Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Araris Valerian]

Well, I thought I would bring a couple other people to the discussion. So last cycle, I voted for Jain after dismissing Clanky and Hael. I was pretty focused on what was going on in that particular lynch so I only checked the first two lynch discussions for their names being brought up, and there inactivity was explained and dismissed at that point. So I guess what I am saying is that I am still suspicious of Clanky because he was involved in the Mailliw lynch with basically no reasoning but before the lynch was sealed completely, so it wasn't really a vote for just tagging along, as I see it. As for Hael, who is the other person I brought up, I do think he has done a better job of participating (better than me recently), but I still find it interesting that he was worried about not being suspect by anyone, and that he recognized that his posts had little substance but kept doig it for a while anyway.

My current top suspects are:

1) Clanky

2) Jain

3) Hael

And I apologize about the post I made last cycle; it really should have looked a bit more like this one plus my analysis of Jain, who I still suspect because we don't really have any new info on him from last cycle.

[Metacognition]

MenE was a changed man after his time in Elantris. First and foremost, he no longer feared the Elantrians. The Shaod had taken their lives and cast upon them some terrible curses, but it hadn't taken their spirit. They were still people just trying to do the best they could with a horrible situation; much like everyone else right now. 

 

The other thing that had changed is that Merciful Domi has loosened the hold on his tongue. Perhaps it had something to do with getting taken by the Shaod or Domi's miraculous healing of him, but for the first time in his life, MenE could figure out how to get the words to come out of his head. It was a glorious feeling. 

 

Of course, Domi didn't just give out boons like that without reason. No, in this case, Domi needed MenE to be a conduit for Domi's grace and power. He could look deep into a person's heart and find out their true desires, no matter how they tried to hide it. And so Domi had tasked MenE with using this ability to find those that were unfaithful, the Gyorn and the Jesker Cultists. 

 

MenE was no longer tasked with cleaning the castle. Instead, he was adorned in the robes of his station as a Priest of Shu-Korath and he brought Domi's message of hope to everyone still locked in the castle. 

 

"Have faith," he would tell them. "Domi would not have us suffer needlessly. Ours is a holy task and as long as we stay strong in our faith, we will be successful."

 

There were some that seemed to shy away from him though; as if they didn't want the holy light of Domi to shine upon them. Those were the ones that were obviously in the most need of his light. 

 

And so, MenE looked into the heart of Jain, to see what seemed to vex him so. What he found was the crushing darkness of Shu-Dereth. It was so powerful, that MenE staggered back from it. This wasn't just the heart of a convert. No, this was the heart of a true believer! A Gyorn!

 

---

 

So I scanned Jain and sure enough, he's our Gyorn! I'll bet that he's already made his Odiv as well. In fact, right now, I'm pretty sure that it's Wilson. She started the votes for Karlin in the first place, perhaps as a chance to try to save Jain from being lynched? There is a few other pieces of evidence that this might be the case, but I'm not at liberty to share them at this moment. This is just my guess though and I'll be scanning Wilson again in the future to find out. 

[Wyrmhero]

So I scanned Jain and sure enough, he's our Gyorn! I'll bet that he's already made his Odiv as well. In fact, right now, I'm pretty sure that it's Wilson. She started the votes for Karlin in the first place, perhaps as a chance to try to save Jain from being lynched? There is a few other pieces of evidence that this might be the case, but I'm not at liberty to share them at this moment. This is just my guess though and I'll be scanning Wilson again in the future to find out.

 

Dulabros FTW! Kas and I are just that good.

I felt that someone was definitely trying to save Jain the previous night. I'm not sure about it being Wilson (I accused Claincy earlier of that), but I would not be against her being checked again. I will have another look tomorrow when my computer is back on to see if anyone sticks out at me with regards to being the Odiv.

Hreo, will we know if a faction is defeated?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[little wilson]

So I scanned Jain and sure enough, he's our Gyorn! I'll bet that he's already made his Odiv as well. In fact, right now, I'm pretty sure that it's Wilson. She started the votes for Karlin in the first place, perhaps as a chance to try to save Jain from being lynched? There is a few other pieces of evidence that this might be the case, but I'm not at liberty to share them at this moment. This is just my guess though and I'll be scanning Wilson again in the future to find out. 

