Long Game 90: Undiluted Powers

[Mat he/him]

2 hours ago, Cinnamon said:

I don’t really have anything more than a gut read on anyone at the moment. Except Mat. this post:

and a couple other things they’ve said have rubbed me the wrong way, it just feels kinda off.  I am not gonna vote yet. But that’s where my suspicions lie for now

I'd be curious to see what 'other things' you mean, as those two things you quoted are 1.) an already explained inside joke and 2.) A full-blown joke that's completely NAI. So. Not a very compelling case. What made you reconsider turtle so quickly when TUN corrected you, but you ignored Shining's correction about me?

Additionally, the first thing is just exactly what Stick quoted, which makes me think you just grabbed that as a sheep :P.

Tbh I probably could case Cin if I wanted to but it's still a bit early to try to kill a new player :P. Reads list... tomorrow. Yeah. I'll have time tomorrow morning.

Edit: Adding VC

• Mat (2): Stick, Cinnamon
• Stick (1): Silvereye
• Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist
• Cinnamon (1): Bookwyrm

Edit 2: Adding Bookwyrm’s vote, which I was forgot

Edited October 27, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[The Bookwyrm he/him]

40 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edit: Adding VC

• Mat (2): Stick, Cinnamon
• Stick (1): Silvereye
• Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist

You forgot my vote for Cinnamon.

[The Aspiring Archivist any]

3 minutes ago, The Bookwyrm said:

You forgot my vote for Cinnamon.

I don't think you did vote for cinnamon

[The Bookwyrm he/him]

2 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said:

I don't think you did vote for cinnamon

 

8 hours ago, The Bookwyrm said:

Hm....

Based on the same flimsy evidence that I voted for Xino on, and a gut feeling that I can't really explain, I'm going to vote Cinnamon.

And, like you all saw above with my Xino vote, this may be subject to change in the future.

 

[The Aspiring Archivist any]

2 minutes ago, The Bookwyrm said:

 

 

Oh, sorry, missed that.

[---]

3 hours ago, Turtle said:

I mostly haven’t been contributing a ton bc I’m multitabling and we’re reaching the end of the quarter in school and I’m a master at procrastination. 

obligatory no one cares (politely) don't mention other games even if they're on MU because if you can't handle playing two games then don't but don't expect people to change their reads on you because you're in a different game as well

I think turtle should be a little harder to catch than their last elim game was for me, but I do think they're fine to give a pass rn. they have been a bit self focused but I'm fine for now.

9 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

I think Matrim

this was probably the worst vote you could make at this time lol, just regardless, he's one of the only people posting and so we can't afford to lose that. (this is the bare minimum)

I like the engagement from stick but the jury is still out.

Personally I would like to kill Xino today, to sort things out, probably because I haven't had a lot of time to think this cycle. I think resolving the wagons yesterday could start giving us more info to go off of, especially for coinshots. otherwise if we hit another villager who was kind of irrelevant to yesterday we're at a slightly different D1

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

8 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Reads!!:

Village: Bookwyrm, xino, Alv, Wiz, Dannex, illwei, Cinnamon

Bookwyrm: I've been going back and forth on them for a while and I decided last night that they are evil but their xino vote and subsequent unvote has completely changed my perspective.

xino: Just don't feel as though his tone at that D1 EoD was e!xino (comparing to LG89!xino's D1 EoD). Also in a game with a player size this large I would expect more support from elim teammates in terms of votes so the 4-3 D1 looks good for xino imo.

Alv: Just don't see Alv killing Kas N1 (this read is tentative)

Wiz: I like their bookwyrm vote/unvote and the rationale behind it

Dannex: Dannex's D1 doesn't stand out to me in any particular way but their posts from last turn (re: effort clearing Kas) seem genuine and villagery. I'm not sure whether e!Dannex would want to put themself out there like that.

illwei: What she said about this game and the game before being an experiment of sorts - I remember her noting in the elim doc last game that people V-read her even though she hadn't said much cuz usually all it takes to attract E-reads is for her to speak so I see what she means. This should technically be NAI but I'm inclined to lean village here and also her stance on xino looks village to me.

Cinnamon: It's really just this post. I realise that teammates instructing newer players in the elim doc is a thing but I'm willing to take this at face value.

