alder24

We were talking about what the Grand Knell is during pre-released chapters. We have no idea. Adonalsium, Ambition, D&D on Sel or maybe some old gods or Honor on Roshar were proposed as the source of it (it's pointing more or less towards the Origin). I lean towards Ambition's corpse rather than Adonalsium's because the Shattering happened on Yolen and Yolen was said to be hard to find by Khriss. It wouldn't be so hard to find if there were compasses pointing towards it made thousands of years ago.

Probably both. At this time he was Tezim, the god-king of Tukar, which was a different persona than Ishar. But Ishar himself lied and manipulated Szeth all throughout his past in Shinovar, so Ishar lying to force Szeth to once more accomplish his goal is in line with his character. WaT ch 33:

WIthout killing thier spren. But because Highspren don't bond this deep, they can break their bonds without becoming a Deadeye. OB ch 108: I also think this is because Szeth rejected Ishar's order to become a Herald when he swore the 5th Ideal. If all 5th Ideal Radiants were suddenly immortal, there would be no need for new Radiants between Desolations as eventually all would reach the 5th Ideal. WaT ch 133:

Did I miss this? Where was it said? I know about Drehy explaining the compass, but he didn't say it points towards the sun or that the sun is the Grand Knell. WaT ch 11:

Ok, I got you. You want Nightblood to make an Oathpact that will bind Harmony. It may be possible. However the Oathpact didn't bind Odium directly, at least not in the significant way, it bound his Fused and Voidspren and it utilized Braize's weird properties. Nightblood can't bind Harmony directly, he can bind something of his, but because Harmony is nowhere near Braize, I doubt he even would be able to create Oathpact to bind something of Harmony. Yes, he's Connected to Odium, but I wouldn't say that his Connection is much stronger than that of Heralds. All Heralds, except for Taln, served Odium on Ashyn, they were given powers directly by Odium, from Odium. They were his. That forges a very strong Connection. Taln also had a Connection to Cultivation because he tried to kill her. So Nightblood would have comparable Connection to Taln's Connection to Cultivation, but I'm not convinced his Connection was stronger to that of the other 9 who were fully Odium's. As for Kaladin, Connection to gods is helpful when forging an Oathpact, but it's not required. Szeth was a candidate, but he didn't have a lot of Connections to Shards. Kaladin did have a bit more to both Honor and Odium. The Oathpact is sworn to Honor and is bound by the power of Honor. Retribution now holds Honor, so he can probably use this to make something similar. WaT ch 64: Because direct clashes with Dominion, Devotion and especially with Ambition left a wound on Odium and made him weaker. Rayse tried to avoid making the same mistakes so he tried to find servants to exploit other Shards weaknesses before he could strike and kill them - like he did eventually to Tanavast. Desolations were not a part of his plan. It was both. Or rather Dawnshards were not mentioned as a weapon used to destroy Ashyn (but we know from WoBs they were involved), Surges were. Odium and Honor Surges were the main cause of Ashyn destruction. There is no such a thing as a "Physical or Cognitive Connection," all Connections are Spiritual. Investiture can manifest as a physical matter because investiture is matter and is also energy. That's why investiture pulled into the Physical Realm manifests physically as either solid, liquid or gas. But Connections are purely Spiritual. You can have Connections to the Physical Realm, but they are still Spiritual. She was. There is no Shard of War. It's Retribution. Just because his rhythm is called War doesn't mean there is a Shard of War. Combined Rhythm of Honor and Cultivation is called Tower, would those Shards combined create the Tower Shard? No, that doesn't make any sense. No, that's irrelevant. All Shards are strongly Connected because they were once part of something greater - Adonalsium. But those Connection were most likely ripped apart during the Shattering.

