Long Game 93: Soon May the Islands Come

[Stick.]

Gaaahhhh Wiz

I know what this looks like - I spend the entire turn asking people to join the wagon and retract my vote once people actually join it. But idk, the earnestness of this post:

6 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

What makes me confused is my just sheer lack of ability to read anything from the posts or even remember what is in them. My eyes just kind of skim over them for some reason. It's happened to me in multiple previous games before. 

And not I didn't quite think Sart was the same confused as me, but more just kind of generally confused. It felt geniune to me.

Idk my brain is fuzzing right now. And huh, I've been having trouble diverting enough of my attention to focus on the game. Maybe tomorrow when my brain isn't fuzzing it'll be easier.

Reminds me a lot of AG9!Cham. This post, to be more specific:

 

@Kasimir the LG90 interaction I mentioned is here (it’s the same ‘her votes are an elim jumping onto wagons’ argument): 

But I will say that I like the effort put into this post:

7 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

That post from Sart feels weird. Don't know what to think of it yet.

I didn't say that they should not be AI, just that I didn't think they were very AI. Plus, you're basically saying the absence of AIness is what makes them AI, so whatever. Here's a list of my first two (ish) posts from the last couple of games:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Both of these are very cursory and passive, I think, but you do have a point that they interact with the thread more than my first post in this game, but really not that much more than my second.

My other thing of note that is present in both of these is a duality. It's a quote and a statement, that statement is pretty non-interactive and passive, but the quote is more relevant. 

The original post here before the edit is quite passive and very similar to this games, I think.

The duality is also present here, though this time you could say that there are two dualities. Duality the first, two responses, one, irrelevant, joking, very like my first post, the other is slightly more game relevant (really relevant when you consider my role), but still quite joking and cursory, more like my second post this game. Duality the second, original post, and edit. One mildly cursory and slightly passive, the other an incitement to action, very tied to my role, and just about the opposite of passive.

This is pretty passive, in the grand scheme of things. I make a fake claim, but it's a very boring fake claim and pretty cursory. 

This is once again a duality as well. A joke and a roleless claim. One very cursory, the other very passive.

This is once again very cursory, very passive. It's technically engaging in the thread a little, but it's also pretty joking. 

The duality is less present here, but one could say the post and the quote of myself is basically the same. 

 

Wall post, but even still it's only about ⅓ relevant, the rest is minor jokes.

The duality here is of quotes vs the vote. As I've already said, the quotes are about ⅓ relevant, but the vote was mostly a joke. About 50/50 relevance wise.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, but my argument is that I split what would normally be my first post into two separate posts this game, and if you take them together, they seem pretty similar to the other games.

Regarding Ash’s claim, I’m sympathetic but I don’t really like how Ash’s vote is still on Araris (which was a poke vote as far as I can tell). I’m uncomfortable with the lack of self-pres because the apathy there is Dingo vibes. 

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

And honestly, idk what time I’ll wake up tomorrow or if it’ll be in time for rollover, and this whole situation is reminding me of a few LGs back.

Is it that one LG where we exe’d you and you were Mistborn? I don’t remember if you claimed it before dying though. 

4 hours ago, |TJ| said:

I want to point out that the self-assured tone of Sart is not an alignment indicative for him. I used to think so, but LG92 dispelled that theory. In a past game, I think most likely LG67, he caught e!Striker with single very strong assertive post which made me think it was village indicative of him. But he did the same thing when accusing Aman in LG92 of being evil because of fake-claiming the presence of football roles.

That’s a really good point. I remember initially village-reading LG92!Sart for that Aman vote because I thought the confidence (and subsequent admission of fault in his arguments) was very village. On reflection, he actually did the exact same thing here. 

