Chapters 31 and 32

[BinarySecond]

https://reactormag.com/read-wind-and-truth-by-brandon-sanderson-chapters-31-and-32/

 

I just think I hate Mraize; He just sucks.

 

I love Renarin. I don't like not being able to see the Enlightened Spren because I thought they'd look super cool.

 

I don't think I understand what happened. Were the Ghostbloods in the physical realm and jumped into the Cognitive Realm when they made their attack?

Edited November 18, 2024 by BinarySecond

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Wow wow wow. So so much.

 

Hoid uses perpendicularity's to access visions of the future. Of course he does. Thats really cool to get confirmation on this. 

 

Confirmation that Mraize and Iyatil have corrupted Cryptics. 

 

I REALLY thought we were going to get a glimpse of the Ashyn migration but OH NO HERE COMES MRAIZE LIKE THE KOOL AID MAN. 

 

This really sucks for Navani and Dalinar. I figured something would go wrong with the Spiritual Realm investigation, but didnt expect it with the experiment! Yikes. I dont even begin to understand how they are going to get back. Both bondsmiths are now MIA for an unforseen amount of time.

 

Is this going to weaken Navanis bond to the sibling while shes in there?

 

I think Hoid is the only person capable of helping them get out. Will he be willing? Is that even a possibility? I suppose Sja-Anat could help them too. 

 

Im wary of this entrapment of Dalinar and Navani. I feel teased by these promises of seeing past events and if we lost that because of the imprisonment i will be kind of disappointed. I think we still have to see the stuff about Honor, but I was really believing we would get more. 

Edited November 18, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[the_archduke]

What happens to the contest if Dalinar doesn't show up in 8 days?  I assume a forfeit and TOdium wins?

 

Did Mraize let Shallan think he was going to spy on Dalinar when it was really an assassination, or was the collapsing the perpendicularity cutting his losses when the first plan went awry?   

[Darvys]

Couldn't the Ghostbloods just kill the radiants on the way when their guard was down ? Some pact with Sja Anat forbidding the harm of other enlightened maybe ?

The Windrunners failing to see the big picture and rushing to save 2 soldiers before the threats to the Bondsmiths are fully neutralized annoys me to no end as well, these two won't be swearing the fourth any time soon I guess.

The first experiment going off the rails took me completely off guard though, I was expecting the next few chapters to cover that and stew night before all hell breaks loose on Day 3, but seems nothing will go according to plan this book, fine by me.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

3 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Did Mraize let Shallan think he was going to spy on Dalinar when it was really an assassination, or was the collapsing the perpendicularity cutting his losses when the first plan went awry? 

Seemed more a spite move / cutting losses to me. They need a Bondsmith to get them to SR just as much as anyone else. Mraize may have shot himself in the foot with this move

[Ninth of the Night]

Yeah I'm a little confused about Mraize's intentions there. He presumably wanted to use the perpendicularity to sneak into the Spiritual Realm, but instead he removed the only two Bondsmiths who can lead him to his goal? Maybe the original plan was just a coverup, but then why would he want to get rid of Dalinar and Navani... What could that possibly accomplish? I doubt he's on Odium's side.

Argh so many questions! What a wild couple of chapters.

Regardless I'm not convinced that Dalinar and Navani are completely trapped. Mraize must know something that led him to make such a seemingly bad decision.

 

Edited November 18, 2024 by Ninth of the Night

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

48 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

I just think I hate Mraize; He just sucks.

Personally, I'm way more annoyed with Shallan in this case, feels more like her fault than Mraize's. Her 'instincts' gave the Ghostbloods the perfect setup.

16 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Did Mraize let Shallan think he was going to spy on Dalinar when it was really an assassination, or was the collapsing the perpendicularity cutting his losses when the first plan went awry?   

My guess is that the 'explosion' result of the collapsing perpendicularity might suck them all into the Spiritual Realm as well. I think Shallan, Renarin, and Rlain are going to have to navigate their way around the Spiritual Realm chasing Iyatil and Mraize while Dalinar and Navani also have their own journey through the realm looking for the truth about Honor's death and seeking his power.

