Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Haelbarde]

So after twelve hours of server downtime what's the deal with this cycle. Think the server went down near to the end of the night cycle, but are you taking that as end of cycle, or are you going to give people a grace period in case they left things to the last minute?

[Herowannabe]

So after twelve hours of server downtime what's the deal with this cycle. Think the server went down near to the end of the night cycle, but are you taking that as end of cycle, or are you going to give people a grace period in case they left things to the last minute?

 

Yay! We're back! Due to the extended Night phase I'm NOT going to be giving anyone a time extension. The Day 3 phase will be a little shortened, but that's alright. It seems like many players wasted no time discussing and accusing during the night, so a full 48+ hours is probably not needed.

 

The Writeup is written and will be posted in a few minutes, once I go through the PMs and make sure all actions were accounted for. If anyone has any last minute actions or PMs to send, get them in now!

 

EDIT: And, your grace period is up! Night 2 is closed! Day 3 post imminent!

Edited May 30, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Herowannabe]

Day 3: Die Another Day

All throughout the palace, people did their best to sleep. Some tossed and turned, restless from the terrible events of the past few days. Others snored soundly. And some found that they couldn’t sleep at all.

Others still, didn’t even try. They gathered in an unused room on a floor far below the King’s court. Each of the figures was cloaked in a black robe, save for one- their captive, a young serving maid, was bound and gagged and weeping through her gag.

Making no delay, the robed figures dragged their captive onto the altar, and tied her down. They formed a circle around the altar and began chanting. The cultist leading the group took out a wickedly curved dagger, and drew it across the woman’s shoulder. She let out a muffled cry, but the wound wasn’t deep. The lead touched one finger to the blood, and used it to begin drawing symbols and patterns on the altar. They were ancient Jeskeri symbols, used to indicate the target of their ritual.

Last night they had used more mundane means to kill their target victim- a knife to the heart. Tonight they had resorted to Jeskeri rituals. Both were risky, but for different reasons.

When the time was right, the lead cultist positioned the dagger over the maid’s heart, slowly pressing down… and found something resisting the dagger. The cultist pressed harder. Something pressed back. Their victim was shielded somehow. The robed figures glanced at each other warily. The timing of the ritual had to be precise, and their window of opportunity would soon pass.

The lead cultist leaned on the dagger, driving down with more force. Beads of sweat began beading on the cultist’s forehead. The cultist drove down harder, grunting with exertion. Something seemed to snap, and the dagger drove down through the woman’s heart and into the wood of the altar below. Whatever had been shielding their victim had been shattered, but the ritual had been ruined in the process. They would not be able to take their victim’s life this night.

Elsewhere, another figure knelt on the floor, panting as sweat dripped from their forehead. Whatever force had been attacking the figure had finally abated, thanks to Domi’s great mercy. The figure slowly unclenched their fist, looking down at it. The Korathi pendant that had been there was shattered into pieces, the edges blackened, as if burned.



Someone was attacked by the cultists, but was saved by a Korathi Pendant!

Nobody was taken by the Shaod!

Day 3 begins!

***Despite 17th Shard being out of commission for the past 12+ hours, The phase will end at the usual time, 9:00PM MDT on Sunday, May 31st.

 

Updated Player List

1. Edrab Leah (Haelbarde)

2. Jain (Lightsworn Panda)

3. Locke (OrlokTsubodai) Citizen

4. Kae (Winter Cloud)

5. Mainem (Mckeedee123)

6. Borter Clams (Bort)

7. Gerald Hobbes (Kipper)

8. King Walin (spencer12347) Debtor

9. Maisao (Mailliw73)

10. Clankii (Clanky)

11. Edaan (Alvron)

12. Dow (dowanx)

13. Arfear Quinn (Araris Valerian)

14. Hene Bata (The Honey Badger)

15. Duke Pifferdan (Lord Pifferdoo)

16. Clancy (lord Claincy Ffnord)

17. Kaian (Kasimir)

18. Redodaa Tialehe (ostrichofevil)

19. Kiireon (little wilson)

20. Fernarnia (Feligon) Keeper of the Secret Tunnels

21. MenE (Metacognition)

22. Karlin (Surgebound Rainspren)

23. Nathanael (Aonar Faileas)

24. Sheon Idris (Seonid)

25. Tehen (twelfthrootoftwo)

26. Won LenReen (Wonko the Sane)

27. Liala (Luckat)

Elantrians

1. Diren (Zas678)

2. Neo (neodymium)

3. Riingar (Renegade)

4. Sienene (phattemer)

Pinch Hitters

1. Wyrmhero

2. The Only Joe

3. A Smart Guy

4. Emerald 101

[Kasimir]

