Chapters 31 and 32

[Little_Dagger she/her]

I loved the casual lore drop on Shinovar! Also, Navani's reaction was golden!

"Have you told them?" Haha

[Ashbringer he/him]

I think the Ghostbloods were the guards that Shallan and the Radiants brought to the Cognitive Realm, while there were other, more normal guards in the Physical. Which was a little hard to parse but made more sense.

I bet the Ghostbloods can make their own anti-Light now. Otherwise they wouldn't be so free with it.

[Kfish]

24 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

ALSO! My thoughts from the chapter headings: This HAS to be about Tanavast stepping down and abdicating from his role as Honor. It's just got to be alluding to that. I really think that Honor steps down, and that Nohadon is who he became as a mortal. I think he is truly dead now, but I suspect he may have constructed an axon-for-axon copy of himself out of Honor's investiture, using it to replace himself as the vessel. This would likely not change Honor's tone and still make it indistinguishable from himself... but then it would also explain why Honor became more and more obsessed with Oaths over time. I think the copy lost its structure over time and became something akin to what the Sibling warns about - a shard with no vessel that has it's own sentience/awareness. I think that's why Honor kind of fell apart down the road and was so easily defeated by Odium.

Agreed! She just pulled the classic "finding her destiny on the road to prevent it" move, and I'm frustrated that she was so dismissive of Renarin and Rlain's cautionary suggestions - she just brushed them off and said "no this is important and I'm going by instinct here, try to keep up"

Like god damn Shallan take a breath and go stop Dalinar! The fact was, she wanted the perpendicularity opened for two reasons: 

1. Bait for Mraize and Iyatil cause she is obsessed with 'besting' them and proving herself to them

2. She is so curious about why the GB's want to get BAM that she also now wants to go find BAM. She can't help it, and she was wanting to go along in there the whole time, just like Renarin called out.

How Shallan actually thinks: Wheeeee look at us go!

I like this. It connects the honor without a vessel idea with the nohadon stuff while avoiding a lot of timeline issues if he basically made a copy of himself in charge of it which just became more sprenlike over time.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I agree there is a good chance that Tanavast abdicated. Just doesn't mesh with the timeline when you put Nohadon in the mix.

Why then did hiscognitive shadow merge with the Stormfather?

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

7 minutes ago, Kfish said:

Its worth remembering that she wanted to free Ba-Ado-Misbram at the end of ROW. 

You'd think that from the glimpses/visions of BAM would kind of encourage her away from that intention

[Subvisual Haze]

I was very excited to almost see a flashback and perhaps a clarification of lore questions that have been teased for quite a while.  Maybe next time!

[Kfish]

Just now, CognitiveShadow said:

You'd think that from the glimpses/visions of BAM would kind of encourage her away from that intention

I mean, sure. They made me nervous about it but this is Shallan.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

So, do we assume that Cultivation foresaw this and it is part of her plan?

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

Just now, Oltux72 said:

Why then did hiscognitive shadow merge with the Stormfather?

All we've gotten from Brandon is that Honor's cognitive shadow is attached to the Stormfather. This gives plenty of leeway for it to be the copy of Tanavast (techinically a cognitive shadow anyway) that slowly developed and morphed into it's own entity while Tanavast was back on Roshar as a mortal playing king instead of god. It would still make total sense for this Tanavast 2.0 to attach part of their awareness to the Stormfather as they were being killed by Odium. In fact, I think that Honor did this specifically with the intent of helping select and guide an unchained bondsmith. I think they set the power in a semi safe place in the Spiritual Realm so that when they had an unchained bondsmith bonded to them, they could then get that bondsmith to force Honor's power to connect to and merge with Odium's power, hopefully neutralizing some of Odium's more destructive tendencies.

But I believe this plan backfires and Taravangian ends up holding at least two shards, but with more control over them than he would have had over just Odium alone.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

12 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Why then did hiscognitive shadow merge with the Stormfather?

Then it is more likely that no one abdicated. Tanavast maybe decided to off himself since it is stated to be almost impossible to let go of a shard.

Kaladin did try to jump into the "Honor chasm" after all. That name always struck me as wierd. Maybe it's foreshadowing.

I mainly take issue with Nohadon having anything to do with Tanavast, since nothing suggests anything changed in that time

[Kfish]

2 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Then it is more likely that no one abdicated. Tanavast maybe decided to off himself since it is stated to be almost impossible to let go of a shard.