@therunner I will be honest with you, I don’t particularly enjoy the way we nitpick over every single minor detail we say (though I’m very guilty of continuing this and I can’t stop doing this), simply because it takes way too much time to go through every point of yours, time I don’t currently have. It’s still fun, just way too tiresome and time consuming to do this every day. Today, I’ll respond in a different way, a larger analysis of my position. I may or may not go back and respond to your points like we did previously, we shall see. I’ll start by restating who I think would win in what situation. For a non-united scenario, I believe neither Roshar nor Scadrial can successfully invade and conquer each other for many reasons I’ll get to later. If we consider united planets, Scadrial will also be unable to win on the offensive, however I think united Roshar might have just enough of an edge over Scadrial to win the war. In bath cases, the war would be a bloody massacre for both sides and it would be a very costly victory. Now, you’re eager to rightfully remind us that Scadrial has no means of getting to Roshar because they don’t have any infrastructure in CR, nor do the Basin own Harmony’s perpendicularity. This is of course a valid point, it’s also partially the reason why I believe Scadrian can’t win on Roshar, but you forget that Roshar is in an equally bad position, maybe even worse. Roshar has literally no means of getting to Shadesmar as of the end of WaT. Cultivation’s perpendicularity is gone and Oathgates stopped working and won’t reactivate ever again. We know this because they said with no Honor and no Stormlight, their era is over and because in Renarin’s vision of Urithiru, they’ve converted the Oathgate platforms into farms; despite having the Towerlight, Oathgates remain closed. Moreover, the Well of Control is currently empty, it can’t function as a perpendicularity for the nearest future and will need some time to refill - weeks, months, maybe even years. Rosharans can’t leave their world for now, just as Scadrians can’t. You might say that Rosharans have Dai-Gonarthis, who can open Oathgates anywhere she wants. Except she can’t. She needs massive concentrations of investiture on both sides of her Oathgate to make them - perpendicularities. Currently there is no active perpendicularity on Roshar and Harmony’s perpendicularity is in some unknown location, probably within Malwish territory. To make things even more problematic, she would probably need a ton of investiture to open a gate over such a massive distance (if that’s even possible for her at all). If that’s not enough, Retribution’s perpendicularity and the entire Shattered Plains are under Listeners control, so in the case of non-united planets, Retribution can’t even use his own Shardpool to move his troops or to create Elsegates with Dai-Gonarthis because she can’t get close enough to the Shardpool. Plus, there is also a price to be paid for using this Unamde - I think it was mentioned that she wants to destroy Roshar - whatever it means, this is such a cost that not even Rayse was employing her lightly. An Oathgate created on Scadrial will appear half a continent away from the Basin, next to Harmony’s perpendicularity, on land controlled by Malwish (which had to be dealt with either with diplomacy or with force), giving the Northerners plenty of time to prepare defences along the way. To summarize my first point, Rosharans have to wait for Retribution’s perpendicularity to get refilled before they could launch an invasion of Scadrial, which will take an unknown amount of time to begin with. Rosharans are incapable of invading another planet, just like Scadrians are - a fact that even Taravangian was aware of. He knew he wasn’t ready for his intergalactic war Dalinar threw him into. My next point is time dilation. You keep dismissing it, while this alone single-handedly wins the war for Scadrial. Because of time dilation, Rosharans are incapable of reliably supplying and reinforcing their troops fighting on Scadrial. Spending weeks on Roshar to prepare supplies for Scadrial would mean that months or years would have passed in the meantime on Scadrial. Months or years for their troops with no food, no equipment, no fresh men, no reborn Fused and most importantly, no Warlight. Time dilation prevents Roshar from using Singer’s faster maturing and their larger population; larger army means more resources needed, means larger supply trains, means more time is needed to prepare them, means additional months on Scadial which troops have to spend with limited resources. And I’m not even exaggerating with years here - it took months for Shallan to travel to Cultivation’s perpendicularity, which was several years outside of Roshar. A few minutes she spent talking to Kelsier were hours on Scadrial. It’s impossible for Rosharans to fight in such conditions. All those useful and fancy tricks Fused can do to harass Scadrian positions require Warlight. The only way for them to get Warlight right now is to pray to Odium once a day to get it - on Roshar, in the Everstorm. They need to carry those gems filled with Warlight to Scadrial from Roshar - a trip that will take weeks, months or even years for troops on Scadrial. If that wasn’t bad enough, Rosharans have basically no perfect gemstones to use to transport their light over such a long time - they would simply lose all their light before arriving at Scadrial. Spren have them, Honorspren have a whole storage of them in the Lasting Integrity, but for a non-united scenario those aren’t available. For the united one they are, which is one of the reasons why I believe they would win. Non-united Roshar would have only a limited amount of perfect gemstones, which would mean that Fused, Regals and Skybreakers on Scadrial would have to ration their very limited amount of investiture very, very carefully. If Sigzil and his Radiants run out of light after a few days of fighting, Fused would have to go weeks without any light - thus with no Surges. Healing would be a privilege as it wastes their already rare resources. They would avoid getting into situations where they would get shot. Lashing rocks is out of question because it requires a lot of light. They can maybe do it once or twice after getting resupply, but that’s it for months of battle. Rosharans can use Soulcasting to create food and resources for equipment, but that again requires Warlight and more gemstones. We don’t even know if Soulcasting fabrials still work, as the Oathgates don’t work - it’s possible that without Honor and his Oaths, all manifested fabrials might have ceased functioning. Assuming they didn’t, most Soulcasters are in Urithiru’s hands. We don’t know how Fused Soulcasting works compared to that of Radiants, there would be some differences and limitations, as with every Surge. They can Soulcast swords into smoke, possibly create stone as this type of Fused is considered to be great builders, but food is unknown - maybe but we’ve never seen them doing this. They still need Warlight and gemstones for that, which is a rare resource on Scadrial - too rare to rely on Soulcasting for supplying their massive army with everything. Alethi army on the Shattered Plains was already unsustainable without massive gemhearts gather from Chasmfiend runs - there are no Greathshells on Scadrial. All those hundreds of thousands experienced soldiers you throw around in previous posts would simply starve on Scadrial as they cannot be supplied because of time dilation. Time dilation screws Rosharans in this war and it alone is a reason for why Scadrial would win on defence. Scadrial on offence would also have a massive advantage due to time dilation. Scadrial can spend weeks preparing their huge supply caravan for it to arrive daily on Roshar. They would have lots of time to prepare technology and new strategies to deal with invested troops on Roshar. However Roshar would have all Warlight