Sart

edit:

whoops I forgot my vote was no longer even on Wiz 

Edited March 29, 2023 by _Stick_

[Kasimir]

29 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Gaaahhhh Wiz

I know what this looks like - I spend the entire turn asking people to join the wagon and retract my vote once people actually join it. But idk, the earnestness of this post:

Reminds me a lot of AG9!Cham. This post, to be more specific:

 

@Kasimir the LG90 interaction I mentioned is here (it’s the same ‘her votes are an elim jumping onto wagons’ argument): 

But I will say that I like the effort put into this post:

Regarding Ash’s claim, I’m sympathetic but I don’t really like how Ash’s vote is still on Araris (which was a poke vote as far as I can tell). I’m uncomfortable with the lack of self-pres because the apathy there is Dingo vibes. 

Is it that one LG where we exe’d you and you were Mistborn? I don’t remember if you claimed it before dying though. 

That’s a really good point. I remember initially village-reading LG92!Sart for that Aman vote because I thought the confidence (and subsequent admission of fault in his arguments) was very village. On reflection, he actually did the exact same thing here. 

Sart

edit:

whoops I forgot my vote was no longer even on Wiz 

Two quick things as I'm on mobile:

1. I think it's worth keeping in mind V!Sart does that too. I linked a post from Heron that was functionally the same. I also think it's weird for E!Sart to functionally pass up either the CC or the really obvious claim that Xino's vote is sus. 

2. Tbf you have a point about Ash's lack of self pres. 

Aaaaaaaaaa

I am now going to spend the next ten minutes seeing if I can update the ISO bot to yank all Sart posts from the hell that is LG92... 

EDIT: ngl I'm gonna be mad af if Wiz is Village but mostly at myself I legit spent most of this Day going "actually no I don't really think he's Evil?" only to finally get worn down and talked into seeing the E!Wiz case and then it turns out I just shouldn't have doubted myself that hard. 

EDITED 2: @_Stick_ Pulled all of Sarenrae's posts, can't format right on mobile. Will link on PC in twenty but in general, am uncertain where the contention that Sart's admission of fault tracks with LG92. He's more collected there despite being aggressive. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Stick.]

20 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

1. I think it's worth keeping in mind V!Sart does that too. I linked a post from Heron that was functionally the same. I also think it's weird for E!Sart to functionally pass up either the CC or the really obvious claim that Xino's vote is sus. 

.
.

.

I am now going to spend the next ten minutes seeing if I can update the ISO bot to yank all Sart posts from the hell that is LG92…

I think some of us made a similar argument for V!Sart in LG92 - Aman was in his ‘im neutral’ era when Sart he voted for him and so a lot of us decided that surely an elim would not want to waste an exe on a claimed neutral (I forget, did the elims know there were no neutrals?). But essentially, at the time it seemed like E!Sart could have come up with more viable arguments if he wanted, which we weren’t seeing. 

The wonderful thing about people who don’t venture out of the SE sub forum is that you don’t need an ISO bot!  Just go to page 2 or 3 of Sart’s posts and it’s all LG92. 

Edit:

20 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

EDITED 2: @_Stick_Pulled all of Sarenrae's posts, can't format right on mobile. Will link on PC in twenty but in general, am uncertain where the contention that Sart's admission of fault tracks with LG92. He's more collected there despite being aggressive.

At some point he said Orlok’s view made more sense and then kind of tried to reason his side of it before abandoning that line of argument and moving on to something else entirely. To be fair, is argument here was just outright invalid, so it makes sense that it won’t fully track with LG92 but I think it’s similar enough 

Edited March 29, 2023 by _Stick_

[|TJ|]

A nice 2-2-2-2-2 tie here, why wouldn't it happen in the last game when I wanted it to happen? xD

I went search for Sart's post from LG67 to figure out if there were any difference between his strength/wording in LG67 v in LG92 to figure out AI - 

But I feel like this post is equally as strong as his post from LG92 accusing Aman. See if y'all can find any difference. 

@Kasimir Lopen is likely to be evil as it gives the elims a chance to block Cord? That could work against them too as they might block a friendly fire though. I don't really recall e!Ash claiming to prevent elimination, but I've been thinking, I don't really recall many evil Ash games other than Dingo and QF45. 

It's back to the starting of the cycle for me as I'm mostly trying to figure out who to vote for between Sart and Ash, sigh. I'll wait for developments to see if anyone else wants to join in on Wiz but I'm travelling tonight and I need to pack, so I'll have to vote soon. 

