Long Game 93: Soon May the Islands Come

[Telrao]

12 hours ago, Kasimir said:

- @Telrao is lurking. Not incompatible with E play from last game, and feel that more pressure should elicit clarity about alignment.

8 hours ago, Archer said:

Being responsive to pressure is sus, so here's a catch 22, Telrao

8 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Edit: Also @Telrao why'd you switch as well?

3 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

I would like some more explanation from both Telrao and Alpha about why they prefer Xino over Ash. Their votes feel very "safe", while also adding to a train I'm not hugely a fan of.

2 hours ago, TheAlpha929 said:

If you really need me to, I will type out an explanation later, as I am pressed for time at the moment. For now: Xino; Telrao

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Yes please. Both that and why Telrao!

*logs onto Shard*

*Sees THIS*

WhAT the sTOrMs

Okay, I voted for Xino off of gut feeling. Initially I voted for Kas just for kicks (as you do), but then decided v!Kas. So, I turned to the next suspicious person - which was Xino. Yes, it was a gut vote - I'm not familiar enough with people's playing styles to make an informed vote.

Also, I think I'm changing from Xino to Alpha - his decision making is quite suspicious to me.

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

1 minute ago, Telrao said:

*logs onto Shard*

*Sees THIS*

WhAT the sTOrMs

Okay, I voted for Xino off of gut feeling. Initially I voted for Kas just for kicks (as you do), but then decided v!Kas. So, I turned to the next suspicious person - which was Xino. Yes, it was a gut vote - I'm not familiar enough with people's playing styles to make an informed vote.

Also, I think I'm changing from Xino to Alpha - his decision making is quite suspicious to me.

Lol. Arguably, my decision making is crap because I’m new to SE.

[Stick.]

We sure are having a lot of vote movement huh o.O

4 minutes ago, Telrao said:

*logs onto Shard*

*Sees THIS*

WhAT the sTOrMs

Okay, I voted for Xino off of gut feeling. Initially I voted for Kas just for kicks (as you do), but then decided v!Kas. So, I turned to the next suspicious person - which was Xino. Yes, it was a gut vote - I'm not familiar enough with people's playing styles to make an informed vote.

Also, I think I'm changing from Xino to Alpha - his decision making is quite suspicious to me.

What do you think of Ash?  

[Telrao]

1 minute ago, TheAlpha929 said:

Lol. Arguably, my decision making is crap because I’m new to SE.

Hehe me too  

Just now, _Stick_ said:

We sure are having a lot of vote movement huh o.O

What do you think of Ash?  

I don't have a lot of reads, yet. I might revisit some of Ash's earlier posts to get more of a feel, but for now, I'm unsure. Last time I played Elim with Ash, and Ash stayed rather quiet throughout the game... which kinda aligns with this play too. Although, that just could've been inactivity. *awkward shrug*

I dooooon't knooooooowwww

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

Hehehe confusion

[Stick.]

36 minutes ago, Telrao said:

Hehe me too  

I don't have a lot of reads, yet. I might revisit some of Ash's earlier posts to get more of a feel, but for now, I'm unsure. Last time I played Elim with Ash, and Ash stayed rather quiet throughout the game... which kinda aligns with this play too. Although, that just could've been inactivity. *awkward shrug*

I dooooon't knooooooowwww

Sorry I should rephrase my question - what do you think of the Ash wagon? It started off popular, then died down a bit, and then rose back again. Like you said, Ash hadn’t posted much so there aren’t many arguments to be made against him unless said argument is e!Ash activity trends. 

Anyone wanna join me on TKN or Wiz? :3 The back-and-forth I just had with TKN reminds me of LG90 when E!TKN I think had a similar argument against me. 

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon]

Wiz might be a good choice.

[Sart]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Sart   This is the type of post you attach a poke vote to. You didn't. That's weird. 

Fair. It's just that I feel like I've fallen into a holding pattern with this game in general. I'll make one or two tentative votes, then retract them after getting basically any push back. I usually end up on poke votes as a safe option. Then when I do swing for the fences, I usually make such a wild claim that it's immediately read as nonsensical. I'm just tired of it.

So, what the hell, I'll just go where my gut's telling me. Xino. TJ. I really didn't like his vote on Ash. If he's more suspicious of me than Ash, why vote Ash and not me? That's an easy enough train to get going, since Kasimir, who is being very active, had already voted for me. It wasn't even halfway through the cycle. I just feel like the vote was too opportunistic. Plus, it lets him pivot onto my execution for the next cycle in a village Ash world.

