Chapters 31 and 32

[CtrlAltDepressed]

31 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

hoid has a special holy rock from ashyn because he was there when they crossed planets... wait, did he kept it for 7000 years in his pocket?

yes  wob (emphasis mine):

 

Spoiler

Questioner

If Hoid took lerasium in Mistborn: Secret History, does that mean his hemalurgic spikes are feruchemical?

Brandon Sanderson

What hemalurgic spikes?

Questioner

Hoid and his magic systems, he had hemalurgic spikes...

Brandon Sanderson

He does hold some. They may not be in him. Does that make sense? Hoid has hemalurgic spikes carried with him. ('Cause the people who asked me if Hoid has hemalurgic spikes didn't say which one.) He does not necessarily have them spiking him. He actually has, like, a little bandolier type thing. Hoid's got one of those with a bunch of spikes. He was gonna use them in one of the books, but it turned out to not be necessary, so I didn't put it in.

 

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Yeah I'm a little confused about Mraize's intentions there. He presumably wanted to use the perpendicularity to sneak into the Spiritual Realm, but instead he removed the only two Bondsmiths who can lead him to his goal? Maybe the original plan was just a coverup, but then why would he want to get rid of Dalinar and Navani... What could that possibly accomplish? I doubt he's on Odium's side.

Argh so many questions! What a wild couple of chapters.

Regardless I'm not convinced that Dalinar and Navani are completely trapped. Mraize must know something that led him to make such a seemingly bad decision.

 

You’re overthinking it he just did that to make an explosion so you could get away

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

26 minutes ago, alder24 said:

We know what happens when a perpendicularity collapses, we saw it happening when Szeth thrusted Nightblood into Dalinar's perpendicularity in RoW ch 111. Nobody was sucked into it, nobody was pulled into SR. I don't think this situation is any different.

That's a fair point, but I feel like a perpendicularity being hit by something that consumes investiture (Nightblood) would have a different effect from something that destroys investiture (anti-light). Nightblood basically just sucked it up and shut it down right? Whereas this was much more explosive, and I could see that creating some kind of vacuum effect

[Stark he/him]

For me, I'm just worried how the Sibling and Stormfather will react to their Bondsmiths being lost in the Spiritual realm...

[mariapapadia she/her]

I for one am glad to see someone’s  reaction to Shallan’s connection to the GB. And even that wasn’t as big & dramatic as I would’ve expected it to be. 
For the last 2books (OB & ROW) we’ve been spamed with Shallan’s inner turmoil regarding how Adolin & Jasnah & the rest would react to her working with the GB and when it was finally revealed it was brushed over (& the message conveyed to Dalinar & Navani through Adolin ).
So thank you Renarin for finally acknowledging it! One of the weak points of ROW for me was the skipping of some scenes that would’ve made for some dramatic moments between the characters, so I hope W&T won’t repeat the same pattern.

I also appreciate the little bits about Renarin’s perception of his surroundings. I don’t remember if he being on the spectrum was confirmed? 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Just now, mariapapadia said:

that would’ve made for some dramatic moments between the characters

That is a problem of Stormlight Archive as a whole

[teknopathetic he/him]

3 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Personally, I'm way more annoyed with Shallan in this case, feels more like her fault than Mraize's. Her 'instincts' gave the Ghostbloods the perfect setup.

 

I was almost wondering if she was being manipulated or soothed or rioted into certain actions. 

---

Also, anyone else suspicious of the "wind" that was released by the perpendicularity? I wonder if they just accidentally helped The Wind escape whatever prison it has found itself in. 

Edited November 18, 2024 by teknopathetic

[The Sovereign]

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Confirmation that Mraize and Iyatil have corrupted Cryptics. 

I don't think we actually have enough information to "know" this. It is possible one of them have a Enlightened Cryptic but it could be an Enlightened Mistspren; We know Renarin's Illumination surge is wonky but what is to say that is true of all Enlightened Mistspren? It is possible some have normal Illumination and Wonky Progression instead. Also if it is true that Lieke doesn't have a Spren, then either Iyatil or Mraize has a Enlightened Inkspren or Lightspren since one of them has access to the surge of Transportation.

