Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Araris Valerian]

Wow. A lot happened last cycle, and I didn't really have a chance to figure out what was going on with the lynch because graduation time is busy. Anyway, as far as I can tell, there are 3 reasons that Mailliw got lynched. Firstly, people didn't like his idea of trying to create a tie lynch in the middle of the day when we could still pick somebody as a group. Secondly, a lot of people emphasized that Mailliw was acting suspiciously in PMs. I can't really expound on that since I wasn't in any of them. And lastly, the Elantrians were trying to lynch zas, with what the village decided wasn't very good reasoning, so we needed a solid margin to stop vote manipulation.

 

My vote was based solely on that last point, since I wasn't really up to speed on things. I want to look at the people that vote for Mailliw early on last cycle, because it seems like most of the discussion didn't amount to much after zas got mentioned, but people just voted for reason number 3. I will try and get back sometime soon but maybe not for another day, I'll have to see.

[the winter system]

So we lynched Mailliw. I wasn't sure about that lynch, but I could see what people were saying. So I didn't want to object. So much has been happening I'm having trouble keeping track of everything.

Those with Seon Contacts with Elantris, why was Zas made a Hoed?

I'm going to read this thread again, try to figure out what happened. Will add more thoughts later.

[luckat]

I'm really sorry about how inactive I have been. I've barely had time to read some of the posts, let alone do any analysis on them. I'll try to do more in the future.

 

I'm really just dropping in here because I have some information that I thought I should share. I'm the one the Gyorn tried to convert. I'm sorry for not mentioning this earlier. I spent most of the time I had for this game during the day cycle trying to figure out whether that would be revealed. (If it hadn't been revealed, I was considering whether it might be better to let the Gyorn think I could be a Priest.) Now that it has been, I think it's better for me to share this information so we have a better idea of who the Gyorn is based on who they want to convert, even though I won't have future convert lists.

 

I'm going to try to look back through the thread and see if there's anything I can contribute. It will probably take a while though.

[Bort]

Forgive me if I take that comment with a cup of salt. I don't trust you one iota, and while I appreciate the anonymity you're giving the Duke/Duchess, the fact remains that we asked the vote manipulation roles to not use their ability. The Duke/Duchess chose to. They took a risk. While I think they are probably a villager, there's a chance that they're an eliminator too and your protection is actually a hindrance. Or you could be an eliminator and you and your teammates are figuring out who the Duke/Duchess is at this very moment in the doc.

 

Each is game different. Each game has different problems that the village has to overcome. Not only that, but depending on the players, the dynamic will be different. Yes, there are some players who are absolutely against talking about any roles whatsoever. And there are some roles I feel that way about. In this particular game, we shouldn't be trying to publicly discover who the Priest and the Warriors are. Unfortunately, the Priest is now public. I'm positive that we can't do much more damage than that (unless the warriors became public knowledge as well, and then we're rather SOL). So yeah, I don't think talking about vote manipulation roles when villagers aren't supposed to be using them right now anyway will hurt much. On the contrary, it could help find an eliminator or two.

 

 

I disagree. It might help us find an eliminator, or it will provide a list of players for the Cultists to take out to prevent us from manipulating any vote as we get into the mid-late game, when votes become more important as there as fewer of them. I just think it's safer to keep that kind of discussion to PMs.

[little wilson]

I disagree. It might help us find an eliminator, or it will provide a list of players for the Cultists to take out to prevent us from manipulating any vote as we get into the mid-late game, when votes become more important as there as fewer of them. I just think it's safer to keep that kind of discussion to PMs.

 

A list? There have been two vote manipulation roles using their powers thus far this game. We have no indication of more. The Prince(ss) has used their power all three Days and the Duke/Duchess used theirs once. Since the Prince(ss) is almost assuredly a Cultist, that's giving the Cultists one name. And that's assuming that the person is even a villager to begin with.