Ouch. To be fair, I suppose this balances out with the extended night cycle we got. Even so, I'm inclined to expedite things a little at the moment. I had originally intended to start out the cycle with a list tracking player activity. Unfortunately, pages 20-23 of the locked thread are down for me, citing a database error. I suspect it's an artefact of the issues lingering from when 17S crashed because it couldn't take knowing the Lord Ruler has had children

 

(I have not yet reported this and am not inclined to, since the database error is irregularly generated by other pages across 17S, though this is about 3 in a sample size of 5. As a result, I figure the admin knows and I don't like to bother tech people when they're busy fixing things with more of the same )

 

Tldr; while my list is currently a WIP, I'd like to start things off by flagging both Ostrich and Piff for extreme inactivity. I'd also like to clarify with the GMs if it will be publicly made known if any inactives have, as of this cycle, been replaced by pinch-hitters. In a previous clarification, I was informed that it would take a total of two cycles of inactivity for replacement to happen. I have not found a single post from Ostrich and it is Day Three. Has he been replaced, and is that confirmable by the GM?

 

Let's get down to business, people. Tempus fugit, carpe diem, seize the day, gather ye blossoms while ye may, etcetera.

 

-

 

Kaian tried to hold back a yawn as he emerged from the guest room he'd been assigned by the guards. He hadn't slept well, and the night had seemed to drag on for the longest period of time, after the discussions had ended and everyone had gone to bed.

 

To make things worse, he had a most startling dream: in which everything had abruptly gone dark, silenced. He'd cried out to Lord Jaddeth-Who-Slumbered but there was no response, and he, too, had been swallowed by the void.

 

The first vestiges of daylight entering his room had almost been a relief, as he sat bolt-upright and tried to forget about that dream. The ferret was busy nosing at a few containers on the writing desk, searching for food. The snuffed candle swayed as it nudged it slightly.

 

He needed a name for the ferret, Kaian thought, crossing over to the desk. On it was the lists he'd been scribbling, before exhaustion had overtaken him and he'd gotten some rest. He sighed. None of these were going to be helpful now; not in their incomplete state. He smiled slightly. Who was he to think they would be helpful, in any case? He was just an ex-krondet, fled from the monastery. None of those had focused on finding killers on their midst; only the teachings of Holy Jaddeth and discipline and obedience.

 

"Come on," he said, scooping the wriggling ferret into his hands. They wouldn't have allowed me to keep him, back there, he thought, as he left.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Kasimir

[Herowannabe]

Kasimir, on 30 May 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

I'd also like to clarify with the GMs if it will be publicly made known if any inactives have, as of this cycle, been replaced by pinch-hitters. In a previous clarification, I was informed that it would take a total of two cycles of inactivity for replacement to happen. I have not found a single post from Ostrich and it is Day Three. Has he been replaced, and is that confirmable by the GM?

It will be very much so made publicly known when a pinch-hitter steps in for another player. However, at this time, I can confirm that nobody has been inactive for the past 2 cycles. Activity can consist of posting in the thread and/or responding to PMs.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Herowannabe

[Araris Valerian]

Well, I guess that is a good reason to vote for these people. If they have time to send PMs then they should have time to play. Presumably, whoever had the pendant knows who they are, so that is some useful info that we could use in the lynch discussion. I'm not too sure about who to call out right now, although I can see pages 21 and 23, just not 22. I guess I will vote for Pifferdoo, who failed to respond yesterday to Meta calling him out. Since he must have used a PM, perhaps whoever communicated with him could give us an update there until Piff comes out himself.

Also, I noted that Wilson responded to my post about the Gyorn yesterday. By now there have probably been three conversions. One of those people might now have seen the thread or their PM yet due to the website being down. However, the other two, if they are villagers or even if they are cultists, probably would have revealed in the thread if they could. It is quite possible that the Gyorn is only converting Elantrians so that we don't focus on him. I can see why a convert would be reluctant to reveal their conversion if they are also a lover. However, anyone that doesn't reveal their status now will be even more suspect when we do end up getting a list from somebody that isn't. I would also like to point out that, while somewhat helpful to the village, killing converts neither helps find the Gyorn nor is useful for hunting Cultists.

