Mid-Range Game 42: The Auction of Lord Winsting

[Kynedath]

17 minutes ago, Emi said:

Ok, sorry for asking that many dumb questions, but what are we suppose to do now?

 

11 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

As another new player, I'm kinda wondering the same thing.

Right now we are reading through what people say and looking for anything we think is suspicious. By suspicious I mean something that we think the eliminator team would do. If we think they are suspicious then we vote on them in red. The person with the most votes is lynched, AKA killed, at the end of this cycle. Like Matrims Dice said, it's unlikely that we will hit an eliminator the first round, but lynching day 1 is a big way to gather information.

I personally don't vote cycle one, I morally don't want to be involved with someone getting lynched the very first day, it's happened to me and it sucks. That being said, a lot of players believe that if you signed up for this game then you're agreeing that you might be killed early on so they vote day 1 to get information as early as possible. It is important to get that info. So what a lot of people will do is put poke votes on people who haven't posted, pressuring them to be more active. However in this game that might be a little bit less likely since you can't just cancel your vote, you have to put it on someone else once you've voted. That'll be interesting to see play out in the first couple cycles.

To the new players, I hope that helped.

Also, lately I've been sitting back during the beginning portion of the game, saying that I am more useful late game, but this game I am going to try to be more active and contribute more during the early game, so I'm letting you guys know right now to try t hold myself a bit more accountable to that.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Kynedath

[Emi]

2 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

To the new players, I hope that helped.

Yes, thank you

[Elkanah]

15 minutes ago, Karnage said:

I'm not sure how to take this but if this was a Legit vote to disperse which it probably is not because it looks like it was retracted this might be a sign for future constables. 

14 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

I wasn't sure either. the vote was retracted with the green, but I thought that lynch/disperse votes were red. So it wasn't a legit vote, but retracted legitimately?

haha, it was meant as a joke since we definitely aren't ready to disperse (unless that's what I want you to think ).

15 minutes ago, Emi said:

Ok, sorry for asking that many dumb questions, but what are we suppose to do now?

9 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

As another new player, I'm kinda wondering the same thing.

Nah, this is a pretty solid question. I typically spend day one making tasteless jokes (for example, see above ) and voting on people who haven't shown up yet. It's also the day with by far the most role play if that's the kind of thing you enjoy. It's also fun to annoy people with secret codes that start out crackable and build to stupidly complex. Day one is the 'just for fun day.' Then at the end we lynch the person who looked at you cross-eyed and wait to see who dies. Cycle three is really the start of the actual game where analysis can kick in. That's just my two cents, though.

I just had two people ninja me, so this is all redundant now, but I'll post it anyway.

[Mat]

@xinoehp512, I received a notification that "Emi, xinoehp512, and Kyendath posted on MR42: One AM" did you delete your post, or is this a mistake?

[Straw]

14 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

As another new player, I'm kinda wondering the same thing.

I think the first cycles is mainly about figuring out either 'gut-reads' on alignments or waiting until someone makes a mistake. The Village (hello) needs to find the constables to lynch them and that probably won't happen the first cycle just based on probability, as Straw said there are most likely about 8/30 elims and if everyone just lynches randomly the first cycle- since there is hardly enough evidence to make a sure vote- a villager will probably end up being lynched this cycle, unfortunately. 

Also worth keeping in mind is that the elims have their own doc, right? So they all vote for a villager to get them out. So whoever starts a bandwagon on a seemingly random person is probably worth keeping track of.

Statistically, you're probably right about a villager being lynched, but it's not a good mindset to have. We should always be trying our hardest, even if it's early on and there isn't much to vote off of. A D1 vote gives us a strong basis for future discussion.

Yes, I just checked the rules and they say the elims do have a doc. I doubt they'd all vote on one villager together. You have to remember that the constables want to blend in, so they're not going to do obviously suspicious stuff like that. elim teams will also spread out, so that if one vote train looks suspicious, they're not all implicated.

4 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

Right now we are reading through what people say and looking for anything we think is suspicious. By suspicious I mean something that we think the eliminator team would do. If we think they are suspicious then we vote on them in red. The person with the most votes is lynched, AKA killed, at the end of this cycle. Like Matrims Dice said, it's unlikely that we will hit an eliminator the first round, but lynching day 1 is a big way to gather information.