 

I'd be happy to take the discussion to PMs. Alas, I don't have a Seon. And most of the people in the game don't have Seons. So that's much easier said than done. Pretty much just leaves the thread, and for two names, one of which is definitely a Cultist and another who could be? Worth it.

 

Kas, I'd like to submit Bort's name for the poison.

[the winter system]

I disagree. It might help us find an eliminator, or it will provide a list of players for the Cultists to take out to prevent us from manipulating any vote as we get into the mid-late game, when votes become more important as there as fewer of them. I just think it's safer to keep that kind of discussion to PMs.

It's also hard to do that if none of the vote manipulation roles have Seons.

EDIT: Okay, here's the analyisis.

Edrab Leah (Haelbarde)

- Unsure. Useful links. Useful explanation. Clarification.

Jain (Lightsworn Panda)

-Been pointed out, maybe something but I don't think so.

Kae (Winter Cloud)

- Me.

Mainem (Mckeedee123)

- I have no idea. Started out good, and I'm pretty sure Mckdee stayed that way. Pretty sure. Who knows.

Borter Clams (Bort)

- Suspicious, maybe Cultist? I sort of agree with Wilson on this account, though it is possible that we're missing something. If Bort makes a good case for defense, a really good case, I'll probably not vote for him. I just feel like I'm missing something, something important.

Gerald Hobbes (Kipper)

- Apparently Keeper of Secret Tunnels. Useful terminology.

Clankii (Clanky)

- I wasn't sure about the last minute bandwaggon, but that's probably because I didn't like not being online for the "BOOM! HE'S DEAD!". I've changed my mind since then about the bandwaggon. It's unlikely that the Cultists would mess with that, unless one of the targets was an eliminator. It has sense been proven that Orlok and Mckdee were both villagers at that point. He's given good reasons, so I won't distrust him because of that.

Edaan (Alvron)

- No idea

Dow (dowanx)

- Same reasons as Clanky.

Arfear Quinn (Araris Valerian)

- I wasn't sure why Mckdee thought Araris and Orlok were lovers, actually. Either way, contributing quite a bit to discussion.

Hene Bata (The Honey Badger)

- I don't know

Duke Pifferdan (Lord Pifferdoo)-Emerald 101

-Can't say anything here, obviously.

Clancy (lord Claincy Ffnord)

- Real life problems suck. Nothing to say.

Kaian (Kasimir)

- LOTS of useful discussion! I (kind of) trust him.

Redodaa Tialehe (ostrichofevil)

- Pretty innactive

Kiireon (little wilson)

- Supposed Queen, I trust her. A lot. Probably to a dangerous degree, but lots of discussion and I trust her.

TOO BE CONTINUED!

MenE (Metacognition)

Karlin (Surgebound Rainspren)

Nathanael (Aonar Faileas)

Sheon Idris (Seonid)

Tehen (twelfthrootoftwo)

Won LenReen (Wonko the Sane)

Liala (Luckat)

Edited June 1, 2015 by Winter Cloud

[Kasimir]

...I hate to break up this fight, ladies and gents, but clock's ticking and I'd like to get a menu of options besides Bort, though I have my own suspicions. (Come on, guys, you don't really want me to be going off such a restricted list, surely...)

1. Reiterating Winter's question: anyone can figure out exactly why Zas was made Hoed? (The 'why help the Gyorn?' thing just was unclear from the start, and as far as I can see, the Hoed thing was a result of the Elantrian attempt at a lynch, but I'm not sure. It doesn't seem entirely willing on Zas's part either--he put a vote on Neo, rather than on himself. I don't think the situation is entirely clear-cut.)

2. This is something I'm sketchy on and I'd like confirmation on the matter. Do we know that the Cultists know that Phat is the Priest? [...well, it's certainly true now that they'll know.] Or is this simply our best guess as to why Phat was attacked last night? (I know it's a reasonable explanation, but I'd like to make sure I've understood the situation clearly, especially since that would affect where we look given contact tracing. (Oh Lord, I'm making them sound like a disease now.))