I guess this is a decent post, and life is calling. I'll be back later.

[Kasimir]

Well, I guess that is a good reason to vote for these people. If they have time to send PMs then they should have time to play. Presumably, whoever had the pendant knows who they are, so that is some useful info that we could use in the lynch discussion. I'm not too sure about who to call out right now, although I can see pages 21 and 23, just not 22. I guess I will vote for Pifferdoo, who failed to respond yesterday to Meta calling him out. Since he must have used a PM, perhaps whoever communicated with him could give us an update there until Piff comes out himself.

I should note that I have further clarified the issue with Hreo. He has ruled that activity in docs does not constitute 'activity'. However, responding to the game PM from the GM does. So all our seemingly inactive people have either been in a PM conversation with a Seon-holder or responded to Hreo's PM (and not even necessarily to send in orders.) The latter is less detectable unless you happen to be one of the poor slontzes hovering on the community page and checking for PM activity I do not recommend this (see: life.)

 

I'd echo the call for the Korathi pendant person to step forward, although I had hoped to see if they would do it of their own accord without being asked to. Unfortunately, that window has now closed with the first call. Whoever you are, you don't have a pendant anymore anyway, you might very well get protection, and more importantly, knowing who Team Evil targeted could be very helpful in looking at the victimology and working from there

[Metacognition]

Today, MenE's duty was windows. He'd always loved cleaning the windows. He liked how the rooms brightened up, even just slightly, after he was done. It was like he was shining a light into the darkness. 

 

Kaian (likely southern born, judging from the general loose-ness of his gait, but it was hidden underneath a nervous twitch. This was someone who had seen pain) walked past, likely trying to find some food for that rodent of his. He treated that ferret with more love and attention than most people treated their spouses! That got MenE thinking about some of the things Kaian had said recently; mostly about those that were even still hiding in the shadows. While MenE, himself, was quite suspicious of Duke Pifferdan and Redodaa hadn't spoken up yet, it seemed a little preemptive to be trying to drive the room to them. They (likely responded to the PM that the GM's sent at the beginning of the game and that's it.) likely wouldn't even get anything out of them. If they hadn't spoken up by now, it was unlikely they'd speak up at all. Now if they were still silent by tomorrow, then that would be indicative of their silence being part of a larger conspiracy. After all, didn't Duke Pifferdan speak up on the first day? Wasn't that what had attracted MenE's attention in the first place? Wouldn't that mean that Duke Pifferdan had been active during the timeframe? 

 

Arfear (woodsman by trade. The scraping around his knuckles were likely caused by tree bark) had brought up a good point though. What if one of those two had been hiding in the shadows and whispering quietly with someone else? If that was the case, then they were intentionally trying to remaining in the shadows. If someone could prove that, then MenE would definitely be shining a light into those hiding shadows! Perhaps those with Seons would be able to tell them more?

 

For himself, the more he replayed the events of the last few days in his head, the more suspicious he became of Kae. He kept talking without really providing much actual content. Plus, he seemed far more occupied with the Gyorn than finding the Cultists. To MenE, that seemed like a distraction tactic to him. Unfortunately, Kae didn't seem to be around for him to try to get his thoughts out to the rest of the group. His suspicions there would have to wait. 

 

The rest of his list consisted of Clancy, Mainem, Borter, and Jain. He'd have to go into detail about why he was suspicious of each of them in the future. After he finished cleaning a few more windows perhaps. 

 

---

 

Where the heck is everyone? Did the servers being down really throw everything off that badly? And we have a shortened day? Come on people, we need to kick this discussion into high gear! 

Edited May 30, 2015 by Metacognition

[Kipper]

Personally, yes, it did throw me off. The time I actually had to look at this was destroyed by the server going down.

1. Convert, please come forward. As Kas said, you will be looked at with extreme suspicion later on if you do not. It was probably an Elantrian again, IMO.

2. Person who got attacked, please come forward. Again, as Kas said, victimology is important.

3. Kas, I'm voting for you because you had no meme on that last post. I am offend. Jk. Kas.

I honestly have nothing more to say, as Kas took all of my points while I was at a friend's graduation party.

Edit: 150 views, 6 replies. Really guys?