Having just made this post, I feel really weird about it. I already know it's going to get attacked from two different angles. One, it's way too retaliatory. I get my first vote and I'm already defending myself? That's not a good look. And two, this is a tacit defense of Ash yet again. I'm sure Kas is going to read it as he and I being on the same team. I'm not sure what alignment he is, but I've now voted on two separate counter trains. Fun times. It's difficult to draw anything from I'm busy right now. It's why we have the Contribution Crusade in the first place, so I understand why the train is happening. I'm half tempted to join it myself. Still, I feel like it's better to raise a suspicion now, rather than wait and let it fester. The gut wants what the gut wants.

[Telrao]

32 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Sorry I should rephrase my question - what do you think of the Ash wagon? It started off popular, then died down a bit, and then rose back again. Like you said, Ash hadn’t posted much so there aren’t many arguments to be made against him unless said argument is e!Ash activity trends. 

Oh, I see...

I think the trend was a remnant of suspicion from the last round. Not too certain what it could mean, but I think people are trying to spread out suspicion o_O ahhhhh

33 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Anyone wanna join me on TKN or Wiz? :3 The back-and-forth I just had with TKN reminds me of LG90 when E!TKN I think had a similar argument against me. 

I dunno... Wiz doesn't seem as malicious this round (sorry) and I have no clue about TKN lol :sweat:

[Kasimir]

2 hours ago, Telrao said:

Okay, I voted for Xino off of gut feeling. Initially I voted for Kas just for kicks (as you do), but then decided v!Kas. So, I turned to the next suspicious person - which was Xino. Yes, it was a gut vote - I'm not familiar enough with people's playing styles to make an informed vote.

That's fair, I've been known to vote me for kicks too  

Any chance you can try to articulate what about Xino set your gut off?

2 hours ago, Telrao said:

his decision making is quite suspicious to me.

What about it?

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

Anyone wanna join me on TKN or Wiz? :3 The back-and-forth I just had with TKN reminds me of LG90 when E!TKN I think had a similar argument against me. 

Can you pull it for me? It's late and I'm tired and I had to save my pen because I accidentally put yoghurt in it. I was sort of leaning a bit positive on TKN for his altercation with you, and am curious if you can show me what about it flags it in a negative way for you. (Why are we repeating this...literally the same deal with Wiz too ._. )

52 minutes ago, Sart said:

Fair. It's just that I feel like I've fallen into a holding pattern with this game in general. I'll make one or two tentative votes, then retract them after getting basically any push back. I usually end up on poke votes as a safe option. Then when I do swing for the fences, I usually make such a wild claim that it's immediately read as nonsensical. I'm just tired of it.

I don't understand this and am now feeling the fact I don't understand this could be indicative of V!Sart.

53 minutes ago, Sart said:

So, what the hell, I'll just go where my gut's telling me. Xino. TJ. I really didn't like his vote on Ash. If he's more suspicious of me than Ash, why vote Ash and not me? That's an easy enough train to get going, since Kasimir, who is being very active, had already voted for me. It wasn't even halfway through the cycle. I just feel like the vote was too opportunistic. Plus, it lets him pivot onto my execution for the next cycle in a village Ash world.

Don't fully disagree with this, as I had a similar take. Bolded last bit is weird to me.

54 minutes ago, Sart said:

Having just made this post, I feel really weird about it. I already know it's going to get attacked from two different angles. One, it's way too retaliatory. I get my first vote and I'm already defending myself? That's not a good look. And two, this is a tacit defense of Ash yet again. I'm sure Kas is going to read it as he and I being on the same team. I'm not sure what alignment he is, but I've now voted on two separate counter trains. Fun times. It's difficult to draw anything from I'm busy right now. It's why we have the Contribution Crusade in the first place, so I understand why the train is happening. I'm half tempted to join it myself. Still, I feel like it's better to raise a suspicion now, rather than wait and let it fester. The gut wants what the gut wants.

I don't know how I feel about this part, but you've called neither of my qualms actually. I just find this by and large a very self-aware/defensive post, which doesn't really seem to be something I'd expect from a player who has exactly one vote's worth of pressure and isn't being fronted as a CW option. I myself just produced a disgruntled post arguing that I feel you are more Village than Evil in my reads at this juncture. 

