get it posted tonight. If not tonight, then tomorrow sometime.

 

EDIT: I should note that for the Elantris PM log and the Master Spreadsheet nobody is allowed to edit them, for obvious reasons, but I left it open for people to leave comments on them, if they wish.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Herowannabe

[neodymium]

Hero & Tulir, you guys did awesome!  I look forward to playing another of your games in the future.

[Kasimir he/him]

Should add the Lovers had a code that seldom saw use in the end, because Wilson and I kept screwing it up every single time we tried to use it Also, because it was so basic that by the time Mek gave me Kii, I gave up on it completely. Oh well.

 

Not to mention it wasn't always clear when the code was in use, and I had to spend a good amount of time going back over Wilson's and Alv's posts to make sure it was/wasn't there. Was a bit of a relief when Alv got sent to Elantris and I didn't have to worry about his posts, I can say that

[Herowannabe he/him]

Hero's post-game GM thoughts:

 

Thank you everyone for playing this game! We had a few hiccups here and there, and the rules were not as balanced as I had hoped, but overall I think it went well. It sounded like most everyone had fun, and that’s the most important thing. Now that the game is over, I have a few things I wanted to mention as Game Maker (put in spoiler tags to limit how much space this post will take up):

First, The Bad:

Balance.   

So there were a couple things that threw off the balance of this game, the most notable being the dang Korathi Pendants. I decided a day or two before opening signups that we needed at least one more item to go with the Seons and Poison, so I came up with the Pendants. They seemed like a great idea at the time, but I failed to realize how powerful they could be, giving people thug powers that can be transferred to other players, such as the priests. They were also almost universally one sided in favor of the Citizens. Yeah, they could save a cultist from being converted or save a Shu-Dereth from a cultist kill, but primarily their presence hindered the Cultists/Gyorn far more than helping them.

Also, including 2 priests and 2 Shindo Warriors- 4 guaranteed safe roles (at least until the Odiv was selected)- tipped the balance of power in favor of the citizens a little bit. However, I don’t think this was as bad as the pendants. Still, this is an issue that I will be addressing for round 2 of this game.

The Good:

Overall, I think the game worked well- far better than my first attempt anyway. Even though things ended up being skewed in the Citizens’ favor, it wasn’t completely one-sided. Both the Cultists and the Gyorn still could have won it, if a few things had happened differently, especially early in the game.

Elantris. The whole Elantris aspect of this game worked exactly as I had hoped it would, which makes me very happy. I’ve had several comments from players and spectators already that following the Elantris explorations has been their favorite part of the game. We got to see poison used to silence players by sending them to Elantris for a day or two, we got to see players made Hoed because they were too much of a threat, We got to see several players taken by the Shaod, and best of all, we got to see Elantris restored!

The Roles: I introduced a lot of new roles that we hadn’t seen before in Sanderson Elimination games, and I was quite pleased that none of them really turned out broken. Having the priest and the jindos be safe roles was a bit of a mistake, as was making the priest immune to being converted, but other new roles like the Duke, The prince, the Dulas, the pirates, the keepersOTST, and even the Elantrians all worked well and didn’t create any problems.

Overall I’m happy with how things turned out. I still wish I had gotten the balance a little better, but oh well.

 

Pinch Hitting System: This was the first time we have tried anything like this out for a SE game, and I think it worked really well. Having a handful of pinch hitters to step in for players who were inactive or who were pulled away by real life was invaluable. My only criticism was that it almost made it too easy for players to bow out of the game- we ran out of Pinch Hitters very quickly. My advice to all players in the future is to try your best to participate in the games as much as you can for as long as you can. A little bit of participation is still better than nothing, even if you don't have time for big analyses and can only add the occasional comment/vote here and there. Let the pinch hitters step in for players who are truly inactive or who are absolutely unable to participate any more.

Honorable Mentions

These players deserved some sort of honorable mention for their role in the game:

Feligon: First Death- Congratulations Feligon, you are now part of an exclusive club- Those people who got killed in an SE game before really having a chance to do anything.

