alder24

We don't know, but per this WoB they aren't part of the Oathpact, they just represent it in a philosophical way. Honorblades were a gift. Regular? They were kings, scholars, or generals - they were the most important among humanity. Only Taln wasn't. OB ch 38: And they were the ones responsible for breaking something - starting Desolations I guess. RoW ch 47: I suspect Honorblades were given to them before Oathpact was created - Ishar was the one who forged it, he had to have the power to do that, he needed an Honorblade for this. There was already a Desolation going on, maybe it was given to them in response to Singers switching sides? Maybe it was given to them earlier, when they arrived on Roshar as a gift to help humanity settle in their new homes? Or maybe it was given to them when the Oathpact was made, only because they had to fight with Fused for some time, to help humanity restore their strength, to kill as many Fused as possible before going to Braize. This is because once Heralds departure to Braize, humans had to kill all remaining Fused and Regals on Roshar to send them back to Braize - and for that humans have to be strong enough. Heralds with Honorblades take pressure off humanity. So it still makes sense to give them Honorblades, even if Honor wasn't expecting Heralds to break. We don't know and it's hard to speculate.

Wait, what? So did Shallan kill Chana with Testament, or did Testament run away before she did that? I'm assuming you meant Testament disappeared after Chana was killed, not before. And why would Chana's Honorblade be in Shinovar if she was bonded with it? In Shinovar Honorblades are held by guardians, bonded to them - there is no way for Chana's Honorblade to remain in Shinovar while she's bonded with it, she had to have it with her, dismissed if Shallan didn't use it to kill Chana. Otherwise Shins would have just reclaimed it using Ishar's Honorblade to break the bond. Shins not only protect their Honorblades, but use them and train with them. SA5 Szeth flashback 1: And while a Herald dies with their Honorblade, it doesn't appear near their corpse, it goes with them to Braize immediately. No, Honorblades aren't part of the Oathpact, they just represent it. They go back to Braize with Heralds because of their bond, but the bond with an Honorblade is separate from the Oathpact. That's not an argument, it's a fallacy. We don't know why the safe was built, you can't claim it was built to hide the Honorblade and use it as an argument for your theory. If your theory is right, then we know why the safe was made, but because we don't know why yet, you can't claim it's an argument. For all we know she could have built it to store her jewelry. It's not "she made it therefore this theory is true," it's "if the theory is true, then we know why she made it." Yes, Heralds can do more with their Honorblades, but only one person can be bonded with it anyway. No, it didn't happen because Jezrien wasn't bonded with his Honorblade anymore - he broke his bond at Aharietiam. Moash was bonded with his blade at that time. There was no bond between Jez and his Honorblade when he died. Only one person can be bonded with any Shardblade or Honorblade at the time. One blade, one bond.

I guess we know too little to dismiss that possibility. It might be possible. The important question is can a spren trapped in a gemstone establish new connections with something outside of that gemstone? We don't know it, for me it seems unlikely. However I wouldn't say that the Stormfather doesn't pay much attention to his visions, I disagree with it. He's responsible for sending and ending them, he knows what's happening in them, he knows their meaning to some degree. The moment Lift spoke in Dalinar's vision, the Stormfather became aware she's there somehow - the moment BAM (or anyone else) tries to speak to Gavilar, the Stormfather knows someone else is there. Moreover I highly doubt that the Stormfather would pass over the fact that Gavilar is having two conversations at once - it's really hard to miss. And Venli was brought in by the Stormfather during a Highstorm. Odium broke into Dalinar's vision - forcefully and very openly.

Yes, the safe blocking the blade is fine, it could have been made from aluminum, or like Soen boxes, no problems here. The big question is who was bonded with this Honorblade before Chana died? Was it Chana or Shallan? If Chana was bonded to it, then it should disappear the moment she died, if it was somehow trapped in a box, the bond would still remain, preventing Shallan from bonding it, no matter if the safe was opened or closed. Not to mention why would Shallan used Chana's blade to kill her mother if she wasn't bonded with it, because she had to used it, otherwise the blade would have been dismissed by Chana - when dismissed it would not appear next to her body when she died, it would go straight to Braize with her. If the blade was bonded with Shallan, there is nothing holding Chana to Roshar, no bond between her and the blade exists. That's why used the argument with Nale and his spren. If a deeper bond with a spren doesn't prevent Nale from returning to Braize when his spren is left on Roshar, a weaker bond with an Honorblade won't do this at all. Did he know it before Jez died? Or simply concluded what had happened based on what he felt when Jez died and his realmatic knowledge? The answer is in RoW epigraphs, ch 79: Agreed. Yes, but the problem here is that Chana had no powers before reclaiming her Honorblade, she was in hiding, she was busy having a family, quite a big one, on the opposite side of Roshar. How would she reclaim her Honorblade from Shins who were 100% unwilling to return them to Heralds? She had to steal it, but it would be very hard to do without Surges. So while it's possible and there is enough time to do that (that's why I've mentioned a 1 year window), it's just unlikely.