Edit: In another news, I'm starting to find the evil mon weirdly cute, like how you would find a creepy owl cute :P.

Edited March 29, 2023 by |TJ|

[Kasimir]

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

I think some of us made a similar argument for V!Sart in LG92 - Aman was in his ‘im neutral’ era when Sart he voted for him and so a lot of us decided that surely an elim would not want to waste an exe on a claimed neutral (I forget, did the elims know there were no neutrals?). But essentially, at the time it seemed like E!Sart could have come up with more viable arguments if he wanted, which we weren’t seeing. 

Yeah, but pushing a neutral and pushing what is essentially a very suspicious and baity move are two different things. Saying the Elims don't want to antagonise a claimed neutral makes a hell of a lot more assumptions in a blackout game (they didn't know, and if you read the Elim doc, they had trust issues with Aman anyway.) It's also generally an assumption about SE meta which only holds true because we consider killing a neutral to be rude/not advance wincon. You'll notice that in LG83, the Elims openly discussed killing me because I was acting against their interests anyway. Being fourth voter on a train before Rollovet looks a lot more suspicious - trains that suddenly gain momentum rightfully get a lot of attention.

And why didn't Sart's teammates point that out? Sure, he's not the most communicative doc player but you'd expect that to be the one glaring thing people note about Xino in recent games, especially because Xino has both been missed for it (E!Xino) and MLed for it, and that's that he objectively has very few (hyper)active Elim games. 

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

The wonderful thing about people who don’t venture out of the SE sub forum is that you don’t need an ISO bot!  Just go to page 2 or 3 of Sart’s posts and it’s all LG92. 

I'm too used to people who venture out of the subforum, but yeah this is how I pulled it on mobile.

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

At some point he said Orlok’s view made more sense and then kind of tried to reason his side of it before abandoning that line of argument and moving on to something else entirely. To be fair, is argument here was just outright invalid, so it makes sense that it won’t fully track with LG92 but I think it’s similar enough 

I'm not referring to that at all.

1. He opened LG92 with the Aman push. E!Sart also loves his CC votes:

Quote

vote count:
sart/ookla the lowercase (1): kas/ookla the wyrmslayer, araris valerian/ookla the porched, archer/ookla the paranormal
mage (0): ilwei/ooklil' the wei
archer/ookla the paranormal (4): szeth_pancakes/ookla the confused, sart/ookla the lowercase, illwei/ooklil' the wei, danex/ookla the quantificational
illwei (1): araris valerian/ookla the porched

no votes:
tani/ookla of anarchy of chaos, mage, archer/ookla the paranormal

normally i'd remove my retaliation vote, but no one else has votes besides archer and me, and i don't want to get voted out day one.

and i'm ninja'd by araris but i think i trust illwei though... so uh... to heck with it, i'm taking the coward's way out. mage. he's the only person who hasn't posted. let the contribution crusade ride again.

...Which makes his reluctance to CC Devo all the more weird, unless we're back in Ash/Sart E/E world. But TJ is a Whole New Train, as far as I can recall, since that's prior to Wiz stacking on. You can't argue he was trying to bait me onto TJ because I also made it clear I'm generally not willing to consider TJ on the table for D1.

2*. Small parallel I can see is probably to this game is how he opened LG82, and he was Evil there, so...

Quote

aw man. that sart guy, definitely not to be trusted.

...

crud, i am that sart guy.

and someone else might be doing this dumb lowercase gimmick.

oh dear.

archer. what's with the bandwagon? i know araris does stab votes, but that seems out of character for you.

He frames it as a bandwagon question but the charge isn't about bandwagoning per se but about that being a deviation, which is fundamentally a meta argument, just opposite-valenced from the one against Xino. So you could make an argument he likes meta arguments.

3. Agree about the confidence point here:

V!Sart does this as well, so that's less helpful.