Wintercloud: Most votes- You managed to earn yourself more votes than any other player in the game. The round you were lynched you had 17 votes on you. The next closest was Jain with 14. The fact that so many people wanted you dead says something awesome about you.

Emerald101: First Pinch Hitter- Pretty self explanatory, but props to Emerald for being the first one to ever step in as a Pinch Hitter for a SE game!

Neo: Master Veteran Elantrian- Out of the 15 areas of Elantris, there were 3 that needed to be searched in order to restore the city, plus one additional area that was not available until the other 3 had been discovered. When designing Elantris, I estimated that it would take the Elantrians an average of around 10-12 cycles to restore the city, roughly the length of your typical Long Game. By the end of night 5, Neo had found all 3 of the areas with his veteran hints. From there it was just a matter of visiting the areas and restoring the city. The Elantrians actually could have restored the city night 7 but they elected to hold off for an extra day. Well done Neo!

Wilson: Titan Title Holder- At the end of the game Wilson had no less than 6 roles/sub-roles! They were: Queen, King, Lover with Kasimir, Lover with Alvron, Elantrian, and Convert. She very nearly broke my spreadsheet with her abundance of roles.

Kasimir: The Queen Eshen award (If you don’t remember, Queen Eshen is Raoden’s step-mother, the one who could talk on and on about nothing in particular)- Since beginning this game I have received roughly 2,400 emails from 17thshard PM notifications. Of that number, over 900 of them were from PMs that involved Kas. That’s roughly 37% of the emails I received as a result of this game. Kas’s own LG12 PM between him and us GMs was by itself 8 pages long. Even if we only attribute half of those PMs to Kas (assuming that the person he was communicating with supplied the other half), that's still over 450 (18%) of the PM notifications I received this game.

Next game

Elantris will return!  Despite it’s flaws I’m really happy with how this game turned out, and I had a lot of fun running it. I’ve already started working on version 2 of these rules, in which I will address all the balance issues, make a few things like actions/votes/giving items more streamlined, and of course, I’ll shake things up with several new roles/items/Elantrian secrets. I'll have the new rules posted sometime in the upcoming days, once I can get them written out. As a sneak peek, expect to see things like a Korathi Pendant 2.0, Jeskeri Pendant, Shu-Dereth Pendant, Pirate’s axe, and very possibly a monetary system where players can earn, spend, and invest coins.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions/comments/criticisms/etc. that anyone wants to offer in regards to improving these rules  

Thanks

Lastly, there are several people I want to extend my sincere thanks and praise to:

First, Tulir. This game would not have happened without you. Yes, I came up with the rules and ran the game for the most part, but your aid has been invaluable. I simply would not have had the time or means to run a game like this on my own. You have been awesome helping with writeups, vote tallies, PMs, and everything else. I could not have asked for a better Co-GM. So thank you!

Everybody, please go shower Tulir with upvotes! He deserves every one of them.

The Mods, and especially Gamma Fiend. Gamma has played a pretty quiet but crucial role in managing the threads in the forum as well as keeping an eye out for any unsportsmanlike activity. Fortunately, there wasn’t really any of the latter, but thanks to Gamma all the same for his role in making sure this game could happen the way it did. Thanks to all the mods for setting up this amazing system we have for SE games!

Our Pinch Hitters: Emerald 101, Wyrmhero, A Smart Guy, Silverblade5, and Burnt Spaghetti. Thanks to each of you for stepping up when other players needed to step down. You were a huge help in keeping a game this large running smoothly. Seriously, all of these guys deserve a smattering of upvotes as well (especially Silverblade and Ghetti, who both to my knowledge have never participated in a Sanderson Elimination game before). Thanks guys!

Everybody who played: This game would have been pretty lame without you, the players. Seriously though, thanks everyone for your participation, PMs, deductions, comments, excellent roleplay, memes, good humor, and everything else. Thanks for following the rules- there wasn’t a single person who I felt stepped out of line this game. Thanks for your good sportsmanship all around and for making the game enjoyable for everyone else, too!

[Herowannabe he/him]

LOL     

 

@Haelbarde I just saw your updated Wilson Brightness Ascendant banner. Hilarious. Upvotes for you!

Edited June 21, 2015 by Herowannabe