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It's too quiet around here. Probably the holiday has something to do with it, though. I had family over yesterday, and will be doing more family things today. Brief thoughts, to be followed by a vote later in the day if the opportunity arises: Ok, the mistborn killed Devotary - a good call on their part, they were the most suspicious of the asterion swing bunch. Araris' caution about the possibility of an Elim bus on Ornstein is well-taken. (It could just be the remarks of an Eliminator trying to direct attention away from their attempt to save a compatriot, though.) Now I'll add my voice to the discussion on inactivity, a direct rebuttal to @Araris Valerian and @Droughtbringer - this bit is a bit meta, but since it involves this game, I'll keep it in this thread instead of moving the discussion to the SE meta thread: The vast majority of our games seem like they are plagued with high inactivity, starting from D1. This is exacerbated by a trend of anemic D1 discussion followed by a lynch on a target that is often only lynched because the established consensus says that lynching D1 is ideal. From there, the game settles into a pattern of lynching the most prolific or active players because they put out enough volume that something in there looks suspicious. After a game has followed up that pattern, the endgame is seldom interesting. I've personally played a game where the endgame consisted of 4 active players, almost none of whom posted more than two or three times in the cycle. There was almost no discussion, and there were still more than a dozen players nominally in the game. Now, the established consensus is correct in the abstract. In Mafia, forgoing a D1 lynch is a poor play. But in our recent games, we often come to the end with only one or two of our players contributing at all. There is a decent amount of discussion going on about how we can implement high-level community standards to deal with the situation, but any long-term, sustainable solution has to come from the players themselves, as a community. One of the contributing factors to the problem is that we tend to lynch the most active and talkative players. Mostly because, in an environment where most of the players say little to nothing, the players that actually post end up making incriminating mistakes - generally regardless of whether they are Elims or town. Now, it is often the optimal play - and I'm not suggesting that we deliberately play sub-optimally. However, on D1, there is often so little information to go on that lynching an inactive could allow active players to talk and say more over the course of the game. As a result, our later lynches would be more informed, as there would be more interactions between players to build suspicions off of and to analyze after the alignment flip. Certainly, the D1 inactive lynch garners almost nothing on its own, but I feel it makes up for it by improving the quality of later cycle's discussion. In fact, it might be a decent delaying play on its own - if we don't have any good leads, lynching an inactive is better than building a weak case against someone who is actually contributing to the game. Take a short-term hit on the amount of information gained in the immediate future in anticipation of a long-term payoff. Again, I don't advocate choosing plays that are obviously against the best interest of the town. If the discussion D1 has been fruitful, and somebody has gathered a great deal of suspicion, and as a result there is an obvious lynch choice (or several that are being argued over), then that's wonderful and my suggestion doesn't apply. And the end goal of our community ought to be to get to the place where every game goes like that, where only a couple of players or even none at all are long-term inactive. Like I said, this as all been a little bit meta, and I'm sorry to sidetrack the discussion. I'll be back after church and family holiday gatherings to reappraise the gamestate and make longer, more intelligent commentary that can hopefully put my money where my mouth is wrt activity and contributing to the game. Finally, @A Joe in the Bush, is there any way we can get a 24 hour extension, in recognition of the holiday? For myself, it would be helpful, and I expect that others find themselves in similar situations.

Hi - A long, varied post because such excellent activity to finish out the year! I totally agree with what I've seen online (though I don't read reddit because I find is horrible to navigate due to that upvote/downvote thing which means things aren't chronological ), but oddly everyone who I know in real life who has read the books (these are people who are not involved in fan communities) thinks the romantic arc is in mid-swing and eventually the choice will be Kaladin. We're not dealing with a huge sample size here, but these were people I purposely didn't influence (given my disappointment in the arc so I was looking for independent viewpoints) who came down this way. I'm sure you've elaborated on this before, but what did you see in OB which was inconsistent with Adolin's character in the prior books? I definitely agree with you on the lack of development point. In general, I think all of Adolin, Shallan and Kaladin stagnated (or regressed) in this book, and I think that was intentional as their "growth" will occur in later books. If that growth never happens, I will be disappointed, but since I generally enjoyed the story we did see (even if it did lack character growth), I am happy with OB. Of course, both Shallan and Kaladin got plenty of page time (Shallan especially), and Adolin didn't, so that would be disappointing for an Adolin fan. I also think that Shallan and Kaladin had increased depth added to their characters even if no concrete growth occurred, whereas Adolin didn't really (in my opinion), so that is another thing to be disappointed about. But I'm curious to hear what inconsistencies you see! I feel like people tend to fall into three groups: (i) likes Shadolin (or Adolin) so are happy with the ending of OB (one side of this is dislikes Shalladin, so therefore likes Shadolin better), (ii) does not want to see any more romance in the books than absolutely necessary, so therefore are happy with the ending of OB so any possible future romantic development is eliminated (this one actually seems the most aggressive on this board) and (iii) maybe emotionally feels either (i) or (ii) or even pro-Shalladin but doesn't trust/believe in the literary foreshadowing. I think with (iii) it doesn't matter how much you put in front of someone, but until the overt storyline shows Shallan and Kaladin in an explicit relationship, no amount of evidence will matter. For (i) and (ii), I do feel like some of the hostility or lack of desire to engage is because those groups do not want to see any evidence which goes against their strong feelings. So it's hard to get an explanation with that dynamic! I so agree with your second point; I'm on a second full read (after a full reread of WoK and WoR post-OB), and I am loving OB on redo more than WoR! There's so much to dig into. We do get a lot of info dumping to resolve some of the mysteries, but much, much more is teased and left hanging for future resolution. I do trust that there will be future resolution, so I don't see this as a bad thing. Other may vary on this! I will (as you know!) object to your cigar is just a cigar analogy. I think it's one thing to stretch to try and find evidence to support a position. (We've all been there.) But here, it's just below the surface, and I feel like it smacks you in the face upon a reread. So I would say... cigar paper covering a firework is not a cigar; it's a firework which will explode in your face if you try to light it Since this is my favorite exercise... passages which jump out to me upon a reread (currently towards the beginning of part 3.) First, just a note about how much Kaladin and Shallan interact in Part 2 which is not shown - flight to Thaylen City (that one is the most obvious), flying to the surrounding mountains to sketch Urithiru (per Shallan's sketch which has Kaladin in it), mentions by Shallan of conversations she had with Kaladin (flying to TC, how many people he could bring to Kholinar), mentions by Kaladin of conversations he had with Shallan (hilariously his "pointed suggestion" that she not bring Gaz to Kholinar, lol.) There's a striking contrast between the one scene in part 2 we see of Shallan and Kaladin together (where she draws him after his spat with Jasnah) and the little hints we get that a lot more interaction occurred. Once we see them interacting in Kholinar, there's a certain level of familiarity which follows from this part 2 interaction. Before OB, their only one-on-one interaction was the chasm scenes (which was interaction forced by circumstance), so the amount of interaction afterwards is a definite contrast. In particular, why did Kaladin ask Shallan to go to TC? She says (to Elhokar) it's because she has stormlight and could survive a fall, but so does Renarin and he's technically one of Kaladin's men. Renarin seems like the much more logical choice. Second, below is from the flight to Kholinar. Just look at this independently... which boy is Shallan flirting with here?? Third, Shallan's justification of making Kaladin hideous for their entrance to Kholinar is interesting. She makes Adolin a handsome older man (see Kaladin's impression below - if we needed any Kadolin evidence on Kaladin's side, this is a rather flattering description ) and then tells Kaladin she had to make him grotesque since he "has a way of sticking in people's heads", hmmmmmm. Anyways, I know you're solidly in group (iii) that I set out above (won't be convinced until Shallan and Kaladin are explicitly together) so we can definitely agree to disagree, but while I absolutely agree that in WoR and OB part 1 there was a love story between Adolin and Shallan with Kaladin occasionally inserted, after that, to me it is reading like a love story between Kaladin and Shallan with Adolin occasionally inserted. My current thinking is that is why the ending felt so jarring; it's not like we had two equal romances going on. We had one developing romance (not like it was perfect, I agree the "I wish I could hide my feelings" scene was bad) and one romance which stopped developing a quarter of the way through the book (even the "big" Shallan/Adolin scene after part one, their talk on Honor's Path, is interrupted by Kaladin.) So, a very, very long way of saying that even absent the literary foreshadowing, I don't see a cigar. I saw a cigar in WoR. I saw a cigar in the preview chapters. But after that, it disintegrated. As @SLNC notes (thank for the shoutout!), I have come to believe Adolin doesn't have that strong of feelings for Shallan. Or if he does, Brandon has gone out of his way to make it seem like he doesn't in Adolin's PoVs. So I see Shalladin as actually the pro-Adolin ship. I really like Adolin, and I'm hoping he gets some better development and has some emotional struggles which he emerges from all the stronger. (I think there is some evidence for Dark Adolin, but that wouldn't be my preferred path.) And as part of this, since I am an incurable romantic in literature, I really want Adolin to have a romance that rocks his world and makes him feel strong emotions. We know this is possible for Brandon to show even for secondary characters (look at all of the strong romantic emotions in Mistborn Era 1 outside of Vin/Elend), and I want to see him feel those things! Navani has drastically less viewpoints than Adolin, and in her PoVs, we can feel her emotions for Dalinar. (Her "Justice" chapter in WoR is heartbreaking and then exhilarating.) I want Adolin to get that treatment, and right now, the romance with Shallan is just not giving that to him.

