alder24

Simply speaking it's just a free power source for anyone who can use investiture. Allomancers or Feruchemists can normally use a tiny bit of power drawn from Preservation, but we've seen how powerful they can become when they had access to pure Dor. There are many worlds in Cosmere that are similarly limited and having access to pure unkeyed investiture would make them more powerful. This makes it a valuable trade good and I think that's what Mraize is after. This doesn't mean that Ghostbloods in general want this, but they do sell powerful stuff to finance their operation, like aluminum. Having monopol on Stormlight would make them the most powerful organisation in Cosmere. And of course, with basically unlimited investiture, Scadrian Metalborn would be capable of defending Scadrial from any potential threat, which serves Kelsier’s goal of both protecting Scadrial and democratizing magic.

There wouldn't have been 17 Shards, he would have taken one of the Shards we know of (Virtuosity). But there could be created a different number of Shards during the Shattering. It's an interesting theory (with its own problems which you pointed out yourself) and I think you might be onto something. Brandon did say that Shards represent a singular personality with an attached force of creation of Adonalsium and investiture of Adonalsium was aligned with those forces/personalities before the Shattering and it went with those alignments during the Shattering. So those intents certainly existed within Adonalsium before the Shattering in one form or another, but maybe they were kind of in a superposition and the Shattering collapsed it into a discrete pure Tones or something like this? No idea, but it's certainly interesting to think about it now.

This is wrong because the air is moving in and out of speed bubbles, it crosses the boundary. However, just like a bullet is redirected, air particles are as well.

I can see several explanations for this. Why do Honorspren or Inkspren look like humans even though they predate human arrival on Roshar? Either they were made like this by Shards, or they took this appearance over 7,000 years because of the dominant human-centric perception of them. Voidspren like Ulim have another, third option that can explain why they look and behave like humans - because they might have originated from Ashyn and came to Roshar during the Ashynite migration. Ulim belittled Venli not because she's a Singer, but because she's a Listener - a daughter of traitors. This is the reason why their relationship is like that. Of course, this doesn't mean that Ulim isn't normally abusive like this, but this isn't unique to humans only - everyone can be like this, Singers and spren alike. She's a Fused, she's insane after living for 7,000 years just like all other Fused. They are no longer like humans, they are more like spren, driven by their singular intent. Lezian is obsessed with his Pursuer's reputation, while Raboniel is obsessed with ending this war for good - no matter which side wins or loses. She did this before, she created a disease that wiped a huge number of both humans and Singers and even other Fused were condemning her for this. Because of her obsession she couldn't care less about Singers - and humans too - as long as she finds a way to end this war. There are however still some Fused who care about their fellow Singers - Leshwi for example. She honestly wants to win this war for Singers to live freely again. RoW ch 15: As a Fused she can use only Rhythms of Odium, just like other Regals. They had Rhythms of Roshar overwritten by Rhythms of Odium. However, Anti-Voidlight consumed most of her soul and her Connection to Odium and Roshar. She was unable to hear Rhythms in her dying moments because her Connection to Odium and Roshar was partially destroyed. Not really. Yes, currently on Ashyn there is a disease-based system, but it wasn't always like this. It changed because of the destruction of the planet. Humans fled Ashyn not to pursue Cultivation, but because they were escaping an apocalypse they'd caused. Cultivation was indeed on Ashyn, Ashynite magic is mostly Cultivation based, but Cultivation was only there for a short moment. Ashyn wasn't a major Shardworld, it wasn't a planet on which she settled on, Roshar was and she settled on Roshar together with Honor at the same time. Singers were forbidden from using Surges by spren and gods. This ultimately caused them to switch places with humans and turn to Odium, while they turned to Honor and Cultivation. Surges weren't created by Shards directly, they are natural manifestations of powers of creation and they materialized after Honor and Cultivation settled on Roshar. Eila Stele: Song of Secret: Odium didn't gave his Surges to anybody, Fused and Regals are still using Honor and Cultiation's Surges and Surgebinding. Voidbinging wan't really used before, it's something new and it's probably what Renarin does. RoW ch 31: I don't believe Fused were Singers and humans fused together. The Stormfather directly stated that Fused are souls of ancient Singers and Leshwi reaction to Venli's Radiant bond also confirms in my mind that she was just a Singer. She remembers the time before she became a Fused, she refers to herself as a Singer and stuff like this. Moreover, Odium doesn't want to destroy neither Singers or humans, he wants to rule over them, be their only god and use them in his conquest of Cosmere, to fight against other Shards. OB ch 38: RoW ch 109: RoW ch 112: That was just a few individuals, they don't matter and don't reduce his army size. He agreed to the contest because he lost his second champion (Kaladin), he lost the Tower and Dalinar spoke to Ishar and Odium now thinks they work together. He's afraid of Dalinar. Both Odium and Rayse actually appreciated what Leshwi had done and deemed it as serving the Passion - even if they both didn't like it. RoW ch 112: RoW ch 113: Fused are just Cognitive Shadows of Odium. Everyone can be a Fused. Odium can use humans by making them bond with his Voidspren, like we saw him do during the battle of Thaylen Field. He doesn't need to make everyone into Fused, he doesn't even need to make them all bond to Voidspren, he just needs them to be obedient. The Stormfather said that Fused were kings and lighteyes (there were no Lighteyes back then) because he was speaking in terms Dalinar will understand - kings aren't unique to humans, other races can have kings as well, Lighteyes simply means nobility. Fused were simply the leaders of Dawnsingers, the most important Dawnsingers at that time - not humans.