Mild Village (borderline null+ actually): JNV, Devo

JNV: I can actually never really tell with JNV but my gut says they're alright for now 

Devo: I think that vote retract at D1 EoD was uncharacteristic of e!Devo (especially if xino is village too).

Mild Elim: Archivist, Silvereye, Mat, Shining, Conq

Archivist: Their posts just seem not-village-like to me. They didn't vote C1 (which I would expect from elims if v!xino), and I've already brought up this post but the fact that they never followed up on the question is odd. And this post feels like a classic elim one-liner flip reaction post. 

Silvereye: Been side-eyeing them for a while now but the vibes still ain't there. I can see them teamed with Mat because they unvoted Mat once Dannex also voted Mat and at this stage having two votes meant likely death.

Mat: Mat's posts overall this game seem a little...stiff? I don't have a better term to describe it but yes. Apart from that, I think at a couple of stages thus far he's implied knowledge of people's alignments - I might definitely be reaching, but in this post in response to Kas, he says:

I think this statement seems more likely to come from a player talking to someone they know is village. Would v!Mat say this to Kas? v!Mat doesn't know Kas' alignment and should want to know Kas' reasons for voting a player, no? Would e!Mat, knowing Kas' alignment, say this? Maybe? I think so?

I see the same thing in our PM where I feel a distinct lack of paranoia/suspicion directed towards myself - At the start of D1 I said I suspected Silvereye cuz of their reactionary vote and Mat pointed out that other players had done that too. Instead of singling this out as a reason to squint at me and my motivations and question why I hadn't considered the other players who had the same reactionary votes as equally suspicious, he seemed to accept my partly laid out reasons fairly quickly despite not sharing the view. I probably should not be hyper-focusing on this but I expect v!Mat to be more paranoid and more on-the-lookout for potential red flags.

Shining: Their entire demeanour here seems less stressed than their previous village games so I wonder if its because this is e!Shining and they're relaxed cuz there's no solving to be done?  Null- actually. If e!xino then v!Shining.

Conq: This one's more of a null- as well for me but I think Conq just seems different to his previous games here. The fact that he's been less active is probably a factor, but I think he mentioned being busy irl so...yeah.

7 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Oh yeah anybody I didn't mention, I just do not have a read on at the moment so off the top of my head that includes you, shadow, Wiz, TUN,

I'm confused about this discrepancy, this and your lack of explanation for really any of your votes, except Mat, and I agree with you on that point, Mat does seem to know more than he should. But for now Stick, but I am open to the option of Mat. I'm really tired and I need to finish some homework and reread threads, before I finalize anything, but Stick is where I'm leaning, more than Mat, but this is subject to change.

7 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Personally I would like to kill Xino today, to sort things out, probably because I haven't had a lot of time to think this cycle. I think resolving the wagons yesterday could start giving us more info to go off of, especially for coinshots. otherwise if we hit another villager who was kind of irrelevant to yesterday we're at a slightly different D1

While that can be helpful I am against lynching Xino as I read them village and I'm fine if your going to push him, but I am not going to join you.

[Alvron he/him]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:03 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

I'm also curious where @Alvron thoughts lie.

Like most people, my thoughts lie in my head.  

However, if you wish to know what I think of D1, I'll tell you.  Firstly after collecting all the votes and checking who voted and who didn't, I doubt Xino is elim. I didn't see any abnormal voting that seemed like it was trying to get votes off Xino or onto Ash.  There was the normal who do  we vote for scramble but that's about it.  There is also the lack of vote manipulations.  While not indicative nor is there any guarantee that the elim have vote manipulation abilities, I would've expected at least one vote moved during the cycle.  The fact that there wasn't seems to indicate that the elims either didn't care which of the two were killed or they weren't active enough during rollover.  I suspect the former as there always seems to be active elims near end of cycle at the start of a game.

As for who I suspect most at this time, that would be Devotary.  Kas, Wizard, Devotary and Silvereye all voted during the cycle but had no active votes at the end.  I don't know Silvereye nor Wizards playstyle and Kas is dead so that leaves Devotary.  In past games they tend to be reluctant to have a vote on the one being killed when playing as an elim so that stuck out to be a bit and is basically all I have at this moment.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

Not really liking Stick, I don't remember her ever giving a reason for her naked votes, other than saying voting me was purely for ties, which seems like an elim trying to jump on a bandwagon for some reason. If Stick has given reasoning, could someone please quote it?