4. To me, the real distinguishing point is this:

11 hours ago, Sart said:

Fair. It's just that I feel like I've fallen into a holding pattern with this game in general. I'll make one or two tentative votes, then retract them after getting basically any push back. I usually end up on poke votes as a safe option. Then when I do swing for the fences, I usually make such a wild claim that it's immediately read as nonsensical. I'm just tired of it.

So, what the hell, I'll just go where my gut's telling me. Xino. TJ. I really didn't like his vote on Ash. If he's more suspicious of me than Ash, why vote Ash and not me? That's an easy enough train to get going, since Kasimir, who is being very active, had already voted for me. It wasn't even halfway through the cycle. I just feel like the vote was too opportunistic. Plus, it lets him pivot onto my execution for the next cycle in a village Ash world.

Having just made this post, I feel really weird about it. I already know it's going to get attacked from two different angles. One, it's way too retaliatory. I get my first vote and I'm already defending myself? That's not a good look. And two, this is a tacit defense of Ash yet again. I'm sure Kas is going to read it as he and I being on the same team. I'm not sure what alignment he is, but I've now voted on two separate counter trains. Fun times. It's difficult to draw anything from I'm busy right now. It's why we have the Contribution Crusade in the first place, so I understand why the train is happening. I'm half tempted to join it myself. Still, I feel like it's better to raise a suspicion now, rather than wait and let it fester. The gut wants what the gut wants.

(A) As TJ and I pointed out, there's no real reason to agree with Archer on this. It's a point worth pushing back on because it actually can be NAI or if it is AI, it's just weakly so. The AI case presumes Archer has in mind a theory about E!Sart pre-flipping V!Devo and not wanting to poke vote there but that barely holds water anyway as he'd be the first Devo voter. No reason to withhold his usual CC MO here. (Sart should also be experienced enough not to get stunlocked by something like that.)

(B) That very self conscious paragraph below.

The entire Orlok section of the post you're referring to doesn't have an analogue to it.

Because he doesn't at any point explicitly undercut himself to that extent. He's arguing against Orlok and reiterating his point on Aman's claim being unhelpful.

Here, he's just got an entire self-conscious paragraph on how his post doesn't make sense. It's not emotional in the same way some players get but it is revealing in a way that I haven't seen E!Sart indulging in when he writes his posts, and this is after scanning everything he did for LG92.

In LG82, which I linked, he just says he doesn't want to die. in LG92, it's a one-liner, which, if you remember from the Elim doc, he panic-wrote:

Quote

I've been trying for the better part of the cycle to try and justify my last minute vote retraction, but I can't. I panicked, and let an elim off the hook.

The closest analogue?

AG8.

Quote

Finally, there's me. Look, my gut is a Dark Friend. If Beagle is not an Elim, I haven't voted for a single Evil person all game. I'm not the greatest village player, but this is a new low, even for me. I completely understand where the votes on me are coming from. Honestly, if my positions were reversed, I would probably vote on me. The only argument I have is a role distribution one, but that's tenuous at best. However, I might as well claim at this point, since I'm likely to die sooner or later. I'm a Village Smoker. My guess for distribution is that the Village has one of every power role, but that there are some additional Mistborn sprinkled around, including one or potentially two on the Elim team. I have no way to prove my role, because I frankly haven't been using it. I've been on so many small trains that it didn't make sense to protect my vote, and I didn't want to block any Seekers as I became increasingly suspicious. The only time I used it was Day 1. I smoked myself and Onyx Flamingo. I was going to make a flirtatious PM Day 1, since we're the two Casanovas in town, but I never got around to it.

Ash-wise:

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

Regarding Ash’s claim, I’m sympathetic but I don’t really like how Ash’s vote is still on Araris (which was a poke vote as far as I can tell). I’m uncomfortable with the lack of self-pres because the apathy there is Dingo vibes. 

My main struggle with this is I can see it both ways. If he did self-pres, it'd technically be NAI, but at the same time, it's what E!him would want to do. It's harder for me to see E!Ash log off without self-presing - it places the burden on his teammates to save him which is arguably unnecessarily incriminating for them.