Edited May 31, 2015 by Kipper

[Seonid]

I don't have a lot to say, but I'll try to be productive.

 

It is, I suppose, possible that the person with the Korathi pendant was an inactive, or hasn't been on the thread since the changeover (perhaps confused by the server going down - that did wipe out most of the free time I had to catch up on this thread yesterday, even though it might have looked like I was a lot earlier...I left this page up while I went in to work, and then went to sleep right when I came home without checking it).

 

I have this sneaking suspicion that both the Cultists and the Gyorn are targeting Elantrians for right now, though. And I can't think of a single thing to do about it right now until we can get some Seon news out of that Colors-cursed place (if you'll excuse the mixed metaphors )

[Claincy]

Good that we didn't lose anyone, a little frustrating that we can't really learn anything from it till whoever it was speaks up. Though it could be that Seonid is right and the cultists targeted an Elantrian last night. If that was the case it probably wasn't Sienene as someone would have to have given him the pendant since last night which I suppose is possible, but seems unlikely.

 

I'm not in favour of killing Ostrich or Piff today as it is entirely possible that they responded to the GM PM day one and have been inactive since then. If that is the case and we wait one more cycle we will get someone more useful replacing them. If another cycle passes and they aren't replaced by a pinch hitter then we will know that they are or at least were active behind the scenes and the odds they are one of the cultists or the gyorn significantly increases. As things stand I think the odds of a complete inactive being a cultist are lower than the odds of an active or semi-active player being a cultist as they would have the other cultists trying to get them to be at least a little active and people are generally less likely to go inactive if they have an interesting role.

 

@Meta, your call for people to discuss would be a little better if you gave reasons for the other half of your suspicions

Though having said that I'm running out of time here (I've been trawling through the thread to try to refresh my memory and get a feel for how everyone is playing) so I don't have time to go into much detail myself. I'll post more when I get home again but just quickly:

-Still trying to work out if Jain is a villager who made a mistake or two or a cultist who made a mistake or two

-I've noticed that Hene Bata seems to be slipping under the radar. They've been active but haven't contributed much to the discussion and, (unless I missed it) haven't yet expressed suspicion towards anyone. Most of their posts that I recall have been about what we should discuss, without actually discussing much.

 

I'll be back on in a few hours and have the time to write more then.

[Mailliw73]

Sorry for my recent inactivity, guys. I graduated on Thursday and have been almost constantly busy since then. So I'm kinda behind on the game a bit, but I've skimmed over most everything. I won't be too active this cycle either, but will be trading off to a pinch-hitter after this cycle is over, since I'll be gone for three weeks. 

 

First, I'd like to ask Wonko about the information from the Elantrian he was supposed to contact. Did anything of relevance get shared?

 

Second, Honey Badger is where my vote is going for now. I might not be able to get on to change it, but if I see reason to and have time, I will. Our PM didn't assuage any of my suspicions of him. He only asked questions of me and also seemed to be trying to play the newbie card, and after Kas did that in LG5, I'm automatically suspicious of that.

[The Honey Badger]

First of all @Claincy, as you pointed out yes I don't discuss much. Part of that problem is that, as Mailliw pointed out, I am a relatively new player, and one of those three games I was an eliminator. Do you expect me to be able to take notes and strategize like Wilson or Kasimir. If you want me to play like that, give some advice. I would love to do that, and I would love to be a big help, unfortunately I don't know how. If you know any helpful tips on strategizing, tell me, I want to know. 

 

@Malliw's comments- In our PM, I offered an information trade. A common tactic, everyone gets something and hopefully, the eliminators tie themselves in a knot. I don't understand where the "newbie" card was played. I just offered a trade. What do you want me to say in PMs, seriously tell me?

 

If you want me to add to the discussion, I don't have anything to add. Tommorow I will try to scan through and begin note taking, I don't have a bunch of free time for that. Then I might be able to recognize patterns. I'll get back to you guys on that tommorow.

[Haelbarde]

@Meta: My timezone meant the server came up a little after midnight, letting me post before going to bed. I was then out all morning today. 

 

But anyway. I can say I didn't have the pendant, not that helps us much. 

 

Wonko, managed to get in touch with Elantris yet?

 

I'll be interested to see the results of today's voting, seeing as we had a Duke/Duchess use their ability. I guess that's discussion for next cycle though...