16 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Like most people, my thoughts lie in my head.  

However, if you wish to know what I think of D1, I'll tell you.  Firstly after collecting all the votes and checking who voted and who didn't, I doubt Xino is elim. I didn't see any abnormal voting that seemed like it was trying to get votes off Xino or onto Ash.  There was the normal who do  we vote for scramble but that's about it.  There is also the lack of vote manipulations.  While not indicative nor is there any guarantee that the elim have vote manipulation abilities, I would've expected at least one vote moved during the cycle.  The fact that there wasn't seems to indicate that the elims either didn't care which of the two were killed or they weren't active enough during rollover.  I suspect the former as there always seems to be active elims near end of cycle at the start of a game.

As for who I suspect most at this time, that would be Devotary.  Kas, Wizard, Devotary and Silvereye all voted during the cycle but had no active votes at the end.  I don't know Silvereye nor Wizards playstyle and Kas is dead so that leaves Devotary.  In past games they tend to be reluctant to have a vote on the one being killed when playing as an elim so that stuck out to be a bit and is basically all I have at this moment.

How do you do that? I keep losing mine and finding them like scrambled eggs in the frying pan.

There isn't any vote manip this game. That's the only deviation from a standard Tyrian in fact.

I'm not really sure about the vote unvote logic, but if that's true about Devo’s elim play then that is decently e!indicative. 

[Alvron he/him]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Novel said:

There isn't any vote manip this game. That's the only deviation from a standard Tyrian in fact.

Well, chulldung.  Guess that is what I get for only making sure about my role.  I've been away from SE too long if I'm making that kind of mistake.  

[Mat he/him]

37 minutes ago, Alvron said:

As for who I suspect most at this time, that would be Devotary.  Kas, Wizard, Devotary and Silvereye all voted during the cycle but had no active votes at the end.  I don't know Silvereye nor Wizards playstyle and Kas is dead so that leaves Devotary.  In past games they tend to be reluctant to have a vote on the one being killed when playing as an elim so that stuck out to be a bit and is basically all I have at this moment.

Did you see Kas’ v!Devo casing, near the ending of N1? If not, he basically took a deep look at the exact voting timestamps between Shining and Devo specifically and argued that the consistency Devo had in her reads while making vote changes in a highly charged EoD points more towards v!Devo, and I’m inclined to agree with that read— maybe because I helped him figure out the timestamps in our PM, but I think it’s a decent enough read for right now.

16 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Well, chulldung.  Guess that is what I get for only making sure about my role.  I've been away from SE too long if I'm making that kind of mistake.  

Ngl I kinda want to clear Alv for this >>

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

I feel like e!Shining would have killed Kas but I'm also starting to think his immediate edit to Xino makes sense as elim. Bookwyrm is doing things that I read as generally suspicious (openly regretting a villager's death, noting that his vote could change in the future, voting for Ash over Xino because Ash voted for him). Can't be sure without anything to compare it though. His most likely teammate would be Xino (voted Ash over Xino, voted Xino today only while saying that vote was liable to change). I'm not feeling especially elim for Xino otherwise though. Still I can start Bookwyrm.

52 minutes ago, Alvron said:

In past games she tends to be reluctant to have a vote on the one being killed when playing as an elim so that stuck out to be a bit and is basically all I have at this moment.

I'm perfectly willing to vote for the person killed regardless of alignment. That would have still been true if I hadn't been alarmed by Shining's vote.

[Cinnamon]

after some deliberation:

Mat

I went through, and found and evidence against them, flimsy at best, laughable at worst. Also re reading his posts now they don't seem elim, just like someone trying to stay alive and also I did not realise that the post I quoted earlier was a joke .

I still stand by my stance on Wiz though.