Nightblood's ability to consume investiture is more related to the fact that he's a steel sword that tries to imitate Shardblades. A sword knows only one thing - how to cut. It doesn't know what evil is as this is something so alien to it that it can't comprehend it. A Shardblade also cuts but in all three realms - that's what Nightblood tries to imitate and he also cuts in all three realms. And Nightblood being out of steel makes him interact with investiture the way he does, because steel has a special property not just in Allomancy - if he were made out of a different metal, like bronze or iron, he would have a different effect. If he were a shield, he wouldn't be able to do what he's doing now, because a shield has a vastly different purpose than a sword - a shield doesn't destroy, it protects. Those facts combined, together with a twisted Command, made Nightblood who he is. Investiture isn't evil, he's just using it to power his Command. And so it happened in Cosmere that everything is made out of investiture, that matter, energy and investiture are the same thing, thus Nightblood can use everything to power himself. This is something he as an Awakened entity needs, even Vivenna's blade still needs something to power herself (she drains color out of her victims, which is a reflection of a change that happens in the Spirit Web). Nightblood is a bit like a Returned because they both need to feed on investiture to be alive. Investiture is just food to him. Cutting things in all three realms is how he destroys. The WoB provided by @Trusk'our did specify what Nightblood considers as evil: Other WoBs:

It wasn't, it was the fear that Radiants would destroy Roshar with Surgebinding, just like their ancestors did on Ashyn - and during the False Desolation they actually did destroy part of Roshar by imprisoning Misharam, which lobotomized the entire Singer race. OB ch 113: Aharietiam was not related to Honor's death: This did not break the remnants of the Oathpact, in fact Dalinar still saw it when he touched Nale. This is an interesting idea and it would explain why Kalak said that Mishram was related to Honor's death in some way. You can't trap Honor's full, infinite power in a gemstone, at most you can trap its Vessel, which isn't the power itself. Secondly, Radiants gave Honor's Drop to Elsecallers for safekeeping, as their duty was to look over every perfect gemstone - perfect gemstone's existed before the False Desolation, Honor's Drop is nothing new or special. OB ch 83 epigraphs: But Honor was killed after the imprisonment of Mishram, he lived long enough to have witnessed and recorded the Recreance in visions even though he was already dying - he wasn't dead yet.

How would breaking Oaths kill or even hurt Honor? They weren't even bound to him and Honor was already dying before the Recreance happened. I don't think this would work like this. Also the Recreance happened in the span of days and the decision was made individually by each Radant and their spren - there was no grand meeting where everyone decided to break their Oath at a specific time or something like this. I still think that the best explanation, which is also supported by the books, is that they saw the consequences of imprisoning BAM and realized that they already did destroy Roshar, just like Honor promised them, just like their ancestors destroyed their homeworld, and thus they decided to break their Oaths to save Roshar from Surgebinding and further destruction. There might be something else to it, but I think the core reason was just that. OB ch 113:

If I were to guess, it's because Gavilar successfully unified Alethkar. This and his public religious favor probably made the Stormfather think that Gavilar would be a good candidate. Gavilar started to receive visions some time after becoming the king, at least 23 years before OB as that was when he started mentioning Radiants and the importance of the words. However, Dalinar started to receive visions shortly after Gavilar's assassination, the first one happened the night before his visit to the Nightwatcher, which was around 5 months after that fateful night (judging from dates of OB flashbacks). So there was no massive gap in time. In those 5 months, the Stormfather sent visions to other people (it was somewhere confirmed that there were other people receiving visions, can't find it now), but probably reverted back to Dalinar because none showed the same potential that he had. OB ch 49: OB ch 114:

The Vessel itself is actually very little investiture compared to the whole Shard - it's less than what an Unmade had. Aethers by comparison seem to be more invested than that - they themselves claim to be collectively equal to Adonalsium and Shards. Moreover, we've seen Nightblood fall into the food coma in OB during the end battle, after Dalinar opened his perpendicularity, Nightblood fed on light which satisfied his hunger. Nightblood is already full, he can't hold anything more, just a bit of investiture at most. What you want him to hold is way too much than he's capable of. He would quickly fall into the coma after being dropped into the spore ocean and then he just won't consume that much at all. Aethers produce enough spores to make them visibly fall from the sky from all across the sea, this may not be a huge amount compared to the entire planet, but this would be too much for Nightblood. Add to this that most of the spores never consume water to give it to their Aethers in the first place, they just decompose instead and Aethers probably won't even feel Nightblood on Lumar at all. However, let's assume that you're right and Nightblood will be able to theoretically consume the entirety of the spore of oceans. Then I think that he still won't be able to do this but from a different reason. Spores aren't water, they don't flow like water, the only way they act like this on Lumar is because of the seethe, the air rising from the bottom of the ocean which fluidizes the ocean of spores. The degradation of spores deep down is what causes the seethe in the first place. If you drop Nightblood at the bottom of the ocean and it will start consuming spores around it, it would create a dead zone where no seethe will be created and you will end up with spores ceasing to act like a fluid in this area. You would basically create a hole made out of solid spores in one, tiny part of the Lumarian oceans and that's it, the rest of the planet's spores would be unaffected. It will have weird consequences for the local region, but that's it. That's what I think would happen. Of course we don't know for sure, it's just a guess, but I think it's based on enough facts to make me believe that Nightblood won't consume the spore oceans, just like he can't consume the Dor or the planet. That's just way too much for something that is already full and overstuffed with investiture.

Hello, welcome to the Shard. If you're interested, here are some useful tips that can help you navigate the forum: Sharder FAQ. Also, because this topic involves Nightblood, which is from books other than Tress, you should have posted it in the Cosmere Discussion section, but no worry, I'll ask mods to move it there for you. To figure out if this will even work you would have to "guesstimate" the rate at which Nightblood consumes investiture over a long period of time when he's in the food coma state (which is very low) and the rate at which Lumarian Aethers produce spores which fill the ocean, which seems to be constant for every Aether. My guess is that because Nightblood would very quickly fall into the food coma state, he wouldn't be able to consume more than the moons produce, thus the oceans would be almost unaffected. They ain't going anywhere. Nightblood is powerful, very powerful, but he's not on the planet-eating level, not even on the ocean-eating one. He would get full very, very, very quickly if you get him so much investiture to eat. But Nightblood eats EVERYTHING, not just every type of investiture, but all the matter that touches him and whatever else there is he can access. Cosmere and RoW Spoiler WoBs:

I don't like the idea of reforging the Oathpact, I think this is a dead end simply because it was tried once before and it failed spectacularly. The Oathpact is bound to end in a disaster. Making 10 people suffer through endless torture isn't any solution, it's just a delaying tactic which will bakfire one day. And now when Fused know that they just need to capture Heralds in gemstones to eliminate the Oathpact entirely, there is no reason to even try reforging the Oathpact. Sooner than later Heralds will break again, this will start another Desolation, Fused will capture Heralds and Kaladin in gemstones and then what's next? Making another Oathpact and sacrificing another 10 people? Oathpact is useless now, they need a new solution, a permanent solution - something that Rayse has agreed to. And why would you want Kaladin, who already struggles immensely with his own depression, to be tortured for an eternity on Braize? That's just cruel. I don't want him to be a Herald. Kaladin isn't just about protecting people, he did an unhealthy amount of protecting, sacrificing himself for others. He needs to learn to protect himself as well, how to live for himself and those around him. Leaving the army was a step in the right direction and he didn't do this to protect others - he did it for himself.