 

Bah... I think I need to sit down, review the game so far and compose lists of how trustworthy I think people are - currently pulling blanks on who I'd put a vote on.

[Alvron]

I'm voting for Maill.  He has called out several players with little or nothing to base it on.  Some of his suspicions were twisted so that it fit what he was trying to say.  Overall I feel that he is trying to force suspicion onto others.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Maill, my and Kas' concerns about you 'tying up the votes' are still unanswered. And now I would also like to hear more of your side of the story in the PM with Badger, since information exchanges are a strategy you've used yourself.

 

Meta, what made you give reasons for suspecting Winter, but not Claincy or Mek?

 

As a general reminder to Seon holders/Elantrians, there's more to gain from your PMs than just Cultist/Gyorn targets. What do the Elantrians think about some of the divisive players (Jain and Bort come to mind)? Any suspicions? What are their opinions on the late bandwagons? Essentially, what would they be posting, if they could?

[Claincy]

First of all @Claincy, as you pointed out yes I don't discuss much. Part of that problem is that, as Mailliw pointed out, I am a relatively new player, and one of those three games I was an eliminator. Do you expect me to be able to take notes and strategize like Wilson or Kasimir. If you want me to play like that, give some advice. I would love to do that, and I would love to be a big help, unfortunately I don't know how. If you know any helpful tips on strategizing, tell me, I want to know. 

I have no expectations of you playing like Wilson or Kasimir, that would be totally unreasonable not just as a matter of experience but also rather major time commitments. I rarely have the time or energy to go to that level of detail myself. Notes are also optional and I often don't take them myself, rarely have time to do them properly.

 

All that said. 3 games is more than sufficient to be involved in the discussion. Multiple people have already done suspicious things, some more than others, and have been called out on it in the thread. Do you think Maill is suspicious as Alvron and twelfthrootoftwo do? What about Kae or Jain or dowanx. You don't have to be right, more often than not we get it wrong. But the more people who speak up saying who they think is suspicious the higher the chance that we get the right ones. So tell us what you think

 

The reason I voted for you is that avoiding voting for other players while still remaining active in the thread can be a quite effective way for a spiked to stay under the radar. Additionally when players don't voice their suspicions they don't really help us catch the cultists.

 

Personally I think:

-dowanx is still a little suspicious but I don't blame him for the day 2 bandwagon

-Maill is being less helpful than I expected, not sure if that's irl stuff limiting his activity or no

-People are calling out Wonko but also, everyone else who has a Seon, have any of you contacted Elantris yet, what's going on?

-Some part of me wonders why Wilson hasn't posted for a bit but that's really just paranoia, I don't really think she's a cultist.

-Bort? maybe, still considering, some of the arguments about him being a cultist have felt decidedly shaky

 

My vote stays where it is for now. I may or may not have opportunity to post again tomorrow before the end of the day. So apologies to everyone who's actually posting, I'm not apologising to everyone who isn't

[Kipper]

Happy Birthday, Wonko!

[Kasimir]

I have no expectations of you playing like Wilson or Kasimir, that would be totally unreasonable not just as a matter of experience but also rather major time commitments. I rarely have the time or energy to go to that level of detail myself. Notes are also optional and I often don't take them myself, rarely have time to do them properly.

Are you suggesting I have no life, Claincy? Because y'know, you'd actually be quite right. I play Sanderson Elimination to procrastinate off work (and to switch my brain off, which kind of explains a lot of the questionable decisions and posts I make), and sometimes my procrastinator tendencies get out of control. (See: your thesis is your life.) So to be fair, I really should be less active than I am now, huh.

[Thesis before procrastination, research before slacking, work before play. I will unite instead of divide, Supervisor. I will bring different objections together. The Graduating Students shall rise again!]

Echoing the 'I don't take notes' aspect though. I'm more a pantser than a note-taker. Again, explains so much >>

Anyway, several things. First, I'd brought up Ostrich, in part because I'd seen him reading the thread a Turn or two ago. So when Hreo provided the clarification on the pinch-hitters, I figured it wouldn't be a bad thing to try shedding some light in that direction. Another reason was, I felt Bort and Jain had been talked to death the previous night and wanted to shift to something completely different for a bit. (See: Mek's "We will do all the things! That is just what is going to happen.") At this point, there is a possibility I may not be on again in time for rollover, so I'm not very keen on leaving my vote on him.