[JNV]

Ni sucuyi gar kyradyc ni partayli gar darasuum Kasimir you were the best PM buddy I had thanks for being there hope youre having a good time in the afterlife maybe one day youll have a chill RPful game you survive

Hi sorry for not getting on yesterday something came up also warning from future JNV I wrote this post in two chunks like five hours apart so some posts came through in that time and made some of my points wonky so if you see something like that its probably teh time gap sorry

So Ill be hoenst everyone is just a blob of confussion Im having a hard time reading beyond instinctual suspicions sorta thing and those are worse than useless so Im just going through by player seeing anything interesting if I dont include a post either it had nothign or I just missed it

Matrim

So D1 I feel like theyve been talking a lot but not saying much and that feels weird like theyve been very quippy and the first real substance thing they say is they like Silhoeuttes effort but also arent ruling out the elim possibility of it thats a bit noncommital and like their reads list I mean I appreciate the reads list but almost all of theri definite reads are in the context of xinoehp with the exception of the person they voted on silvereye and like very little justification and very wobbly for any non ixnoehp connection like their bookwyrm read is they seem friendly but could have been coached like that entire post reads as set dressing for the xinoehp vote like the variants just feel a bit out of charater and its just... everything they had in that post is about xinoehp except fro the fringes like this doesnt feel like Matrim actually trying to read people this feels like Matrim justifying a xinoehp vote and I know you said you didnt have time to switch and you lampshade this at the end by saying theres no time to determine the veracity of the xinoehp characterization but like Kasimirs whole thing debunking the xinoehp case was half an hour befroe rollover you were interacting with them and presumably reading their posts you had time to evaluate that argument and see if you agreed so its not like theres no time to debunk its not like theres no way for you to get the information you want the information is there and waiting and gah even at the night you say youre not sure about the mischaracterization point well why not look into it you had the time you had the ability you had all the work done for you already by Kasimir like everything you needed was there for you and even now youre like 'stance on xinoehp' and like Im probably biased at this point but I dont see why you need to ask everyone that just lets people who care about xinoehps life hide in the masses you could just make your case and go with that plus you have this reversal on Conquestor where in your D1 reads list you were saying you liked the xinoehp vote and the friendliness and stuff and now yourel ike 'Ill suspect you for being quiet last turn' they werent really that active in the first place they had one post day 1 like I dont even know and Ive spent like ten minutes typing up this big long paragraph that people probably arent going to read in the fifrst place gah 

Wizard

Ok like I think they genuinely confuse me cause my radar parctically always goes off for them but I dont know if thats in response to them or in response to their voting style plus theres this huge tonal shift between the first cycle and this turn but its a good shift I think a good change so setting aside for now

Conqeustor

Hasnt said much talked like twice and Im not really getting an impression either way their vote on xinohep feels more jokey than anything and beyond that they dont seem to be having many opinions

Novel

Has talked a lot but not said much of anything at all and they always feel scummy to me which is normal but also I am never opposed to their death 

Illwei 

Honestly you feel very different but I dont really know what that difference means like youve talked a lot more but you havent said much if you take out all the contradictory things but Im feeling ok about you maybe not about your opinions but just about you 

Silhoette

Ive had some confusion tonally cause like I think the sort of person they are will always hit my radar youre just too nice I guess but play wise I dont see an evil person doing what they did at D1 end of turn like if you are evil I really want to know what you were thinking there but that sort of panic combined with the weird vote thing that happened doesnt feel fake  so I guess this is my highest trust which feels really weird 

Cinnamon

Theyve talked but they havent really said anything at all but I really dont like their reasoning for voting Matrim and oop update from future JNV they did retract which makes me feel something not sure exactly what but something

shadow

I dont like that vote but thats morep hilosophical than anything Ill accept life reasons for now but I kinda expect more from them maybe my expectations are too high but they just havent been around

Archivist

Just sorta feels new kind of coming out of their shell now but well see how they progress

Silvereye

Hasnt really existed just sorta there dont really know about them

Danex

Honestly it never really matters what they say cause Im just going to confirmation bias my way into suspecting them every time but surprisingly I dont really want them dead yet like they ahvent said anything I really disagree with they havent been too tonally weird just a little weird but not that weird and like I dont trust them at all but I would be willing to keep them around which is weird  hohnestly

xinoehp

Ok I know xinoehps been kinda the focal point of this but of the things theyve actually said theres really not much tehres some facetious comments theres some suspicion of Illwei which is kind of expected given you know the whole case against them sorta thing but they feel fine 