From the narrative point of view, the reason is quite obvious - to shift the relationship between Dalinar and the Stormfather and introduce more conflict. Remember that time in RoW when Shallan suspected Pattern of treason and working with Ghostbloods? Even if that was a very short lived thing, it turned their relationship upside down for a moment and led to something bigger. As for while the Stormfather wasn't doing anything in that direction after Gavilar was killed, it's simple - a Herald died, soon they will break and a new Desolation will start. There is no way to prevent it from coming in such a short timeframe. They're doomed and there is also no clear way to stop this Desolation as even Odium can't force his Fused to remain on Braize - now Fused souls are bound to the Everstorm, being reborn in it and they don't return to Braize after their death - they're fully going around the Oathpact. Of course that's it he wanted to even make new Heralds, I wouldn't be so sure about it as the way he said it was... weird. I think the problem with BAM is that she had those Connections, but doesn't have them now. Her imprisonment in a gemstone broke all her Connections, which in turn wounded all spren, beings and most importantly Singers. It's like how it was with Jezrien. Trapping him in a gemstone broke all his Connections to the PR and to the Oathpact, allowing his soul to fade into the Beyond. BAM should not be able to do any of this.

Band names? Roshar is full of them! Nightblood sounds metal as hell! Voidbringers, Dawnsingers, Dustbringers, Skybreakers, Windrunners, Oathbringer, Stormfather or Nightwacher - pick a random chapter from SA and you will find a cool name for a band.

In my opinion it's not about words specifically in this passage, it's about intent. This is the only time Gavilar meant the words he was speaking, every other time he was just guessing random quotes from the Way of Kings book. Here he had the right intent behind them, he really wanted power, he really needed it - intent was there, but this time the words were very wrong. That's why it's "almost" - for an Ideal to be accepted both intent and words must be matched. He needs to find the right intent and correct words would come to him. And the Stormfather even said it later: Personally, I believe that there is no Stormfaker, it's just a Stormfather who's manipulating and lying to Gavilar. Heralds and Honor were the only parties in the Oathpact: The Oathpact forms a cage from souls and cages are generally used to imprison someone against their will. There is no need to involve Fused or Odium in the Oathpact. OB ch 47: The Oathpact is greater than Odium's imprisonment, but it's still a part of it:

I'll add more, please avoid writing spoilers in the title of topics because those titles are visible from the main page.

Or there was no blade in the safe at all and it was all a lie Shallan was telling herself, a part of her self deception. It's possible Lyn took Shallan's Testament and hid it in the safe, but it dissapeared the moment he closed the doors, as Testament was in the garden when Shallan broke her bond. Since then there was no blade in the safe. But as you see it doesn't work well with the fact that Shallan opened the safe after killing her father and took the Shardblade out. At first I thought it's another self-deception of her, to protect her from truth and in reality she summoned the blade and pretended that she took it out - however it doesn't make sense as Shallan opened herself to all truth regarding Testament, there is no point in lying that she somehow took Testament out of the safe. So it's either another 3rd blade like you suggest, or there was never any blade hidden in the safe. It's a lie covering the last truth, which is that Chana was her mother. Shallan is lying to herself about what was in the box to hide another truth and I don’t think it has to be any blade. So it was Shallan who killed Chana with Chana's Honorblade? Because there is no other way for Lyn to grab the Honorblade, it had to be in Shallan's hands. If it was dismissed with Chana then it would not appear next to her body as it would be immediately yanked with her to Braize. And that's a problem, why and how would Shallan suddenly get Chana's Honorblade in her hands?? She couldn't have been bonded with it back then, Chana had to be bonded with it. Moreover this shouldn't matter at all if the Honorblade bonded with Chana was left behind on Roshar (and the blade isn't a part of the Oathpact anyway), she would be pulled to Braize anyway. We know this because Nale could be on Braize while his spren would stay on Roshar. There should be no delay even if the Honorblade got somehow stuck on Roshar. And a bond with a spren is DEEPER than a bond with an Honorblade - if spren left behind on Roshar doesn't prevent a Herald from returning to Braize, I don't see how an Honorblade trapped on Roshar would do that. The bond with Honorblades isn't as deep as a Radiant bond, that makes them less efficient, which doesn't change when a Herald bonds them. Nale's bond with his spren is deeper than his bond with his Honorblade. And as I've said in another topic, there is only a 1 year long window between Szeth's banishment (who knew Shins had 8 blades in total) and Chana's death for Chana to somehow reclaim her Honorblade from the hands of Shins, who were unwilling to give them back to Heralds. It would be unlikely, but not impossible. Wait, so the Honorblade would be still bonded with Chana, while also being bonded with Shallan? I don't think that's possible. I don't think several people can be bonded with one Honorblade/Shardblade. I do agree that Chana's soul was somehow trapped in the safe, maybe it's even the Seon box Shallan remembers using (the safe was called a box quite a few times), but I doubt there was an Honorblade involved. I am more inclined to believe that Shallan lied to herself again in this KoWT chapter, pretending she took out Testament, to hide the truth that she did something with her mother's soul. Veil was created way back then as Shallan's way to hide the fact she killed her mother, Radiant was created probably around the same time, to hide the fact about her mother being Chana. Not specifically, but it seems it was after OB. Before that everything was fine in Shinovar, Rysn went there to trade, they were in contact with others like Dalinar after he rediscovered Urithiru etc. Only after OB they started to isolate themselves and shoot arrows towards Windrunners, so this must be when Unmades appeared. Only after this did Ishar come and reclaimed his Honorblade, killing Neturo.