It's possible, but I don't trust him. In RoW ch 111 Ishar said that he alone bears the Oathpact, which is a untrue because Ishar abandoned the Oathpact, Taln was the only one who remain faithful and we saw this when Dalinar saw the Oathpact when fighting against Nale - there was only one strong Connection remaining, that one had to be Taln's. This doesn't have to mean that Ishar lied, Ishar can truly believe in what he's saying because of his insanity. Either way, this statement seems a little bit off and I don't trust Ishar's words. He either talks about things that are totally insane or delusional. And while he seems a little bit better now, I still wouldn't be surprised if there is much more to this.

I couldn't find any, the closest one asked if Adonalsium left a Cognitive Shadow, but it's certainly possible for Cognitive Shadows to exist before the Shattering simply because the mechanism of creating them is Shard-independent - you just have to be sufficiently invested in the moment of death to become one. However, pre-Shattering Cognitive Shadows would still have their investiture assigned to Shards after the Shattering, just like everything else, spren included, was assigned to the 16 during the Shattering. Investiture of Cognitive Shadows would be tied to Adonalsium because it came from him and thus it would change just like everything else. That Cognitive Shadow would not be independent of Shards and it wouldn't be impossible to kill. Tthere are many, many ways to kill a Cognitive Shadow, anti-light is just one of them and anti-light doesn't even have to match to annihilate. And even if they were made out of Adonalsium's pure investiture, that would mean it still has it's own Tone and frequency, which can be used and reversed to create anti-light once people learn how to convert Stormlight into other forms of investiture, which is possible. WoBs:

Lift, you break my heart with those thoughts. Sleepless were watching Hoid and Dalinar this all time. Hoid was right to find a place so loud they wouldn’t have been able to listen to their conversation. So you guys were right, collapsing perpendicularity actually sucked people into it. But not Wit, he somehow was able to resist it - Allomancy? Lift making herself un-awesome was awesome, it’s confirmed Abrasion works in both ways. And why is Lift so highly invested? I know Cultivation and all of this, but what did she do to Lift which made her that invested? This is bad. Not only Dalinar and Navani are trapped in the Spiritual Realm, but now Gav is as well? This is really, really bad. I wonder if he will experience time dilation and leave SR as an adult? Weird time skip? And what sorts of horrors will he see in SR? Her mother being consumed by Yelig-Nar? His father being killed by Moash? Him being tortured by all those spren and Unmades around him? I hope he will find some peaceful visions of his father at least, hopefully he won’t be disappointed by the Elhokar from WoK or WoR. And with that Mraize, Shallan and all who were on the other side were sucked into the SR. I would like to know why this collapsing perpendicularity did what Nightblood couldn’t. I simply thought that the release of energy from annihilation would push everything outwards, as a normal giant explosion would do. I’m glad to see Kaladin and Szeth having some quality time over a crem soup. It could have been better, but a bad soup is a soup. Kal, you have to stop pressing on Szeth and forcing him to start healing. That’s not going to work on Szeth. You did it differently in RoW, you took people away from dark rooms, changed their surroundings to something better and they opened themselves, willingly sharing their pain with those who can understand them. You sure don’t have that much time now, but bluntly forcing him to do the therapy session won’t work on Szeth - you need to find something to bond over with, a soup was a good start. Oh, Kaladin and the Wind have to preserve the remnant of Honor. What’s that? Splintered piece of Honor? Can Kaladin Ascend to that piece? Or is that everything that remains of Honor, including the hidden core in the Spiritual Realm? Ishar?? That was a surprise. What is he doing there? Why? How? When? Wut??? That was a great jumpscare! Finding Ishar was just that easy?? Wait a minute, “Navani shrugged at the news??” Did Hoid make a Lightwaeving of her?? Is he pretending to be Dalinar when Lift plays as Navani? Oh that’s hilarious! And worrisome because Hoid can now make sure that Roshar will play as he wants them to. Ishar’s plot is getting more and more interesting. He has his own plans, he set up Szeth on this path long ago, what else did he do? Does he hold this remnant of Honor the Wind mentioned? He explained what Kalak said earlier, that he carries the pan of other Heralds - “the burdens of nine become mine.” However if he makes them better, shouldn’t he be worse with all of their insanity compound onto him? Something doesn’t check out. He already lied in RoW saying that he alone carries the Oathpact, but we saw from Dalinar and Nale confrontation that only one Connection was unbroken and that has to be the one who didn't abandon the Oathpact - Taln. Ishar actually said in RoW that Taln is “the Bearer of their agonies,” which suggests that Taln is carrying all of their pains, not Ishar. Maybe Ishar’s insanity is partially caused by his guilt? He is the one responsible for leaving Taln on Braize, he came up with this idea. Maybe deep inside he blames himself for this, thinking it should have been him stuck on Braize for 4 millenia, that he should have executed this terrible idea instead of Taln. And as a consequence of this blame, he partially thinks he’s in Taln’s place or something like that - that he’s the sole keeper of the Oathpact (Taln is), that he takes the pain of every other Herald (maybe Taln is actually doing this, he’s on Braize, where all Heralds were supposed to share their pain through the Oathpact, maybe due to this parts of their insanity fall on Taln and that made him as broken as he is right now). Anyway, I don’t know what to think of this, but I don’t trust Ishar. Also, his interest in Syl is worrisome, I know what you’re thinking Ishar, don’t even try it! Thoughts on potential champions. Gav is more and more suited to be Odium’s champion and whatever will happen to him in the SR can have devastating consequences, but Adolin too - for all he knows his wife was just killed. And not just his wife, but his father is now lost in the Spiritual Realm instead of being where he’s needed - he may even blame him for her death. I’m not trying to argue for those specific theories, but I am just looking at the seeds that keep growing. Odium can try to exploit both of them. Just one more week to go. I feel like Renarin in WoR, counting days to the day the visions shown to me (pre-released chapters) will come to pass!