Iiiiiiiiiii...don't know what to think anymore.

I still lean V on Sart right now so I'm gonna just...

*mutters*

Ah ye gods. 

I feel this is more in V!Sart's meta. I get Heron vibes off this. If I have the time, I'll relook LG92, if not, I'll check L82 since that's the one E!Sart triggered my intuitions strongly.

[The Wandering Wizard]

4 hours ago, Archer said:

Who do you think is the same type of confused as you? If yours is genuine, people with similar stances should also be village 

Sart. Everyone else feels less confused. Kas is kas confused in a very village Kas like way. So those two are the only ones I'm really getting any reads on at all. Most feel slippery when I try to read them and I can't remember what they've done. 

*Sighs*

I reread once again and I agree with Sart's gut. TJ's posts feel crafted to me.

Xino Sart

[The Wandering Wizard]

NO THAT WAS NOT WHAT I MEANT TO DO I MEANT TO DO THIS.

Sart TJ

GAHHHHHH

[Telrao]

43 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

That's fair, I've been known to vote me for kicks too  

Any chance you can try to articulate what about Xino set your gut off?

What about it?

Well, last game when I played with Xino, he was fairly quiet. Not sure if that was Elim strat or just inactivity tho o_o

Alpha's decision making is rather wishy-washy - but ig that could be because he's new (not as new as me but STILL) and in QF65 he said he enjoyed playing mind games. THEREFORE it is possible that he is trying to mess with us by changing is votes a lot. OR it could be that he is confused like me aouhsdigasbd

[The Unknown Ajah]

That post from Sart feels weird. Don't know what to think of it yet.

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

It is your opinion that your posts should not be AI. I disagreed then and continue to disagree. Given your recent streak of early game engagement, I consider it reasonable to ascribe a negative read to you for making two posts that were peripheral and engaged with nothing significant. 

I didn't say that they should not be AI, just that I didn't think they were very AI. Plus, you're basically saying the absence of AIness is what makes them AI, so whatever. Here's a list of my first two (ish) posts from the last couple of games:

Spoiler

 

Both of these are very cursory and passive, I think, but you do have a point that they interact with the thread more than my first post in this game, but really not that much more than my second.

My other thing of note that is present in both of these is a duality. It's a quote and a statement, that statement is pretty non-interactive and passive, but the quote is more relevant. 

The original post here before the edit is quite passive and very similar to this games, I think.

The duality is also present here, though this time you could say that there are two dualities. Duality the first, two responses, one, irrelevant, joking, very like my first post, the other is slightly more game relevant (really relevant when you consider my role), but still quite joking and cursory, more like my second post this game. Duality the second, original post, and edit. One mildly cursory and slightly passive, the other an incitement to action, very tied to my role, and just about the opposite of passive.

This is pretty passive, in the grand scheme of things. I make a fake claim, but it's a very boring fake claim and pretty cursory. 

This is once again a duality as well. A joke and a roleless claim. One very cursory, the other very passive.

This is once again very cursory, very passive. It's technically engaging in the thread a little, but it's also pretty joking. 

The duality is less present here, but one could say the post and the quote of myself is basically the same. 

 

Wall post, but even still it's only about ⅓ relevant, the rest is minor jokes.

The duality here is of quotes vs the vote. As I've already said, the quotes are about ⅓ relevant, but the vote was mostly a joke. About 50/50 relevance wise.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, but my argument is that I split what would normally be my first post into two separate posts this game, and if you take them together, they seem pretty similar to the other games.

[Kasimir]

K. Went back and did a look at Wiz's posts.

@_Stick_: I can't fully quite bring myself to back a Wiz train, but I won't interfere with it. He's very much in  territory for me. I appreciate it's kind of sad because we seem to be having differing reads on TKN as well, but to quote Sart, the heart wants what it wants and I don't really feel alright with assenting fully to E!Wiz. Evaluation appended below.

Wiz: D1

Spoiler

Comments on the song parody and rollover time.

Poke vote on Ash.

Explanation to Alpha's confusion on voting.

Commentary, low-stakes agreement with Araris's read. Slight  because nothing new added, alongside hedging.

Comment on pleasing Alv because of ties.

Cites negative gut, swaps to Xino. Weak  - this is a very obviously bad-looking vote from Wiz and E!Wiz should not experience difficulty calling that out. E!Wiz tends to overcase, not undercase - cf. Szeth vote in MR61. Weak because I don't tend to like issuing Village reads for play that isn't obvously Village. (Or to put it another way, for not being Elim.)

When challenged, cites gut and Xino sheeping. Why not just say it up front? Time lag means impossible to give Wiz too much credit for this. Vote count should be bigger deal than sheeping. Unclear why this doesn't jump out to Wiz, and in light of Xino actually producing a vc, likely indicates lack of attention to the game. Weak  - weak because I overall expect an Elim who realises Xino presents an opportunity to also realise that is one awful votecount.

Genuinely feel E!Wiz has better explanations than to double down on gut. Xino sheeping + early train explosion should look awful, and is a reasonable position to hold. Wiz has, by this point, over an hour. Why is no one in the Elim doc pointing this out to E!Wiz? Weak 

Not wrong that Wiz's Rushu point is orthogonal. Asks Telrao and Alpha about vote switch, but is otherwise disengaged.

Mentioning that he isn't being present.

PM plans.

Finds Xino confusing on re-read and says Archer is weird. Doesn't articulate. Worth flagging. Am sympathetic to having a rough landing but feel there's no real showing his working here.

Not really sure Sart is the same type of confused tbh. Sart is confused but he has a clear gut he's following. Am wondering if this is meant to band with Sart whom I'm sort of defending and sort of just confused about. More or less sheeping Sart. Weak  - E!Wiz sometimes struggles with generating suspicions.

 

In summation: difficulty generating suspicions and low engagement with the game is not a good look. I do think this is consistent with a quiet early Village game, e.g. AG9 on Wiz's part, but have tentatively awarded at points for what is, in my view, an extremely isolated and unconvincing push on Xino which really shouldn't have happened in most reasonable E!Wiz worlds I can think of. It's a weak  award because I don't really believe that Village points for not playing like an E!you should be weighted the same as Village points for playing like V!you.

I'm not really fond of the lack of articulation at multiple junctures, e.g. @The Wandering Wizard states he is confused by Xino and thinks Sart is the same sort of confused as him. If you're re-reading, you should be able to articulate what makes you confused, or at least try to. (Hi Wiz, would be a good time to flesh it out if you can  ) There's little interest in solving IMO and multiple points of pure reactivity. Part of me thinks E!Wiz tries harder. But again, that's not really much of a defense for not appearing Village.

Net evaluation: Probably somewhere in the low  range but an outright  doesn't feel right to me. If I split the difference, it's probably . Make of it what you will. So I'm more or less at the 'CW Wiz if you want but I won't help' place.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

5 hours ago, Sart said:

As an aside, where the heck is @Devotary of Spontaneity? She was on the shard 8 hours ago, but she haven't said anything yet. I'm sure it's village indicative, but I just want to hear from her.

Reading posts doesn't mean having the time to respond to 7-8 pages of them. Perhaps something will happen eventually, but this is becoming a concerning trend that I'm not able to put concerted effort into games. We'll see.

[The Wandering Wizard]

27 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I'm not really fond of the lack of articulation at multiple junctures, e.g. @The Wandering Wizard states he is confused by Xino and thinks Sart is the same sort of confused as him. If you're re-reading, you should be able to articulate what makes you confused, or at least try to. (Hi Wiz, would be a good time to flesh it out if you can  ) There's little interest in solving IMO and multiple points of pure reactivity. Part of me thinks E!Wiz tries harder. But again, that's not really much of a defense for not appearing Village.

 

What makes me confused is my just sheer lack of ability to read anything from the posts or even remember what is in them. My eyes just kind of skim over them for some reason. It's happened to me in multiple previous games before. 

And not I didn't quite think Sart was the same confused as me, but more just kind of generally confused. It felt geniune to me.

Idk my brain is fuzzing right now. And huh, I've been having trouble diverting enough of my attention to focus on the game. Maybe tomorrow when my brain isn't fuzzing it'll be easier.

[Mat]

Ten ish hours! (aka I’m signing off and basically won’t be back till rollover)

Official and Likely Correct VC:

• Ashbringer (4): xinoehp512, |TJ|, Kasimir, TheAlpha929
• Araris Valerian (1): Ashbringer
• Telrao (1): Araris Valerian
• The Known Novel (1): _Stick_
• _Stick_ (1): The Known Novel
• Sart (1): Archer
• TheAlpha929 (1): Telrao
• |TJ| (2): Sart, The Wandering Wizard

[|TJ|]

 

Bah, it seems I become busy only when I decide to play SE. 