It's a fair point about Dingo apathy but if it is Dingo apathy, then I'd have to look within <you, TJ, Archer, Araris> because Dingo triggers under specific conditions for Ash, and I'm Vikemon.

Wiz

Archer

The heart wants what it wants. Or as Hume says, "Reason is the servant of the passions and can pretend to no higher office than to serve them."

Edited to add:

4 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

@Kasimir Lopen is likely to be evil as it gives the elims a chance to block Cord? That could work against them too as they might block a friendly fire though. I don't really recall e!Ash claiming to prevent elimination, but I've been thinking, I don't really recall many evil Ash games other than Dingo and QF45. 

Yeah - IMO giving the Village Lopen and the Elims Huio is a bit rougher for the Village as Cord is more likely to misfire, especially at the start (unless channelling Alv.) It's not impossible but I don't consider it as likely.

Edited to add 2:

Elims blocking friendly fire isn't the worst, @|TJ| - I'd argue that it'd've been better for us if someone had blocked Fifth that cycle. Sometimes it's better for the Village to be stuck trying to resolve a player - info denial game, aka 'fliplessness.'

Edited March 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Kasimir]

6 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Edit: In another news, I'm starting to find the evil mon weirdly cute, like how you would find a creepy owl cute :P.

Oh my God why would you find Gesomon cute TJ clearly Evil af >:(

[Stick.]

It's only D1, I don't know anymore >>

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

AG8.

Okay true, I can see the self-consciousness in that post. 

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

It's harder for me to see E!Ash log off without self-presing - it places the burden on his teammates to save him which is arguably unnecessarily incriminating for them

I mean with that role claim it's reasonable to assume e!Ash's teammates won't really need to interfere all that much

What if the village got both the roleblocker and the lurcher and the elims got the coinshot?

...Nah that's too wild

...but maybe in a two-elim world...Cuz after we exe one elim we effectively get rid of the coinshot bc actions economy 

[|TJ|]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Elims blocking friendly fire isn't the worst, @|TJ| - I'd argue that it'd've been better for us if someone had blocked Fifth that cycle. Sometimes it's better for the Village to be stuck trying to resolve a player - info denial game, aka 'fliplessness.'

Agreed, I've been a victim of friendly fire more often than I like >>

7 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Oh my God why would you find Gesomon cute TJ clearly Evil af >:(

Bahahaha xD I've also been called weird for saying owls are cute :P. 

Also noting that Wiz has been on but hasn't really responded to my accusations.

[Stick.]

I'd be down for an Archer flashwagon tbh

[|TJ|]

5 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

What if the village got both the roleblocker and the lurcher and the elims got the coinshot?

...Nah that's too wild

...but maybe in a two-elim world...Cuz after we exe one elim we effectively get rid of the coinshot bc actions economy 

I feel like when Stick is calm, clear, concise and confident, she's obviously village. But when she starts paranoiding theories... MR56 comes to my mind. xD

[Kasimir]

@|TJ|: My take on it -

LG67, V!Sart:

Quote

StrikerEZ I find this discussion to be a distraction for the village. Most of your posts have been extolling the virtues of Transportation, even voting on Gears due to his assertion that Adhesion is better than Transportation. There are two problems with your argument.

1. Adhesion is strictly better than Transportation for determining the night kill. If there is no night kill, there are only two possibilities. Either the kill action was canceled, or the elims forgot to put in a kill. A kill blocked by Progression is reported via the write-up. A lack of kill is generally a dead giveaway that Adhesion was successful. Contrast that with Transportation. While it is true you may have directed the elim kill to your target, it is just as likely that the elims targeted that person. This scenario creates plenty of false positives, and won't be helpful.
2. Radiants with Transportation have much better things to do. Elsecallers can just scan for alignment, which is a much easier way to learn who is evil. Willshapers have access to Cohesion, which is also a much better action to use. It works as a form of protection, and can lead to the elims killing themselves. Even if you accidentally disrupt a scan, Transformation results reveal the person that it hit, so that won't be an issue.