 

I started the lynch on Karlin because I legitimately thought he was the Gyorn. He was being far too quiet and he had a Seon, which I'd thought the Gyorn would have. I willingly submit myself to your scan, because you won't find my alignment as anything other than a Citizen of Arelon. I'm not sure who the Odiv is, but it's not me. I'd ask that if there's been protection on me, though, that that doesn't get removed. I'm not the Odiv, but I guarantee the Cultists will still want me dead and I don't think you really want that to happen. Jain. Have fun with my three votes.

[Lightsworn Panda]

There once was a man called MenE. He came to the once-glorious city of Arelon, and pronounced: "Rejoice! Rejoice, for Domi has come to liberate you of the Evil that plagues this city!" And so the the Citizens danced to this merry tune, singing praises to the Priest, willingly throwing themselves down and becoming his puppets. Even the King and Queen were subject to him. And so the traitors were brought out, hung one by one. Crick Crack! went their necks. And to each death the Citizens rejoiced, and showered their priest in praise and gold. The Queen killed the King and took his crown. The citizens murdered each other in a frenzy, claiming that the other was a traitor, desperate for a share of glory and recognition from their great Priest, sitting oh so highly in his Fort, untouchable by all.

Meta, you got something wrong. It's Pan-Dareth, not Shu-Dereth.

Bigger post coming...

Edited June 15, 2015 by Lightsworn Panda

[Seonid]

Jain. I doubt I need to give a reason.

EDIT: Stupid autocorrect

Edited June 15, 2015 by Seonid

[Kasimir]

Dulabros FTW! Kas and I are just that good.

Dulabros for life!

Well, then. Claincy. Jain.

I have some tidings from Ren, but I'm really tired right now, so I'm just going to point out one thing: the Odiv pool, then, is going to remain stagnant, at <Luckat, Wilson, Kas, Twei, Kipper.> And IMO, that's not too bad, since Luckat and Kipper are both up as Cultist suspects as well, allowing us to kill two whitespines with a Shardblade. Wilson would be a concern one way or another, given her current Monarch triple-vote. But I'm not really about to LAFO on that score.

As I've always said, I'm not an Odiv, but that sort of thing is inaccessible as a ground of public reason Can't speak for Twei either. I will say this though: I was more willing to relax my suspicions of Jain this cycle for two reasons. As usual, I try to keep to Meta's dictum on not tunnelling. Second, I PMed the M'Hael last night (hence his hashtags) and we spoke briefly about our suspicions. He argued that Jain's willingness to be scanned made him a little less suspicious. (But still defeasibly so.) I thought that was somewhat reasonable; as it was, my suspicions were more directed against those who had volunteered to be scanned late, as that seemed to me to be a good way to appear to be on Team Arelon without being likely to be scanned.

And related to that point on our conversation--just this. Specifically, if looking at yesterday's lynch diverters, we need to look at those among the converts who diverted the lynch (assuming the Odiv had been appointed prior to yesterday.) If the Odiv had been appointed last night (perhaps as Jain figured he might be scanned), then all bets there are off and we need to look to today instead.

 

Will get back with the Elantris Report once I get some sleep, yeah?

[Emerald101]

Dulabros FTW! Kas and I are just that good.

 

I voted for jain before the reveal too . . .

[Sart]

In retrospect, I should have suspected Jain sooner. When I considered the lynch candidates, I voted for the safe candidate. However, I should have realized that something was fishy. Jain only revealed Karlin's Seon when he was in danger of being lynched. It was clearly a diversionary move, in order to get suspicion off him. That being said, I honestly thought Karlin was a Cultist, so I kept my vote on him. Jain has probably already created an Odiv, so it's crucial to kill him quickly. We should continue voicing suspicions for cultists, as well as for the Odiv. I'm going to summarize our suspect pools.

 

Totally good:

Meta, Ren, Neo, Alv

 

Possible Odivs, but definitely not Cultists:

Wilson, Kas, Twei

 

Possible Odivs/Cultists:

Luckat, Kipper/Burnt

 

Possible Cultists:

Dowanx, Seonid, Sart/Wonko, Aonar/Wyrm, M'hael, Clanky, Araris, Em, Claincy, Silver

 

With 2-3 cultists, and most likely a Gyorn, we're going to have our work cut out for us. However, we at least have a shot.