3. Bort. I'd like to know your opinions on the Duke/Duchess. I know you want to protect their identity, but what about just in vague terms of where they are on your current suspicion list?

And still, I will sing your praises, O my Lover.

We met as the sun died, in the shadows of the old city.
Look!—the shadows—like falling ashes—in the ruined city.

To me, your smile was exalted; the exhalation of the Divine,
I’ll pray to You as the sun goes down in the fallen city.

What do I remember most? Of these days of poetry and wine?
Yesterday, we were gods; no exiles in the crumbling city.

How did he first approach you? With paens and with honeyed verses?
Without your love, I’m just an poet, wandering the gods’ city.

In your name, a thousand of my verses adorn you, glittering
Between the jewelled necklace of the lake and the lost city.

Even the Enemy bowed his head to the Most Holy’s curse.
This, Kasimir, reflects your love: the cursed, tarnished city.

[the winter system]

Part 2 of my Annotated Player List:

MenE (Metacognition)

- Distrusts me for good reasons, can't really fault him for those. I explain bellow why my I'm acting the way I am. Lots of activity, good logic. 
Karlin (Surgebound Rainspren)

- Can't recall much activity.
Nathanael (Aonar Faileas)

- Unsure, might have to go back over posts. 
Sheon Idris (Seonid)

- Helpful suggestion in regards to "I am not converted" or "I was not attacked."
Tehen (twelfthrootoftwo)

- Not much bad or good here.
Won LenReen (Wonko the Sane)

- Not sure, had good reasons for what I asked about.
Liala (Luckat)

- Kinda lurking until pointed out, more activity good.

 

Why am I acting more analytical/less here?

I'm bored of watching analysis. During my time as a GM, I started wanting to say something. But I couldn't because I was the GM. So I want to overcompesate here. However, that's not how I normally play. So I've resisted saying much of importance because it's different from my normal incompetence playstyle. I didn't notice that my resistance to overanalyze was leading me to underanalyze. I've decided to explain so that you understand. 

[Haelbarde]

Suggestion for Claincy maybe. The way I see it, he kinda has a RED classification, but hasn't been super active. It wouldn't necessarily hurt discussion of he were absent for a cycle or two, and it would let us clear one of the experienced players.

@Kas, Re: Poison. That was my attempt to contact you and say, I sorta trust you, and am willing to work with you, without having access to a Seon. Also, I thought you'd be better able to find a use for it.

[Mckeedee123]

Arfear Quinn (Araris Valerian)

- I wasn't sure why Mckdee thought Araris and Orlok were lovers, actually. Either way, contributing quite a bit to discussion.

 

I thought so because Araris was keeping his vote on me without stating a reason for doing so. I decided that it was probably because he was trying to unconditionally defend Orlok that cycle, which would have meant he was uniquely aligned with him. I was completely wrong, of course, and my wrongness this game is really starting to bum me out. That being said, I think I've made my thought process there pretty clear.

[the winter system]

Ah, thanks. I didn't see where you explained that.

[Haelbarde]

For one who claims to not want to be on my list, you're doing an awful lot to poke me at every opportunity. I'm starting to see your disclaimers for what they really are: a weak attempt at covering your true desires to be on every list I have. (Not that I have lists, and even if I did, I wouldn't fall to such clear manipulation.....or would I?)

Does that include your list of people to whom you would give cookies?

[twelfthrootoftwo]

For that reason, I'd like our discussion to expand out to people it'd be good to have Phat scan

I propose Meta. I've been suspicious of him for a while, and a few things from the last few days have strengthened that:

 

 

 

Just being a Convert isn't enough for me to vote for Zas. We want the converts to be able to come forward, so killing them just because sounds like a horrible idea! No, this sounds more like a trick (by Wonko or Phatt, I don't know) to try to get someone other than Maill lynched, so that's where my vote is going!