I fundamentally disagree with your assertion that role analysis posts are NAI. They are absolutely indicative of alignment. Yes, Gears said that he wrote his post before the game started, but if he was an elim, you can modify those posts to encourage poor strategies. By analyzing the ruleset, we analyze player's thoughts, and can detect role and alignment.

I want to point you to two things here: first, Sart just lays out his thoughts. He is direct - Sart tends to be very direct - but he's not particularly involved emotionally IMO. All the statements I've highlighted are direct statements but they're opinion statements: "I fundamentally disagree with..." "They are absolutely indicative of..." If this were a verbal debate in Skyrim, he Fus-Ro-Dahed Striker and just went for the jugular.

Compare with:

LG92, E!Sart:

Quote

Look I'm just going to do it. Amanuensis. You've made a claim that's impossible to verify without getting immediately shot at. Even if we believe you, you've literally claimed that you are a Serial Killer! Admittedly, you are only intending to go after certain roles, but that still gives you a wide target list. Just by the nature of mafia, you are more likely to hit a Village soccer player than you are an Elim soccer player. You're not helping the thread, and your reveal has become a black hole of discussion. You've done this gambit before, and stayed alive way past your due date, and I'm not going to let you keep this up.

IMO the highlighted sentences here have a stronger emotional valence than the sample. There's a difference between "this is a distraction for the Village" and "a black hole of discussion" - the second is more loaded. I don't want to say the 'o' word but there's a bit more of a critical distance in the first, I'd argue, which implies that Sart is taking this vote more personally (=/= @ Aman, it could just be in terms of stakes or experiences.)

"stayed alive way past your due date" + the whopper "I'm not going to let you keep this up." This is very aggressive and hits a lot harder than in LG67.

The confounding factor here is IDK if this has to do with the fact that Aman is known to make such plays and Sart has been on the receiving end at least once, or if this is endemic to Elim Sart. There's nothing at all that is particularly emotionally loaded about any of the accusations E!Sart makes in LG82, for instance.

Compare to this game:

On 3/28/2023 at 10:42 AM, Sart said:

Yeah, I'm just going to throw a vote on xinoehp512.  He always spikes in activity when he's evil, which makes him way too easy too read. If it turns out you're innocent, at least I can revise my overall impression of you, and not be so judgemental.

It's very detached. I'm not picking up any valence at all. There's confidence but it's not emotionally loaded confidence. In fact, if anything, Sart is extremely blase about Xino's flip? It's like he dgaf about Xino's flip. That part, I'd almost tonally give a  for.

I don't think this is particularly telling as I don't think the circumstances of each post are very easily related to each other, but you asked for my view.

19 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

It's only D1, I don't know anymore >>

Join the club :sob:

Spoiler

 

19 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I mean with that role claim it's reasonable to assume e!Ash's teammates won't really need to interfere all that much

What if the village got both the roleblocker and the lurcher and the elims got the coinshot?

...Nah that's too wild

...but maybe in a two-elim world...Cuz after we exe one elim we effectively get rid of the coinshot bc actions economy 

Ok fair, I don't disagree that could be possible. Either way, no alignment scanner, so we really can't afford to subordinate player analysis to role analysis and Beagle this.

17 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Bahahaha xD I've also been called weird for saying owls are cute :P. 

Owls are cute. TJ.

Edited to add:

Tbh, @Sart - You say you do role analysis best. What's your take on Ash's Lopen claim?

Edited to add 2:

Right sorry got distracted with all this. @Matrim's Dice got back to me. Us normies do not get a message when we get roleblocked. I didn't think Mat would be so kind, but it was worth a shot  In other words, roleblock IMO is weakened in what it does.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Stick.]

7 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

I feel like when Stick is calm, clear, concise and confident, she's obviously village. But when she starts paranoiding theories... MR56 comes to my mind. xD

Clearly you have not met QF64!Stick 

I might be busy during rollover. E!Sart means E!Ash, because Ash is an easy CC vote for E!Sart and he is refusing to go there. For now I'm good with V!Wiz. 