Deovtary

Honestly I dont see evil Devotary voting and unvoting Ashbringer last second to maintain the tie and if thats part of the evil plot then oh well my bad plus I can never really read them tehy just feel the same

Bookwyrm

Everything about their tone hits weird their Kasimir vote hit weird their Ashbringer vote hit weird like every step of the way it feels like they go against the grain and culture shock can only excuse so much you knwo but then again not sure how much evil would care about the xinoehp Ashbringer vote so Im putting them on the shelf for later inspection but like flagged or something cause its mostly tone right but its also just kind of how their opinoins and their actions dont really line up

Turtle

Not much to go offo f really I mean tonally I feel a bit iffy on them and their reads list is just a bit simplistc with little to no justifications attached 

Stick

I mean I like what theyve been saying I dont like the blank votes theyve been doing Im too tired to figure them out Ill do more rigorous analysis tomorrow generally positive vibes though

Alvron

Kind of mixed bag cause like they didnt really do much D1 and their Devotary conclusion feels weird but I do like their xinoehp conclusion so just sorta marked for later

I think you can tell by the paragraph length but Matrim I just feel like the immediate focus on xinoehp and how its stuck around doesnt feel organic but if someone wants to talk me around to Bookwyrm before the turn ends I mean you can try but Ill be at school so good luck good night Im going to sleep its late Im tired you can ask questions if you want but dont expect me to asnwer before the turn ends bye bye

[xinoehp512 he/him]

• Mat (2): Stick, Matrim
• Stick (2): Silvereye, Wizard
• Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist
• Cinnamon (1): Bookwyrm
• Xino (1): Illwei
• Devotary (1): Alvron
• Bookwyrm (1): Devotary
• Shadow (1): Xino

I've been getting kind of a strange vibe from Matrim personally, but I don't have anything solid. Moreso, would Matrim have killed Kas? I feel like the choice of Kas as a kill choice points heavily to a newer player/less active player/hasn't been elim recently player calling the shots.

With that, Shadow. One could make the argument that their self-admitted meta-matching makes no sense as an elim. I feel like there is a decent possibility that it's a gambit, however, in an attempt to confuse people away from thinking about the implications of the NK.

...Now that I say that out loud it sounds a lot less convincing. Oh well, Shadow matches my profile of a lurker elim, and I don't have time for anything else tonight. We'll see how I feel about things tomorrow.

[Stick. she/her]

3 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I'm confused about this discrepancy, this and your lack of explanation for really any of your votes, except Mat, and I agree with you on that point, Mat does seem to know more than he should. But for now Stick, but I am open to the option of Mat. I'm really tired and I need to finish some homework and reread threads, before I finalize anything, but Stick is where I'm leaning, more than Mat, but this is subject to change.

While that can be helpful I am against lynching Xino as I read them village and I'm fine if your going to push him, but I am not going to join you.

Okay genuine mistake, v!Stick could have made it and e!Stick could have made it. I think this should be NAI  

Lack of explanation regarding votes? How many people actually gave reasonable justifications for their votes D1? (Barring EoD, since I wasn't on for that anyway). Alv was clearly a joke vote, my reason to vote TUN was to create a tie like I said and my reason behind voting Silvereye has also been explained already. How is this worse than people voting as poke votes?

2 hours ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Not really liking Stick, I don't remember her ever giving a reason for her naked votes, other than saying voting me was purely for ties, which seems like an elim trying to jump on a bandwagon for some reason. If Stick has given reasoning, could someone please quote it?

Honestly you've been saying this but you're skirting around actually voting for me so I'm confused as to why that hasn't been done yet.

edit:

8 hours ago, The Aspiring Archivist said:

I think I'm just going to give my perspective on Mat, Turtle, and Stick because they're the only ones with votes right now and I don't trust myself enough to bring up suspicion on a completely different person.

There's plenty of time! I think that if you've got any reason to suspect someone even if it's a small reason you should bring it up and also vote on them. This is how the village gets its info.

Edited October 27, 2022 by _Stick_

[The Unknown Order he/him]

59 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Honestly you've been saying this but you're skirting around actually voting for me so I'm confused as to why that hasn't been done yet.