@Humming Yes wot does mean Wheel of Time. Reading WOT is what made me really love reading. Sometimes I accidentally call Kaladin Rand (not that I think they are at all alike) I just got in the habit of always thinking about Rand. @ILuvHats I am really hoping for better resolution for Shallan. The end of OB was not at all satisfying. Sanderson just did not set up for it. The Girl who stood up (the chapter with Wit) made me think the best resolution for Shallan is that she forgives herself. There is no hint of that at the end of OB but she gets married and I am pretty sure she hates herself. I think something drastic has to occur for Shallan to confront her problems. I expect another break down like what happened in Kholinar when Grund died. (Was his name Grund? I mean the boy she was trying to feed.) About Adolin. I do like him. I like Maya and I hope he revives her. He seems on his way. He's a side character and I'm fine with him staying that way. His character would be better if he struggled with anything at all. I am trying to imagine that Shal and Ado have a good marriage in the future books. I think Sanderson means for Shal and Ado to stay together, but it really does not work for me. If Shal and Ado have a really good marriage in the next book with zero problems much like their relationship so far I think this will bother me enough that I will drop SA. Not sure. It will depend on what else is in the books. I read SA for Kaladin. He is my favorite character. It may be I'll keep reading for his sake and just downgrade Shallan to another female character Sanderson has written poorly.

Agreed with a lot of this. I felt disappointed that a lot of the supposed flaws we were being told about over the previous books regarding Adolin (of which there really aren't many to begin with) seemed to never get any screen time, they were never used to explore the character more deeply, or even make him interesting to read. If Adolin has trouble keeping women, well gee, Brandon, I sure would have liked to have seen how something like that would have impacted his budding relationship with Shallan. Isn't that one of the biggest rules of character development? Don't tell me something about a character and expect me to take your word for it. SHOW ME. Show me how this thing impacts the character in their choices, actions, conversations, interactions! I would have appreciated the Shallan and Adolin romance and ending a lot more if either of them had been made to, I don't know, work for it? Same goes for his (supposed) anger issues. If Adolin can be a hot head, then why is he so chill about seeing the one woman he wants to actually be with (again supposedly) leering at a rival, or said rival leering at her. Couldn't we see him get at least a little mad? He doesn't have to act on it and go and punch Kaladin, but geez, at least let me know he is human by actually thinking about it. I think you're right, that Adolin essentially fills whatever narrative need the author has for other characters. I just can't understand why so many people are in love with Adolin as a LITERARY CHARACTER after the end of OB. Especially after the promise and potential of him going into it was so wasted. If I knew him IRL, we'd be best buds, because who wouldn't? As a character in fiction, he is tepid, and boring to read. I'm probably a little more extreme in my view of him than you are, but well, a character who has so many connections to most of our main POVs, and even is the primary romantic partner for our female lead, then I sure as hell expect more character development and thought than what we got.

Ooh, a vote. This seems familiar. I'm sensing a pattern here. Well, when in Rome... Apophis.

I think I have an idea. It's kind of a crazy one. It might even be a terrible one. But hey, here it is: QF: Alpha Complex Introduction Welcome, Citizen, to Alpha Complex!! It is the dawn of year 214 of the Computer, and Alpha Complex is threatened by traitors! Friend computer wants YOU to help fight the commie-mutant-traitor threat! Sign up today for your first mission! The Computer is making a 1 TIME OFFER to promote the first 10 volunteers to RED clearance! The nature of your first mission is above your current security clearance, until you accept said mission. Furthermore, the existence of this mission is above your current security clearance, thus, failure to enlist for this mission would be treasonous. Rules and Regulations 1. Knowledge of certain rules is treason. 2. This mission requires 10 participants. Any fewer and the mission will not run. No more than 10 participants will be accepted on this mission. 3. You are a troubleshooter. Your job is to find trouble, and shoot it. 4. Traitors, mutants, communists, improper paperwork, and [REDACTED] are all trouble. The Computer said so, and the Computer is your friend. 5. Friend computer has generously decided to supply each participant with 3* complimentary clones. 6. Cycles last 24 hours, unless the Computer says they do not. 7. Participants may covertly perform 2 actions every cycle. The following exceptions apply: [THIS INFORMATION IS YELLOW CLEARANCE AND ABOVE]. Please take this time to remember that the Computer is your friend, and hiding things from the Computer may constitute grounds for fining, probation, and/or summary execution. 8. Roleplay may influence the mission. Attempts to unduly leverage this fact are treasonous, and citizens found to be engaging in such activity will summarily be executed. 9. Inactivity is treasonous, and dereliction of duty will be met with summary execution. 10. You have been granted clearance for PMs, even group PMs. Friend Computer would like to take this time to remind you to avoid using this privilege for the purposes of traitorous collusion. 11. You are of RED clearance. Wear red at all times. Do not enter areas above RED or INFRARED clearance. For your safety, please obey citizens above RED clearance. 12. Upon completion of the mission, citizens will be appropriately debriefed. [CENSORED AT YOUR SECURITY CLEARANCE] 17. In the highly unlikely scenario that a troubleshooter finds themselves in mortal danger while on a mission, DON'T PANIC**. [CENSORED AT YOUR SECURITY CLEARANCE] 213. I've never played Paranoia, and I have no storming idea what I'm doing. This information is above your clearance level. Knowledge that this information is above your clearance is also above your clearance level. 214. Fun is Mandatory. *Some of you may have heard rumors that troubleshooters are customarily given 5 clones, and that the Computer is in error to generously grant you 3 clones. Such rumors are obviously the work of the Commies, and should be reported. Any allegations that the Friend Computer may be in error are treasonous. **Unless ordered to do so by a citizen of higher clearance, or the Computer. So... If it wasn't already clear, this game is not meant to be a serious, competitive game. Indeed, it's nearly the opposite of serious and competitive. It would be fastpaced and chaotic (it is, after all, inspired by Paranoia). The bar would be low for concentrated analysis. The sole objective would be fun (see rule#214). It is probable that I am not equipped to design all of this. If the idea were approved I would want to partner with somebody to figure this out. It is my hope that this might be a novel way to address some of the matters recently discussed in the meta thread. Thoughts?

I don’t know. I mean, this was a pretty huge spoiler:

I want to see Shallan burn. I’m sorry, but it’s true. In OB, I felt like her character arc was a big circle, and she just goes round and round, not making any progress. I didn’t feel like that in WoR. She had a decent amount of development considering her screen time and reached an important milestone by the end. But as everyone else on the forum has been pointing out, Shallan doesn’t go much of anywhere in OB. We get all these developments like Wits advice and her growing instability, but at the end she decides to play it safe. Sure, she decides to stop forming new personas, but that’s like a baby step. Sanderson made it seem like some huge accomplishment, but i feel like it’s not huge enough to justify all the tension in Shallans POVs, which just happen to dissipate magically at the end. Shallan gets a happy ending without having earned it in my opinion. She’s still lying SOOO much though there are hints that she’ll work on her problems more with Adolin in the future. Honestly, I want Shallans world to fall around her. I want her lies to disintegrate in her hands around her and have her true self revealed to the world. I realize that she’s had a traumatic past, but in OB it feels like everything falls into place for Shallan and gets everything she wants. In order to redeem her character I just want her nice little world to explode around her. IMO, if Shallan is going to overcome her problems, she’ll first need to lose everything. Since she’s not going to confront her inner struggle, something drastic will have to force herself to. Well, I’m done rambling. Just to be clear, I don’t hate Shallan. I just feel like she’ll need to really suffer in order to get past her obstacles.

I like the fact that he killed off Eshonai. Everyone thought she would be alive, and as such the twist was great. And people did need to die. WoK and WoR doesn't feature any main character death, except for Sadeas, who is a villain (Jasnah and Szeth doesn't count). Killing Eshonai was a good way to get the "no one is safe" thing going. In addition, Eshonai wasn't very interesting. She was a good person at the start of WoR, and she stayed a good person. She just wants to explore and discover, but has to be a general instead. That was basically her character. Her decision to take up Stormform was a huge mistake on her part, and her good intentions basically wound up enslaving her people. The fact that she is so innocent, and is in a position of huge responsibility, which she didn't really want, makes her failure and death very tragic. Surviving and saving her people would have made her a pretty predictable hero, with a predictable redemption arc, and it would also remove the sense of tragedy. Killing her off makes her a deeply tragic character instead, which is much more interesting, and, for me, much more fulfilling. This also allows Brandon to build up Venli and make her a better character. Short answer: killing Eshonai was totally the right move.

