Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Haelbarde he/him]

LOL     

 

@Haelbarde I just saw your updated Wilson Brightness Ascendant banner. Hilarious. Upvotes for you!

Heh. Thanks! Fitting, I think. Dunno if we'll see the original again. Depends on Wilson, and what happens in the next game.

EDIT:

Also, Burnt should get recognition for her first action in the game (ignoring a vote) resulted in a triple kill (she put in the kill order last night).

Edited June 21, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Metacognition he/him]

Heh. Thanks! Fitting, I think. Dunno if we'll see the original again. Depends on Wilson, and what happens in the next game.

 

You could always join Alv and abandon that cause. I don't promise anything other than chaos and lots of death. Whether that is yours or others is in the hands of said chaos. The only thing I stipulate is that it's all FUN!

[Haelbarde he/him]

You could always join Alv and abandon that cause. I don't promise anything other than chaos and lots of death. Whether that is yours or others is in the hands of said chaos. The only thing I stipulate is that it's all FUN!

...We'll see...

 

EDIT:

 

Curious, when's the next one start?

Edited June 21, 2015 by Haelbarde

[little wilson she/her]

Heh. Wilson, it seems you (sorta) got me killed again... What exactly am I doing wrong? I made you a banner and everything!

I actually asked for you to be removed from the list and replaced with Emerald. I had no control over Alv's choice. If he wanted to kill you, he wanted to kill you, and that was that.

[Haelbarde he/him]

I actually asked for you to be removed from the list and replaced with Emerald. I had no control over Alv's choice. If he wanted to kill you, he wanted to kill you, and that was that.

 

I did notice that, and so thanks for that. RP wise though, it was your death that drove Alvron to grief and burnt me to a cinder as a result. Though really, the blame falls on my sister for killing you in the first place... Thanks Burnt Spaghetti :frowns:

[Herowannabe he/him]

I almost forgot to add this! Welcome to the LG12 Bonus Round! Totally just for fun, but let's hear your answers to all the "what if?" questions!

If you had been made Hoed, what would your 5 words be?

"there is always another secret" would have been mine.

If you had been King/Queen, what would your inheritance rules have been?

Definitely some sort of Tineye-message-esque puzzle/code. First person to crack it becomes my heir

If you had been Dula, who would you have made lovers?

It may not be original, but I would have gone for Wilson and Claincy. I'm not scared of you Wilson!

And etc. Let's hear all the things you would have done if X had happened instead. Have fun with it!

[Bort he/him]

That was a fun game. Thanks for running it Hero and Tulir

 

So, what mistakes did I make as an Eliminator? I can think of one obvious one - I shouldn't have mentioned my time zone. I'm pretty sure that contributed to the suspicions against me.

 

Kas, you said something about my defense tying into something Kipper said. Could you explain please? I'm not sure what you mean here.

[Haelbarde he/him]

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Game Quicklinks

• Signups
• Day 1 - Fel/Mek Lynched.
• Night 1 - Orlok Killed, Zas converted.
• Day 2 - Spencer Lynched.
• Night 2 - Cultist and Gyorn targets protected by pendants. Phattemer allegedly Cultist target.
• Day 3 - Mailliw73 Lynched.
• Night 3 - Bort was poisoned, someone else saved from Cultists.
• Day 4 - Winter discovered to be a Cultist and Lynched. Wyrmhero and Emerald join the game.
• Night 4 - Phattemer killed, Meta probably poisoned.
• Day 5 - Honey Badger, a Citizen Pirate, was lynched. His hostage, Zas (a Cultist), died with him.
• Night 5 - Jindo Warrior prevents the Cultist killing, Alvron taken by Shaod, Bort returns from Elantris.
• Day 6 - Bort, the Cultist Prince, was lynched.
• Night 6 - Cultists get thwarted again
• Day 7 - Surgebound, Citizen King, lynched. The Brightness Ascendant becomes more powerful than you could possibly imagine. Burnt Spag joins the game.
• Night 7 - Jindo protects Twelfth from Cultist attack
• Day 8 - Lightsworn, the Gyorn, is lynched.
• Night 8 - No one killed, Elantris is restored.
• Day 9 - Araris, a Citizen Pirate, is lynched. His hostage was Claincy, a Cultist Debtor.
• Night 9 - Burnt stabs Wilson, gets incinerated in return. Hael gets turned to ash by a distraught Alvron. Kas and Alvron die in Wilson's funeral pyre caused by Wilson and Alvron. Luckat fails to crossbow Seonid, and is instantly cremated by Renegade for her troubles. Clanky vaporizes Prince Silverblade, thinking him a cultist. Seonid becomes king, while Wyrm misses all the action as he becomes Elantrian.
• Wrapup
• Bonus Round - Currently Active

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Quicklinks Strike Back!