Not exactly. They are healed to their Spiritual Ideal but filtered through their self-perception. Kaladin thought of himself as being branded so his scars couldn't be healed. Remove your body part?? That's extreme, dangerous and potentially would require a ton of healing - too much. Just touch a metalmind and tap health. The problem with tumor and cancer is that they are generally slow growing things, it can take years to develop them and in that time your perception will subconsciously include them and their symptoms as a part of your self-image - they would be treated like old wounds or Kaladin's scars, they would be treated as a part of you. They might be unhealable for someone who has no powers and just once touched an unsealed goldmind, at least if they don't do some mental gymnastics. However, for a person with constant access to inverted art, like a Radiant or a Bloodmaker, cancer or tumor won't ever develop, because whenever it starts to form in one cell, their healing would heal them back to a healthy state. That's because there wasn't nearly enough time for their self-perception to change and include cancer in their ideal image.

Possible. But we also know that Heralds were hiding on Braize for some time, before their torture starts. By this time most, if not all Fused were slumbering and it seems that all of this caught them off guard. Nobody expected another Herald to suddenly appear on Braize, which allowed Chana to hide on Braize for much longer, because either nobody was searching for her, or there were too few souls searching for her. However, was it said that the safe was opened by Shallan or her brothers? Wouldn't the time of the Jah Keved civil war correspond with the return of Taln? Wouldn't it be possible for the safe to remain unopened until one of the many armies conquered their house, possibly burning or pillaging it, thus releasing Chana's soul from the safe shortly before Taln's return? Yes, I did try to explain that there is still a chance for someone to steal a Honorblade and Szeth wouldn't have known about this, because he was out there killing people. Szeth would have a hard time to know what was happening in Shinovar afterall. But that's a short time frame - only around a year as he was banished in 1166 and in the next year, in 1167, he killed Gavilar (and Chana died). And that someone needs to steal the blade, just revealing themselves as Heralds won't work. Ishar did it under vastly different circumstances. He did it somewhere after OB, when Unmades were already in control of Shinovar and he killed Neturo, the previous holder of his Honorblade. Oh, that was just me providing quotes, I wasn't making any point there. Shallan is an unreliable narrator, we can't count on her noticing that Kaladin's eye changed the moment she gave him her Honorblade (assuming that was it), she would have deceived herself about her own eye color and she might have been even able to subconsciously hide them under an illusion if needed (after all, in RoW she said she remembered using her Surges before bonding Pattern). I suspect that's because Heralds are Cognitive Shadows, their self-perception might be enough to overwrite that aspect of Shardblades and keep their eyes the same.

I think that's a wrong section for this kind of topic, I will ask mods to move it somewhere better.

I wouldn't say better, but more efficient. Heralds would be still way above any 5th Ideal Radiant. I agree, we don't know what the full potential of Honorblades is, even the Stormfather said they would make you more than what a Radiant is. To add more, Heralds were feeding directly from Honor - the efficiency problem with Honorblade would not matter to them. OB ch 16:

The problem with this is that Szeth confirmed that Shins have 8 blades and only Nale and Taln's blades are missing. He knows this because he trained with every Surge, he had access to blades. There would be a very short window of opportunity for someone to steal a Honorblade between the time Szeth was named Truthless and Shallan's mother was killed. Moreover, per Szeth's words, Shins were unwilling to return Honorblades to Heralds, so it would have to be taken by force - and Surges would be needed for that. OB ch 106: OB ch 120: RoW ch 111: That's true, but lighteyes eye color is affected by blades - both Honorblades and living Shardblade change the color to pale, almost glowing one, lighter than that of any lighteye. People who just hold an Honorblade would be recognizable by their eyes. WoK I-3: OB ch 64: WoR ch 87: Please try to avoid double posting as it's against the site's policy. You can just edit your previous post (click the three dots at the top right corner of your post, then "edit"), or use the multi quote tool (the "+" button at the bottom of each post and once used it a window with option to "quote all" will appear in the bottom right corner of your screen).

Mistborn spoilers: Edit: More Mistborn Spoilers: We don't know what precisely, but the Musings of El suggest that El was stripped of his title and Rhythms by suggesting to treat humans somewhat equally to Singers and incorporate them into Odium forces to a greater extent - to use their Passions, instead of killing them. Taravangian seems to agree with El. RoW epigraphs: Yes, had the power to do it, but he most likely would not have done this. That's a big change. A Vessel's interpretation of laws, oaths and terms can influence their meaning. With a new Vessel, Odium can do things that Rayse wouldn't have been able to because of his interpretation of oaths. RoW ch 116: