Vin(Diesel)

Kaladin attained the 5th Ideal, got stuffed full of Stormlight, and then became a Herald and left. Why on earth couldn't we have seen what powers a 5th Ideal Windrunner has? All the fans were speculating about it, he reached the 5th Ideal, and bang, he's gone. What the hey, Brandon? I guess we know he can hold a lot of Stormlight, but that was obvious. For that matter, we don't really know what a 5th Ideal Skybreaker can do, despite Szeth reaching the 5th Ideal, because Nale is a Herald, not just a 5th Ideal Skybreaker, so we don't know what abilities of his are from his Ideals, and Szeth renounced his bond immediately after reaching the 5th Ideal. Why don't we get to know what the 5th Ideal does?

Adolin decided that oaths can be broken, but not promises. I don't get what he means. If he just meant that a promise is a vow you deeply believe in, then I have two problems with that: one, don't make promises you don't believe in. Two, what are people supposed to do when you make them a vow? Should they ask, "And do you believe in that? How much?" I accept that terrible actions don't become good just because you made an oath to do them, but Adolin's musings still seem like a bit of a mess. Maybe they're meant to. Adolin is a good dude, but not the infallible voice of wisdom. What do you think?

I was disappointed overall, though I did like large parts of it. Kaladin and Szeth's character arcs were a very mixed bag. Yes, Szeth needed to learn to think for himself and Kaladin to look after himself, but could Szeth not have learned WHY he should think for himself? He is a person, yes, not a thing. But the reason persons should think for themselves isn't because of warm fuzzies or whatever other unexplained reason; it's because persons have an innate conscience, and listening to it, rather than pretending that only the Stone Shamans have consciences, is both a right and a duty for each person. Without that clarified, it sounds like some stupid "follow your bliss" moral. Frankly, Kaladin's moral arc almost sounded like "follow your bliss" too. Yes, Kaladin's bliss was protecting people. But what if his bliss were gouging people's eyes out? Both men basically learned that line from "Hamlet," "Above all, to thine own self be true." But in "Hamlet," that line is spoken by a stupid blowhard. No. Don't do what you want because it's what you want. They landed in the right place, but I find it implausible that they would find some of their own claims plausible, phrased as they were. They know better. They know choices aren't good just because they choose them. You SHOULD care for yourself (and others, prioritizing whichever has more right to your help in a given situation) and you SHOULD make individual choices (informed by you consciences and whatever sources of information your own mind has found to be reliable). But they shouldn't have said it in ways that sounded so much like Woody Allen's "the heart wants what it wants." Their words sounded so much like they came specifically from the minds of late 20th/early 21st century Americans.... I wonder if it would have been better if Brandon had framed these issues in some older way than what is essentially the self-care movement, which is so recent people are still sorting it out in their own minds. Szeth and Kaladin's moral arguments were poor and perhaps anachronistic, even though they got both men where they needed to be. That is probably my biggest complaint. Iirc, Adolin and Shallan reasoned on similar lines a bit. If a moral argument is going to be such a big theme in a 1400 page book, it had better be very solid and deeply thought out, and I just didn't think it was. Also, why are the 5th ideals of both the Skybreakers and the Windrunners oaths that are obvious and easy for a large fraction of people? Shouldn't 5th ideals be oaths that most people would find extremely difficult to swear? Don't lots of people easily look after themselves and make their own decisions? Sure, they were really hard for Szeth and Kaladin, but that was because of their individual problems. I don't think most Windrunners would have as much difficulty swearing the 5th ideal as they would swearing most of the others. The Skybreakers... well, they're an unusual bunch of folks under Nale, but I don't think that's always been the case, and I don't think a more average bunch would have much trouble promising to use their own judgement/conscience. After years of struggle and development, is it really the pinnacle of honorable human achievement to swear not to be pathologically unselfish or join a cult? Not knocking anyone who struggles with those things: Kaladin and Szeth are good people, and they struggled. But do most people really have those specific struggles, and to the extent they have to wait until the 5th ideal to triumph? I also think we switched POV too frequently, though it was impressive to see Brandon make so many viewpoints fit together in one story. I found it yanked me out of the story. The Spiritual Realm was cool, but it was disappointing because it had been built up as this great, almost transcendent thing beyond human comprehension. Now it's just a barrel of visions where time passes differently. I know Sanderson isn't exactly known for numinous, awe-inspiring concepts, but it's almost like he retconned one of his few concepts like that out of existence. I liked the ending. I'm glad Dalinar got to be humble, good, and brilliant. I would've guessed he'd end up being Odium's Fused or become the vessel of Honor/Odium and start conquering the Cosmere either way, so I'm relieved he didn't. I thought Adolin might die, and I thought that would be the least sad MC death since he has already lived a happy (if short) life and doesn't need to complete a steep character arc, but Dalinar's death actually wasn't that sad; he died well, having been loved, having achieved much, and having become a good man. His death was meaningful and he was already old-ish. I think that Dalinar's soul was claimed by the true, transcendent God that Dalinar believed in. I think Brandon will never tell us who claimed Dalinar's soul, because he says that though he, Brandon, knows whether there really is a