So we got confirmation that humans came to Roshar because of a major disaster on their "original" world and that the big secret was that they had destroyed their own planet with surgebinding. This is interesting and has many implications, it will probably take a while to shift through all of them (the book has been out for like 2 days at the time of writing this post haha) but I would like to discuss two theories I had just considering the basics within the context of the Cosmere as we know it. 1. The "Tranquiline Halls" is Ashyn So with the confirmation in text that humans are not native to Roshar, something that has been more or less confirmed through various WoBs over the years so isn't groundbreaking news, we start to wonder where they came from. We know that they arrived as refugees fleeing the devastation of their original home, so the initial group must have come from the same world. I posit that that world is Ashyn, the planet right next to Roshar that we know is a blasted wasteland save a few pockets where humans survive. And that it got that way because as Khriss mentions in her essay on Greater Roshar in AU: it "suffered a cataclysm long ago". It makes logistical sense, a massive number of refuges that would be produced by a global disaster would most likely want to settle in the place that was both safe and as close as possible to limit how long they were displaced. Even with the distance warping of the Cognitive why trek halfway across the galaxy with probably nothing but the clothes on your back when you can find shelter the next planet over? Then there is this Death Rattle from WoK that most people have, again, guessed for years refers in someway to the humans initially displacing the native Parsh: The last sentence is of specific import in this case. The place that is "hollow and forlorn" might refer the Braize, where the cognitive shadows of the genocided Dawnsingers that would later become the Fused were locked up. But the part where the speaker (presumably a human "Voidbringer") claiming that they themselves once burned is probably a reference to the disaster that destroyed their homeworld. And guess what? Back in that essay in Arcanum Unbound Khriss names Ashlyn "the burning planet". Other possibilities for the identity of the Tranquiline Halls would be either 1) Yolen or 2) a yet unnamed planet. I find Yolen unlikely because the chronology seems to indicate a big time lapse before whatever happened to Yolen (assuming it happened in close proximity to the Shattering and the Birth of the 16) and the human refugees showing up with Odium as their god. For one we know he was off chasing Ambition in the space around Therody, and also took time to go murder the Selish shards. Assuming the conflict between Odium and Honor started soon after his arrival in Roshar and hasn't abated since he would have taken an unbelievably short time to accomplish his prior goals. Not to mention that whatever happened to Yolen had nothing to do with surgebinding, but that is not that big of a deal breaker as I will explain shortly. As for a yet unknown world? Well I can't find evidence for or against something we don't know exists now can I? So we should really have someone ask Brandon if the Tranquiline Halls are a world we already know about during the OB tour. 2. The Tranquilline Halls were destroyed, but probably not by surgebinding as we know it So this being the big secret behind the Recreance confused me. I understand how the characters in universe might come to this conclusion but it makes little sense for the Cosmerically aware. Obviously something big *did* happen to the homeland of the humans to make them refugees and this being the Cosmere that thing most likely related to usage of Investiture. But we know that, while a magic user can use their magic anywhere given the right resources, initiation into a magic system requires Connection to a certain Shard and/or a certain planet. As surgebinding as we understand it is a system created by bonding a spren of Honor/Cultivation that has learned to mimic the blades Honor forged from his own soul to give the heralds. And he gave those blades to the heralds to enforce the oathpact. So as we know that H+C came to Roshar before Odium and now know that Odium came with the human refugees. It seems incongruous to believe that surgebinders in the mold of the KR existed and destroyed the Tranquiline Halls BEFORE the humans came to Roshar with Odium, who started a fight with Honor, who then forged an Oathpact with 10 humans, which splinters of H+C's power then copied to create surgebinders. Furthermore in WoR Honor in the visions tells Dalinar he "didn't foresee the coming of the Knights" and confirms Syl's comments about the spren mimicking the Honorblades to produce the surges. But if surgebinders already existed and were the reason the Tranquiline Halls were destroyed, why would the coming of surgbinders surprise Honor? But what if surgebinding existed in a different form and Honor was just surprised to see the spren recreate it? Well then I maintain that you can't assume spren-based surgbinding will have the same result (planetary devastation) as whatever was used back home. Its like Hoid's Lightweaving vrs. Shallan's. Even if the effects are similar or even identical, the mechanics are markedly different. And we haven't considered the Dawnshards which in OB Honor claimed destroyed the Tranquilline Halls as he was in his death throes. So whatever wrecked the homeland of Roshar's humans was not surgbinding (again at least not as we know it) and so the truth behind the Recrence seems to be a tragic misunderstanding by the people involved possibly conflating two different magic systems from two different planets, probably.

So, as I read Chapter 31 and met the "Flying Fused" (trademark pending) - the voidbringers who chased Kaladin into the air - I had to remind myself which two surges Windrunners had again. Well I keep a folder on my PC with all kinds of pics, charts, and the like related to Cosmere novels. When I went digging for a surgebinding chart, I also came across something I downloaded in 2014 named "Voidbinder Chart." Then I realized that the symbols on that chart matched one that I had misnamed as "Surgebinding Chart." So I realized that it was actually a VOIDBINDING CHART! I have attached both files for your viewing pleasure. ← Voidbinder Forms ← Surgebinder Types / KR Orders Kaladin's exploits in Chapter 31 show us that there is a voidbinder analog to windrunners (or Skybreakers). You'll notice that the surge glyphs on the voidbinding chart corrupt the symmetry of the surge glyphs on the surgebinding chart by bisecting them along the vertical axis, rotating the left side along the horizontal axis, and putting them back together. For example... The idea being that there is a relationship between voidbinding and surgebinding. I'm suggesting that the relationship is that each of the magic systems operate along similar pathways resulting in a similar expression of the magic. The difference is what is powering the magic, or in more precise terms, whose investiture is powering the magic. However, no matter where it comes from something about Roshar is going to force the investiture to follow along a predetermined pathway. I imagine this is similar to how some appliances can accept batteries or power via an AD/DC adapter, no matter how the electrons are supplied, they will be sent through the circuitry to achieve the same result (of course there's no alternative to electrons when powering electrical appliances, whereas there are 16 different sources of investiture in the Cosmere). So, maybe a Mistborn example would be better... Highlight for Mistborn spoiler: Ruin's investiture (via hemalurgy) affected metal in ways that were in line with the powers granted by Preservation's investiture (via allomancy) on Scadrial; that is, you have to use a steel spike to steal a coinshot's abilities and you have to use a copper spike to steal memories. There are some oddities, but you get my point. There's also a blending of the two shards' investiture that resulted in a balanced blend of both powers (i.e. Feruchemy). So, similar to the Mistborn magics, the Rosharan magics operate along similar lines no matter which Shard's investiture is powering the magic. Obviously there will be important differences between the magic powered by the blended investiture of Honor & Cultivation (i.e. surgebinding) and that powered by Odium's investiture (voidbinding). I suspect that voidbinding is the literal opposite of surgbinding (it accomplishes the same effect in a opposite manner - if surgebinding pushes, then voidbinding pulls and vice versa - but that's a different post. The question is whether voidbinding is the analog of Feruchemy (a mix of all three shards' investiture) - a result that works well assuming that the voidspren are corrupted or fallen radiant spren - or whether voidbinding is the analog of Hemalurgy (the magic that comes from only/mostly Odium's investiture). Regardless, I think I've proved a solid connection between voidbinding and surgebinding and that it should result in voidbinders resembling surgebinders. Again, the flying voidbringers in chapter 31 strongly support that conclusion. However, that leaves two "problems"... One is the yellow spren and the other is which surgebinders resemble StormForm. I don't think the yellow spren is a problem so much as it supports my theory. Let's put the questions about her to bed... That leaves the question of which order of the KR is analogous to StormForm. Well, my best guess is that StormForm is likely to match the powers of the Dustbringers/Releasers. StormForm released the Everstorm. Lightning isn't that different from fire and the essence associated with Chach is spark. However, I'm not completely sure that I'm right because we haven't seen much from Malata yet. Here are my best guesses: 1. Windrunners → ??? 2. Skybreakers → Smokeform - Kaladin's pursuers in Ch. 31 3. Dustbringers → Stormform * 4. Edgedancers → ??? 5. Truthwatchers → Nightform 6. Lightweavers → Mediationform 7. Elsecallers → Scholarform (?) This may or may not be a form of power. 8. Willshapers → ??? 9. Stonewards → Decayform * 10. Bondsmiths → ??? * Stormform could very easily be the Bondsmith analog with the storms and stuff; they also seem to be guiding/leading the non-Fused parshmen in Ch. 31 * I'm really not sure who matches up with Decayform since the details about them are so vague in the song about them from WoR. I based by guess on this line: "Watch where you walk, your toes to tread. O'er hill or rocky riverbed" It just sounds like stone/walking on stone is involved here. That's it. Let me know what you think!