I personally don't vote cycle one, I morally don't want to be involved with someone getting lynched the very first day, it's happened to me and it sucks. That being said, a lot of players believe that if you signed up for this game then you're agreeing that you might be killed early on so they vote day 1 to get information as early as possible. It is important to get that info. So what a lot of people will do is put poke votes on people who haven't posted, pressuring them to be more active. However in this game that might be a little bit less likely since you can't just cancel your vote, you have to put it on someone else once you've voted. That'll be interesting to see play out in the first couple cycles.

To the new players, I hope that helped.

Also, lately I've been sitting back during the beginning portion of the game, saying that I am more useful late game, but this game I am going to try to be more active and contribute more during the early game, so I'm letting you guys know right now to try t hold myself a bit more accountable to that.

On D1 lynches, I strongly believe that there should be a D1 lynch. I missed the bit about no unvoting, that's interesting. I can't seem to find it in the rules though?

[Elkanah]

15 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

However in this game that might be a little bit less likely since you can't just cancel your vote, you have to put it on someone else once you've voted. That'll be interesting to see play out in the first couple cycles.

I'm just going to say, I absolutely love this mechanic and will probably incorporate it in future games I run.

15 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

Also, lately I've been sitting back during the beginning portion of the game, saying that I am more useful late game, but this game I am going to try to be more active and contribute more during the early game, so I'm letting you guys know right now to try t hold myself a bit more accountable to that.

I'm very down for this. I super believe in you! 

10 minutes ago, Straw said:

On D1 lynches, I strongly believe that there should be a D1 lynch. I missed the bit about no unvoting, that's interesting. I can't seem to find it in the rules though?

I agree. The rule is in the second paragraph in the housekeeping spoiler of the OP.

Edit: actually the third paragraph.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Elkanah

[Mat]

@Straw here is a quote from the rules: (Ninja'd by Elkanah but regardless)

Quote

Votes cannot be retracted unless they are replaced with a new vote.

Also I'm kind of laughing at myself for saying I would be low-profile the first few cycles. I should have known my own personality enough to know that wouldn't happen.

[xinoehp512]

Hello everyone! Hopefully I can manage to not die this time.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

The game ends if Lord Winsting dies, or if the party disperses. If Winsting dies, then Bleeder wins, and everyone else loses.  The party can only be dispersed by a majority vote (3/5ths, rounding up, of living, awake players.) If 1 or more Constable are alive when the party disperses, the Constables all win, and everyone else loses. If there are no Constables alive when the party disperses, the Criminals win, and everyone else loses. If Bleeder and all Constables are dead, the Criminals win the next hour. 

Typical factions, but an interesting interaction of wincons. Constables can win by outnumbering or mostly outnumbering the village, but a lone constable might still bring home the victory if they can convince everyone they don't exist. Made more plausible by the fact that once Flogs dies, any of the factions might give the game to Bleeder by killing Winsting by mistake, so dispersal could become a legitimate option for the village at some point in the game.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Faction specific Roles:

Flogs: Flogs is the best bodyguard a man could ask for, and completely loyal to Lord Winsting.

Each cycle, Flogs can target a person, and figure out if they are a Constable or not. If he scans Bleeder, he is told she is not a Constable. This role cannot be lynched.

A scan role. Useful for catching elims, but less so for verifying villagers. More interesting is its interaction with the next role, which means that this role should avoid revealing the results of their scans overtly to anyone.

Interestingly enough, Flogs might actually be safer sharing their identity with a scanned constable instead of a scanned villager, as the constables have a vested interest in keeping him alive. Not that they should do this, of course, but its interesting to think about.  

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Winsting: Lord Winsting is the brother of Elendel’s Governor, and also quite corrupt. He is also very good at acting and manipulation. As such, there is no way to find him until Flogs dies. 

This role is not assigned at the start of the game. It is assigned to a random villager once Flogs dies. This role may use any non-faction specific role's action. If there are no other Villagers alive when Flogs dies, the Constables win.

No special powers. If you get this role, you should avoid dying at all costs.  Since each faction has a kill, and Winsting is unlikely to be able to reveal himself, there's actually a decent probability he gets killed by someone other then Bleeder by mistake.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Bleeder: Bleeder is the ultimate Anti-theist. She wants everyone in the room to die, but understands that this goal is impossible unless Winsting is dead. 

Each cycle she can target someone and learn their Alignment and Role. If she does not do that, she can instead kill a player. If she attacks Winsting, her Kill cannot be blocked by a bodyguard. Kill actions taken against her fail as if she was protected by a bodyguard.

In order for Bleeder to win, she needs to kill both Flogs and Winsting. Because of this, it's in her best interests to keep at least one constable alive for as long as possible, in order to increase the number of kills flying around. However, she also wants to make sure that the elims' numbers are kept in check, so the party doesn't disperse before she's finished. That's presumably where her scan comes in handy.

Since kill actions against Bleeder fail, she can only die by being lynched. Since the Constables very much want her dead, they will presumbably encourage her lynch. Interesting...

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

5th Octant Constable: You have a secondary objective here tonight. In addition to any other skills you have, you will learn the identity and alignment of whomever kills Dowser. Any action you take that targets Dowser will become a kill action. You lose if the game ends with Dowser alive.

The primary purpose of this role is as an incentive to extend the game. Wincons in this game are extremely time sensitive, and this works as an interesting counterpoint. Once the game is over, I'd be curious to see whether this role chooses to reveal themselves in doc or not.

This could potentially give Bleeder away, giving her another reason to scan her targets before killing them.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Dowser: You have a secondary objective here tonight. In addition to your Smuggler role, you will learn the identity and alignment of whomever kills 5th Constable. Any action you take that targets 5th Constable will become a kill action. You lose if the game ends with 5th Constable alive.

Similar to the previous role, but on the village side. 

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Non Faction specific Roles

Gambling Tycoon: The first time you would die, you will survive all attacks. (This includes the lynch.)

A protection role. Basically an extra village life.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Smuggler: You can cancel a player’s vote. If your action would cause a global tie, it is roleblocked. You cannot target the same player twice in a row. (Lynch vote or Dispersal vote)

Vote manip. Speaking of global ties, make sure at least one person votes- otherwise, everyone dies. At that point, I would assume that the constables would win, unless Flogs had already been killed (in which case Bleeder would).

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Impersonator: You can Move another player’s Lynch Vote. You cannot target players who have not voted. Your vote will be canceled as if escorted.

More vote manip.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Extortionist: You may force a player to target someone of your choice, even if they have not taken an action. You cannot target the same player twice in a row. You can choose a specific action to use, but if that action is not available to be used against the chosen target, it defaults to a random action.

A redirect.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Bodyguard: You may protect another player from one attack each hour. You cannot target the same player twice in a row.

A protection role.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Escort: You may prevent a player from taking an action, and they will count as being asleep the following Hour. You cannot target the same player twice in a row.

Being asleep means that your vote doesn't count for dispersal. If used on a constable at LyLo, this could save the village- however, if used on a villager in the same scenario, it would doom them instead.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Bartender: On even Hours, you may kill a player.

Village kill role.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Renowned: You can target a player and learn their role. Bleeder will appear as a bartender, Flogs as a bodyguard, Winsting as a Gambling Tycoon.

Interesting that Winsting would appear as having an extra life when he doesn't...

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Gossip: You may send 4 Private Messages each turn.

Lots of talking. Hopefully whoever gets this role has a lot to say.

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, A Joe in the Bush said:

Stalker: You may watch a player and see who they visit. You may not target the same player twice in a row.

I think this is an action scan?

[Emi]

Wow. That's a lot of informations

[Elkanah]

3 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Interestingly enough, Flogs might actually be safer sharing their identity with a scanned constable instead of a scanned villager, as the constables have a vested interest in keeping him alive. Not that they should do this, of course, but its interesting to think about.  

Mind=blown

5 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Similar to the previous role, but on the village side. 

Dowser is interesting in that he has a pretty normal village win condition. He has to find and kill all the constables, not just the 5th Octant Constable. He just gets the extra gift of learning who is either bleeder or the village bartender. You are also told which it was which is nice and subverts the possibility of inadvertently revealing a village kill role.  

 

I'll admit I am afraid that this game may be a little information heavy, but I'm sure it will be fine.

 

With gambling Tycoons in the mix, we are probably playing with more like 34-ish players. We get almost as much information out of lynching them as we would by killing someone, and we retain their votes. It will be very interesting to see what roles the elims got. What would be really funny is if both Dowser and 5th Constable both were gambling tycoons, though I'm not sure Joe is quite that sadistic.

[StrikerEZ]

First off, welcome to all the new players! It's awesome seeing so many new faces in the games! It's been a long time since I've played with so many people I didn't already know.

Secondly, just want to ask @A Joe in the Bush something about the PMs. The one message we can send per turn, does that just mean we can only open one PM per turn, or we can literally only send one message?