Kaladin did try to jump into the "Honor chasm" after all. That name always struck me as wierd. Maybe it's foreshadowing.

I mainly take issue with Nohadon having anything to do with Tanavast, since nothing suggests anything changed in that time

I've struggled with this as well. Partially because of the timeline issue and also because...I don't think Nohadon needs this to be an effective element in the story. His connection to Dalinar and his status as a mortal while pursuing those higher ideals puts him in a very good spot in the series and having him actually having been Honor previously feels like it simultaneously elevates and lowers his status in the series. 

 

I do really like the idea of Honor rejecting Tanavast (maybe killing him in the process?) and becoming self-aware which is why they shoved this potentially very unstable and unconnected shard into the spiritual realm. The one thing that makes me think Nohadon may have been involved in some way is the "light" showing Dalinar a vision of Nohadon. Sure, maybe Honor itself reached out and managed to connect Dalinar to Nohadon in a way to help him but it still feels weird.

 

Also, I like that Honor's perpendicularity was unstable and unpredictable before and it was likely because he's in the Spiritual Realm where time and location mean nothing.

[Isilel]

 So, the long-standing theories about the roots of stone veneration by the Shin are wrong. It has nothing to do with the humans promising to stay in Shinovar. Too bad that we likely won't see the scene of their arrival on Roshar now.

Speaking of which - what in cosmere are Mraize and Iyatil thinking?! Will this explosion somehow transfer all those present on both sides into Spiritual Realm? Because otherwise they have just closed their only path in there, as well as doomed the Coalition.

Lift's presence must be important somehow  - either she'll be swept into Spiritual Realm too and do something  there, or she will be instrumental in dragging the others out of it. Who is the second soul with her? I'd have thought that Wyndle would look different from a human soul? Also, the ease of spying via air ducts is starting to annoy me. Shouldn't Jasnah, with her well-grounded paranoia have come up with something to limit it, or pushed Navani to do so?

And btw, how did the Ghostbloods manage to arrive at Urithiru _before_ Shallan and Co. ? Did they Transport across Shadesmar? How did their Radiant skills become so strong so quickly? And, of course, we still got no evidence of their other powers or gadgets. Lieke went down like a chump too... Or did he?

Anyway,  apparently the spren can hide inside their bonded partner even in Shadesmar, where they are otherwise solid, which is very weird. 

[Wanguu He/Him]

We're getting really close to Dec 6th (only three chapters left), which makes me wonder - Are we going to end off with the end of Day 2? It almost feels like that the next chapters will be the end of day 2 (if not this one) so we will get the rest of day 2 and then interludes, meaning when we get our mitts on the book, we would start with Day 3. Thoughts?

 

28 minutes ago, Little_Dagger said:

I loved the casual lore drop on Shinovar! Also, Navani's reaction was golden!

 

Lost in Roshar's going to lose their minds when they talk about that line haha.

 

  

2 minutes ago, Isilel said:

 So, the long-standing theories about the roots of stone veneration by the Shin are wrong. It has nothing to do with the humans promising to stay in Shinovar. Too bad that we likely won't see the scene of their arrival on Roshar now.

I think we're still going to see that. Dalinar and Navani still have the rock (probably) so I think they'll get pulled there. But Hoid might also be with them too. Strange...

Edited November 18, 2024 by Wanguu

[KaladinWorldsinger]

3 minutes ago, Kfish said:

The one thing that makes me think Nohadon may have been involved in some way is the "light" showing Dalinar a vision of Nohadon

Dalinar calls that something "beyond Honor" so that kinda distances Honor and Nohadon. Infact Stormfather references the name Unity, which definitely feels like it means something to those visions

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

3 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Speaking of which - what in cosmere are Mraize and Iyatil thinking?! Will this explosion somehow transfer all those present on both sides into Spiritual Realm? Because otherwise they have just closed their only path in there, as well as doomed the Coalition.

That's exactly what I think they did, and I think Mraize knew what he was doing. He clearly knew something about what happens when a perpendicularity collapses. I think he wanted to get into the SR by any means necessary, but this was their plan Z. It means getting back out will be really really tricky

[KaladinWorldsinger]

4 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Too bad that we likely won't see the scene of their arrival on Roshar

Dalinar still has the rock with him, he just lost the anchor to come back to Wit. It's very possible he will see that vison

[Ninth of the Night]

7 minutes ago, Isilel said:

And, of course, we still got no evidence of their other powers or gadgets.

Well it's possible that Iyatil was tapping speed.

Quote

While Iyatil quickly slipped out of Radiant’s grip again, Shallan was able to scoop up the dagger. She glanced up, met Iyatil’s furious gaze, then smiled in triumph.

A second later, Shallan took a blowgun dart to the eye. She stumbled back and barely managed to dodge—through the pain—as Iyatil sent more darts after her. When had the woman gotten out that blowgun?

That blowgun appeared out of nowhere in an instant. I don't think anyone could be that quick without some kind of Investiture aiding them.

[Groovydude2]

19 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Lift's presence must be important somehow  - either she'll be swept into Spiritual Realm too and do something  there, or she will be instrumental in dragging the others out of it. Who is the second soul with her? I'd have thought that Wyndle would look different from a human soul?

I figured it was the Mink based on earlier scenes of him hiding with Lift to eavesdrop on meetings

[Slayd_07]

16 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

That blowgun appeared out of nowhere in an instant. I don't think anyone could be that quick without some kind of Investiture aiding them.

Oh damn, that's a good catch! This TOTALLY sounds like Iyatil tapping a little bit of speed. 

[king of nowhere]

hoid has a special holy rock from ashyn because he was there when they crossed planets... wait, did he kept it for 7000 years in his pocket?

where has he kept it all this time? how could he fetch the rock within the short time frame? fortune, i guess.

 

i always assumed that the shin were forbidden from walking on rock because of the initial pact with the dawnsingers that only the soil was their land, and worship came after... didn't expect another reason.

i am now picturing people about to flee in front of impending destruction, tearing down the saint peter cathedral or the mashid al haram and carrying a stone each... very sad picture. gives an idea of the conditions of those people

[anna she/her]

Just now, king of nowhere said:

hoid has a special holy rock from ashyn because he was there when they crossed planets... wait, did he kept it for 7000 years in his pocket?

where has he kept it all this time? how could he fetch the rock within the short time frame? fortune, i guess.

Also, did Hoid plant the rock in Kaladin's pack and was it also an Ashynite rock?

[Diomedes]

Oh no, Veil thought. Remind me, what do you do when there’s a guard watching for you?

Storms. You became the guard.

I see this as evidence for Shallan having been trained by the Ghostbloods as "the little knife" in her childhood. But she has purposefully forgotten that. She aplied her Ghostblood handbook in the last chapters, which the GB themselves are also using now. That is why she was so good at conducting the raid, because she has remembered a lot of the training by the end of RoW, but she has not remembered where that training came from.

Somebody else wrote a theory on that one, but I d not know where I read it. 

As for the chapters: Awsome! I was so thrilled for seeing the migration, which unfortunatly did manifest. but maybe we will still see that some time else. 

[alder24]

Oh snap! Dalinar and Navani are now trapped in SR. I didn’t expect that at all.

We know what happens when a perpendicularity collapses, we saw it happening when Szeth thrusted Nightblood into Dalinar's perpendicularity in RoW ch 111. Nobody was sucked into it, nobody was pulled into SR. I don't think this situation is any different. And Shallan was not pulled into it because she saw the room being shattered by the blast. This makes me more worried about Dalinar and Navani's bodies on the other side. The blast could be transferred via perpendicularity to the PR before it collapsed and it might have killed their bodies.They were both standing right in the middle of the perpendicularity, just where the energy would be released. 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

9 minutes ago, alder24 said:

This makes me more worried about Dalinar and Navani's bodies on the other side. The blast could be transferred via perpendicularity to the PR before it collapsed and it might have killed their bodies.They were both standing right in the middle of the perpendicularity, just where the energy would be released. 

I was considering this possibility, and then I thought, wouldn't the excess of Towerlight and Stormlight heal them extremely quickly? 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Well it's possible that Iyatil was tapping speed.

That blowgun appeared out of nowhere in an instant. I don't think anyone could be that quick without some kind of Investiture aiding them.

Why then did she lose the fight in the first place?

28 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

hoid has a special holy rock from ashyn because he was there when they crossed planets... wait, did he kept it for 7000 years in his pocket?

where has he kept it all this time? how could he fetch the rock within the short time frame? fortune, i guess.

That raises a possibility. Does Hoid know a way to store physical stuff in a gem?