Hi there, I stumbled across this forum while nerding out on the stormlight archive. I have always loved reading, but I haven’t really sat down and read a novel in probably 8 or 9 years. And then one day I decided I’d pick up a book and Fantasy has always been my favorite genre. I consulted a buzzfeed list of their top 51 fantasy series of all time, and decided to jump back into reading with their number 2 selection on their list: Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive. (#1 is Patrick Rothfuss’ Kingkiller Chronicles) I was immediately enamoured with Sanderson world and characters. I finished Words of Radiance about a week before Oathbringer released, finished Oathbringer as quickly as possible and I just CAN’T GET ENOUGH! I look forward to geeking out with the folks of this community. Cheers!

I’m an Italian fan of Sanderson, and I’ve decided not only to read about the fandom, but also to do my part of theory crafting :-)

Sorry this took twice as long as it was supposed to. My computer decided it would be a good idea to crash when I was halfway finished. It was really fun to draw someone older for once. Especially since you don't have to worry about making them attractive,

Uh sorry no. We see her as a little girl. She has brothers who saw her being born. We see her POV all the time. She’s not a herald

About the factors compounding to the Recreance I can only recommend the recent Shardcast, they cover those very well. About Surgebinding on Ashyn: We have to remember that Ashyn is in the Rosharan system, so a similar magic system as on Roshar is to be expected, especially since the system has existed pre-Shattering. The only localized magic we know is on Sel, this basically coming from the Investiture of D&D being stuffed into the Cognitive Realm instead of the Spiritual Realm. This is not the case in the Rosharan system, so Surgebinding should not be limited to the planet of Roshar. If you also take into account the fact that Rosharan nomenclature is not very differentiating (e.g most birds are called "chicken"), it would be not surprising that any non-fabrial magic in the system is called "Surgebinding", even if it was slightly different. A possibility is that humans accidentally "destroyed" Ashyn with Voidbinding - they were the first Voidbringers, after all. What irks me is that Honor and Cultivation told the Singers to take in the refugees from Ashyn. They probably would not have done that if Odium came immediately with them. There are great uncertainties concerning the first advent of humans on Roshar, since we've got only bits here an there hidden in Death Rattles, The Songs of Listeners and the translation of the Eila Stele. The fear of destroying the planet with Surgebinding again must have been an issue for the KR before the Recreance, since Honor started raving about it before he died. When Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured and all Singers connected to her lobotomized in the process, the unforeseen consequences must have been a shock for the Knights Radiant and an example of what the surges could do to the planet. Additionally, we still don't know what shattered the Shattered Plains. This could also have been another "accident" with greater effects than intended. The revelation that humans were not native to Roshar, I also found underwhelming as the Secret that destroyed the KR. Combined with the danger of destroying a planet again with examples of unexpected effects of Surgebinding, the scenario leading to the Recreance is quite convincing for me. The fact that humans on Ashyn might have had a different form of Surgebinding is secondary, because the lobotomizing and the shattering of the Shattered Plains have been done by the Surgebinding the KR on Roshar currently use.

First post, yay. I first heard about Sanderson when he got to finish Wheel of Time, which he did so well. The gathering storm is one of my favorite books! After reading that I devoured every book he had published. Definitely one of the best writers in a long time

Spoilers for The Way of Kings ahead. Half serious thread. Stone beasts (thunderclasts) check Indestructible armor (shardplate) check True vs fake armor (shardplate / "sprenplate") check Slate grey armor (shardplates when not painted over) check Lighteyed nobles check Shinning eyes check Ondulating blades (shardblades) check Weapons that change form ("sprenweapons") check Gems as source of magic check Magic check Some can fly, those who don't are carried check Shardbearer lashing enemies into the air check Helpful smal humanoid creatures (spren) check Armor and weapons that appear out of nothing check Dark clouds check Lack of grass/green check World-wide expanding wave starting at an origin check Power squad (Bridge 4, the Orders) check Other dimensions with shifted colors check Disclaimer: not implying anything, I just thought about how his blade looked like a shardblade and then forced some comparisons for my own amusement.

I believe these three are linked and refer directly to a pivotal event in Taravangian's future. I present them here not in the order in which they were recorded, but in the ordrr in which I think the future events will play out. Note that the last one recorded was said directly to Taravangian. — Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24] — Observed circa Ishi 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[4] — Collected on Tanatesev 1171, 30 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cobbler of some renown I think these show three critical, and sequential moments in Taravangian's future. It appears to predict that Taravangian's bargain with Odium to save his city and its people will hinge on killing a baby, or not. The first rattle lays out the choice: kill this baby and give his people "further breath to draw." I think it particularly noteworthy that this rattle is considered "of particular note" by the Silent Gatherers. It's possible that the Diagram helped them recognise this as referring to Taravangian. The second rattle predicts the moment if choice for Taravangian. And it seems that his compassion will win out. A big boost to all those theorists who think the most important part of Taravangian's boon from Cultivation was his compassion, not his intelligence. It's interesting that this rattle was spoken directly to Taravangian. Did he recognise it for what it was? Is it to be trusted? Is it some sort of psych out by Moeloch? And the third one shows the result of the choice. The fall of Kharbranth. The child crying in the background confirms that he spared its life, while Taravangian's tears tell us that this all happened on a compassionate day. Clearly, if my theory here is accurate, then most of the details are unknown to us yet. We don't know who the child is yet. We don't know why Taravangian has been asked to kill it, although it seems safe to assume that it was Odium making the demand. We don't even know if the child is important in their own right, or whether it's more of a symbolic sacrifice. I'll be paying close attention to any new born children in the next book though ...

I agree this sounds like it's from the perspective of the KR, but I've wondered if it might refer to Ash's response to the death of Jezrien: The "shard of my soul" would then be talking about the connection between the souls of the heralds being severed. This might also hold as I'm guessing more heralds will be killed off in future books, so it might be a response to the death of a herald that we haven't seen yet.

The Witch-King: No living man may hinder me! Bo-Ado-Mishram: unintelligible voidish gibbering The Witch-King: Nope! I'm out!