Ok, fine, Stick. Will you answer my questions now? 

An explanation, a quote to an explanation, just something. I didn't vote you before because I was expecting an explanation that would hopefully explain why you voted like you did. Which you didn't as far as I can tell.

[Stick. she/her]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Ok, fine, Stick. Will you answer my questions now? 

An explanation, a quote to an explanation, just something. I didn't vote you before because I was expecting an explanation that would hopefully explain why you voted like you did. Which you didn't as far as I can tell.

I answered your question 1.5 hours after you asked it here - this post includes my reason for voting Mat:

Reason for voting silvereye last cycle:

 

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

6 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Okay genuine mistake, v!Stick could have made it and e!Stick could have made it. I think this should be NAI  

I had guessed

6 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Lack of explanation regarding votes? How many people actually gave reasonable justifications for their votes D1? (Barring EoD, since I wasn't on for that anyway). Alv was clearly a joke vote, my reason to vote TUN was to create a tie like I said and my reason behind voting Silvereye has also been explained already. How is this worse than people voting as poke votes?

Not really any reasonable justification, but they gave at least something, rather than a naked vote. It's worse, because with an explanation people can at least start to see your thought process and that helps us solve, but with nothing, there's nothing to analyze or compare it to.

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

10 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Did you see Kas’ v!Devo casing, near the ending of N1? If not, he basically took a deep look at the exact voting timestamps between Shining and Devo specifically and argued that the consistency Devo had in her reads while making vote changes in a highly charged EoD points more towards v!Devo, and I’m inclined to agree with that read— maybe because I helped him figure out the timestamps in our PM, but I think it’s a decent enough read for right now.

I can confirm this, Kas came to me before he posted the timestamps and asked me to give my thoughts- he mentioned he'd been working with Mat to figure it out.

8 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I've been getting kind of a strange vibe from Matrim personally, but I don't have anything solid. Moreso, would Matrim have killed Kas?

This is what it keeps coming down to for me. If E!Mat, I don't see a Kas kill. Especially since they were deep in discussion N1. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Shining Silhouette
grammar

[Turtle]

10 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

• Mat (2): Stick, Matrim
• Stick (2): Silvereye, Wizard
• Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist
• Cinnamon (1): Bookwyrm
• Xino (1): Illwei
• Devotary (1): Alvron
• Bookwyrm (1): Devotary
• Shadow (1): Xino

I've been getting kind of a strange vibe from Matrim personally, but I don't have anything solid. Moreso, would Matrim have killed Kas? I feel like the choice of Kas as a kill choice points heavily to a newer player/less active player/hasn't been elim recently player calling the shots.

With that, Shadow. One could make the argument that their self-admitted meta-matching makes no sense as an elim. I feel like there is a decent possibility that it's a gambit, however, in an attempt to confuse people away from thinking about the implications of the NK.

...Now that I say that out loud it sounds a lot less convincing. Oh well, Shadow matches my profile of a lurker elim, and I don't have time for anything else tonight. We'll see how I feel about things tomorrow.

um did you mean JNV instead of the ‘Matrim’? 
 

current village reads are: 

JNV: strongest village read rn because what I saw from them last game was a bunch of wall posts and reads that seem a bit forced but this game most of their posts seem like they’re coming naturally now- this also seems to match up with MR60 D1

ugh I was gonna write more but my lunch break is over see y’all when I have free time

 

[Mat he/him]

Here's my reads list, up to date. Sorry I accidentally posted this before I'd actually started :P. 

---

• Wiz: Idk, is it cowardly for me to just want to sheep everyone seeming to village read Wiz? I don't want to though. I don't think his cases have felt real to me and they've been eh at best, but the effort is there so I suppose that's something. E lean but the kind that feels like a self aware tunnel and I don't really like it.
   
• Conq: I thought his posting was fine, there's just so much less of it. That could be alignment indicative, but I also feel like activity influenced by alignment is different than activity influenced by IRL, and this feels more like the latter to me in that I think hesitant e!Conq would be posting more than none at all. For me that balances to Null but I do hope he comes back.
   
• TUN: Similar to Wiz in that I'm kind of surprised by the amount of village reads TUN is receiving, but his posting today has convinced me more. I like his recent interaction with Stick and he generally reads more sincere to me today. Sliiight v lean.
   