transcendent God over the Cosmere, he won't reveal the answer because his characters need to keep believe different things about that and he doesn't want to alter their some of their characters by rebutting them. He will leave us with the possibilities that it was the true God or Evi or Adonalsium's soul or whatever. I like to think that Dalinar's hope was true and that it saved him in the end. I say it's God anyway: I can't think why Sanderson would've written that in the death scene of, (if I'm not mistaken) the only character in the Cosmere who believes specifically in a transcendent God as opposed to some in-universe god like Adonalsium, unless he meant to hint that Dalinar's long-held hope did not disappoint. Poor Gavinor. Taravodium had to come up with a hideously clever choice of champions. The story wouldn't have been as good if he hadn't. It was still painful. I can bear it because Gav got to see that Odium betrayed him and Dalinar died for him, so now he has an excellent chance not to be the hate-filled pawn he was raised to be. I hope he's okay in books 6-10. I wouldn't have guessed Azir would be the main country left in the end. I wonder if Yanagawn will be a more central character in the back 5. I hope we see more of Lift. Nor would I have guessed that Brandon would rebut Jasnah's utiliarianism (or Philosophy of Aspiration, as it's called on Roshar). He said he wouldn't rebut her atheism, as I said above, but he rebutted the other main pillar of her thinking quite thoroughly here. I wonder why. It was probably necessary if she's going to be a main character in the back 5, though. The the supremely confident adult who always knows best and doesn't have to change wouldn't be very interesting for hundreds of pages of POV in this kind of novel. I was really hoping for more Lirin, but I guess I can see why that didn't happen. Brandon's habit of making characters lose their bodies (and their access to their friends) when they level up... isn't to my taste. I think our bodies are a fundamental part of us. Maybe he doesn't think that, and so maybe vaporizing them doesn't feel like such a loss to Brandon. Or maybe he intends it to be sad. How do you all feel about that aspect of Kaladin's acceptance into the Heralds? So the highspren don't become deadeyes? They just... keep their distance, and that does the trick? And their Radiants can still access two surges, plate and blade? If it's that easy, why don't all the spren do that? Is Shallan pregnant? I was a little confused because she put her hand on her stomach, but then it said she'd taken a long time to "recover." Did she just have a stomach wound I forgot about, or did it mean recover emotionally? Did her tryst with her husband in the shower have big results? Is Navani comatose with the Sibling now? Will they both be comatose indefinitely? Is Ba-Ado-Mishram going to go postal now or be their ally or what? It's rather a large question to leave unanswered and I think even unnoted at the end of the book. What were the unmade originally? I was wondering if Mishram would turn out to be the original Night or something. Fourth moon on the Shattered Plains. Cool. Wonder what will become of that tidbit. Do you think they'll find a way to make the Oathgates work? Will they find a way to make Towerlight work outside Urithiru? Will Cultivation return to Roshar if Retribution hides somewhere else? We got hints that Shards might be able to learn new intents. That might be the solution to the cosmere-wide problem of shardic intents being problematic when taken to the nth degree (as shards do). But that would follow Sanderson's disappointing pattern of creating these strange, otherworldly concepts and then reducing them to different shades of ordinary (I'm looking at you, Spiritual Realm). He's already shown that the spren can change, that they're regular people in spite of their supposed nature, so I suspect he will do the same for the Shards. Making Renarin and Rlain the first human-singer couple doesn't raise the issue of how people will react to a mixed race (mixed species?) child. Imagine if Renarin had married a Listener lady and his heir was half-"voidbringer." Brandon has confirmed that human man + singer woman is a fertile pairing, so if the two groups are hanging out now, it's going to happen, and soon. Would've been interesting to see it happen where Kholin inheritance and succession were at stake, but maybe Brandon thought he had enough balls to juggle already. And maybe he'll avoid the whole thing by having Urithiru stay cut off from the Shattered Plains like it is from the rest of the world. You know, widespread intermarriage MIGHT be a solution to racial conflict. Can't have race wars if you're all one blended race. And just giving 75% of the population a cousin of another race might get *some* people to see sense. I'm in a sort of mixed-race marriage myself. Admittedly, marriages like mine haven't ended racism in my country. People can be stubborn. Sorry if I've misremembered a few points. I didn't feel like searching through the book to check things. Correct me if you like.

I love Brandon Sanderson’s writing. I’ve read everything he’s written, most of it multiple times. I am very excited for the Wind and Truth release. But the Wind and Truth sample chapters read like Brandon is fan servicing somehow. I’m not sure that’s the right way to put it. Kaladin has a warm moment with his family, cool. Info dump from Wit. We all wanted it. Shallan says another Oath. Check another box on the list of things to make us excited. And now weird Syladin stuff. It seems more like fan fiction to me than like the start of a Stormlight novel. Like it’s just a bunch of stuff we should want all slapped together. I know, I’m kind of complaining about getting what fans want. But really, it isn’t necessarily what the fans want. We want a novel with these moments, not those moments served us on a cheap platter. I hope I’m wrong. I hope Wind and Truth will grow on me, and by the end of the book the first chapters will look good in perspective. And I hope I’m not being too negative. Brandon has given us a lot of happiness, and I don’t want to write unfair criticism about his work.