I wrote a few keteks after seeing this thread, but here are the best: This one I made up myself: And these are based on death rattles from the series (the second one is very sad...):

INTRODUCTION So, there’re basically thirteen races (or at least thirteen races so far, if you divide those cultures into more parts) on Roshar: the Alethi, the Vedens, the Unkalaki (aka the Horneaters), the Herdazians, the Thaylens, the Natan, the Makabaki, the Selay, the Iriali, the Shin, the Reshi, the Listeners and the Aimians. Note: Here I used one of my old art created by the Chibi Maker to visualize the descriptions, though there’re still some minor inaccuracies. I really wanted to do a complete graphic chart, but it is still far off. Brandon's comment on this: A LIST OF HUMAN RACES 1. The Alethi (People of Alethkar) 1) Common features: tall stature, tan skin, black hair, lighteyes and darkeyes 2) Inspiration from Earth: Asian-Hawaiian people (You can imagine them as east-Indian people.) [source], Asian-Arab people [source] Kaladin is an Asian-Middle Eastern mix. [source] 3) Brandon's choice: Dave Bautista for Dalinar [source], Alex Landi for Adolin [source] How about the Iriali and Alethi mix we have going on with Adolin and Renarin: 2. The Vedens (People of Jah Keved) 1) Common features: fair skin, red hair, lighteyes and darkeyes 2) Inspiration from Earth: Asian-Caucasian people (supposedly more Asian-like) [source], red-haired Uyghur people [source], Shallan is a half-Irish, half-Japanese mix [source] 3. The Unkalaki (People of the Horneater Peaks) 1) Common features: light tan skin (or just fair skin like the Vedens) (supposedly lighter than the Alethi), red hair, strong back molars to break shells and claws (result of Parshendi hybrids) [source] 2) Inspiration from Earth: Asian-Caucasian people, [source] Mongolian people, Polynesian people, Russian people [source] 4. The Herdazians (People of Herdaz) 1) Common features: deep tan skin (supposedly darker than the Alethi), dark crystalline fingernails (result of Parshendi hybrids) 2) Inspiration from Earth: Hispanic people [source], indigenous Bolivian [source] 5. The Thaylens (People of Thaylenah) 1) Common features: long white eyebrows 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown 6. The Natan (People of the former Natanatan) 1) Common features: pale bluish skin, wide nose, wool-like white hair [WoK Ch.36] (result of Aimian hybrids) [source] 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown 7. The Makabaki (People of all the Makabak) 1) Common features: dark brown skin (or just dark skin), black hair [WoK Ch.14] 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown Notable races: the Azish, the Tashikki, the Emuli and the Tukari (People of Azir, Tashikk, Emul and Tukar) 8. The Selay (People of the former Sela Tales) 1) Common features: skin ripples [WoK Ch.52] 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown Notable race: the Purelaker (People of the Purelake) 1) Common features: leathery skin, dark hair, long limbs [WoR I-3] 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown Notable race: the Babath (People of Babatharnam) 1) Common features: [women] patterns of veins beneath the skin [WoK Ch. 46] (result of Aimian hybrids) [source] 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown 9. The Iriali (People of Iri and perhaps Rira) 1) Common features: yellow eyes, golden skin often painted various colors and patterns, golden hair with metallic sheen [WoK Ch.18, WoR I-2] 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown Note: There are small differences between the Iriali and the Riran. [source] 10. The Shin (People of Shinovar) - The only race without epicanthic folds 1) Common features: short stature, pale skin, large round eyes, men tending to be bald, no epicanthic folds (but still hardly resemble the Caucasians on Earth) 2) Inspiration from Earth: unknown 11. The Reshi (People of the Reshi Isles) 1) Common features: tan skin, straight black hair, rounded features [WoR I-9] 2) Inspiration from Earth: Hispanic people (or at least for Lift) [source], indigenous Bolivian [source] About the Kharbranthians: The city-state is culturally diverse, so you can find different races there. Last update: Jun 3rd, 2019 (by Botanica) Original post: [x]

Hello friends. I've been thinking a lot about Shards over the last month or so, especially in advent of the upcoming Q&A on Reddit. It's been a while since I've seen one of these, so I figure there's no harm in putting this out there again (especially in light of new reveals in AU). I want to think about Shards, and possibly narrow down the six remaining Shards, and I would love some input from you guys (I've been driving my family crazy with questions on their thoughts in the last couple days). Firstly, here's what we know. We know ten of the sixteen Shards of Adonalsuim. Listed in order of reveal/publicity, they are Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Endowment, Honor, Cultivation, Odium, Autonomy, and Ambition. We know that Odium Splintered at least four Shards. We now know all four: Ambition, Devotion, Dominion, and Honor. Odium had a 'hit-list', and Ambition was #1. There is a Shard that just wants to hide and survive, but that Shard's intent is not 'Survival'. There is a Shard that is not on a planet. (This could refer to Ambition, depending on where it was finished off.) There are two Shards that aren't on a planet, Ambition, and one other. Here's some stuff we're I'm pretty sure about/think we know. (Please let me know if any of these suppositions were confirmed) Shards are based somewhat on "divine attributes" of a god figure. Shards have an opposite pairing, but most are not clear opposites.* * There's been a lot of discussion involving this, and it's looking more and more unlikely that there are pairings of Shards. However, since it's somewhat simple to use that supposition as a format for now, if nothing else. Here's some supposition/speculation I make on the information above. If the sixteen Shards of Adonalsium were all combined, the result would be a god figure. Because of this, we can assume that there are likely no duplicates (for example, there wouldn't be a Shard of Immutability, as Preservation already fills that role). Now onto the Big List. I'm going to attempt to fill in this list of Shards and their pairings, and I will update this list with our guesses. Confirmed Shards will be in Red, guesses will be green. Confirmed pairing will be bold, highly likely will be italicized, and unsure I will leave plain. Here goes. Preservation Ruin Dominion Autonomy Odium Devotion* Endowment Ambition** Honor Absolution?*** Cultivation Tribulation Enlightenment Enigma Purity**** Synthesis? * On the Odium/Devotion pairing. I put this one up because Odium is defined by hatred and jealousy, whereas Devotion is stuff like love and service. I find it to be a likely pair, but a good argument can be made for and Honor/Odium mashup as well. ** On the Endowment/Ambition pair, I find this one a bit of a stretch, I'll admit. It comes from the thought process of Endowment being giving to others, and Ambition looking to receive. It's a tenuous connection, but I'll leave it here for the time being until we find a better candidate. *** One of the possible Shards my family came up with is Mercy (or forgiveness) EDIT: Absolution involves both of these, also, you can be absolved of burdens and Oaths. It's also a God attribute so I like it better. I'm still not too sure I like it as a whole. I like the idea that it's a possible opposite to Honor, because the way we've seen Honor act sounds like a Judgement type, dealing heavily with Oaths. Forgiveness and Mercy sometimes happens in Honorable people in SA, but I haven't seen it represented in a Shard (though there is a case to be made that Endowment or Cultivation could involve it). **** Purity seems like a likely Shard to me. We haven't seen a Shard that represents the righteousness or holiness of god, and I think there's an argument to be made that Purity could fill those shoes. There is also a planet named Purity in the Threnodite System that breaks the pattern of funeral songs like the other planets. Now, let's discuss. Please bring forward an idea of the remaining six shards. Even feel free to argue my pairings if you like. Please keep in mind these things on looking for Shard possibilities. Divine attributes separated from the virtues that give them context (as Hoid would say). Attributes that aren't shared in another Shard. Shards that wouldn't logically be higher on Odium's hit-list that Ambition. Otherwise he would have targeted them first. Edit 1: Added Tribulation, added confirmed information about Ambition and the other Shard without a home. Edit 2: Absolution instead of Mercy, added Synthesis as an opposite of Purity.