I'll try to catch up for a bit, then back to work. 

19 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

At this point I don’t think Sart is evil because his self-assured tone in that post gives off the same vibe as QF65b!Sart making his accusation against Archer.

I want to point out that the self-assured tone of Sart is not an alignment indicative for him. I used to think so, but LG92 dispelled that theory. In a past game, I think most likely LG67, he caught e!Striker with single very strong assertive post which made me think it was village indicative of him. But he did the same thing when accusing Aman in LG92 of being evil because of fake-claiming the presence of football roles. 

18 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Yeah, what I just mean is that there are clear implications for Wiz's alignment off any view you have on TJ's, if only because Wiz emerges in a slice of players that TJ is interested in/focusing attention on, and currently is sus of, but in a watered down way, so I'm curious if you're thinking through what those are.

15 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

I think Wiz is suspicious independent of TJ but could also theoretically be evil with TJ because I don’t think TJ has indicated immediate willingness to go after Wiz. Not without Ash’s flip. 

I have issues figuring out players who have joined while I was gone like Wiz, Silho, and even though TKN  is an older player, I include here because he frankly feels like a brand new player to me. Basically, all these players feel newly joined to me, and I always ignore looking for AI in new players until later cycles because they always feel suspicious to me. Their AI usually because clear automatically as the game progresses. 

15 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Doesn't Rushu also keep the PMs open?

I'll second Archer, why the switch?

Edit: Also @Telrao why'd you switch as well?

Though Wiz seems to be doing a lot of asking (not exactly helpful questions) and a lot less solving, hmm. This appears to be faking contribution.

11 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

Several comments:

1. You cannot seriously be saying that c1 passivity is AI for me, later on, for sure, but not c1.

2. My village games have three purposes. Win, remember what it's like to be in the village mindset, and use some elim habits I've noticed to make it harder to ID me as elim in the later games. 

3. So what I'm saying is, just because it was an elim tell previously, doesn't mean it is going forward. But still, draw your own conclusions, this is just me explaining nearly every single mix that has happened or will happen in the future.

See, I cannot not read this a suspicious. Which is why I ignore it and make it a problem for later.

4 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Sorry I should rephrase my question - what do you think of the Ash wagon? It started off popular, then died down a bit, and then rose back again. Like you said, Ash hadn’t posted much so there aren’t many arguments to be made against him unless said argument is e!Ash activity trends. 

If v!Ash, then it means that Xino train wasn't elim motivated... which leads to confusion regarding Sart. Smh. 

4 hours ago, Sart said:

I really didn't like his vote on Ash. If he's more suspicious of me than Ash, why vote Ash and not me? That's an easy enough train to get going, since Kasimir, who is being very active, had already voted for me. It wasn't even halfway through the cycle. I just feel like the vote was too opportunistic. Plus, it lets him pivot onto my execution for the next cycle in a village Ash world.

A. Nope, I was the first to mention suspicion on you. Kas hadn't voted for you at the time of my post.
B. How was it opportunistic? And I have no idea where you got the last sentence from. I suspected you and Ash independently and never mentioned any connection between you both. 

And smh haven't you guys ever experienced this - You suspect someone more but you feel someone else has a higher chance of being evil? Emotion v Logic argument here. 

4 hours ago, Sart said:

Having just made this post, I feel really weird about it. I already know it's going to get attacked from two different angles. One, it's way too retaliatory. I get my first vote and I'm already defending myself? That's not a good look. And two, this is a tacit defense of Ash yet again. I'm sure Kas is going to read it as he and I being on the same team. I'm not sure what alignment he is, but I've now voted on two separate counter trains. Fun times. It's difficult to draw anything from I'm busy right now. It's why we have the Contribution Crusade in the first place, so I understand why the train is happening. I'm half tempted to join it myself. Still, I feel like it's better to raise a suspicion now, rather than wait and let it fester. The gut wants what the gut wants.

Too self aware? But why post about being self aware if evil? I've not seen Sart post like this so I'm not sure how to read this tbh. But I think I suspect Sart less than I did from the start of the cycle.

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I don't understand this and am now feeling the fact I don't understand this could be indicative of V!Sart.