Lastly, time to get some thoughts about the game out. I was going to do something like what xino did, but I should've known he would've already done it by now.  He basically had all the same kinds of thoughts I've had about the game. Just would like to say that I think we need to be very careful about when or if we disperse. I would not put it past Joe to put in something like 9 elims this game, just to throw us off since we're all probably assuming that there's 7-8 elims based on percentage alone. At that point, I would assume that the elims wouldn't have very many powerful roles. That would be more than made up by the extra elim though. I'm not sure how much I believe this theory, but I know I definitely would've considered that distribution if I were running this. Just to make it more likely that the constables would have a chance to win by getting the village to disperse when they believe they've found the last elim.

[Mat]

17 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Secondly, just want to ask @A Joe in the Bush something about the PMs. The one message we can send per turn, does that just mean we can only open one PM per turn, or we can literally only send one message?

Additionally, does replying to a PM someone else sends us count as our PM for the cycle?

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

Lord Verduex sighed when the first shots rang out. Why is so hard to have a party in Elendel these days?

---

\ With both Elims and a SK around, there will be plenty of kills each cycle. The lynch will certainly hasten that. Normally, I shy away from a cycle 1 lynch, because the chance of hitting an elim or getting useful, usable information out of it is low. With at least two deaths coming each cycle, adding another C1 is a bit much.

However, as has been mentioned before, these kills are likely to be village, as the Constables are aware of who the non-Constables are. If Bleeder attacks this cycle, she'll be shooting blind, so there's a higher chance of Elims dying to Bleeder early on. The lynch is the village's opportunity to direct a kill, but as I mentioned above, our chances of hitting elims are low, and for Bleeder even lower. Though, it would be amusing if we lynched Bleeder C1...

[Straw]

34 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

First off, welcome to all the new players! It's awesome seeing so many new faces in the games! It's been a long time since I've played with so many people I didn't already know.

Secondly, just want to ask @A Joe in the Bush something about the PMs. The one message we can send per turn, does that just mean we can only open one PM per turn, or we can literally only send one message?

Lastly, time to get some thoughts about the game out. I was going to do something like what xino did, but I should've known he would've already done it by now.  He basically had all the same kinds of thoughts I've had about the game. Just would like to say that I think we need to be very careful about when or if we disperse. I would not put it past Joe to put in something like 9 elims this game, just to throw us off since we're all probably assuming that there's 7-8 elims based on percentage alone. At that point, I would assume that the elims wouldn't have very many powerful roles. That would be more than made up by the extra elim though. I'm not sure how much I believe this theory, but I know I definitely would've considered that distribution if I were running this. Just to make it more likely that the constables would have a chance to win by getting the village to disperse when they believe they've found the last elim.

Nine elims is a possibility. In that case, I'd expect a lot of villagers with powerful roles or multiple roles and/or a pretty weak elim team.

I believe 12 players have checked in now. I'll poke Araris Valerian for now, since he's the first person on the playerlist who hasn't checked in yet. We'll have to be careful about inactivity, and keep the bar fairly high. It'd be easy for Bleeder or the Constables to hide in the crowd of inactives.

[Mist]

C1 lynch requires 3 votes, likely to ensure that we are sure about the lynch. The rest require 0.

Bleeder may want to gather information rather than kill, since, as it has been said, 

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

In order for Bleeder to win, she needs to kill both Flogs and Winsting. Because of this, it's in her best interests to keep at least one constable alive for as long as possible, in order to increase the number of kills flying around. However, she also wants to make sure that the elims' numbers are kept in check, so the party doesn't disperse before she's finished. That's presumably where her scan comes in handy.

She won't want to kill too many elims too quickly.

It benefits everyone except Bleeder to lynch her, because if she kills Winsting, the game ends and she wins. If Bleeder and all of the constables are lynched, the game ends next hour with a village victory.

[Mat]

9 minutes ago, Straw said:

I believe 12 players have checked in now. I'll poke Araris Valerian for now, since he's the first person on the playerlist who hasn't checked in yet. We'll have to be careful about inactivity, and keep the bar fairly high. It'd be easy for Bleeder or the Constables to hide in the crowd of inactives.

If 12 people have checked in wouldn't there be 18 left, not one? The playerlist has 30 people.... or am I misunderstanding something

Edited May 25, 2020 by Matrim's_Dice

[Straw]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

If 12 people have checked in wouldn't there be 18 left, not one? The playerlist has 30 people.... 

I never said he was the only person on the playerlist who hadn't checked in. I just went to the playerlist and checked to see if the person at the top of the list had posted. If he hadn't, I would have just continued down until I found someone who hadn't posted yet.