You are given the voice of Ray Orbison, the guitar prowess of Jimi Hendrix and then transported instantaneously 60 miles above the surface of the earth. In the Mesosphere, where the air is decidedly "thin", you can summon your electric guitar. At a temperature of -100 degrees Centrigrade, you better start playing some hot licks. Assuming you don't freeze to death, you only have a little over 27 minutes to enjoy your golden voice and godlike guitar ability before you're turned into a grisly splat in some poor Iowan's cornfield. I wish that store bought donuts were as good as donuts from donut shops.

I didn't realize you could change up verb forms, so it took me a while to write this: Mountains rise, cities fall, beneath stars, humans crawl. Crawl humans, stars beneath, fall cities, rise mountains

Hi I've been lurking for a long time. Here is how I see it. In WOR I thought Shal Ado was cute but I preferred Shal Kal. My big problem with Shal Ado was that Shallan was not honest with Adolin. In the beginning of OB when Shal thinks "maybe I can explain" I thought oh man Shal Kal is over it's going to be Shal Ado. But Adolin cuts her off and she doesn't explain anything she makes Radiant instead. There were two things that Shal could have said 1. Vague: I have killed before and holding the shardblade causes me pain I just can't practice right now 2. Specific: I killed my mother. I hate my shardblade and want nothing to do with it. It hurts. So with the vague option I would have been meh. With the specific option I would have thought that Shal Ado was it and Shal Kal was wishful thinking. By the end of OB Shallan is still not honest with Adolin and I don't think she has any plans to be. She's a liar that's what she does best that's what she is comfortable with. She plans to tell Adolin about the Ghostbloods but not until after they are married. This to me is manipulative. She is maneuvering Adolin to marry her she is using him. I really dislike this. She seems to think Adolin will not care about her connection with the Ghostbloods (I think she's probably right) but if so why didn't she tell him before marrying him. Maybe because he would object to her close connection with a group that has tried repeatedly to assassinate his cousin Jasnah and Shallan herself and overall kills innocent bystanders. I got the impression Shal Ado were spending every moment together leading up to the wedding. There was time and privacy for Shallan to be honest with Adolin. She's not. More important than the Ghostbloods is the fact that Shallan has killed both her parents and she had a horrible childhood. (Adolin also had a horrible childhood though he may not see it that way and I don't think Shallan knows this and I don't think she is curious. What do they even talk about???) She has no intention to tell Adolin this. This is again manipulative. Even if Adolin's opinion of Shallan does not change because she's connected to the Ghostbloods his opinion of her would have to change after learning she killed both her parents and the circumstances around that (unless he is brain dead). We know Shallan hates herself. She calls herself a monster and worthless. She says she doesn't matter. With all that she probably thinks Adolin would think less of her if he knew her history. So she doesn't tell him or plan to tell him, but she does manipulate him into marrying her. She is using him. My one big objection to Shal Ado was that Shal is not honest with Ado. This is not resolved and yet they are married and apparently most readers are happy with the two of them together and believe they will solve any problems that they have in the future. *I am now banging my head against the wall* On top of all this I think Shallan is insane. I thought she was sane in WOK and WOR but OB convinced me she is insane. I do not believe she is mentally competent to agree to marriage. Short answer I was really disgusted with the rushed ending of OB.

I have a hard time seeing Nale be turned into a puppet of Odium even if he is siding with the Singers. I think there may be a legal distinction there in his mind too that he may agree that Roshar belongs to the Singers but not necessarily be on Odium's side. In fact he may be directly against Odium as he is using the Singers as his Pawns. He didn't join either side in the battle of Thaylen.

Haven’t read all the comments which I will because I’d like to see others thoughts. Ok let me start off by saying I’ve read one stinking Star Wars book so I’m pretty oblivious to the expanded universe. For those that have I have to ask are some of these Jedi powers from those books? I thought it was weird in The Force Awakins that Rey all of the sudden had Jedi powers with no apparent training and could fight with a light saber without training but my thoughts were she was one of Lukes students and that explained her knowledge. Well apparently that was completely wrong. Then in this movie we have brand new physical telepathy and hologram powers.. What have I missed??? Other than that it was an ok movie. I was thinking we’d see some training between Luke and Rey which we kinda did I guess but most of it was just weird like the cave/mirror scene. The endless chase of a cruiser was pretty lame too. We’ve seen small fighters take out the Death Star but apparently tie fighter can’t take out a resistance cruiser so they just chase them until they run out of gas.. The Casio city run by Finn and Rose was just boring and weird. I did like the some of the characters though. I dunno I’d rank it a 5/10. Edit: Dang I forgot the wackiest part! Leia surviving the vacuum of space and floating back to the ship..

We know a lot of things about it. Per Sazed: Per Brandon:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/63776-ob-dalinar-should-wield-nightblood/ So yeah, Szeth should do exactly as you say and use his own spren. ...And pass Nightblood on to the guy who's spren refuses to act as a shardblade: Dalinar. Whom Szeth has already sworn to follow anyway. And who (as the original poster in that thread pointed out) is able to summon functionally infinite stormlight to power Nightblood any time he wants.

There's a new Rosharan expletive (spoilered for those of you who don't like that sort of thing):

It is rare when the processing tech hasn't developed yet.

I always felt that the strongest evidence for Tien possibly being a proto-Lightweaver was the chasm scene, where Kaladin directly compares the effects Shallan and Tien both have/had on him: (em mine) And note that Tien was a fantastic artist (also, see the similarities of Tien's effect on Kaladin near the end of the quote): There's very few people who affect Kaladin in this fashion; in particular, Syl has a lot of trouble trying to cheer Kaladin up. Shallan's tendency to make people think better about themselves is put in terms of soulcasting: Contrast with: The way Pattern describes it makes me think the 'cheerleading' part really is related to the combination of the Lightweaver surges (Transformation and Illumination). All in all, I think there's a lot of evidence for Tien being a Lightweaver or at least a Lightweaver candidate.

Maybe not a slogan, but still very 17th shard.