Edited June 16, 2015 by a smart guy

[Haelbarde]

(Hey Sart. By Gyorn, you mean Odiv)

Just verifying Kasimir's comments - he PM'd me during the last night cycle, and I did mention that Lightsworn's post about being scanned did tend to make me think trust him. I had wondered if he was one of our Jindo (anyone actually notice the white text in his post? I missed it the first few times). I still expected him to be scanned, but I was more expecting him to be cleared. So well done Lightsworn.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Emerald101]

In retrospect, I should have suspected Jain sooner. When I considered the lynch candidates, I voted for the safe candidate. However, I should have realized that something was fishy. Jain only revealed Karlin's Seon when he was in danger of being lynched. It was clearly a diversionary move, in order to get suspicion off him. That being said, I honestly thought Karlin was a Cultist, so I kept my vote on him. Jain has probably already created an Odiv, so it's crucial to kill him quickly. We should continue voicing suspicions for cultists, as well as for the Odiv. I'm going to summarize our suspect pools.

 

Totally good:

Meta, Ren, Neo, Alv

 

Possible Gyorns, but definitely not Cultists:

Wilson, Kas, Twei

 

Possible Gyorns/Cultists:

Luckat, Kipper/Burnt

 

Possible Cultists:

Dowanx, Seonid, Sart/Wonko, Aonar/Wyrm, M'hael, Clanky, Araris, Em, Claincy, Silver

 

With 2-3 cultists, and most likely a Gyorn, we're going to have our work cut out for us. However, we at least have a shot.

 

two things: first, Wyrm is pretty much confirmed to be a dula, and I'd be very surprised if we had a dula cultist. Second, Mek is nowhere in your list.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

...I guess now we're sure about Jain, there's no point fishing anymore

 

If Jain is the Gyorn, I suspect he's made Luckat his Odiv. We've been running on the understanding that the Gyorn was converting Elantrians/lurkers/people who couldn't talk, and then switched to confirmed players after Luckat started announcing the converts. But that makes Luckat a strange choice. In more than one game, she's hung back at the start, then come out with a game-changing play later. Jain knows this. So why put such a "scary, scary player" in a position of information from the beginning? I suspect it was because he was always planning to recruit her as Odiv.

[Clanky]

Jain

 

Araris, I have explained my reasoning behind my vote on Maill already and I don't feel like I need to keep defending myself from that again. Since that is the only thing you have really said you suspect me for I would've vote for you if Jain hadn't been exposed this cycle. 

[Metacognition]

This is always a problem with scan reveals, that all conversation stops there. Yes, we have our Gyorn and while there is likely an Odiv out there (if Jain wound up making one), I don't think that should stop us from searching. Conversation and discussion are still the main ways that we find our targets. If Kas hadn't instigated the discussion about who to poison, Bort wouldn't have been in Elantris for me to scan! I wouldn't have picked Winter out if she hadn't given me reason to suspect her.

 

As such, I'd like to remind everyone that this turn isn't over and we can still do some good. The Cultists are still out there and while they won't be up for this lynch, we can still put pressure on them. We can discuss future lynches and try to get them to defend themselves. This would also help in determining who I should scan this upcoming night (as, again, like above, I choose based on who seems suspicious due to the conversation). 

 

We won't get any information from this vote. The Cultists will vote for Jain just as much as anyone else will and since no one else is up for the vote since Jain is obviously guilty, we can't even look at when they voted for Jain. So let's use this time to draw everyone out. 

 

As far as the Odiv goes, we don't even know for sure that Jain made one. If conversions continue to happen, then we can start looking at the list of possible suspects. It's a much shorter list and we'll find them eventually, so the focus should be on the remaining Cultists, IMO. We don't have enough information to worry about an Odiv just yet. 

 

Myself, I'm mainly looking at Claincy and Araris. They've both been just active enough recently, but only enough to vote where it's pretty clear cut (to be fair to them, I haven't gone back over the thread recently, though I plan to). Hael is still either a very perceptive good player or has insider knowledge as an Eliminator. It's very hard to do any hard analysis, as most of the players that are still suspect haven't been all that active, but that's where my thoughts start. 

[Lightsworn Panda]

I voted for jain before the reveal too . . .

You did, but you voted for me because of my venomous defense, which wouldn't have come out had Wyrm not worked out who I was.

Firstly, I'd like to apologize to everyone about the amount of butthurt I have exhibited this game. I actually was in an off mood when Wyrm accused me, but I didn't have to act butthurt in the earlier Cycles just to remove some suspicion from me. I'd like to apologize again to anyone that has been offended by my butthurtness/aggressiveness.