14 minutes ago, Darvys said:

The first experiment going off the rails took me completely off guard though, I was expecting the next few chapters to cover that and stew night before all hell breaks loose on Day 3, but seems nothing will go according to plan this book, fine by me.

Agreed! Shallan's invasion of the GB's seemed to go way smoother than it should have, and then this initial test of the Spiritual Realm visions went way worse than I expected haha all my expectations are being subverted lol good job Brandon!

[+Child of Hodor]

Mraize, you big dummy, now how are you going to get to the spiritual realm? 

Dalinar next chapter: 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

10 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Regardless I'm not convinced that Dalinar and Navani are completely trapped. Mraize must know something that led him to make such a seemingly bad decision.

This is my thought as well. He seemed to know what would happen if he collapsed the perpendicularity - he said he's been told it is quite spectacular. My guess (as stated above) is that part of the collapse will also involve somehow sucking everyone in close proximity into the Spiritual Realm as well. That's the only reason I can think of for why he would do it. It definitely makes it more dangerous for them, but he's game to cut ties with their Hansel and Gretel breadcrumbs / safety net to help them get back if that means he will get to enter the realm and find BAM.

[Ninth of the Night]

Just now, CognitiveShadow said:

Personally, I'm way more annoyed with Shallan in this case, feels more like her fault than Mraize's. Her 'instincts' gave the Ghostbloods the perfect setup.

Agree. I said last week that I'd be mad if her next decision wasn't to immediately go inform Dalinar (which should have been done even before seeking out Renarin and Rlain). Yeah sure, she sent a Windrunner with the message, but she should have gone along to make sure Dalinar would actually listen. A random Windrunner isn't important enough to intrude on Dalinar's time but Shallan is.

Or she could have just directly asked the Sibling to relay the message to Navani. Would take significantly less time.

Shallan, honey, you are not Vin. Can't just rely on instincts, take a minute to think sometimes. I did laugh when Renarin thought about how she could use some common sense, because I was thinking the same thing!

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Shallan: There is a shadowy group trying to control Roshar

Rlain: Fym by that, didn't you just destroy them 3 seconds ago??

Shallan: No, another one. And I am a member

Rlain: ffs.

Meanwhile Hoid

Hey, heard you were going to the spiritual realm. Here's a rock I picked up from your original planet 7000 years ago, no biggie.

Navani: .....

How Renarin thinks Shallan thinks: Wheeeeeee look at me go!

 

 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

ALSO! My thoughts from the chapter headings: This HAS to be about Tanavast stepping down and abdicating from his role as Honor. It's just got to be alluding to that. I really think that Honor steps down, and that Nohadon is who he became as a mortal. I think he is truly dead now, but I suspect he may have constructed an axon-for-axon copy of himself out of Honor's investiture, using it to replace himself as the vessel. This would likely not change Honor's tone and still make it indistinguishable from himself... but then it would also explain why Honor became more and more obsessed with Oaths over time. I think the copy lost its structure over time and became something akin to what the Sibling warns about - a shard with no vessel that has it's own sentience/awareness. I think that's why Honor kind of fell apart down the road and was so easily defeated by Odium.

3 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Agree. I said last week that I'd be mad if her next decision wasn't to immediately go inform Dalinar (which should have been done even before seeking out Renarin and Rlain). Yeah sure, she sent a Windrunner with the message, but she should have gone along to make sure Dalinar would actually listen. A random Windrunner isn't important enough to intrude on Dalinar's time but Shallan is.

Or she could have just directly asked the Sibling to relay the message to Navani. Would take significantly less time.

Shallan, honey, you are not Vin. Can't just rely on instincts, take a minute to think sometimes. I did laugh when Renarin thought about how she could use some common sense, because I was thinking the same thing!

Agreed! She just pulled the classic "finding her destiny on the road to prevent it" move, and I'm frustrated that she was so dismissive of Renarin and Rlain's cautionary suggestions - she just brushed them off and said "no this is important and I'm going by instinct here, try to keep up"

Like god damn Shallan take a breath and go stop Dalinar! The fact was, she wanted the perpendicularity opened for two reasons: 

1. Bait for Mraize and Iyatil cause she is obsessed with 'besting' them and proving herself to them

2. She is so curious about why the GB's want to get BAM that she also now wants to go find BAM. She can't help it, and she was wanting to go along in there the whole time, just like Renarin called out.

4 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

How Renarin thinks Shallan thinks: Wheeeeeee look at me go!

How Shallan actually thinks: Wheeeee look at us go!

[Slayd_07]

4 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

ALSO! My thoughts from the chapter headings: This HAS to be about Tanavast stepping down and abdicating from his role as Honor. It's just got to be alluding to that. I really think that Honor steps down, and that Nohadon is who he became as a mortal. I think he is truly dead now, but I suspect he may have constructed an axon-for-axon copy of himself out of Honor's investiture, using it to replace himself as the vessel. This would likely not change Honor's tone and still make it indistinguishable from himself... but then it would also explain why Honor became more and more obsessed with Oaths over time. I think the copy lost its structure over time and became something akin to what the Sibling warns about - a shard with no vessel that has it's own sentience/awareness. I think that's why Honor kind of fell apart down the road and was so easily defeated by Odium.

At this point, I think we can pretty much say for sure that something happened between Tanavast/Honor/Nohadan. The epigraph where he talks about leaving them to their own devices so they can grow and learn independent of him? That sounds EXACTLY like some of the stuff Harmony talked about in TLM. Honestly though, I have no idea what the details could be. Nohadan referring to his readers as "dear readers" was also quite funny, that is NOT what I expected the tone of The Way of Kings to be. 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

Just now, Slayd_07 said:

Nohadan referring to his readers as "dear readers" was also quite funny, that is NOT what I expected the tone of The Way of Kings to be. 

Maybe Nohadon is a Swiftie?

[Ninth of the Night]

5 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

1. Bait for Mraize and Iyatil cause she is obsessed with 'besting' them and proving herself to them

2. She is so curious about why the GB's want to get BAM that she also now wants to go find BAM. She can't help it, and she was wanting to go along in there the whole time, just like Renarin called out.

You're so right. Even though she's making terrible decisions I can still appreciate that she's just being Shallan. She doesn't even realize yet why she's making such poor decisions, but as always it's because Mraize is leading her by the nose.

And honestly I can't truly blame her, we want all those secrets just as bad!

[Slayd_07]

My best guess for why Mraize collapsed the perpendicularity is such - If it doesn't suck everybody into it like other people in thread have suggested, Dalinar/Navani will still have to open another perpendicularity to get out - I think Mraize is hoping to escape and get a run on that perpendicularity, counting on the chaos and unpredictability of it's appearance to let him slip past the Radiants. 

 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

9 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

but then it would also explain why Honor became more and more obsessed with Oaths over time.

Isn't the simpler explanation that he was slowly dying between Aharitiem and recreance? This caused him to go mad

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

2 minutes ago, Slayd_07 said:

At this point, I think we can pretty much say for sure that something happened between Tanavast/Honor/Nohadan. The epigraph where he talks about leaving them to their own devices so they can grow and learn independent of him? That sounds EXACTLY like some of the stuff Harmony talked about in TLM. Honestly though, I have no idea what the details could be.

You are absolutely right here. It will probably turn out to be something we couldn't have predicted, but my best guess is that Tanavast stepped down, left it all behind (to the extent that he could), and became Nohadon

1 minute ago, Ninth of the Night said:

You're so right. Even though she's making terrible decisions I can still appreciate that she's just being Shallan. She doesn't even realize yet why she's making such poor decisions, but as always it's because Mraize is leading her by the nose.

And honestly I can't truly blame her, we want all those secrets just as bad!

A damn good point lol I definitely want the secrets too lol

[Slayd_07]

1 minute ago, CognitiveShadow said:

A damn good point lol I definitely want the secrets too lol

I've always said that I would fall in with the Ghostbloods IMMEDIATELY if I was on Roshar or Scadrial - really, I think most of us would. What are we here on the forums for if not to puzzle out all these little secrets ourselves?

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Isn't the simpler explanation that he was slowly dying between Aharitiem and recreance? This caused him to go mad

It's possible, but I think that's just too much like Mistborn too. There's something really really wierd going on here with Tanavast, Nohadon, Honor, Stormfather, etc. 

Plus, we have a lot of warnings about the dangers of a shard developing it's own awareness and becoming it's own vessel. I think that's foreshadowing some things we are going to see in the book. And it appears a major goal for the rest of this book is for Dalinar and Navani to see what happened to Honor and how he died. I think this theory of mine ties together all of those aspects in a really interesting and new way, and makes a lot of sense. Even explains why the power is refusing to accept new vessels as they talk about in today's chapters.

[feruchemicalrockband]

Hmm. I wonder if Mraize and Iyatil overheard Hoid mentioning that you could enter the spiritual realm through a perpendicularity? They already have their spren who can lead them out, so screwing up Shallan and Renarin's only method of entering the spiritual realm (the Bondsmiths) was actually a smart play. Unless the exploding perpendicularity pulls everyone in it's radius into it, Lift and Hoid included.

[Kfish]

17 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

ALSO! My thoughts from the chapter headings: This HAS to be about Tanavast stepping down and abdicating from his role as Honor. It's just got to be alluding to that. I really think that Honor steps down, and that Nohadon is who he became as a mortal. I think he is truly dead now, but I suspect he may have constructed an axon-for-axon copy of himself out of Honor's investiture, using it to replace himself as the vessel. This would likely not change Honor's tone and still make it indistinguishable from himself... but then it would also explain why Honor became more and more obsessed with Oaths over time. I think the copy lost its structure over time and became something akin to what the Sibling warns about - a shard with no vessel that has it's own sentience/awareness. I think that's why Honor kind of fell apart down the road and was so easily defeated by Odium.

Agreed! She just pulled the classic "finding her destiny on the road to prevent it" move, and I'm frustrated that she was so dismissive of Renarin and Rlain's cautionary suggestions - she just brushed them off and said "no this is important and I'm going by instinct here, try to keep up"

Like god damn Shallan take a breath and go stop Dalinar! The fact was, she wanted the perpendicularity opened for two reasons: 

1. Bait for Mraize and Iyatil cause she is obsessed with 'besting' them and proving herself to them

2. She is so curious about why the GB's want to get BAM that she also now wants to go find BAM. She can't help it, and she was wanting to go along in there the whole time, just like Renarin called out.

Its worth remembering that she wanted to free Ba-Ado-Misbram at the end of ROW. 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

1 minute ago, CognitiveShadow said:

It's possible, but I think that's just too much like Mistborn too. There's something really really wierd going on here with Tanavast, Nohadon, Honor, Stormfather, etc. 

Plus, we have a lot of warnings about the dangers of a shard developing it's own awareness and becoming it's own vessel. I think that's foreshadowing some things we are going to see in the book. And it appears a major goal for the rest of this book is for Dalinar and Navani to see what happened to Honor and how he died. I think this theory of mine ties together all of those aspects in a really interesting and new way, and makes a lot of sense. Even explains why the power is refusing to accept new vessels as they talk about in today's chapters.

Mechanics wise it actually makes very good sense. We have seen that spren have very rigid definitions of Honor(like Stormfather) due to their lack of connection to the physical realm. When the vessel of a shard starts dying, the shard loses a connection to the physical realm. If there is no one around to wield it , the shard of Honor will change and become more rigid.

 

Timeline wise, Honor started changing after Aharitiem, not during Nohadon times. So I don't think that works

 

[Kfish]

9 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Isn't the simpler explanation that he was slowly dying between Aharitiem and recreance? This caused him to go mad

Simpler, but Brandon doesn't always abide by Occam's Razor. Besides that every part two epitaph has focused on abdication 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Just now, Kfish said:

Simpler, but Brandon doesn't always abide by Occam's Razor. Besides that every part two epitaph has focused on abdication 

I agree there is a good chance that Tanavast abdicated. Just doesn't mesh with the timeline when you put Nohadon in the mix.

Also, Whether Dalinar can choose to give up power will be the arc this book has for him, so obviously it will get focused on here