Archer could be evil, and if Archer is evil then the elims are more likely to have Rushu because in an E!Archer world I feel like that misunderstanding of TKN's post was feigned. So E!Archer --> probably V!TKN

 

[|TJ|]

29 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

My take on it -

Ash Wiz

That's me for the cycle. 

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

Here I am. Getting on the Ash Archer train. My last vote of D1 is locked in.

Spoiler

Also sorry guys, you might not get the explanation until after the game, or if I die.

EDIT: I feel like the points about Ash not being very active, and that not really being AI, are pretty good. Part of me feels like TJ is an elim, but I think Arcer is the better choice.

Edited March 29, 2023 by TheAlpha929

[The Wandering Wizard]

Trying something new to see if it helps

Pg 1 Reads

Spoiler

Village: 

Village Lean: Stick (feels good, rather like LG92 Stick when she was in. Ease in thread feels more like V!Stick than the ease of thread from e!Stick), Kas (come on, this is Kas. I have trouble reading him as much other than village most of the time. Does feel helpful in a very V!Kas way.)

Null: Archer (Feels weird with what he started out with. Mostly just confused by it.), Alpha (Feels weird and more self aware of posts. Could just be new playerness. Confused so he's in here), Xino (Poking the bear is a dangerous thing. Nothing stands out here either way)

Elim Lean:

Elim:

Pg 2 Reads

Spoiler

Village: 

Village Lean: Kas (Getting good vibes and visible attempts to solve. Good engagement with the thread.), Xino (feels kind of bantery like village Xino. Very weak read)

Null: Stick (Agree with her but feels off compared to the previous page) Alpha (Feels weird but I'm chalking it up to new playerness. Still confused), TJ (Haven't played with him much, feels similar to LG92 in my mind. But don't know well enough yet), Araris (Appears with typical stab vote. Nothing of note yet), Ash (Appears with a typical poke vote, nothing of note yet)

Elim Lean:

Elim:

Pg 3 Reads

Spoiler

Village: 

Village Lean: Kas (Feels good and typical Kas questioning), Stick (Still getting good feelings from her engagement with the game)

Null: JNV (Not much here. But appear as V!JNV usually does. Haven't seen enough to really know), Xino (Getting good feelings but my mind still flags that fourth Ash vote) Alpha (Still have no idea which way to read them)

Elim Lean: Archer (Feels like Croc again a bit)

Elim:

And I'm out of time for that, it helped focus me though

7 hours ago, |TJ| said:

Crafted how? That feels like a very generic statement. You did not mention it when Kas felt it was odd, and neither when Stick mentioned it. You're only joining in now when there's a vote on me. Wiz Ash

Crafted in the sense that I felt an ulterior motive behind it. And it felt kind of evil at the time, less now, but still kinda. 

9 minutes ago, TheAlpha929 said:

Here I am. Getting on the Ash Archer train. My last vote of D1 is locked in.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also sorry guys, you might not get the explanation until after the game, or if I die.

EDIT: I feel like the points about Ash not being very active, and that not really being AI, are pretty good. Part of me feels like TJ is an elim, but I think Arcer is the better choice.

.__.

This gives me all the bad vibes and feels far too aware for a new player.

TJ Ash

Edit:

50 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

It's only D1, I don't know anymore >>

Okay true, I can see the self-consciousness in that post. 

I mean with that role claim it's reasonable to assume e!Ash's teammates won't really need to interfere all that much

What if the village got both the roleblocker and the lurcher and the elims got the coinshot?

...Nah that's too wild

...but maybe in a two-elim world...Cuz after we exe one elim we effectively get rid of the coinshot bc actions economy 

...don't feed the fire. It does seem possible though.

Edited March 29, 2023 by The Wandering Wizard

[Stick.]

What’s the vote count ?

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

9 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

.__.

This gives me all the bad vibes and feels far too aware for a new player.

I pick things up quickly. 