 

Second: I'm going to steal Seonid's brilliant idea and follow the M'Hael's lead in extending it here. I hereby affirm that I have neither been converted, nor attacked by the Cultists. I am therefore not the bearer of the shattered Korathi pendant.

 

Third, the person who was attacked has been strangely silent and I reckon it's been about 24 hours. I confess this makes me a little more willing to believe they are Arelish, simply because I imagine a Cultist pulling a WGG would be ridiculously excited to admit they'd been attacked right out the gate. (This doesn't entirely eliminate any suspicions I might have towards said person, though. No sense in being reckless.) At the same time, I really wish they'd come forward, because they're hanging on to information that would be useful to have. (Granted, they could be an inactive. At least we know for sure they cannot be an Elantrian unless--Hreo, could you confirm that no one who begins as an Elantrian could begin with a Korathi pendant please? (In essence, this question asks if the logic of the game means that if that person began with a Korathi pendant, that pre-game Shaod could not have hit them.))

 

Fourth, as there is a chance I might not get back before rollover, I'm going to put a vote on Kipper. Of all things, you miss the meme?! More seriously: I have thought about this. I'm not exactly happy with adding more fuel to the Hufflepuff-Maili lynch train. On the one hand, I agree that I am rather allergic to players playing the 'I'm new and lost' card. Yes, I played it in LG5. Ash and Binnt riffed off it on LG6. Phatt capitalised on it in QF6. And I know that it doesn't necessitate that the player is a Cultist faking it: they could genuinely be barely keeping afloat. At the same time, I have to balance that with the acknowledgement that Eliminator teams do not hesitate to cash in on newness or perceived newness, because we do tend to give newer players a free pass on weird stuff. Ultimately though, I don't feel strongly enough about things to choose to come down on Hufflepuff today.

 

Similarly, I'm not quite sure what to make of Maili. As Twei has said, I'm not exactly a fan of his vote-tying strategy: or at least, I'd like to know why. Presenting a tie seems to me to be only effective if there's going to remain a menu of options, allowing the vote manipulators the choice of lynch. If, by the time the lynch comes down, there's a clear leader--then why present a tie in the middle of the cycle? Especially when there has been a general consensus on lynching lurkers if push comes to shove? And what about debtors? Surely it must have occurred to you that a debtor would be unlikely to leave a tie standing for long? Despite all these questions, though, I don't feel certain enough, and I don't like leaving a lynch-deciding vote when there's a decent chance I mightn't be able to get back in time to deal with further developments.

 

So I'm instead going to put a vote on Jain. I get it that you said that at the point in time, it appeared to you that Wonko was about to be lynched by a two-vote majority. Fine. But that was 6:54PM on the 27th May. That's at least 16 hours to the lynch, and a lot of time. And it wasn't as if you were thinking you mightn't be back in time later on. Because you were: 5:44AM on the 28th of May. Throwing an extra vote on Wonko doesn't make sense in two ways: first, given your passing it off as because he wasn't "[responding] to [his] accusations", and second, given the high volatility of voting in the previous cycle and a decent amount of time to rollover, that state of affairs doesn't seem particularly stable. Even if it wasn't, why close off the lynch early and block further discussion? Something about this just seems a bit strange. And I get that it could be a mistake and it's therefore annoying that everyone is chasing you for it. But all the same, I have to admit that it seems a lot like trying to discreetly smuggle a vote in on a lynch-wagon. [besides, you called out Wonko for bandwagoning, but isn't throwing a vote on an ongoing 'two-lynch margin' train just more of the same--with only a difference in degree rather than kind?]

 

This is the best I have right now. If I'm wrong about you, Jain, then I'm sorry, for all that's worth.

[little wilson]

I support the lynch on Maill. My reasons for voting for him yesterday were mostly based on gut. And then he said this:
 

Wilson, you're doing this again. No offense, but you're not that great at catching me when I'm evil.  You tend to do the opposite: Lynch me when I'm good.

 
And I got worried he was actually telling the truth, so I retracted it. Plus, I wanted him to contact me so I could get a better gauge on him via a PM. He did not and has not contacted me this entire game, which I find somewhat odd, since in other games that we're both in and he's good, he contacts me within the first two cycles. Granted, these are games with open communication, which this is not, but I would think he'd at least be somewhat interested in my take on things. Unless he's worried that I'll read him like a book and know he's evil.
 