I don’t see how that would affect her reliability as a narrator, though, except maybe for a few things she says about her family.

Brandon has told us that Shallan is an unreliable narrator, which makes me think we have at least one more big reveal about her, something that makes her lie about many things in her life to conceal it from herself. What big thing could effect many areas of Shallan’s life?

Szeth has sworn to obey the will of Dalinar Kholin until he finds a better way. So if Dalinar loses the contest of champions, and if Dalinar keeps his oath to conquer for Odium through the Cosmere, Szeth will probably be bound to fight for Odium too until he reaches the 5th ideal. By the way, the fact that we have only seen Skybreakers in future Cosmere scenes seems like evidence that only the Skybreakers will fight for Odium, which is the current situation and could mean that Dalinar wins, but could also mean that none of the other orders consider themselves bound by Dalinar’s law. I could see Szeth reaching the 5th ideal being a climactic late-Cosmere moment. He becomes the law, then puts fused Dalinar out of his misery just before he can kill Harmony for Odium or something. But at the beginning of Wind and Truth Szeth is rushing to fulfill the 4th ideal and Kaladin is planning to try to help him regain his mental health, so he might reach the 5th ideal much sooner than that.

BTW, a Pyrrhic victory means a victory that costs the winner so much that it wasn’t worth winning.

I’ve read the theory that Shallan and Chana are the same person. Yes, not just mother and daughter, but the same person. I can’t find where I read about this theory. Can someone point me to the thread about this, if in fact there is one? The more I think about it, the more I want the theory to be true. It would be so metal. It would also explain why the Cryptics are determined to keep sending spren to be killed by Shallan: they’re trying to help Chana speak enough truths to regain her sanity. I think the idea was that Chana had a daughter whom she killed, whose name was Shallan. On killing her, Chana lightweaved to assume Shallan’s place, taking on her identity as an alter to protect herself from the guilt of having killed her daughter—and possibly from all the Herald-related trauma. Though she might have already made a different alter to protect herself from that. I’m not sure it would work—Shallan was probably shorter than Chana at that point, and I don’t know how she could have fooled Lin Davar, who was apparently in the room at the time. Anyway, I’m happy to shift this discussion to the original thread, and I really want the original thread so I can read all the pros and cons. Anyone have it?

Finally a depiction of Szeth that doesn’t make him look like an anime character. I have such a hard time giving him Caucasian features in my mind. And I do know that not all anime characters have to be Asian. It’s just how my mind works.

It does sound more like Lirin or Szeth than Kaladin, and Kaladin had dreams and aspirations from quite a young age. I want it to be Lirin. I know it’s controversial, but I like Lirin a lot. Hope you’re right. It’s a little weird that, as far as we know, Lirin has never caught the eye of a Radiant Spren. It seems like honorspren and cultivationspren should be be swarming around him, and Kaladin did see him seem to glow once, when Lirin was facing down the thieves in Hearthstone.

Teknopathetic, it’s very impressive that you guessed that Taln didn’t break. I’ll be keeping an eye out for the glowing safe now! For some reason I thought that Hoid was the Herald that Taln replaced. I think I read someone’s theory and found it persuasive, but I don’t remember the argument, except for something about topaz.

Can Odium talk to just anyone, or does he require a connection? Yes, he invaded Kaladin’s mind before, but that was when Kaladin was in a very dark, perhaps-Odium-Connected place. This Wind and Truth chapter shows Kaladin in a very different state. Obviously, Kaladin has Connection with Honor, but Tanavast is dead, and it doesn’t seem to be the Stormfather speaking. Maybe the Stormfather, though, isn’t really merged with the cognitive shadow of Tanavast. Maybe the Stormfather is being a Stormfaker throughout the Stormlight Archive! And Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow is elsewhere. Nah…. I don’t buy that all the Radiant Oaths have been accepted by an impostor. Seriously, why would Kaladin perceive anyone’s voice as being from the winds other than Syl, the Stormfather, or Tanavast? Maybe another honorspren, though I don’t know why it wouldn’t just appear to him. Tanavast is confirmed by WOBs to be dead. So I guess I’ve talked myself into thinking it might be a deception. Also, why does the voice refer to “the Bondsmith” when there are two bondsmiths now? Is Kaladin right to assume that it means Dalinar?

The power to read your own mind The ability to eat dirt. You can’t get nourishment from it, it just doesn’t hurt you to eat it. Stinging jellyfish. Tired of being stung by jellyfish? Now you can sting them back. Flying in your sleep. Like sleepwalking, but where you find yourself upon waking is even more unpredictable. *Crash* Making people believe you are an Epic Making people believe you aren’t an Epic The ability to lick yourself clean like a cat Coughing up hairballs like a cat Getting the hiccups at will

Where do you think would be a better place for it?