Another very interesting tidbit from these chapters:

Quote

 

“They would have spren with them. Maybe hiding within their hosts, as yours do?”

“Tumi says that is likely,” Rlain told her. “Any spren can learn to do it, even on this side.”

 

Spren don't have to manifest, even in Shadesmar. But, it is something that needs to be learned.

Edited November 18, 2024 by The Sovereign

[teknopathetic he/him]

Anyone else noticing all the "The Tower makes things too easy" discussion? It seems pretty heavy handed in the last few chapters:
 

1. Renarin talks about how easy farming is now and the cooperation Rlain gave isn't as meaningful anymore
2. Then we cut to Navani telling Gav that the tower must be good because look at how easy it makes their lives
3. Then we cut to Nohadon saying he left his people because life was made too easy for everyone with him there.

Are we trying to set up the fact that living in The Tower makes people too complacent? Or the leaders/radiants there forget about the toil and exploitation that occurs outside the tower? Does Tower-Life lead to excess? Inhumanity? Isolationism? 

Edited November 18, 2024 by teknopathetic

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

30 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I was almost wondering if she was being manipulated or soothed or rioted into certain actions. 

Ah, yes - this is actually a really good point. It did seem a little strange how rushed she was, and how she just ignored questions from Renarin and pushed for him to ignore those questions too and just trust her, keep moving, that sort of feeling. They could have been soothing her doubts/nervousness and rioting her confidence to help keep her focused on acting instead of thinking too much. I sometimes forget to consider the magic systems from outside Roshar being a possibility, especially when dealing with the Ghostbloods!

32 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Also, anyone else suspicious of the "wind" that was released by the perpendicularity? I wonder if they just accidentally helped The Wind escape whatever prison it has found itself in. 

Hmm I don't know if I would take it that far. I guess we will see if there seems to be a marked difference in the Wind's strength or ability to communicate with Kaladin after this event. My gut says it was just a regular rushing of wind or perhaps just symbolizing a connection to Honor (the Wind is of Honor-type thing) as they enter the Spiritual Realm. From what we know, it was rOdium being replaced by tOdium was what caused a significant difference in the Wind's ability to manifest/interact with people

[GudThymes he/him]

I was thinking about how could Mraize, Iyatil, and Lieke get to The Tower so quickly to then be with Shallan as her "guards". Well, since we know that they have light weavings consider that the three in the boat were actually their Spren (or just light weavings) and the "transportation" was itself a lightweaving that left the trip "invisible" and then sneaky sneaky they're with Shallan the entire time.

 

Otherwise, what a couple of chapters. I am so glad to see that the anti-light is being used for something other than just killing Spren. Albeit I'm a little confused on the mechanics. My understanding is that the anti-light should only take out an equal amount of stormlight and given that a perpendicularity is "infinite" how would that actually cause the collapse?

 

Something about moment instability creating turbulence or something like that? It wouldn't break anything about bonds or powers but just causing a momentary disruption during the reaction?

Edited November 18, 2024 by GudThymes

[earthexile]

Hey is this the first time Shallan has just straight up iced a guy with her 'illusions?' She can just unleash Radiant as a real lady in real armor with a real blade and kill people? That's insane

[teknopathetic he/him]

11 minutes ago, earthexile said:

Hey is this the first time Shallan has just straight up iced a guy with her 'illusions?' She can just unleash Radiant as a real lady in real armor with a real blade and kill people? That's insane

She did it in an earlier chapter during the Shadesmaar bead fight scene. After she swore/remembered a new Testement ideal, Shallan fought a singer who said something like "Transubstantiation? I thought your kind had forbidden such magic". 

She also did it a tiny bit in the battle of Theylan City, but she just gave her illusions a touch of mass. 

It appears that her soulcasting was being stunted by her weird bond with Testament. Now that Shallan is fixing that bond, she is actually getting access to supercharged Soulcasting. This could be a good thing, but may be a bad thing seeing as radiants in the past had banned whatever it is Shallan can do now. 

Edited November 18, 2024 by teknopathetic

[earthexile]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Also, anyone else suspicious of the "wind" that was released by the perpendicularity? I wonder if they just accidentally helped The Wind escape whatever prison it has found itself in. 

We've seen the perpendicularity blast away Invested beings, the Fused in Shadesmar when Dalinar first summoned it. It didn't affect the humans and spren, but it drove back the Fused, which suggests to me that it was to do with their Voidlight.

When this perpendicularity gets blown up or whatever by Anti-Stormlight, maybe a similar blasting effect would be felt by people with Stormlight in them?

[FollowYourMuse she/her]

8 hours ago, Kfish said:

 The one thing that makes me think Nohadon may have been involved in some way is the "light" showing Dalinar a vision of Nohadon. Sure, maybe Honor itself reached out and managed to connect Dalinar to Nohadon in a way to help him but it still feels weird.

 

With this last few chapters and Hoid's infodumps, on how "peeking" into SR works. 
I  think the light Dalinar saw was a form of perpendicularity, and the connection he made to Nohadon was normal  Bondsmith (pre-bondsmith) stuff,  He was already in a vision and connected to the SR by the StormFather,  because of his constant thoughts on the book, he unknowingly connected himself to Nohodon in the SR. 

[Ewery1]

5 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Anyone else noticing all the "The Tower makes things too easy" discussion? It seems pretty heavy handed in the last few chapters:
 

1. Renarin talks about how easy farming is now and the cooperation Rlain gave isn't as meaningful anymore
2. Then we cut to Navani telling Gav that the tower must be good because look at how easy it makes their lives
3. Then we cut to Nohadon saying he left his people because life was made too easy for everyone with him there.

Are we trying to set up the fact that living in The Tower makes people too complacent? Or the leaders/radiants there forget about the toil and exploitation that occurs outside the tower? Does Tower-Life lead to excess? Inhumanity? Isolationism? 

 

7 hours ago, Stark said:

For me, I'm just worried how the Sibling and Stormfather will react to their Bondsmiths being lost in the Spiritual realm...

These two comments together are making me concerned… I know that the Sibling was around without Navani and was totally fine for a long time… but could her presence have changed something? What’s going to happen to Urithiru in her absence?

Edited November 19, 2024 by Ewery1

[morcey2]

Possible out-of-left-field theory:  The two active Bondsmiths are likely stuck in the SR. 

Is this where Lift bonds the Nightwatcher to get them back?  The Sibling already created a room for the Nightwatcher to come visit.  With all the discussions of bonding multiple spren and the other oddities that Lift seems to have, does that happen?  Or, if Dalinar's visions happen in the SR, she's already shown that she can get in them AND get people out of them (taking Gawks out of the vision in OB.) 

It's past my bedtime so I'll probably read this tomorrow and it won't make any sense to me, either. 

[teknopathetic he/him]

34 minutes ago, morcey2 said:

Possible out-of-left-field theory:  The two active Bondsmiths are likely stuck in the SR. 

Is this where Lift bonds the Nightwatcher to get them back?  The Sibling already created a room for the Nightwatcher to come visit.  With all the discussions of bonding multiple spren and the other oddities that Lift seems to have, does that happen?  Or, if Dalinar's visions happen in the SR, she's already shown that she can get in them AND get people out of them (taking Gawks out of the vision in OB.) 

It's past my bedtime so I'll probably read this tomorrow and it won't make any sense to me, either. 

Maybe thats *why* she was given the power. Cultivation maybe wanted an agent to slide in and out...

Also, would Lift age/change if she decided to live in the Spiritual Realm? Maybe thats the way of fulfilling her boon?

Edited November 19, 2024 by teknopathetic

[Slappyface]

9 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Also, anyone else suspicious of the "wind" that was released by the perpendicularity? I wonder if they just accidentally helped The Wind escape whatever prison it has found itself in. 

I read that as they entered the vision fully, the migration would happen after the destruction of Ashyn so I think the wind and screams are the chaos and panic during the migration.