As it turns out, I didn't need him to contact me. I was contacted by somebody else. This other person had been in a PM with him. I'm not going to say whether it was Throat or Mushroom or perhaps another that contacted Maill directly rather than him contacting them, but this person told me that Maill was oddly agreeable with everything this person said, which reminded them of LG10, in which Maill was evil. Maill phished for information on people this person could trust (names and/or roles), and then didn't offer anything he hadn't already given the thread.
 
Now, Maill often tries to gather information, but he normally has something to offer outside of what he's given the thread. Bartering information is what he does. But most of the games he's good in, he doesn't actively seek for sensitive information like roles. If he discovers, he discovers. But he doesn't put a formal request ou for those who want to be contacted to speak up so he can get in touch with them, when he knows that there's a high amount of role-claiming going on in the PMs. I think he did that so he could get more role-claims.
 
This has been said many times thus far, but I feel it needs saying again: Do not role-claim in PMs if you are a Citizen. Not unless you are 100% certain that the person you are talking to is a citizen as well, and even then, you probably shouldn't do it unless you're the Priest and you've checked the person you're talking to. And even that's something you should probably avoid because you have no idea who the person you're talking to is talking to and what they might reveal accidentally to someone else who may or may not be evil.
 
Back to Maill though. My contact was worried that they might die last night. They were positive that if Maill was evil, s/he would be attacked. To my knowledge, this person was not the person attacked. If they were, I have a feeling they would've spoken up by now. This lack of attack does not exonerate Maill though. I think Team Evil is playing a massive I Know You Know with us. And that brings me to someone who I'm almost certain is Maill's comrade if Maill is indeed evil: Aonar.
 
Maill's response to my vote on him last cycle threw me off since Evil!Maill doesn't normally say things like that. Evil!Aonar on the other hand....Aonar would absolutely say something like that, and if Maill was wondering in the evil doc about how to get rid of my vote, Aonar would encourage a statement like that. With emoticon and everything. I expect those types of comments out of Aonar. Maill, not so much.
 
Anyway, while reading back through the thread, I came across this post: 
 

Hmm... Locke is an interesting choice. While he proved himself plenty capable during QF7, was he really worth a first day hit? Why not Meta, or Wilson, or Vron, or any other potentially dangerous player? Perhaps because Locke had gotten close to the truth somewhere? Perhaps because he had been far off? Perhaps because they wanted suspicion cast on to, or away from, those who voted against him? Perhaps because one of the more experience players is evil? Perhaps because they want us to think they're evil? ...Perhaps even because they are, or are suspected to be, Lovers or Pirates paired with Cultists?

 
For some context, he said this after we'd all pretty much agreed to not discuss the Orlok lynch because there wasn't anything to be gained from it. But Aonar still decides to speak on it. Why? Well, initially this post didn't strike me as particularly off, probably because he's been trolling me in an OOG PM for a while, so I'm used to it. But re-reading it in the light that he could possibly be evil? Everything clicks into place. Aonar loves the I Know You Know gambit. If he's evil, I have a feeling they killed Orlok for the sole purpose to get us wondering why. Why Orlok? That makes no sense. But we'd try to work it out anyway. And that's precisely why it's a perfect hit for Aonar. He gets a certain amount of glee when he's able to get into people's heads with his gambits and tricks. He'd advocate a hit on Orlok because it makes no sense. And then when we didn't discuss it as much as they wanted us to, he threw it out there with a random, rambling paragraph to remind us that Orlok was dead and we still don't know why.
 
I also find it interesting that here, he spoke of being suspicious of Mek due to Mek's frustration:
 

Mek is also suspicious, even though he takes a stance I for the most part agree with. It's how he's going about it that is what's striking an off note. There's honest vehemence there. It could just be frustration at being misunderstood over what seems a simple issue, and it could have to do with the fact he's strongly implied that he's a debtor. Or it could be both. However, he might be on the defensive for darker reasons, as well.

 
That last sentence. At a time when both Meta and I and probably others had pretty much cleared Mek, Aonar tries to cast doubt on him. I'm positive that Aonar knew that that genuine frustration indicated that Mek was innocent. Even if he wanted to express paranoia that Mek could've been faking the frustration, Good!Aonar wouldn't have worded it as "suspicion." Good!Aonar would say that Mek is probably good, but we shouldn't write off the idea that the frustration could be a ploy. Evil!Aonar doesn't benefit from saying something like that though. Team Evil wants us to suspect each other. They don't want us clearing people easily. If it looks like we are or we could, they'll want to call that reaction into question in the best way they can. 
 