• Illwei: I'm just so confused about Illwei's progression, like the only player she's even talked about is xino and it's been [v read -> e casing -> walkback of casing and xino defense -> voting xino today] and that's so bizarre to me it's hard for me not to read that as elim even though I feel like I shouldn't for some reason. Null- I guess. Idk.
   
• Shining: With the addition of feeling sort of unnerved by his defense of me (thanks though :P) my read here is the same as yesterday: A paranoid village read. More PMing and time has leaned me more in that direction and part of me wants to just let go of the paranoia entirely but that'd be... irresponsible :P.
   
• Cinnamon: A few things have pinged me about Cinnamon, mainly to do with their voting. C1 had a plain retaliation vote on Ash that just stuck, and then today his progression regarding me and turtle doesn't fit together. Example: Cin expressed equal suspicion of me and turtle, and then Shining provided a defense of me and TUN provided a defense of turtle. Cin ignored Shining, but thanked TUN and voted me. They unvoted once I pointed it out, but that stinks of an agenda to me. Lean elim. I acknowledge there's an argument of newness but I feel like that can only be taken too far, and for me the thing Stick is basing her village read on isn't all that clearing.
   
• JNV: As much as I think it's weird they wrote an essay about me and barely anything about anyone else, the post itself I like in its effort. I'd argue their conclusions are factually wrong and they misinterpreted the list entirely, but I don't think that's what I should use my time on, if anyone wants that for some reason shoot me and @ and I'll oblige but for now I'll just leave it at that and a Null+.
  No actually wait. It is odd to me that JNV wrote that much about me and then just skimmed over the others. Like that reads like JNV went into the post intending to case me and once they did just quickly did the rest. I'd appreciate other thoughts about this since I feel that I, as the subject of their post, am a bad person to dissect that. 
  Demoted to Null though :P.
   
• shadow: I had it somewhere in the back of my mind that I leaned elim on shadow but then I went and reread her posts and I don't really. Like, I can see xino's arguments, but I think in the end I'd agree with her post directly below this one. Overall her vibes are good and the level of disengaged doesn't seem intentional. Lean village.
   
• Archivist: I liked that they started to try to contribute more, but the more that post becomes an oddity instead of a change the more it looks like they were coached to have made it. Null for now, could go either way. Opting to focus on the leading trains only feels like a village-minded decision for a new player, though.
   
• Silvereye: Have they posted today? Once, okay. Yesterday Silvereye had a retaliation vote and a walkback, and I'm of Stick's mind that it doesn't look great... then today voting Stick for voting without reason reads like an unspoken retaliation with a touch of hypocrisy. Hmm. Slight elim, I think.
   
• Dannnnnnex: Dannex saying a big post was coming and then never supplying it could be read either way. I think in the realm of "elim leans apparently I am the only one who has" Dannex falls in between TUN and Wiz for me, and I'd lean more village than elim since I can see the village casings some people have put out for him so I guess Null+ but if he was a train today I wouldn't be mad.
   
• xino: The low temperature of yesterday and the kind of deadpan honestly behind xino's explanation posts have me leaning village and I'd rather not go the infokill route since like that never has actually supplied the desired info. Try to find one time it worked as planned, I'll wait :P.
   
• Devo: She seems to still be holding onto Shining/xino as elimmier reads which I suppose I can't fault her for. As I and Kas have mentioned I think her EoD posts reflect a mindset found more often in a villager and that's good enough for a village lean but I am painfully aware of how talented e!Devo is so there's that :P.
   
• Bookwyrm: It's interesting because I look at Devo and JNV's arguments for e!Bookwyrm and I'm like, yes? But also those are... kind of the reasons I v!read them. JNV's culture shock argument instead reads to me like Bookwyrm is villagery disengaged and I think an elim new player would be afraid to go against the grain, and Devo's points can apply to ignorant newness as much as they can for an elim. The fact that I'd cite the same things to village read them as are cited to elim read them makes this a perspective deviation which I think happens more often when the person in question is a villager. Village lean. I don't think this is the same as where I said you can only take newness so far in regards to Cin, it doesn't seem to me like Bookwyrm is overdoing anything whereas Cin was demonstrateably inconsistent.
   