Same tbh, I expected a pushback against Archer because why should a plea for someone to be active be accompanied by a poke vote in like mid-cycle? Or why the lack of one is suspicious?

3 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I reread once again and I agree with Sart's gut. TJ's posts feel crafted to me.

Crafted how? That feels like a very generic statement. You did not mention it when Kas felt it was odd, and neither when Stick mentioned it. You're only joining in now when there's a vote on me. Wiz Ash

[Kasimir]

K I actually need more sleep, so brief catch up places:

25 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Too self aware? But why post about being self aware if evil? I've not seen Sart post like this so I'm not sure how to read this tbh. But I think I suspect Sart less than I did from the start of the cycle.

It raised these memories for me.

Quote

Finally, there's me. Look, my gut is a Dark Friend. If Beagle is not an Elim, I haven't voted for a single Evil person all game. I'm not the greatest village player, but this is a new low, even for me. I completely understand where the votes on me are coming from. Honestly, if my positions were reversed, I would probably vote on me. The only argument I have is a role distribution one, but that's tenuous at best. However, I might as well claim at this point, since I'm likely to die sooner or later. I'm a Village Smoker. My guess for distribution is that the Village has one of every power role, but that there are some additional Mistborn sprinkled around, including one or potentially two on the Elim team. I have no way to prove my role, because I frankly haven't been using it. I've been on so many small trains that it didn't make sense to protect my vote, and I didn't want to block any Seekers as I became increasingly suspicious. The only time I used it was Day 1. I smoked myself and Onyx Flamingo. I was going to make a flirtatious PM Day 1, since we're the two Casanovas in town, but I never got around to it.

Context: V!Sart and Rhino are 2/2 in votes, this is sort of early in the Day.

I think this is tonally more Village from him. I don't recall seeing E!him make that sort of response. My main question is why I am seeing this as a response to a single vote on D1 when he's not near being a viable train.

25 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Same tbh, I expected a pushback against Archer because why should a plea for someone to be active be accompanied by a poke vote in like mid-cycle? Or why the lack of one is suspicious?

Basically it's what makes me believe that Sart's response is coming more from his heart than anything. And so I am reading it as more Village because it doesn't feel calculated.

25 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Crafted how? That feels like a very generic statement. You did not mention it when Kas felt it was odd, and neither when Stick mentioned it. You're only joining in now when there's a vote on me. Wiz Ash

Sigh. Not wrong. Look bhai if you are sus of Wiz I get it as I've been going on that edge with regard to his disinterest in solving and sheeping. One thing/question that I don't understand only is - in E!Wiz world, why the blazes doesn't he at any point just frame the Xino vote as being both about sheeping and Xino's fourth vote? Xino put a votecount right there, for an Elim to recognise this looks like a bad vote (opportunism!) but to fail to hammer it in the way Wiz did (half-hearted gut statement) just feels oddly conflicted.

Edited to add:

TJ/Ash E/E doesn't really make all that much sense.

Worth noting here that TJ's Wiz vote opens a new train in a cycle when he's really busy and potentially exposes TJ to risk since it reduces the Ash train to having a single vote lead over TJ in a cycle with high volatility so far. Wouldn't overemphasise this because he can still make a self-pres vote later, but it's unnecessary risk IMO especially if he's busy.

Weak point for it.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Why did so many people vote for Ash? That doesn't make a lot of sense given his few posts. @TheAlpha929 what were your reasons? Xino follows Kas but doesn't like Wiz's switch. Araris wanted to vote for someone who already had a vote. Kas preferred killing Ash to xino  which isn't the pressing concern now. TJ just thinkg e!Ash ->e!Wiz + v!Xino. The people who voted Ash then retracted are more likely evil than those who stayed if Ash is evil or they didn't want a runaway train on a villager since nobody else has been in serious danger.

So Wiz, TJ, Araris. TJ and Wiz are voting for each other. Don't think Telrao's vote for Xino was very safe since so many people showed up to criticize it, so not sure about Araris's vote. I'll go with Araris then.  TJ and Wiz can sort themselves out. I won't be around for rollover. Not going to do anything with RP characters either since they keep slipping away from their intended characteristics.

[Ashbringer]

Okay RL thing is… probably resolved, just drained me a lot. But I’m a college student so what else is new.

And honestly, idk what time I’ll wake up tomorrow or if it’ll be in time for rollover, and this whole situation is reminding me of a few LGs back.