I'd also like to commend Wyrm for his brilliant deduction of who I was. You're not Leader of the Inquisition for nothing. Speaking of which, when will you and Kas get married?

This game is pretty much over. The Priest is too protected to touch. Hero, I suggest that next time you run this game, you should nerf the defensive abilities to make up for the lack of offensive abilities, or at least make the Priest's scan blockable or more vague. In fact, I should end it now. There's no need for this to drag on. Seonid, Emerald and Clanky, you've fought a good and hard fight, but it's over. Throw in the towel, the villagers have won.

[Araris Valerian]

Well, Clanky, there is a point where there isn't really that much to go on for lynches, and I recognize your response to my posts about you. I really don't have much more to go on other than that. I mean, several of the players that are left that haven't been cleared are inactive far more than me or you. So it is really hard to get a read on them. Meta is all in favor of taking down the inactives, from how I understand him. We are probably at a point where we could take out several of them and learn a decent amount if they decide to start speaking up in response. But we already have a clear cut lynch today, so there isn't much point in talking about which inactive to take down since they won't need to address that for another 96 hours or so. Part of that vote wasn't even to draw you out so much as to let the active players know where I stand so that if I get lynched it is less for my level of activity and more because I actually said something suspicious or unfounded.

So I guess that the thing that would change my mind is more activity from you rather than a better explanation, which I know is a bit hypocritical. I spent less than 15 minutes writing this, so while I didn't really need to go back to the thread to post this, it does show that detailed explanations of behavior aren't too time consuming to produce.

[Kasimir]

Okay, I've gotten some sleep and am vaguely more well-rested now, so this is the Elantris Report:

1. Ren notes that because most of the players in the game have been mostly quiet, that's not been very helpful to us. He lists out those who haven't been scanned (i.e. it is logically possible for them to be Cultists) as follows: M'Hael, Kipper/Burnt, Clanky, Dowanx, Araris, Piff/Em, Claincy, Ostrich/Silver, Aonar/Wyrm, Seonid, Sart, and Luckat. Of the lot, he is most inclined to rule out Aonar/Wyrm since we haven't had a Lover death, and Seonid, since he'd been attacked.

2. Those he would like to call attention to are: Silver, since Ostrich never posted, but had (at least at one point) clearly been doing something with his actions. He thinks that precisely because Bort came down on him on the cycle he got lynched, that makes Ostrich more suspicious. It's the whole 'Eliminator knows they've been blown and probably tried messing with us' thing.

3. Clanky and Dowanx had been more active previously. Ren'd like to call attention to how that activity has died off by mid-game. He doesn't like it.

4. Note that he called that a quick overview because we don't have much time. [Edit for clarity: I was heading off to sleep, Ren was doing work.]

Myself, I'm still somewhat suspicious of Luckat, but there's not enough information for me to decide if that's a hunch or just my distaste for how blatant the apologies for inactivity are getting despite ongoing inactivity. Although I had initially been inclined to regard Kipper/Burnt as less suspicious because of his role in the Seonid-Meta thing, I've argued it with Wyrm and I'm going to acknowledge that those aren't very good grounds to remove suspicion for.

Edit: colour.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Kasimir

[luckat]

Myself, I'm still somewhat suspicious of Luckat, but there's not enough information for me to decide if that's a hunch or just my distaste for how blatant the apologies for inactivity are getting despite ongoing inactivity.

 

I apologize for apologizing. This has just been an off game for me.

 

 

Now that we know Jain is the Gyorn, there's two groups to look at. If there is an Odiv, it is luckat, Wilson, Kas, Twei, or Spaghetti. It seems likely that Jain chose an Odiv last night if he hadn't already due to the amount of suspicion on him. However, it is not certain. Regardless of whether he did or not, nothing we say now can change what choice he made, so I think some discussion of each possible Odiv and who we think Jain would choose would be useful as long as it doesn't get in the way of finding Cultists. It's too late for me to add anything here though.