I stared at that for a good five minutes trying to figure out why it seemed so wrong. The first bit (about not lynching converts just because) is fine. But deciding Wonko's claim was a ruse...It's done emotively, with no real weight of logic behind it. I suspect this post was meant to stop Phat (and Wonko) getting soft-confirmed, leaving enough suspicion there to avoid us creating strategies around him as our priest.

 

Wilson, you like to consider wording, tone and such things. I'd be interested in your opinion on that post.

 

You do realize that it is now a Night turn, right? If everything that has been said is correct, you're basically offering yourselves up to allow the Cultists a double kill. You realize this, yes? Now, if we have two Warriors, they'd have to be stuck on you two or play the game of, "I know, you know" with them on which (if any) of you are defended or not....

Kas was quite clearly trolling there, and Snoopy is correct in saying it would be rather bizarre for him to put an exposed vote on his Lover. So why take it so seriously, and push our Warriors towards protecting them? It reads to me as an attempt to distract the Warriors from protecting Phat.

 

Maybe this would work better in the lynch discussion, but Meta is a valuable enough village player that I'm reluctant to push a lynch without more serious evidence, which a scan would provide.

 

Edit: the Blue Text Awakener returns!

Edited June 2, 2015 by twelfthrootoftwo

[little wilson]

 

Wilson, you like to consider wording, tone and such things. I'd be interested in your opinion on that post.

 

I do remember thinking that something was off when I first read it, but since I agreed with the first bit of it and I was trying to write up a different post at the same time and do two or three other things, I wasn't able to think about most of those posts done in the last couple hours yesterday. But I'd say you're right. At that point in time, I was sort of writing Meta off as being an eliminator since he'd been so helpful, but I am (and was) far more certain about Wonko and Phatt, and while I disagree with the reasoning behind lynching Zas when it's a simple thing to figure out Zas' alignment, I don't think they meant it as a ruse to distract from the Maill lynch (which was a mislynch anyway, and we probably should've been able to figure that out since no one was contesting it at all).

 

A part of me is also looking at the use of exclamation points, particularly in that last sentence, but Meta loves exclamation points, so that's probably a pointless thing to look at.

 

Kas was quite clearly trolling there, and Snoopy is correct in saying it would be rather bizarre for him to put an exposed vote on his Lover. So why take it so seriously, and push our Warriors towards protecting them? It reads to me as an attempt to distract the Warriors from protecting Phat.

 

Maybe this would work better in the lynch discussion, but Meta is a valuable enough village player that I'm reluctant to push a lynch without more serious evidence, which a scan would provide.

 

And that is another very excellent point. Blast, I'm cursing myself at writing Meta off because if I hadn't, that would've red-flagged me. As it was, I just sort of went "Oh, he's just getting distracted by Kas' trolling" and I'm just sitting here ignoring it a la Kas' Wit trolling (seriously, though: anyone who's trying to figure out Kas right now, don't even bother. He excels at trolling in the thread, and it's a little pointless to attempt figuring out until we have more information. If nothing else, someone can vote for him tomorrow and we'll know if he's a Dula or if Snoopy's vote was cancelled because he's a Lover or he's lying about the Keeper vote). But, yeah. It's obvious that the warriors need to focus on Phatt rather than two people who may or may not be Lovers.

 

I will second that suggestion for poisoning Meta.

[Claincy]

I disagree. The warriors focus should be on Phatt, though if a warrior has a seon and hasn't used it already, it would much appreciated if they'd get in touch with me. If both have seons, we can direct their protection better. It would be redundant to have Phatt protected twice tonight since that would leave him open for a hit tomorrow. The cultists could well just not even bother hitting at him tonight because they figure he'll be protected.

You appear to be disagreeing with something other than what I said. Phatt is obviously the priority to protect, that's not even a question or point for discussion and I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't what I was talking about.

-It is entirely possible that we have 2 warriors, we might not, but we very well might.

-Warriors cannot defend the same person 2 nights in a row.