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If you had been made Hoed, what would your 5 words be?"

When Hero posted the rules in the 'Art of Game Creation' thread, I sent him this PM:

 

 

I had one question regarding the rules of your game.

If I became Hoed, and my 5 words were 'hmm' 'banana' ':/' 'oh' and 'Negative', could I post a message like:

hmm banana hmm hmm oh banana hmm banana banana oh banana hmm banana hmm oh hmm hmm hmm hmm :/ hmm banana banana oh hmm hmm oh hmm banana hmm hmm oh hmm hmm hmm oh banana banana banana oh banana hmm 

Or choose '.' '-' '_' '/' and something else, and post:

.-.._-.- ._-.-._..../.--_.._.-.._..._-- .

Which is morse code for 'lynch Wilson'. 

Because the way I read the rules, that would be allowed, but does not really fit the spirit of the rules.

 

If you had been King/Queen, what would your inheritance rules have been?

First off, you must mean King and/or Queen.

 

It'd have depended on the point in the game. Near the end, would have probably just designated Kas, or maybe Meta, as heir. Early on, I might have considered a puzzle. Probably still would have given it to Kas though.
 

If you had been Dula, who would you have made lovers?

I put some thought into this before the game. A Gamma-Wilson matching would have been amusing. May have gone the Wilson-Claincy route. But I thought those were both a little dangerous. Ultimately I'd have probably chosen myself and Wilson - thought it'd be fun to get to work with Wilson. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Haelbarde

[little wilson she/her]

I did notice that, and so thanks for that. RP wise though, it was your death that drove Alvron to grief and burnt me to a cinder as a result. Though really, the blame falls on my sister for killing you in the first place... Thanks Burnt Spaghetti :frowns:

Exactly. I can't control what my lover does upon my death. I'm dead. Also, your sister? This explains so much. Yep, she's definitely been added to my list. And while your addition last game was more of a joke (since you never actually made the list), she's truly on it. (Of course, the death of the lovers threw Luckat, Meta, Seonid, and Twei on there too)

[Bort he/him]

Hoed five words: Yes, No, @, Dodgy, Kill. This is harder than it looks, coming up with five words to be your only form of communication.

 

Inheritance: Whoever can write the best ketek (judged by the spectator doc) about killing cultists.

 

Lovers: I probably would have used the Lovers mechanic to give myself a starting ally, probably Luckat.

 

Or, if I had known at the start of the game what I know now, I would have been sorely tempted to pair Wilson and Claincy.

 

I do really wish I had been Elantrain for this game, as exploring the city sounded like (and was for my brief stay in Elantris) rather fun. Did you guys actually find out what was in the University, by the way?

Edited June 22, 2015 by Bort

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Hoed Mantra: Pandas. PANDAS. PANDAS. PANDAS. PANDAS!!!

 

King/Queen Inheritance Game: Write the longest piece of poetry you can about how beautiful pandas are. Choose your own Rhyming Pattern.

 

If I had been Dula: Forgive me, oh Brightness Ascendant, but I would have made you Lovers with Claincy. Just kidding. I value my fur over trolling. I would have matched myself with Kas or Wilson. 

 

If I could send PMs freely, I would spend my last Day spamming everyone with Pan-Dareth Pamphlets. 

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Since the Queenship was never mentioned, I seize Wilson's crown?

 

Good game, Hreo, and thank you for running it. I think I agree with your comments about the game, but I would also add that I feel that the Gyorn and Odiv need some way to remove players from the game.

 

Normally, the Cult (not Jeskeri, the general Mafia term) is able to take over the game slowly by converting players to their side. This gives them a measure of control over the lynch as well as allowing them to neutralise players. In this game, the converted players did not gain the win condition and did not help the Cult (in fact, they hurt them by narrowing our search for the Gyorn down), and so they were basically 'marking' players and saying 'when the number of marks equals X, I win'. It makes it very easy to take the Cult out once the two players have been discovered, particularly since they had no way to permenantly deal with search Roles. I would suggest either giving them a limited number of kills, the ability to overwrite the Roles of the converts, or protection from being found by Priests. Just something to let them affect the Village more than once, basically.

 

I'm also not sure what I feel about the Pinch-Hitter system, to be honest. It works quite well if something comes up, but we did have at least one player who was inactive but did not make use of it. People who were semi-inactive decided to use it rather than hang on, which was useful, but took away the option for the people who really needed it. It also hurts the Village due to the fact that the new player can't exactly answer questions about what the previous guy did. I feel it needs to be stressed that it's an emergency use, and that if you know you can't join actively all game at the start, then you still should probably not sign up.

 

But, speaking as a Pinch-Hitter, I had fun. At the very least, I helped get Jain discovered, which I call a win. I enjoyed my PMs with Kas, and am secretly glad to have become an Elantrian at the end, though I wish it happened a few Cycles earlier .

Edit: Kas made a liar out of me. I said the Dula weren't shipped

Edited June 21, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Claincy he/him]

Please take the following with a grain of salt.

 

If I had been made a Hoed my words would have been:

This is not a code.

 

If I had been a King my inheritance rule would have been one of the following:

-Whoever tells the best joke

-Whoever gives the most inspiring speech

-A code/puzzle of some sort, (realistically I wouldn't have had time for that though )

 

If I was a dula....

Yeah, I woulda done it. Wilson & I.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Exactly. I can't control what my lover does upon my death. I'm dead. Also, your sister? This explains so much. Yep, she's definitely been added to my list. And while your addition last game was more of a joke (since you never actually made the list), she's truly on it. (Of course, the death of the lovers threw Luckat, Meta, Seonid, and Twei on there too)

 Uh oh... Well at least i'm not the only one on the list 

I will consider it an achievement that I actually made it onto your list before Hael. 

Although, to be honest, I actually checked to make sure you weren't playing the quick game before putting in the order, just in case you would kill me first cycle :/

 

 

Edit:

 

I'm also not sure what I feel about the Pinch-Hitter system, to be honest. It works quite well if something comes up, but we did have at least one player who was inactive but did not make use of it. People who were semi-inactive decided to use it rather than hang on, which was useful, but took away the option for the people who really needed it. It also hurts the Village due to the fact that the new player can't exactly answer questions about what the previous guy did. I feel it needs to be stressed that it's an emergency use, and that if you know you can't join actively all game at the start, then you still should probably not sign up.

 

 

That's true. Whenever I got accused, it was due to some of Kippers actions, and if he had still been playing, then you guys would have got responses, whereas I couldn't really say much as it wasn't due to my thought process.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Kasimir he/him]

Kas, you said something about my defense tying into something Kipper said. Could you explain please? I'm not sure what you mean here.

 

Ho-hum. It's hard, and I'm going to try and put it in a way that hopefully ticks off as few people as possible. Basically, if we bracket whether or not about Kipper's rant about experienced players and bandwagoning on non-experienced players has any merit out of game (i.e. we do not think about it on a meta-level, because it does have merit)--I noticed that your defense of yourself was sort of slipping into that territory?

Kipper made points that, whether meta-game valid or not, were extremely useful for an Eliminator to claim. He made conflations about power and bandwagoning and dogpiling on players that are...let's put it this way: they might or might not be incorrect, but they particularly fit with the mindset a certain subset of players: informed minorities who have the game stacked against them. The bit where he talked about being afraid that by just speaking against an experienced player, he would be bandwagoned on by the rest of the thread definitely brought that home. It reminded me of how Alv and myself were trying to turn everyone against Meta in LG5 as Eliminators, and definitely tried to paint the game as being one of Experienced Players versus Everyone Else. [i should note at this point that as a philosopher-in-training, I do tend to be more stringent on what makes a good argument and argumentative conflations. It is everyone else's prerogative to disagree; that is just how I am training to understand and dissect good and bad arguments because a lot of my discipline is about rationality, the laws of truth, and what makes an argument good or bad.]

I noticed some of the points you were making in your defense tended to resonate with what was brought up in Kipper's rant. You brought up player betrayal (naturally on the part of those who had played before), and then subtly tried to tie Meta and Wilson to that notion. You brought up how I wasn't meeting the standards of reason explication I had first mentioned--and then subtly raised the question of whether other experienced players would call me on it, or whether they would be hypocrites about the matter.

It's hard to put my finger on exactly what, but you seemed to be buying into Kipper's dichotomy, and I've learned from experience (my very first game, as it were) that it's a very useful line to pull. Now, not everyone who goes "Guys, let's turn against the vocal/experienced/confirmed" are Eliminators. But Eliminators can and do help themselves to such reasoning, and when you seemed to be moving from similar perspectives of the game as Kipper, I felt that ought to say something. That it was a connection worth exploring, even if it wasn't a smoking gun.

I hope that helps.

 

Edit: Again, as I stress--this is leaving behind the extra-game concerns. This is me thinking strictly within the dimensions of the game. There is a level on which I generally think it's good to ask one's self questions about how to play the game in a way that maximises enjoyment for everyone else (altruistic hedonism ftw), but that has nothing to do with Eliminator play, per se.

 

Edit 2: Hreo and Tulir, thanks for your patience with my endless PMs and for running such an excellent game, especially one that had a tendency to turn ugly at certain junctures Really appreciated, and I take my hat off to you two!

Edited June 21, 2015 by Kasimir

[little wilson she/her]

Since the Queenship was never mentioned, I seize Wilson's crown?

You can't get it that easy. It wasn't explicitly mentioned because it was RP-based and the game is over. However, if you really want it, it was a competition of who could exemplify the traits of Retribution, Justice, Strength, and Willpower the best, as chosen by the dead doc participants. Have at it, Wyrm.

[Claincy he/him]

You can't get it that easy. It wasn't explicitly mentioned because it was RP-based and the game is over. However, if you really want it, it was a competition of who could exemplify the traits of Retribution, Justice, Strength, and Willpower the best, as chosen by the dead doc participants. Have at it, Wyrm.

So if Clancy killed himself would he become monarch?

Retribution - yep

Justice - yep

Strength and willpower - after a fashion yep

 

Or just that anyone who killed Clancy would become Monarch

[Wyrmhero he/him]

You can't get it that easy. It wasn't explicitly mentioned because it was RP-based and the game is over. However, if you really want it, it was a competition of who could exemplify the traits of Retribution, Justice, Strength, and Willpower the best, as chosen by the dead doc participants. Have at it, Wyrm.

 

Considering I've had them all in my Kas' signature since the beginning of the game, and my name literally means those things, I think I win at it automatically?

[Metacognition he/him]

If you had been made Hoed, what would your 5 words be?

 

I had this planned out from the beginning. I not only wanted to be an Elantrian, but I would've gladly started as Hoed!

 

"Good, Yes It's No Evil."

 

The way I figured it, I could indicate whether I felt a post was "Evil" or "Good" and could also play 20 questions with anyone that wanted to find out why I felt a certain way. 

 

And as I later indicated during my time in Elantris, this would also make it fairly easy for me to indicate people if I wound up as a Priest (which, surprisingly I did!). 

Just state a list of all the players I could scan and then I could go down the list by stating who's good, who's evil and yes/no for not sure. 

 

If you had been King/Queen, what would your inheritance rules have been?

 

Oh man, you know the thing I miss the most from these games? The characterization. I loved how people were still capable of using their wits, but also developed a character with them. Not only did it make my job easier when I GM, but it made each death feel like it meant something. Remember Eddie's (Edgedancer's) death from LG2? Even having written it, when I read back through it, it still gets me sometimes.

 

If I were King or Queen, I would've given my crown to either the person that had developed their character the most beforehand or it would've been based on who could write the most heartfelt RP. It wouldn't have been about how awesome/uber your character was, but how much you could make it feel like it was a living, breathing human. 

 

If you had been Dula, who would you have made lovers?

 

No problems here. I would've made myself and practically anyone else my Lover and hope that we wind up with a way to communicate.