 

There's also the possible Cultists: Hael, Spaghetti, Clanky, Dow, Araris, Emerald, Claincy, Silverblade, Wyrm, Seonid, Sart, and luckat. Probably two or three of these are Cultists. Seonid is less likely because he was attacked. I'm not sure who I suspect the most. I do want to say that I disagree that a lack of a Lover kill is a good reason to rule out Wyrm. That would depend a lot on who the Lovers actually are as well as what the Cultists' current priorities are with their attacks. Many of the Cultists' attacks have failed. Wilson, Seonid, Twei, and whoever the attack night 6 was on (do we know who that was?) were all attacked, but there is no evidence one way or the other whether any of them is a Lover. It is possible there was an attack on a Lover that failed. Conversely, perhaps the Lovers aren't priority targets right now. There are several confirmed players with more to come because of a Priest as well as at least one Warrior. If the Cultists know the identities of a pair of Lovers, they might think one of them is likely to be lynched, or at least that killing them will only narrow down the suspects and make them easier to find. Also, an early hit on Lovers would have made a Dula immediately suspicious, and that's not a role that is easy to hide, as we have seen, so if they have a Dula, it's not surprising they didn't go after the Lover pair the first night. The question of whether the Cultists would have a Dula in the first place is a valid one, although I don't think we can by any means claim it's safe, especially when there's two, but in my opinion the lack of a Lover death does not say anything one way or the other about Dulas.

 

It's really late, so I'm not sure if I made any sense here or said anything useful. I'll post anyway because I might as well say something. I'm not sure if I'll have time to put together actual suspicions.

[Haelbarde]

Just highlighting here that Lightsworn called out Clanky, Seonid, and Emerald as being Cultists. Last few people haven't mentioned this.

Do any of the accused wish to respond?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Although I had initially been inclined to regard Kipper/Burnt as less suspicious because of his role in the Seonid-Meta thing, I've argued it with Wyrm and I'm going to acknowledge that those aren't very good grounds to remove suspicion for.

 

That's fair enough. 

 

Jain

 

So now we know who the Gyorn is i guess its a matter of who's the biggest threat now: A potential Odiv or the cultists...

As Hael just brought up, Lightsworn did just call out some people, accusing them of being the cultists. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Emerald and Clanky, sure, I guess they could be; Clanky has been less active recently, and i haven't really thought much about Emerald yet so I'll reserve judgement on him until I've properly thought it through. However, Seonid is someone I felt was potentially trustworthy, having been attacked by cultists, and his Jindo contact not being dead yet. This does make me wonder if Jain was serious or trolling and if any of those three are cultists or not. I guess it's always possible that 1-2 of them are a cultist, however, i'm more inclined to believe he was lying about Seonid.

However, none of those three have been cleared, so it is a possibility, I don't know how likely it's the case though. 

I don't know, I've not played with you guys before; you guys would be more likely to know if he is trolling or not.

 

Concerning Odiv, as Meta said, there isn't any way of really knowing whether there is or isn't one at the moment until there's another conversion or the Odiv gets scanned by Meta. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Haelbarde]

So, the converts are Kas, Wilson, Twi and Luckat? Ignoring them and Lightsworn, there are 15 players remaining. This would give us 5 cycles minimum till the odiv wins - if the converts continue to be not killed of by either lynches or cultists kills. It's  a minimum of 7 rounds till the Cultists win (presuming the Odiv gets taken out). It could quite possibly take longer for the Odiv to win, particularly if they didn't continue conversion immediately. I would be more of a mind to hunt down Cultists over the Odiv, particularly if we don't get any conversions at the end of Night 8. 

 

While I think of it, we know that Alvron wasn't poisoned (poisoned Night 5, so Night 7 was the conclusion of his second night in Elantris), though the immediate usefulness of said revelation is lessened (it would have proven him clean of being Gyorn, I think?). 

 

EDIT:

And Burnt/Kipper is a convert, taking us down to 14 players. Don't think that changes it though. Maybe it drops the Odiv number to 4? I also realize that this would also assume that the Jindo's drop their game, and miss all subsequent attacks. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Kasimir]

So, the converts are Kas, Wilson, Twi and Luckat? Ignoring them and Lightsworn, there are 15 players remaining. This would give us 5 cycles minimum till the odiv wins - if the converts continue to be not killed of by either lynches or cultists kills. It's  a minimum of 7 rounds till the Cultists win (presuming the Odiv gets taken out). It could quite possibly take longer for the Odiv to win, particularly if they didn't continue conversion immediately. I would be more of a mind to hunt down Cultists over the Odiv, particularly if we don't get any conversions at the end of Night 8. 

 

While I think of it, we know that Alvron wasn't poisoned (poisoned Night 5, so Night 7 was the conclusion of his second night in Elantris), though the immediate usefulness of said revelation is lessened (it would have proven him clean of being Gyorn, I think?). 