[little wilson]

watching watching watching watching watching

bang!

a body fell and mad watcher dropped almost as fast (tho not quite as fast because she had a drink in her hand and it was reeeeaaalllly good and she didnt want to spill any of it).

she crawled to a table and watched. but hiding watching. not out in the open watching like before. she wasnt completely stupid after all.

bodies dropping and blood flying. this was not precisely how shed thought this night would go. she supposed she shouldve known better.

but really who would shoot up a lovely little auction bribing away the loyalties of the governors brother? wouldnt it be better to just buy those loyalties yourself rather than kill everyone?

crazy people.

-

beep boop. testing testing can you hear me?

joe made my gm pm all lowercase and it made me happy to see. im not even sad now that im not evil - id been planning on talking in the doc like this cuz it wouldve been hilllllarrrious and now i dont get to but its fine cuz im a gossip and therefore i get to talk in my pms like this its so wonderful. thats a roleclam btw. roleclam? whered the i go? fingers whyd you miss the i. 

i gots a tiny bad feeling in a place that starts with g and rhymes with wut about straw and karnage. so straw. get rekt.

beep boop.

[Straw]

1 minute ago, little wilson said:

beep boop. testing testing can you hear me?

joe made my gm pm all lowercase and it made me happy to see. im not even sad now that im not evil - id been planning on talking in the doc like this cuz it wouldve been hilllllarrrious and now i dont get to but its fine cuz im a gossip and therefore i get to talk in my pms like this its so wonderful. thats a roleclam btw. roleclam? whered the i go? fingers whyd you miss the i. 

i gots a tiny bad feeling in a place that starts with g and rhymes with wut about straw and karnage. so straw. get rekt.

beep boop.

Interesting tone.

What makes you have a bad gut read of Karnage and me?

On a separate note, xino's post bothers me when I look at it more. Some of the stuff is literally just repeating the role descriptions. It feels like a way to make it look like he's saying a lot while actually saying very little. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on him.

[The Young Pyromancer]

Right, checking in. I'm going to try to be less active this game, as all my previous games everyone has hated on me d1/killed me N1, and I'm trying to remedy that.

[little wilson]

1 minute ago, Straw said:

Interesting tone.

What makes you have a bad gut read of Karnage and me?

On a separate note, xino's post bothers me when I look at it more. Some of the stuff is literally just repeating the role descriptions. It feels like a way to make it look like he's saying a lot while actually saying very little. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on him.

not sure what you mean by interesting tone - i said id be super casual this game.   - also, heres a question for anyone - you know the shortened word for casual the one that's almost like cash? how do you spell that cuz i don't think it's cash, but i can't think of what else it would be? caj? that makes no sense but i really want to say super cash/caj/whatever it is cuz thats even more casual but i dont know how to spell it. its a problem.

anyway. maybe your tone is interesting. im just being me.

and i dont know! i just do! its a gut read for a reason. how do you explain a gut read - if you could explain it it would have basis in logic and therefore wouldnt be gut read ya know? tsk tsk straw. asking for explanations when there are none. le sigh.

heh. imo you could say the same thing a bit about yourself

[Mat]

37 minutes ago, Straw said:

I never said he was the only person on the playerlist who hadn't checked in. I just went to the playerlist and checked to see if the person at the top of the list had posted. If he hadn't, I would have just continued down until I found someone who hadn't posted yet.

But Araris Valerian is 29th on the list.

I'm sorry Straw, this is too strange to ignore.

[Straw]

3 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Right, checking in. I'm going to try to be less active this game, as all my previous games everyone has hated on me d1/killed me N1, and I'm trying to remedy that.

That's really not useful at all. I'm probably going to be more suspicious of people who are trying to fly under the radar than people who are actually trying to contribute.

Just now, Matrim's_Dice said:

But Araris Valerian is 29th on the list.

I'm sorry Straw, this is too strange to ignore.

...

Go to the player list at the start of this cycle and open it.

Then, look at the top name. It's Araris.

[little wilson]

i hate to jump to straws defense here but i believe straw is using the player list in joes post this turn - it has the player list in alphabetical order, so araris is at the top.

also joe - why am i at the bottom but rae is at the top????

edit: darn, ninjad for my question :((((

[The Young Pyromancer]

2 minutes ago, Straw said:

That's really not useful at all. I'm probably going to be more suspicious of people who are trying to fly under the radar than people who are actually trying to contribute.

...
WHYYYYYYYYY-

*sigh*

Every game I've been in people have either tried to lynch me D1 or killed me N1. Including my first game. And two versions of the same game. And I've noticed people who posted less tended to get lynched less. So I'm giving you fair warning.