 

So hi everyone, I’m the Lopen! Or I ate Lopen. However that would work. I’d feel bad but AraRaash wouldn’t.

[Kasimir]

Last shot. Unlikely to be on for rest of the Day or to have bandwidth.

Current Reads:

: Kas

Self-explanatory. I'm Vikemon!

: Alpha, Stick, Xino, Sart, Araris, TJ(????)

Hoo boy. If I stop tearing my hair out, this is probably everyone I have some reason to Village read. Could italicise Sart as being someone I'm more unsure of, and credit for early D1 only goes so far for Alpha. I liked Araris's posts but then I have this issue of always wanting Araris to be Village so I could easily be overrating him. Think I also oversuppress TJ sometimes and I really vibed with his last post. Enough to cautiously upgrade.

: JNV, TKN, Wiz, Telrao, Devo

No strong or decisive valenced read on anyone in Shakomon. I sort of want to  JNV but don't think there's any real basis for this. I like TKN's exchange with Stick but am waiting on what Stick refers to as a LG90 interaction because I don't know what she's talking about. I have been all over the place for Wiz and the fact I'm willing to be down with a Wiz train despite not wanting to join it indicates Wiz can't be beyond Shakomon for me. I get where Stick and TJ are coming from, my gut just doesn't agree, and I think that's partly centred in a playstyle read, and more strongly centred in the thought that it's hard for me to make sense of the way E!Wiz pushed Xino. No strong read for Telrao, and I sort of want to Devo tonally but that's neither here nor there; same issue with JNV.

: Ash, Archer

This is probably an indication that if you just post, I will probably somehow talk myself into giving you a  somewhere. Which is sort of what's up with Ash. With regard to Archer, just the hanging back and the Sart interaction make me wary. 

It's a bit too narrow a PoE so I'd probably functionally be willing to let anyone in  die.

Aaaaand ninja-ed by Ash.

4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

So hi everyone, I’m the Lopen! Or I ate Lopen. However that would work. I’d feel bad but AraRaash wouldn’t.

>>

Tfw you theorise the Lopen is Evil...

[Telrao]

10 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

So hi everyone, I’m the Lopen! Or I ate Lopen. However that would work. I’d feel bad but AraRaash wouldn’t.

Storms what-

*remembers the rules*

Oh yeahhhhhh THE Lopeeennnnn

Ash ya got a joke for us?  

[Kasimir]

4 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Ten ish hours! (aka I’m signing off and basically won’t be back till rollover)

K. I sent Mat a question in my GM PM but functionally a good amount depends IMO on whether only our unique roles receive roleblock messages. If anyone receives a roleblock message, then I'm willing to swap trains. The reason is pragmatism: I do think the Lopen is likely to be but I also dislike running off a distro assumption D1 to keelhaul. (The rejoinder here is that the unique roles are unique so until one of them is killed, it's difficult to really make an assessment here.) Likely Cord is  one way or another, we'd probably be too screwed if Cord wasn't, but that being said, there's still a few ways this could pan out, including all unique roles being Village and a slightly larger Elim team.

If just about anyone receives a roleblock message, then effectively, we know whether Ash is putting in the kill or not. I'd be fine with that provisional/pragmatic clear for the moment.

Mat does say he won't be back until rollover, so I'm probably just going to have to make an executive decision here. I think I'm erring on the side of caution.

4 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edited Mat's vc, sorry Mat

• Ashbringer (3): xinoehp512, Kasimir, TheAlpha929
• Araris Valerian (2): Ashbringer, Devo
• Telrao (1): Araris Valerian
• The Known Novel (1): _Stick_
• _Stick_ (1): The Known Novel
• Sart (1): Archer
• TheAlpha929 (1): Telrao
• |TJ| (2): Sart, The Wandering Wizard
• Wiz (1): |TJ|

I guess I have two options. I can unvote and just leave the NAs to sort out the rest of the mess, or I can probably give it my best shot. Well, three options. I can make a new train and let the Devil take the hindmost.

Sigh.

Why is this my problem ._.

Sigh let me not regret this.

Wiz, Ash

I don't know I fully believe this, but I don't know if there's gonna be appetite for an Archer train, I prefer not to see Araris or TJ D1ed, and if I'm hardcommitting to playing it safe until Mat gets back...¯\_(ツ)_/¯