 

EDIT:

And Burnt/Kipper is a convert, taking us down to 14 players. Don't think that changes it though. Maybe it drops the Odiv number to 4? I also realize that this would also assume that the Jindo's drop their game, and miss all subsequent attacks.

I don't know if you've missed it, but it's been mentioned a few times that Alv was scanned and cleared by Meta. He cannot therefore be a Cultist, and it had all along been a non-issue whether he would've been a Gyorn. Frankly, the Odiv doesn't matter at this point. If the conversions start, then we worry. Without that, we can go after the Cultists. And as I said, if Kipper and/or Luckat are suspects, then being able to determine if they're Cultists will also help us narrow down our Odiv pool to just 3.

As I see it, the biggest threat at hand are the Cultists, so we are in agreement there.

[Haelbarde]

Oops.... Missed that. Had mostly forgotten Alvron. 

 

Regardless, we now know he's not poisoned, for what that's worth.

[Kasimir]

Had mostly forgotten Alvron.

People have a tendency to do that. Then you realise it's your guts puddling at your feet, and wait, is that your eye he's juggling in his hands?

Nonetheless, agreed. We want to track poison uses, because that's one on Meta, one on Bort. My supposition is that the Cultists don't actually have more poison, or they could use it again to try to confine Meta in Elantri and block the effectiveness of his scanning. Whatever we're looking for, one of the Cultists definitely began with poison. We know it can't be Bort or Zas since they was in Elantris when Meta went in, at the very least. So maybe Winter also started with poison, or we're looking for someone who could've started with poison as well.

In the fallen gardens, I heard the soft bone flute of sorrow.

Tell me: in all lives but this, shall there be an end to sorrow?

I saw the glimmer of sunlight on sharp ice turning to blood.

Tonight, the devils empty out their wine glasses in sorrow.

The desolation consumes grey skies in its own emptiness

The howling wind cries the end of all things: this, then, is sorrow.

In the evening—before the end!—we drank the last of the wine

There’s nothing left now; in my cup is the dregs of sorrow.

When they set the sky ablaze, even your distant ghost has fled

They’ve hollowed out my heart, to better make room for this sorrow.

Do not cling in futility to illusions, Kasimir.

Down that path lies nothing, nothing for you; no end to sorrow.

[Wyrmhero]

You did, but you voted for me because of my venomous defense, which wouldn't have come out had Wyrm not worked out who I was.

Firstly, I'd like to apologize to everyone about the amount of butthurt I have exhibited this game. I actually was in an off mood when Wyrm accused me, but I didn't have to act butthurt in the earlier Cycles just to remove some suspicion from me. I'd like to apologize again to anyone that has been offended by my butthurtness/aggressiveness.

I'd also like to commend Wyrm for his brilliant deduction of who I was. You're not Leader of the Inquisition for nothing. Speaking of which, when will you and Kas get married?

 

Oh, no offence taken from my part, at least, don't worry. I was slightly surprised, but not offended. I'm just amused that my dynamic entry vote was right . The deduction is as much Kas's as mine though, we spent ages bouncing ideas off each other about you and Karlin. Also, the Dula ship, we do not get shipped.

 

I guess Hreo and Tulir now don't have any reason to complain about the 9-page PM Kas and I had in the course of one Night Turn, since it resulted in us picking off the Gyorn.

 

I like the way he has flagged up three different people as Cultists. I mean, sure, it's possible, but is it likely we would have 7 (becoming 8) Eliminators in a 31 person game? Well, it's certainly possible, and probably moreso when they're on different teams. I'm curious though, Jain, why them? Seems to me you've just picked three players we weren't sure of. It's possible one of them's a Cultist, just by probability, but I suspect this is simply a distraction in order to give his Odiv a bit of a head-start after today while we look at three random people.

 

The people I am cautious of as Odivs are luckat, Kas and Wilson. If it's Kas, then he would have to have been converted the previous Night, since we worked together to point Jain out and an Odiv would not do that. That doesn't mean he isn't now, Kas was somewhat hesitant to draw a bead on a Gyorn earlier in the thread today... I don't think any of these can be cleared as of yet. But the Odiv isn't too dangerous on his own, as conversions will be relatively slow. I think we can afford to wait a while before removing the rest of Shu-Dereth from the world. It's much more imperative we find the last few Cultists, as they remove a player from the game, rather than just marking them.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Wyrmhero