Aaaand I'm back. There's been quite a bit of discussion while I was gone, so attempting to respond to every point seems futile. I'll just try to pick it up from here. Incoming wall of text. I think you're reading into this line a bit too much. We know that simply being of Terris blood does not grant you feruchemical abilities by itself because Wax could not tap the unkeyed goldmind in BoM. From the WoB that The One Who Connects provided, we also know that it won't even help you tap your own metalminds if you lose your feruchemy. Keep in mind, Brandon never says that Miles' Identity is changing when he gets spiked, just that the recipient may be keyed enough to access his minds. A perfectly valid interpretation of this is that while Miles' is lessened by the experience, he's not "less Miles'" so to speak. I agree with Spoolofwhool's interpretation of Identity in relation to getting spiked. They use the analogy of a barcode, but I believe there's an even more compelling example: DNA. Every part of your DNA contains your genetic blueprint. I don't think it's a coincidence that Brandon uses the term Spiritual DNA interchangeably with Spirit Web and Soul. This would jive with what we understand about healing. Lopen can heal his arm back because he never accepted the fact that he was disabled, whereas Kaladin and Kelsier think of their scars as part of who they are. Or, to use a more compelling example, if Kaladin immediately had his Identity (and thus self image, or Soul Ideal) changed when he was cut by the Shardblade, how could he heal himself? Honestly, I think Connection's WoB supports my case fairly well and fits exactly within the theorized mechanics compounding. This makes it clear that you cannot tap your metalminds if your feruchemy is spiked away. No theoretical Identity connection will help you here. Okay, maybe getting spiked changes your Identity and that's why you can't. I disagree with this entirely, seeing as Lopen went years without an arm and it didn't change how he saw himself, but I'll play along for my next point. If getting spiked changes your Identity, why can Miles burn his metalminds after getting spiked? Even more compelling, why can the Coinshot still burn his metalmind after losing a spike? He is completely losing the portion of his sDNA (and thus associated Identity) related to being a ferring, yet we have confirmation that this does not change his Identity enough to prevent him from burning his steelmind. I feel completely confident in assuming that spiking does not automatically change your Identity enough to prevent access to your own metalminds. All this talk of Identity connections, spiking changing Identity and allomancy using Identity to "remember" feruchemy to compound is very theoretical, meaning there's nothing directly supporting it's existence, but rather a potential explanation for information we're lacking. While this is possible, I think the more reasonable answer is the one we understand based on the mechanics we have been told, and the situations which have been confirmed to work. For this reason, I am going to exhaustively explain my theory on the mechanics of compounding in an effort to show how well these disparate pieces fit together to explain it. To start off, rather than speculate, what do we know? The mechanics of compounding as described by Brandon is a function of the mechanics of allomancy. As the allomancer burns the metal, Investiture is pulled from Preservation and filtered through the metal. Feruchemical Investiture present in the metal alters the shape that additional Investiture takes. Relevant WoB: Ferrings who have their feruchemy spiked away cannot access their metalminds. Relevant WoB You can burn a metalmind with allomancy for feruchemical powers even if you are not currently a feruchemist. Relevant WoB: Distinct Identities interfere with metalmind access, whether through compounding or tapping. This is shown through the scene with Vin attempting to burn Sazed's metalminds, and basically everything we know about feruchemy. Two feruchemists can both store attributes in the same metalmind, but they do not interact. Relevant WoB: Unkeyed metalminds can be tapped by anyone with the the power to do so. Spiking someone's feruchemy away, or removing a spike granting feruchemy and Identity, does not change someone's Identity enough to prevent them from compounding their metalminds. Relevant WoB: These are the facts as we understand them. Each of these statements is either confirmed in books or in WoB, and I have yet to see anyone refute them. The reason I feel my theory is so compelling is because it requires nothing outside the scope of these facts to work. Let's quickly run through the steps of performing allomancy according to Brandon: Allomancer ingests steel Allomancer draws Investiture from Preservation Allomancer Investiture is filtered through the metal, which shapes the effect of the magic. Allomancer steelpushes. Everyone else gets jealous. Now let's look at compounding according to WoB: Twinborn ingests their own steelmind Twinborn draws Investiture from Preservation Twinborn Investiture is filtered through the metamind, which is also shaped by the feruchemical Investiture when shaping the magic. Twinborn gets super speed. Everyone else gets even more jealous. Note, this is exactly the same steps as allomancy. At no point is it stated that the twinborn taps the metalmind during this process. Rather, the Investiture just needs to interact with each other to alter how the magic is shaped. I'm not theorizing here, simply stating the facts as we understand them. So let's look at compounding unkeyed metalminds according to my theory: Allomancer ingests an unkeyed steelmind Allomancer draws Investiture from Preservation Allomancer Investiture is filtered through the metamind. Because there is no Identity interference preventing them from mixing, the feruchemical Investiture present in the metalmind also shapes the effect of the magic. Allomancer gets super speed. Everyone goes out to buy medallions because they can't take the jealousy anymore. It's exactly the same. I use the term Identity interference to describe the phenomenon present throughout feruchemy because it seems applicable. We think of metalminds as something belonging to the feruchemist, but we know from statement 5 that multiple feruchemists can store into the same metal without issue because the Investiture just doesn't mix. Metalminds only "belong" to a feruchemist in as much as their unique Identity prevents their Investiture from interacting with other unique Identities, and it's clear that this concept is not unique to compounding. At this point, the theory should be obvious and simple based on what we know: mistings can burn unkeyed metalminds because there is no interference between unique Identities preventing the Investitures from interacting and shaping the magic. Really, it's not that mind blowing or out there when you get right down to it. It doesn't require anything theoretical or unknown to work, and it is not directly contradicted by anything we know. Rather, it is simply a logical extension of the mechanics and rules as we understand them, backed up by confirmed evidence, and the underlying mechanics of it satisfies every case of compounding we have discussed so far. Contrast that with the theory that a connection to your metalminds via Identity is the reason former twinborn can compound, while also being the reason former ferrings can't access their metalminds because getting spiked changes their Identity. The second part contradicts the fact that Miles' can still burn his own goldmind and thus shares an Identity with it, and the first part is predicated on a new ability of Identity which we have no direct evidence of. It feels flimsy because it has potential holes and it is inventing solutions to the problem, rather than applying the mechanics on hand. Without a completely unambiguous confirmation of either theory (or a completely new one) it is impossible to prove a theory correct, but that does not mean they're equally likely.

Hello, would you like to destroy some evil today?

Lets try one that's a little more... obscure. EDIT: bonus points to everyone who gets it.

Go to a book signing and ask Brandon a cosmere question you know he would ordinarily RAFO... Enter competitions for things you have never practiced doing and compete blindfolded... Have as much unprotected sex as you want without ever worrying about the consequences...