[RedBlue]

Quote

“Nohadon is his holy name. Others call him Bajerden, though we’re not certain whether that was actually his real name or not.”

—TWoK, chapter 58

Quote

The name Nohadon was more of a title. Many famous people in history had been given holy names by the Church, before it was disbanded.

—TWoK, chapter 60
 

I know it’s a small detail, but TWoK makes a point that Nohadon is not Nohadon’s original name. As I recall, Nohadon’s real name has never been revealed.

This could turn out to be just flavour text, but given how much feels a little ‘off’ about Nohadon, I’m half-expecting an identity reveal in this book.

[BinarySecond]

Nohadan is an anagram for "I am Dalinar Kholin"

Peak fiction.

[+Child of Hodor]

46 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I know it’s a small detail, but TWoK makes a point that Nohadon is not Nohadon’s original name. As I recall, Nohadon’s real name has never been revealed.

This could turn out to be just flavour text, but given how much feels a little ‘off’ about Nohadon, I’m half-expecting an identity reveal in this book.

I forgot about that. He's so important to Dalinar. He wrote his favorite book, he was alive for the founding of Urithiru, the symbol he wears as a young man became the symbol of the Knights Radiant, he showed up in Dalinar's dreams and took him shopping.  I would expect something more to be revealed about him or for Dalinar to have another conversation with him or whatever that was Dalinar talked to. 

I don't think he's Tanavast though. Nohadon was around and seemed to play a role in the founding of the Knight's Radiant and Tanavast said he had nothing to do with it and was surprised by their creation. 

Quote

"I was surprised when these orders arrived. I did not teach my Heralds this. It was the spren - wishing to imitate what I had given men - who made it possible." 

Tanavast - WoR Ch. 4

Now we could say he's lying or from a "certain point of view"-ing it, but I just don't think so. I think Nohadan was just a guy doing his best who wrote a book. A king, but not a god. If abdication comes into play in this book it will probably be one of the current vessels who does it. 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 hour ago, RedBlue said:

I know it’s a small detail, but TWoK makes a point that Nohadon is not Nohadon’s original name. As I recall, Nohadon’s real name has never been revealed.

This could turn out to be just flavour text, but given how much feels a little ‘off’ about Nohadon, I’m half-expecting an identity reveal in this book.

I really think Nohadon is Tanavast. That Tanavast stepped down from Honor and became a mortal, was a king for a while, then stepped down from that too.

[BinarySecond]

7 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

I really think Nohadon is Tanavast. That Tanavast stepped down from Honor and became a mortal, was a king for a while, then stepped down from that too.

Rayse status: Bamboozled, duped and possibly absolutely hoodwinked.

[duladen he/him]

On 11/18/2024 at 9:56 AM, CognitiveShadow said:

All we've gotten from Brandon is that Honor's cognitive shadow is attached to the Stormfather. This gives plenty of leeway for it to be the copy of Tanavast (techinically a cognitive shadow anyway) that slowly developed and morphed into it's own entity while Tanavast was back on Roshar as a mortal playing king instead of god. It would still make total sense for this Tanavast 2.0 to attach part of their awareness to the Stormfather as they were being killed by Odium. In fact, I think that Honor did this specifically with the intent of helping select and guide an unchained bondsmith. I think they set the power in a semi safe place in the Spiritual Realm so that when they had an unchained bondsmith bonded to them, they could then get that bondsmith to force Honor's power to connect to and merge with Odium's power, hopefully neutralizing some of Odium's more destructive tendencies.

But I believe this plan backfires and Taravangian ends up holding at least two shards, but with more control over them than he would have had over just Odium alone.

Wouldn't Nohadon technically be a cognitive shadow in this situation, too? Tanavast's body would have vaporized upon Ascension, so I suspect that if he abdicated Honor to live as a human again then he formed a new body much like the Heralds have new physical forms created each Return.

That leads to the question... if this theory is correct, then which cognitive shadow merged with the Stormfather? The one left behind to hold Honor or Nohadon himself?