 

So the warrior/s will definitely be defending someone other than Phatt at some point and that is what I was talking about. Apparently that wasn't as clear as I thought it was.The smaller the number of other particularly good targets the better the odds that the warrior/s will guess right.

 

So yeah, I don't think talking about vote manipulation roles when villagers aren't supposed to be using them right now anyway will hurt much. On the contrary, it could help find an eliminator or two.

I think you are fixating a little too much on this. I agree that villagers should hold off using vote manipulation roles in the early game to make it easier to pick out cultists. But I seriously doubt that everyone agrees, and if someone disagrees and has a vote manipulation role I further doubt they would express their disagreement in the thread as it would be quite likely to get them killed. Further, we're moving into day four. We are past the early game and frankly at this point if I had a vote manipulation role and reason to use it I would probably do so and I would use it earlier if I had sufficient reason to do so. Sufficient reason being either a lover matching or particularly strong reasons to suspect that someone was innocent who was about to be lynched. With the caveat that I would have to think that my manipulation could make a difference, which isn't the case when there is a large bandwagon anyhow.

 

I'm not saying that the prince/ss isn't a cultist, the evidence so far suggests that they are. Nor am I saying that we shouldn't have a careful eye on the vote manipulation that happens and why it happens. But I don't think we can say with such authority that villagers shouldn't be using their vote manipulation powers beyond this point. (Just clarifying that to avoid being misunderstood again.)

 

Edit: I meant to say, but forgot. I like this poisoning plan Meta, Bort, (or yourself actually, it would be good to know if we could trust you) all seem like good options. (Or me if you like.)

Edited June 2, 2015 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Metacognition]

I'd really rather not be poisoned you guys, just an FYI and not for the reasons you would think! Also, I have a history of taking Kas far more seriously than he really is. See MR4 where I tried to call his bluff and wound up dead for it when we were both on the same team. 

[Kipper]

So, GMs, a question for you:

If I as a Keeper of the Secret Tunnels voted in thread for the Dula, but used my secret vote on someone else, what would show up?

Or in other terms:

Bob is Keeper, Reginald is Dula, Frank is a normal townsperson.

In thread, Bob votes Reginald

Bob uses his secret vote on Frank.

[Haelbarde]

Edit: I meant to say, but forgot. I like this poisoning plan Meta, Bort, (or yourself actually, it would be good to know if we could trust you) all seem like good options. (Or me if you like.)

I believe that Wonko said that phattemer scanned and cleared Wilson before being taken by the Shaod. So, if you don't trust that, sending Wilson in to be scanned isn't going to be useful.

 

He has scanned Wilson and Ren as loyal.

 

Zas is a convert. they have three votes on him, as it's either him or Neo, and they figured why help the Gyorn. So I will switch my vote to Zas.

Link

[Claincy]

I believe that Wonko said that phattemer scanned and cleared Wilson before being taken by the Shaod. So, if you don't trust that, sending Wilson in to be scanned isn't going to be useful.

 

Link

I was referring to Kas. I apologise for that being unclear.

[Haelbarde]

I was referring to Kas. I apologise for that being unclear.

Oh, that makes sense. 

[Tulir]

This night is now over, writeup is coming

[Tulir]

Day Four: Second Strike

The crowd slowly dispersed from the Court after the disquieting news of killing yet another innocent man.  They started heading to their chambers, but a small group was much slower in leaving.  The leader nodded, and they left as well.

 

The failure of the previous night’s ritual and sacrifice was a very bad omen for them.  Each ritual needed to be completed perfectly on time, and the last one failed.  WIth that in mind, they had decided to resort to more mundane methods of killing, simple violence.

 

They waited, and when everyone had fallen into what sleep they could get, they moved in on their target.  As a group, armed with swords for a quick murder, they attempted to break down their target’s door.  It didn’t budge.  

 

They tried again and again, first quietly, but as the door remained impervious to their assault, the assassins started hacking at it with their swords and throwing weight at it.

 

“Who’s there?”  They heard a guard call, and immediately they threw everything they had at the door.  Inside the room came a terrible cracking noise, and the door gave way, but the guards were too close now.  The assassins fled, to hide for another day.

 

The room’s occupant looked down at their floor, and lying on it, cut apart and shattered, was the beautiful pendent.

 

--

 

The ruckus from down the halls had been enough to awaken Borter.  He knew he wasn’t going to be able to sleep again soon, so he decided to investigate.  He opened his door in time to see guards rush pass.

 

One stopped and turned to Borter.  “Did you happen to see--  Merciful Domi!” he said before backing away.

 

NOT ME PLEASE NOT BE WHAT I THINK IT IS, Borter panicked, and rushed for a mirror

 

Someone was attacked by the cultists, but was saved by a Korathi Pendant!

Borter was taken by the Shaod!

Day Four has begun!  It will end in around 47 hours!

 

Updated Player List:

1. Edrab Leah (Haelbarde)

2. Jain (Lightsworn Panda)

3. Locke (OrlokTsubodai) Citizen

4. Kae (Winter Cloud)

5. Mainem (Mckeedee123)

6. Gerald Hobbes (Kipper)

7. King Walin (spencer12347) Debtor

8. Maisao (Mailliw73) Citizen

9. Clankii (Clanky)

10. Edaan (Alvron)

11. Dow (dowanx)

12. Arfear Quinn (Araris Valerian)

13. Hene Bata (The Honey Badger)

14. Duke Pifferdan (Emerald 101)

15. Clancy (lord Claincy Ffnord)

16. Kaian (Kasimir)

17. Redodaa Tialehe (ostrichofevil)

18. Kiireon (little wilson)

19. Fernarnia (Feligon) Keeper of the Secret Tunnels

20. MenE (Metacognition)

21. Karlin (Surgebound Rainspren)

22. Nathanael (Wyrmhero)

23. Sheon Idris (Seonid)

24. Tehen (twelfthrootoftwo)

25. Won LenReen (Wonko the Sane)

26. Liala (Luckat)

 

Elantrians

1. Diren (Zas678)-Hoed

2. Neo (neodymium)

3. Riingar (Renegade)

4. Sienene (phattemer)

5. Borter Clams (Bort)

 

Pinch Hitters

1. Wyrmhero

2. A Smart Guy

3. Emerald 101

4. Silverblade5

Edited June 3, 2015 by Tulir

[Haelbarde]

Game Quicklinks

• Signups
• Day 1 - Fel/Mek Lynched
• Night 1 - Orlok Killed, Zas converted
• Day 2 - Spencer Lynched
• Night 2 - Cultist and Gyorn targets protected by pendants. Phattemer allegedly cultist target.
• Day 3 - Mailliw73 Lynched
• Night 3 - Bort was poisoned, someone else saved by cultists
• Day 4

---

Well, presuming that's poison that took Bort. And seriously, there was another Pendant? We've burnt through so many in the last two days...

Edited June 2, 2015 by Haelbarde

[little wilson]

There was another pendant, yes. Orlok sent it to me Day One. And I thank him heartily for it, because I knew I'd be getting attacked eventually (probably tonight), and I was right.

 

It would be nice if we can get the results of Phatt's scan asap, since I'd really like to lynch one of the Cultists. I'm not a fan of nearly dying.

[Kipper]

So:

1. We need Phatt's scan.

2. Convert needs to reveal.

3. Jindo Warriors need to switch protections. Obviously we don't know if they both protected Phatt (and if someone does know, they SHOULD BY NO MEANS REVEAL), but if not, the one who didn't protect Phatt should do it this Night. Repeat.

4. Phatt scans Bort next Night, but that may be getting too far ahead.

5. Someone gives Kipper a bag or crate of jellybeans. (I'm partial to Starburst Jellybeans )

Did I miss anything?

Edit: If anyone wants contact, let me know and I'll work it out.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Kipper