 

Just give me someone, anyone else to work with and I'd try to turn it so that we'd be the only survivors! (really needs to be an uber evil smiley face) Elantris and all of Sel could burn, but we'd be left, dancing around the destruction! Mwahahahaha!!!! 

 

Ahem! I mean, I'd probably just make Claincy and Wilson Lovers.... Yep, that's what I'd do. Nothing to see here.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Metacognition

[Kasimir he/him]

No problems here. I would've made myself and practically anyone else my Lover and hope that we wind up with a way to communicate.

 

Just give me someone, anyone else to work with and I'd try to turn it so that we'd be the only survivors! (really needs to be an uber evil smiley face) Elantris and all of Sel could burn, but we'd be left, dancing around the destruction! Mwahahahaha!!!! 

 

Ahem! I mean, I'd probably just make Claincy and Wilson Lovers.... Yep, that's what I'd do. Nothing to see here.

And people wonder why I crossed Meta off my 'Inflict Kas as a Check' shortlist...

1. I picked my words for if I were Hoed, based on the fact that I was Lovers with Wilson. 'Words can not be taken.' It's a short form of that very touching line scrawled by Dorfl in Feet of Clay, saying, 'Words in the heart can not be taken.' Just as a bit of a reference, since I'd planned to go Morse code with it.

 

2. King/Queen...no idea. I'd honestly just have passed the role to a player I greatly trusted, to keep it safe from Cultist hands.

 

3. Well, if I had the chance to do things over again, I'd have paired Alv with myself, instead of Wilson. Given my paranoia and my position of ignorance, I would still prefer to serve as a check on a potential Eliminator, and I do not think my dying rate would negatively affect his overmuch. To be frank, Wilson only won out because I flipped a coin to decide between her and Alv. As I see it, Alv had lesser chance of dying, which made him a far better anchor point for the triangle. I was very tempted to pair Wilson and Claincy, but I'm glad I did not. Strategy before trolling!  [Then again, I might've really gone with the dice. Who knows?]

 

4. Hreo, just curious: when you said in my role PM that you'd forgotten that Seonid was out of town and made me the Dula instead, does that mean I'd have been the Jindo before I traded with Seonid to become the Dula? o.O

 

5. If Wyrm had been in the game, I'd have paired us hands-down though. Sod strategy, hello trolling!

 

6. If Wilson had been made the Odiv, I'd have had to RP at one point: "Kiireon, you're breaking my heart. You're going down a path I can't follow." Whether I'd have killed myself is open for debate. Certainly, uttering that line might be enough to cause Meta to kill me or himself

Edited June 21, 2015 by Kasimir

[Guest]

It appears that the bus I'm on has free Wi-Fi, (!) so I'll say a couple things.

Balance: I do think that the combination of the Pendants, Elantrian powers, and safe roles made the village too OP, but don't take me too seriously...I am an Eliminator.

Wilson: It wasn't me who killed you! Don't kill me! It was all Burnt!

Seonid: Yes! Please allow me this moment of glee for deducing that he was a Warrior. I still don't understand why suspicion was placed on me for the attempted Seonid kill. He said several things in the thread that any Cultist would have noticed.

My “rant":

It was for real. I actually believed everything I said, with no intention of manipulating anyone. That said, I realized at the time that some people would construe it as a ploy to gain favor, but I felt that it needed to be said. I later took it out of game, and the mods are talking about doing some cool stuff to address some of my concerns. Note that I never suggested going after the experienced players, and I didn't mean to imply that.

Me: How did I do this game; honest assessment? I want to know how I could improve. Wilson and Seonid, your input would be nice, as I was in a PM with both of you.

[Haelbarde he/him]

(really needs to be an uber evil smiley face)

Like this one?

[little wilson she/her]

Considering I've had them all in my Kas' signature since the beginning of the game, and my name literally means those things, I think I win at it automatically?

You only have them in your signature because I told you about them. And anyway, the RP is the most crucial part. It was meant to be my entertainment for dying. I will not have my crown taken and not be entertained thoroughly beforehand.

[Herowannabe he/him]

4. Hreo, just curious: when you said in my role PM that you'd forgotten that Seonid was out of town and made me the Dula instead, does that mean I'd have been the Jindo before I traded with Seonid to become the Dula? o.O

Yep.

[Shallan she/her]

Do we get the master docs?