 
I believe that Maill and Aonar are on Team Evil. If this is correct, it explains Aonar's focus on other high level threats, since these players are likely to be good (unless they're the gyorn), since having more than 2 highly experienced, dangerous players on Team Evil would be unbalanced (though that isn't to say there's not someone like Dow, Karlin, Mek/Fel, Kipper, or Winter on the team. I just doubt there's someone like Meta, Alv, or Claincy). Plus, Maill's actions are inconsistent with his past evil playstyle, but those same actions make a lot more sense if he's in a doc conspiring with Aonar.

[Herowannabe]

@Kasimir: unclear vote is unclear.

Your last post says you are casting a vote for 2 different players, both of whose names are highlighted different shades of red. Please clarify your post or neither vote will be counted.

[Kasimir]

Hreo: I was voting for Jain. I purpled Kipper's name in jest, so I assumed that it would not count as a legit vote. Apologies for any confusion.

[Clanky]

Maill, this is the best suspicion that we have at the moment. I don't have very much to contribute but I am also suspicious of Wonko. Main reason for that is his role claim as a vanilla Citizen when no-one was pressuring him to reveal it.  

[Herowannabe]

Hreo: I was voting for Jain. I purpled Kipper's name in jest, so I assumed that it would not count as a legit vote. Apologies for any confusion.

Thanks. The purple looked red-ish against the blue text.

[Kipper]

someone like Dow, Karlin, Mek/Fel, Kipper, or Winter on the team. I just doubt there's someone like Meta, Alv, or Claincy).

Well, first of all, thanks for making me feel like an utterly terrible player, Wilson. I know I've only played one game here, but in the intervening time, I did play a lot of mafia games elsewhere...

On to the discussion. I see Kasimir as suspicious. I'm not sure whether I want to vote for him or not, though. I have a couple reasons:

1. He's set himself up as the discussion leader, in my opinion. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing, depending on how one uses this position. Kas proceeded to set many criteria for what is a "useful" post, thereby discarding the opinions of people who don't follow that idea. (Note: If this is his normal playstyle, then I am probably wrong) You see, any of the more experienced players have a monopoly of sorts on the discussion. The experienced players are hardly ever voted on first by the riffraff. Take Mailliw, for instance. It took Alvron to vote for him, and then others followed. I am (sort of) scared to write this post, because I feel that I will be jumped on by Kas and bandwagoned. Anyway, that about sums up #1.

2. Stifling discussion of the Gyorn. Really? I've never understood the reasoning, even though the experienced have said it, but mainly Kas. The Gyorn's job is to be tricky with conversions. Obviously, he really only has two options, but do you think that us talking about it is going to change what he does? I would rather talk about an event now to understand it when it happens, rather than try to understand why it happened after the fact. I think it would benefit all of us to have more open discussion about the Cultists' and the Gyorn's plans. What else do we have to do?

3. Something about his posts just doesn't feel right to me. Just a feeling, so take that as you see fit.

All that said, I do not think Kasimir is a Cultist. I doubt that a Cultist would push for no discussion about the Gyorn. (And I just realized that a smart Cultist would, because we assume that they wouldn't...so I guess he could be a Cultist) I think that he is either the Gyorn, the Odiv, or a villager

Lastly, the experienced players need to stop denigrating everyone else's posts. Period. Just because people aren't as good at coming up with ideas for discussion doesn't mean that they aren't capable of understanding them. Take Clanky above me. All he did was agree with others that Mailliw is suspicious (Note: I townread Mailliw, for what it's worth). Is that a problem? No. But I'll bet people would still jump on him for just agreeing and not adding anything. His reasoning could have been the same as anybody else's, but if he comes to it later or simply agrees, bad things happen because of this "every post has to be useful by my standards" culture. No matter what Clanky does, if he wants to vote for Mailliw, he can be viewed as suspicious. It wasn't a useful post. He just agreed without discussing. He just repeated everything I said. Etc. Ah well. It probably won't stop, because reverse psychology, but it still irritates me.

Note: I'm better at clarifications than actually posting, so if you want a clarification, let me know.

Kas. Taking the plunge.