I don't think this would work like this. The reason why Atium-electrum alloy burned with duralumin produced an effect similar to that of burning pure Atium was because both metals allow one to peer into the Spiritual Realm and see the future. The difference is that pure Atium allows you to peer and step directly into the Spiritual Realm and see it all. However, because both metals use the same mechanism, Atium-electrum alloy can achieve the same level as pure Atium, but it has to fight through more interference to get there. You could also achieve the same effect when burning just electrum, but that would require you to burn through even more power as electrum has even more interference to fight through than Atium alloy. Those three metals all work by using the same way of accessing the future and thus with enough power you can get the same effect and that's why Atium-electrum alloy burned with duralumin produces pure Atium effect.

We unfortunately don't know a way to kill the Shard. We only know the general idea of it, but not how it works in detail. We know that the easiest way to do that is to kill the Vessel and then Splinter its power, but what it means to Splinter the power is unknown. Nightblood, Anti-light are not even close to being able to kill the entire Shard. Shardic power is basically infinite, but they can kill the Vessel - Nightblood killed Rayse, the Vessel of Odium, but the Shard of Odium was not affected - Nightblood can't hold infinity. Similarly, you can't create enough Anti-light to kill the entire Shard. It's impossible and the discovery of Anti-light is very fresh. You should be able to create enough Anti-light to kill the Vessel as the Vessel could be trapped in a gemstone that can hold an Unmade (which has more investiture than the Vessel). So whatever Odium did to kill Honor and other Shards was very different from using Nightblood or Anti-light. Also because Shards are basically infinite, they can't give out too much of themselves and dwindle away - it's simply impossible. We know that in the past Odium did use some exploits and argued others had broken a word they had given, which allowed him to Splinter Devotion and Dominion. This is something Odium said is dangerous for Shards, if they break their Oath, this will create an opening that will allow other Shards to exploit it and Splinter that Shard. This is probably how Honor was Splinter, but we don't know that. And this also happened primarily in the Spiritual Realm, but such an event can transcend all Realms and have effects on the Physical Realm. We also know that Honor's death was a long process, we don't know when he was dealt the killing blow, but he was fighting till the end and then it took him some time to died and be Splintered. I doubt however that this caused the Shattering of the Stormseat. Timeline doesn't really fit for this. Personally, I think the Shattered Plains were destroyed by using the Anti-tone of the Stormseat and amplifying it from the center of the city. Each Dawncity has its own, unique frequency, so reversing its frequency, creating Anti-tone of that could have devastating effects and destroy it. The Shattered Plains have a clear, symmetrical pattern, just like any other Dawncity, I believed this pattern was an Anti-tone of Stormseat used to destroy it. It was also said in Listeners songs that it wasn't their gods that broke the Shattered Plains so this suggests that it wasn't because Odium killed Honor as Odium is one of Singer's gods. Someone else must have destroyed the city. RoW ch 97: RoW ch 112: Song of Wars:

Welcome to the Shard. Please avoid posting on topics like this, which have been dead for almost 4 years. This is necro-posting and it's against Shard's policy. You can just create your own topic with whatever question you have. Here are some more tips about the forum if you're interested: Sharder FAQ As for your question he isn't Honor now, after all he's all normal, with a normal physical body and stuff like that - Shards don't have that, they transcend all Realms and exist primarily in the Spiritual Realm like Odium does. Dalinar is still a normal person although he’s a Bondsmith Connected to the Stormfather, who’s Connected to the remnants of dead Honor (so maybe he's not that normal, but he's not a Shard). But something special did happen in that scene in Oathbringer. It looks like Dalinar temporarily Ascended to something called Unity and we don't know more than that. Brandon is avoiding answering questions about this, but one thing is clear - Dalinar did something there and both Odium and the Stormfather saw what was going on with him and were surprised, or even scared (Odium). WoB:

I couldn't find any direct answer to this, but as far as I understand it bonding a Shardblade makes you permanently a lighteye and those light eyes would be then passed on to Shardbearer's kids. All of their kids would be lighteye after bonding a Shardblade.

It does happen, but it's very, very rare.

Regular Breaths can be suppressed like a Divine Breath, but this is a skill one has to learn and master:

Yes, it was confirmed in previous chapters, when Shallan and Adolin were in Shadesmar and were talking to Azish Oathgate spren, Shallan said both of them are Inkspren. I'll try to find the quote, but can't remember which chapter it was. Edit: Found it, that was fast. WaT ch 12:

I think there is water mixed with your stomach acid (you drink it, it mixes, it stays), it would react with Harmonium anyway. I believe it's about proximity to the soul and for that it needs to go inside of your body. Using Kandra for that is a great idea. But humans might have a shot too - just stop intaking any fluids and wait until your mouth is extremely dry. It might be dry enough so you can hold it inside and burn it without interacting with any water. F-duralumin would probably help a lot - just store as much water as you can, later tap it so you won't suffer from dehydration. It's still a very risky idea, but probably the simplest that could work. You could also try coating Harmonium in another burnable metal, best would be duralumin. You have to burn through the outer layer first before burning Harmonium, but I think once you make a hole in the coating, you should be able to start burning parts of the inner metal. That's why duralumin would be the best option because the moment it happens, you would burn everything at once, preventing Harmonium from interacting with water at all.

Rusts, now the logo will bug me every time I look at it. Yours is so satisfying in comparison. Perfection! Oh yes, that's great too. But that's 12 not 16! So close yet so far. Rotate every group by 22,5 degrees and you'll fit 4 groups of 4 (but it will look crowded so current version 2 probably looks more aesthetically pleasing). Huh, this looks like a compass rose and it would look better with thinner @AltonicKeys shards:

What Cultivation said is that Honor wasn't Splintered which created Spren because Spren existed long before Honor's death, but Honor still was Splintered. That's the whole problem with Splintering of Honor as his Splintered power is now missing. It's not in Spren, it's not in the Cognitive Realm like the Dor, it's not in the Physical Realm like the Mists of Preservation - it's hidden somewhere in the Spiritual Realm. But Honor was Splintered by Odium. A tip for you: you can copy and paste WoBs with their formatting by using the "copy" option in the top right corner of the WoB, then you can paste it on the forum (it's good to use either a quote box or a spoiler box for copied WoB).

I think it would still require the 9th Heightening but you won't need as many Breaths to Awaken that clay. Blood/spit would act as a Focus, but you're still Awakening clay, it's still non-organic - that's why you need the 9th Heightening.