• Turtle: I want turtle to be village like I appreciate her efforts but also it's true they've been kinda self turned and minimalistic. Idk maybe I'm expecting too much but I feel like as much as this makes sense to be v!turtle it makes sense to be e!turtle. Not null, just... both? :P.
   
• Stick: I'm slightly miffed she accused me half on the grounds of not being paranoid because I was pretty relieved to find myself not, but I think that sentence more than anything from her made me want to start to get paranoid. Is that normal? I don't know if that's normal. But no, I still like her bouncy votes and what they did to help the D1 thread and she seems to be sincerely trying to solve me in PMs and I hope she gets there  I feel like anyone trying to push her for her D1 votes gets a minus one village point from me but I don't remember who that is lol. Villagery.
   
• Alv: Yeah I don't even feel bad about derp clearing Alv for not knowing there wasn't vote manip since I feel like that's something the elim doc would have gone over unless there's no elim soother or rioter. And even then. I think an existence of an elim soother/rioter clears Alv even further but there's no way to know about that right now. Village lean.

---

Variant Two:

Wouldn't Mind If They Died (Not Necessarily Who I'd Vote Though):

• Wiz, Conq, TUN, Illwei, Cin, JNV, Archivist, Silvereye, Dannex, Turtle

Would Mind If They Died (AKA Definitely Won't Vote):

• Shining, shadow, xino, Devo, Bookwyrm, Stick, Alv

---

Variant Three, AKA Typical Tier List:

Stick/Shining/Alv/xino
Bookwyrm/Devo
shadow
TUN/Conq
JNV/Archivist/Dannex
Turtle/Illwei/Wiz
Silvereye/Cin

---

Ah hmm I don't like that my bottom tier is two new players. Whatever, I'll probably end up voting in self pres anyway >>

Vote in my next post.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[shadow1 she/her]

11 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

• Mat (2): Stick, Matrim
• Stick (2): Silvereye, Wizard
• Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist
• Cinnamon (1): Bookwyrm
• Xino (1): Illwei
• Devotary (1): Alvron
• Bookwyrm (1): Devotary
• Shadow (1): Xino

I've been getting kind of a strange vibe from Matrim personally, but I don't have anything solid. Moreso, would Matrim have killed Kas? I feel like the choice of Kas as a kill choice points heavily to a newer player/less active player/hasn't been elim recently player calling the shots.

With that, Shadow. One could make the argument that their self-admitted meta-matching makes no sense as an elim. I feel like there is a decent possibility that it's a gambit, however, in an attempt to confuse people away from thinking about the implications of the NK.

...Now that I say that out loud it sounds a lot less convincing. Oh well, Shadow matches my profile of a lurker elim, and I don't have time for anything else tonight. We'll see how I feel about things tomorrow.

Not entirely sure how me being honest and upfront about my own generally favored nightkill rationale would be an attempt to confuse people away from thinking about the NK. I was really just inquiring because I didn't know about the site meta.

Also, me lurking is just RL. I've played a previous game here I was elim and you could compare to that, I wasn't lurkery there, so idk if that's really a useful tell against me.

[Mat he/him]

It is done

Cinnamon. I'd rather not have to self pres on Stick, please don't make me do that :P.

Edit: And here's a VC which is hopefully accurate:

• Mat (2): Stick, JNV
• Stick (3): Silvereye, Wiz, TUN
• Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist
• Cinnamon (2): Bookwyrm, Mat
• Xino (1): Illwei
• Devotary (1): Alvron
• Bookwyrm (1): Devotary
• shadow (1): Xino

Edited October 27, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[---]

Devo/turtle/jnv village, turtle tentative but i agree strongly with the jnv read and its been something I've been thinking about for a bit. 

Mat I'd like you to think about how many people are in this game, and previous elim games from me. Maybe it's just me but my progression is NAI at worst. It's obviously unordered and chaotic, and that's what makes it blatant that real thoughts are happening imo. If I was an elim a believable easy progression would be easy to fake but I'm not trying to fake a read on anyone, I'm just saying what's on my mind.

I wanted to townread xino the first time because of how relaxed and easy his first few posts felt and then it went from there.