[Kasimir]

K. In terms of where my vote is going as I need to medicate and sleep:

-View on Ash and Sart currently is somewhere in the vicinity of "IDGAF anymore go ahead but I won't help you." Sort of weakened my credences after massive Sart crawl, but I still don't really think he's Evil and don't want to go there. Pragmatic argument for Ash is weakened IMO by Mat's clarification but IDK how strong I feel the Lopen point is.
-IDK about Wiz anymore.

I still reasonably don't want to go after Alpha or Telrao D1, and the same goes for the <JNV, TJ, Araris> set. Excluding them, there's <Stick, Xino, Devo, TKN, Archer>

Xino and Stick are non-starters for today. I sort of get a Village vibe off Devo, but it's a very weak one and I wouldn't stake the farm on it. Between TKN and Archer...

Urgh.

I've been thinking of Archer's hanging back, and I feel as though he's in a middle ground between completely hanging back and in a place where he's advancing the thread, e.g. his interactions with Wiz. Some of it is likely a function of where my/Stick's/TJ's timezones overlap (the AG8 KGB says hi) but at the same time, it's a good place for E!him to lurk. But I don't like Alpha's vote on Archer out of the blue like this. I think I'm rethinking everything too much at this point to be helpful right now, sorry.

Make a guy  for just one game which cannot be spoken of and he forgets how to  -.-

4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Edited Mat's vc, sorry Mat

• Ashbringer (3): xinoehp512, |TJ|, Wiz
• Araris Valerian (2): Ashbringer, Devo
• Telrao (1): Araris Valerian
• _Stick_ (1): The Known Novel
• Sart (2): Archer, Stick
• TheAlpha929 (1): Telrao
• |TJ| (1): Sart
• Archer (1): Alpha

@_Stick_

Edited to add: Can anyone tell me if Ash has, at any point, not been the lead train? I'm tired and have a lot of tabs right now.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Mat]

Can confirm Kas' VC.

• Ashbringer (3): xinoehp512, |TJ|, The Wandering Wizard
• Araris Valerian (2): Ashbringer, Devotary of Spontaneity
• Telrao (1): Araris Valerian
• _Stick_ (1): The Known Novel
• Sart (2): Archer, _Stick_
• TheAlpha929 (1): Telrao
• |TJ| (1): Sart
• Archer (1): TheAlpha929

41 minutes remaining!

[The Wandering Wizard]

Going off the GMs offical VC...which should be accurate...right?

Very very confused by Alpha because Archer isn't even a train? Like I mean, if he was evil he should have known such a thing, right?

• Ashbringer (3): xinoehp512, |TJ|, The Wandering Wizard
• Araris Valerian (2): Ashbringer, Devo
• Telrao (1): Araris Valerian
• _Stick_ (1): The Known Novel
• Archer (1): TheAlpha929
• Sart (2): Archer, _Stick_
• TheAlpha929 (1): Telrao
• |TJ| (1): Sart

Edit: I did it, produced a messed up VC >> 

Should be fixed now though

Edited March 29, 2023 by The Wandering Wizard

[Kasimir]

I...

Devo

Four Holy Beasts forgive me I just dk anymore and am following a hunch.

Goodnight everyone.

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

9 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Very very confused by Alpha because Archer isn't even a train? Like I mean, if he was evil he should have known such a thing, right?

Yeah… that was a mistake. I hadn’t seen a VC in a while and thought there was one.

[Araris Valerian]

Yeah, Ash has been either in the lead or tied the entire game. There doesn’t seem to be any appetite for Telrao, and I’m not too sure where else to vote. Any takers for TJ? I’m pretty okay with the Ash exe as well, I just find it curious that opposing trains haven’t really found much purchase.

[Stick.]

I have managed to appear for rollover but idk it feels like people are trying to half heartedly start new wagons it’s not doing anything at this point 

Edit:

it would be so awesome and so cool if we tied the votes 

Edited March 29, 2023 by _Stick_

[The Wandering Wizard]

Forgive me if this is wrong U_U

Ash Alpha

3 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

it would be so awesome and so cool if we tied the votes 

Well it is done...for better or worse, we are now in Alvron's hands

Edited March 29, 2023 by The Wandering Wizard