they need and even with time dilation aiding Scadrial on offence, having basically unlimited investiture, combined with the massive size of territory controlled by Retribution, would be enough for Rosharans to win on defence. You simply cannot ignore time dilation in this topic as this is the single, most important change that happened in WaT which matters for our discussion. Thirdly, Ghostbloods. They had an extensive network on Roshar, contacts with Fused, access to anti-investiture and even to a Herald and an Unmade - they are a treasure trove of precious knowledge about Roshar. A trove that would be wide open at the dawn on Rosharan invasion. The core purpose of Ghostbloods is to protect Scadrial and they would get involved in the war before it even starts. Felt and Aia and possibly some other agents are still on Roshar, they would be aware of any mass troop concentration and their march towards Scadrial - they would alert Scadrial, giving them months or years to prepare for war (time dilation you can’t ignore). Conscription, training, building defences, industrialization, weapon manufacturing would all happen within this time. Scadrial would have a lot of time to prepare themselves for the Rosharan invasion - Rosharans can’t just pop out next to Elendel and take it on the march. Scadrians would be ready and would be aware of all weak and strong points of Fused, Regals and Radiants, as Ghostbloods certainly kept track of this and had already passed all this knowledge to Scadrian Ghostbloods and Thaidakar himself. Ghostbloods would also provide Scadiral with the means to create aluminum on a truly industrial scale by revealing the secrets of electrolysis, which in TLM was already just a few years ahead. Some of Ghostbloods' agents (which most likely includes a few Skybreakers) would be involved in fighting as well, but their main strength is in information they can provide to the Basin. They are an invaluable help in this war. We kept discussing small scale strategies of individual Fused and Metalborn. Yes, it’s interesting and fun, but it kind of misses this larger scale I’m talking about now. There are just 2000 Fused of 9 kinds and a few hundreds Skybreakers with their squires, all operating on a very limited amount of Warlight. Yes, they can do many incredible things with their powers, but they can’t be everywhere at once and they can’t do it consistently because they have to ration their investiture. They won’t throw themselves into positions in which they would need a lot of healing because they have to save their light for long weeks/months before getting resupplied (also getting shot hurts). I wanted to show you that Scadrians have a whole bunch of things they can do on their own to counter Fused and it will never be as easy as “teleport behind their back.” Not every strategy I talk about needs to end with a kill, but creating a situation so risky that Fused/Skybreakers won’t be willing to risk their lives and proceed forward with their attack. They don’t have a lot of Warlight, they can’t heal forever, even shrapnels from indirect AA guns are sort of dangerous to them (and it would be trivial to make them out of aluminum, which would be deadly in the end). We can keep going in circles arguing about minor details of how individual people can fight, but I don’t have time for this now and it’s not an ultimate strategy to win the war. The Husk Ones won’t win the war alone. For every pull there is a push. There will always be this back and forth going on between Rosharans and Scadrials, some skirmishes will be won, others will be lost, ground will be captured or given constantly. Things will be changing, people dying, it would be a bloody mess. For every machine gun nest destroyed by Fused, there would be a dozen of new ones produced in factories and several on the battlefield that in the meantime slaughtered thousands of regular troops advancing in their neatly packed war paris or pike squares. The number of professional soldiers on Roshar simply doesn’t matter when even untrained conscripts who just got guns into their hands can kill hundreds of them before Rosharans even close the distance to be able to use their swords and spears. The technological difference is so overwhelming that regular troops are just useless in this war, only invested units matter. At best Warforms can be used as an occupational force, which still will be a very deadly task as every second Scadrian has a gun under their pillow. Yes, Rosharans will adapt and change their tactics, they will stop relying on formations, but the main problem their uninvested troops are facing is their weapons - they can’t compete against guns with swords and pikes. No matter what tactic they use, they will be shot before they even get close enough to swing their swords. There is not enough Fused and Warlight to solve all their problems. Yes, Scadrial has no experience in warfare as there were no wars for over 350 years. Well, Elend had no experience in leading armies and fighting battles, but he did something called learning from the past. Today’s generals may not have any experience in combat, but they did learn a lot about warfare. They learn from strategy meanings, theorizing, war games, reading about conflicts of the past, which still provide valuable lessons despite the technology difference. They are not in the best shape, that’s true, but believe it or not, trenches are as old as warfare itself. They have artillery, machine gun nests and dreadnoughts already, they have explosives and trains, they have mountains surrounding the entire Basin. They will struggle, they will learn, but they have one advantage that Rosharans don’t have - they have guns. Both sides will have to learn new tactics and perfect their strategy, but one side starts with swords and spears, the other has guns and artillery. I’m betting on the gun side to adapt faster. Roshar will never be able to utilize their hundreds of thousands of trained soldiers because they don’t have the reach to kill Scadrians with their guns. And no, Scadrial is not oblivious to bombardment, that’s the sole reason why they started to develop AA guns. Focused Ones are still incomparable to artillery. Don’t even get me started on armor. British Mark I-V tanks had 12-16 mm at the front, 12 mm on sides, 8 mm at the belly, plate armor ranges from 1 to 3 mm, some armors from the early modern period were 4-6 mm thick and they were already being penetrated by weapons of their time (depending on many factors like the angle of impact, or quality of steel etc). Plus Rosharans have a weird aversion to armor and prefer wearing colorful uniforms instead. Because what else than fashion could be the reason for why Kaladin didn’t wear the armor he got from Dalinar at the end of WoK, which could prevent Lezian stabbing him in the neck or prevent Leshwi from draining his Stormlight? I don’t know, apparently uniforms are too fabulous to cover them with armor. You may want to include Retribution and make him handwave some of the problems away, but he can’t do it. He can’t get involved. He went into hiding for a reason. If he starts getting involved in this war, other Shards would use this situation and they would bunch up against him and maybe even Splinter him. This would no longer be Scadrial vs Roshar war, it would be Cosmere vs Roshar and Taravangian is painfully aware that he can’t win such a war yet. Retribution’s contribution in this war is just as limited as Harmony’s is, but for a different reason. I feel like I had something more to talk about, but I can’t remember what it was. I’ve already spent way too much time writing this. For now that’s enough. I’ll say it again, I believe neither Roshar nor Scadrial can successfully conquer each other. United Roshar will have the best chances to do this, they could succeed, but it will not be easy as time dilation changed everything. It will always be a gruesome fighting with massive casualties on both sides.

Don't know. There are not a lot of Metalborn in the South, they simply might not have enough of them to do that with all medallions, or something special is required to make them work like the Bands. No, because there was nothing stored in the metalminds. Nicrosil Feruchemy and all other Feruchemical powers are given like memories in Coppermind, that's why they won't be drained. But that alone is not an attribute, in TLM there were no attributes stored in metalminds, no reserves to feel, that's why they felt nothing. Just like in BoM epilogue when Wax realized the coin is a medallion, he could felt a new reserve to tap - a coppermind, not a nicrosilmind. I think the nicrosil portion of medallions gives you the powers of Feruchemy so you can tap metalminds. True, but I was just talking about how the Bands might work, not how they appeared drained in TLM. Unlikely because at this point he didn't know the Bands were made by Kelsier, he thought they were made by Rashek and he had multiple of them.

Because they are Radiants, Radiants are of both Honor and Cultivation and Ideals are the core element of the Orders. Swearing Oaths with meaning to self-improve is a necessity. The Stormfather or even Honor's opinion doesn't really matter that much, because it's a system shared with Cultivation. Syl said it so when Kaladin swore the 3rd Ideal. As long as both the spren and their knight believe in the words they had spoken (Lopen believed in them when he said them, he lived them protecting wounded from depression), they will be accepted, even if they didn't actually know what they were doing (Eshonai), or the Stormfather forbids this. WaR ch 85: You said it yourself why Gavilar's words didn't matter - he had no Intent behind them. They were empty words, not Ideals, not Oaths. Gavilar was just guessing, the one time he wasn't guessing he had the Intent, but those weren't the right Words to become Radiant/Herald/Honor's champion, or whatever he was meant to be. Also, I think the intent and meaning are a different thing. Intent is not of Honor, it's the fundamental mechanic of Cosmere to which all are bound, Shards included. Honor doesn't care about the meaning of Oaths - it can be for good or bad, it doesn't matter to him - but the Intent to say them must be there all time as that's something else, something above Honor. Not a contradiction.

Because the Stormfather merged with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, a person who was rejected as a Vessel of Honor. For the power, accepting the Stormfather as the Vessel would be the same as accepting Tanavast once again. I don't think Mishram hated humans before her imprisonment. She was shown to be caring for fallen humans, calming them down when they were dying, regretting that she can't heal them. She also wanted to make permanent peace with humanity, to end Desolations forever. She passionately cared for Singers as she knew Odium didn't care for them and that certainly was a factor for the power of Odium. But the main reason was probably because she Ascended to the power of Odium in his perpendicularity. This attuned her more to Odium and made her a desirable Vessel (just like Vin became attuned to Preservation when she Ascended at the Well of Ascension. At the same time Rayse was struggling to control the power. He was in conflict with the power, the power hated that they were stuck on Roshar. The power also liked being questioned and liked arguments (unlike Rayse) and Mishram's actions directly questioned the authority of Rayse, she threw a gauntlet at his face claiming to be a new god that was to replace him. The power certainly like that about her. Moreover, unlike Rayse, when Mishram was questioned by the Listeners, she actually reconsidered her position and since then had worked to establish peace. All those small moments were something that the power of Odium liked and combining it with her Ascension at the well, which attuned her to the power, it made her a desirable candidate for the Vessel. RoW I-2: RoW ch 112: HoA Epilogue epigraphs:

It's possible, however nobody, not even Vasher or Hoid, know how to convert Stormlight/Towerlight into Breaths, which is the easiest way of using a different type of investiture for Awakening.

In conjunction with this from chapter 21: And the fact that it is not mentioned that the characters feel nicrosil stores diminishing when using the medallions. There is also this WoB: that again suggests that nicrosil part of the medallions doesn't perceptibly diminish with use - as that of the Bands seems to. I believe Malwish medallions only grant Feruchemical powers, the Bands also are a medallion like this that gives only Feruchemy, where the nicrosil portion acts like a Coppermind. What's happening with Allomancy granted by the Bands is that they are stored as normal attribute in an Nicrosilmind, just like weight or heat is stored. You're using Feruchemical nicrosil given by the Bands to tap the Nicrosilmind and get Allomancy, which is not stored like memories, but like other attributes and thus can run out. So the Bands would run out of Allomancy fully, but would still grant Feruchemical powers (they can't run out), however in TLM all metalminds were drained so they were just empty, giving you powers you can't used. It would take all Mistings to store their powers in the Bands (like Wax stores his weight) to refill the Bands with Allomancy. At least that's how I think it works. The Bands are therefore a medallion that grants all 16 Feruchemical powers, in which all Allomantic powers were stored using normal Feruchemical nicrosil granted by the Bands.

I doubt it. Odium would be aware of this - it's his perpendicularity after all and he made a great effort trying to recapture it. Also Ishar and Mishram use it to Ascend to Odium's power, they might have felt something else hiding there. Moreover, we saw how Shardic presence within a perpendicularity affects the Physical Realm - investiture of that Shard starts leaking around it. There was a black Mist around Preservation's perpendicularity, there would be a new type of investiture around Odium's perpendicularity and it would be obvious it's not of three known Shards to anyone looking at it. Perpendicularity on its own leaks investiture into the surrounding area (like Endowment's shardpool leaks investiture that feeds the jungle on Nalthis) so the investiture used by Chasmfieds for their transformation is Odium's investiture leaking from his perpendicularity, not some hidden Shard's one. HoA ch 14 epigraphs:

In terms of raw power, they are equal. In terms of experience, they are more or less equal (both recently Ascended), with a slight advantage given to Taravangian who can access the pool of knowledge Rayse had, which includes lessons like "Splintering Shards 101." In terms of actions, Retribution has an advantage. His Shards are not in conflict between themselves yet (but there is some slight opposition from Honor that he felt) and he's really fresh to the whole Vessel thing, so he's very unaffected by Shardic Intent right now. This might change, but I highly doubt he would become like Sazed. Sazed holds two Shards in total opposition to each other, constantly in conflict and because of that has a really hard time acting at all. This might change if Sazed turns into Discord, but right now Retribution has the upper hand. However, Taravangian might not know how limited Sazed is in reality, which might be an advantage Sazed currently has - for a short while. He will learn it soon.

She left and was replaced by Nightwatcher. Nightwatcher was made out of Night, just like the Stormfather was made out of Wind, but the Wind still exists and so does the Night. WaT ch 21:

Twinborn aren't because of Harmony, they happen because of mixing and diluting Feruchemical genes with Allomantic. Ferrings did appear before Catacendre, but were extremely rare. The other factor is that radiant orders were created to mimic the heralds. Despite gaining a new herald I don't think a new order will form as they were mainly taking the place of Jerizen. The other caveat to this is enlightened surgebinders. Is an enlightened truthwatcher still considered a truthwatcher or as enlightened spren become more common will they be considered their own separate order of radiant? Only time will tell I suppose. Because of this WoB and some others I think we won't see new Radiants anytime soon. Radiants were created by formalization of Oaths and Bonds by Ishar - it's not just about bonding a spren. Without Ishar doing some changes and some new types of sentient spren (there are sentient Voidspren, they might be capable of giving Surges), there won't be any new orders. But we will see more Voidbinding for sure (which is what Renaring and Rlain are doing, they are accessing the "Void" of Illumination instead of normal Surge) as new Enlighten Spren arise. They are still considered as Radiants, but just a little different. She is, her spren were left on Roshar and are still Splinters of Cultivation capable of granting a Radiant bond with Surges. Surgebinding was of both Honor and Cultivation because they've created 10 types of sapient spren together (one is pure Cultivation).

I highly doubt it because from the realmatic point of view, Ashyn, Braize and Roshar are the same place. Moreover, she already was on Ashyn, she visited it once and most of the magic on Ashyn is Cultivation-based. When Odium arrived on Ashyn, it was very visible to Tanavast and Kor, Cultivation fleeing to Ashyn would be as good as staying on Roshar - she would be dead already.

The names Harmony and Discord refer to how the two Shards of Ruin and Preservation are interacting with each other while held by Sazed. When they work together, they are Harmony, when they don't, they are Discord. It's not necessarily about war and conflict in the whole Cosmere, it's about conflict between two Shards in Sazed. How would Nightblood even do this? He's powerful, but nowhere near the infinite power of a Shard. At most he can kill a Vessel, which he did in RoW, but a Vessel himself is less investiture than an Unmade and could be trapped in a gemstone. That's nothing. Nightblood can't really corrupt a Vessel like he is able to do with people who want to use him for evil purposes. Not really, at least nothing significant. He might have some Connection to Ruin as he contains his investiture (likely through his Command being Destroy, he corrupts all investiture he eats into Ruin's investiture, but we don't know this). He ate a tiny bit of Odium's investiture when he was already almost full, corrupted it and spit it out as a black smoke. It shouldn't influence him, investiture is just a food to him.

At this point they all knew it. In OB ch 79, during the Kholinar siege, Kaladin killed one Fused by striking his gemheart, but back then he didn't know about them. However, I think they were talking about that somewhere in books, maybe with Rlain, if not they talked about it off-screen since OB. OB ch 120:

Vessels can influence the name of their Shards. Sazed chose the name Harmony because it felt right to him and because in harmony both parts are working together. In balance they don't need to work together, they are just equal, which actually is not the case for Harmony as there is more Ruin in him than Preservation (just as it was previously) because Leras invested more of himself into people. If he wouldn't have been able to control those Shards properly, he would have been Discord. SA spoilers:

In was in OB ch 43. But yes, it happened. I'm not really claiming it will be easy, I'm just exploring this possibility. If spiking Connection to Odium out of Fused is enough to permanently kill them (for which I don't see any opposing opinions, so I think we all agree on this), then Scadrians potentially have a very cheap way to threaten Fused existence. Obviously it won't be easy, it will be hard, the whole process of figuring this out will take some time and having the opportunity to spike a Fused won't happen often, but it's a possibility worth exploring. We don't know what Rashek knew about Hemalurgy, he was unable to create another Hemalurgic construct, but this is way harder to do than what I propose. Creating a new construct is a two step process - you need to steal proper attributes and you need to plant them in a proper way. Here we just need one thing - steal Connection. We know what we're stealing (everyone who has some basic knowledge of Hemalurgy will know that duralumin is used to steal Connection, that's not a secret), we know what we want to achieve (intent), we only need to figure out where to place a spike to steal it. I bet it's through the heart as almost all things are stolen this way. A human heart has 4 binding points, it takes just 4 tries to figure out where to place it. Of course, as it was said before, Singers aren't humans. But that's not a problem, just experiment on prisoners of war, dissect their bodies and gain the knowledge of where exactly you need to place your spike to steal Connection. Even better, examine Fused dead bodies - you will gain knowledge on what's their internal organ placement, which you can then combine with what you've learned from experiments on Singers. At every step of this process use an Oracle who will gain an intuitive feeling of where to place the spike, maybe even boosted by a Nicroburst. It will take some time to run through all of those experiments and figure this out, but I don't think stealing Connection would be that complicated once the Basin decides to use Hemalurgy. They can even use the Set's scientists for that, I bet they would be eager to return to their experiments on legal terms and they have experience they can share. Using this in combat will be troublesome, that's obvious. I'm not suggesting that this will be some wonder weapon that will turn the tides of war, it will be just another tool to use against Roshar. Oracles, Steelruners, Thugs, Sliders or some other Metalborns could be used to do this. They won't be successful every time of course, but they might slowly start permanently killing Fused. Maybe they could even develop a spike gun, but that's another discussion. This is a great idea. Artillery shooting on full auto would be scary as hell. Expensive, but very brutal. The whole aviation industry was 10 years old when WW 1 started, nobody had any experience in doing any of this stuff, but they gained it through practice and organized and effective air force. The Basin would be in the very same position and if things worked out on Earth, they will work out on Scadrial too. Of course. They would still need training, but would already know half of what's needed to be a soldier. They can be used, not even for combat but also for some other task, as trainers, officers, military police, for logistics and lots of other stuff. They can also assist the army, rather than join it. There is a lot of things trained police officers could do during a war and they would certainly be a valuable tool for Scadrial. Also, this isn't my idea, this is Varlance's idea. TLM ch 38: Even if Roshar won't unite, I doubt Scadrial would be able to win the war against Retribution's side of Roshar. That's way too big an area to control and Rosharans won't have to worry about dealing with supply lines through time dilation bubble, so they would have basically unlimited investiture and almost instant rebirth for Fused/Regals. They would win on defence with no problems (not to mention that Scadrial isn't capable of any offensive war right now and to be fair neither is Roshar, a fact which we all ignore for the sake of this topic). On the other hand time dilation will once again favor Scadrians, as the fight on Roshar would be in a huge time slowing bubble, so large that they would be almost motionless. That means Scadrian would be great at supplying and reinforcing their troops, so good that from Rosharan perspective new soldiers and supply would basically appear out of nowhere every few days, while in fact Scadrians spent months on their home planet preparing all of this. Plus it will take just a few months of fighting for new powerful weapons and technology to appear on a battlefield, while in reality years would have passed on Scadrial giving them lots of time to learn and progress. Still, while this is a huge advantage, I doubt it's enough to win the war on Roshar.

I doubt a weak bond would give powers, it has to be relatively strong to get into the spirit web. SA:

It looks like a Bondsmith thing only. I'm still not very convinced by this. Until we have numbers from Brandon, this is just pure speculation. I meant that yes, it's a good baseline, but they will run out of Stormlight much faster than a golem would out of Dor. By nukes I meant Trellium-Harmonium bombs - they do the same thing minus radiation. However they've already developed everything, bombs were proven to work, even if Avatar helped, the hard work was done. They can recreate them without any help from Telsin/Autonomy now. That's fine, but I think if the war between Scadrial and Roshar were to last long enough, planes would appear quite fast. USA wasn't really into planes back then. Germany with 65 mil people produced 48k while being blockaded, France with 40 mil produced 67k. The Basin can produce thousands of planes per year. Aluminum bullets aren't pure aluminum either, yet they are fully immune to Steelpushing. Any aluminum alloy behaves like pure aluminum: So easily that anti-light was used only twice in WaT by Odium or Radiant forces? And only by Vyre? Don't get me wrong, I also think that anti-light should be easily produced, but the book seems to suggest otherwise. And they need Raysium for that, now there is no Odium, there's Retribution. We don't know where Raysium came from, but most likely it won't be produced anymore. The fact that the Set actually considered using rockets till the very last moment seems to suggest that they've already solved the problem with the electric current. Anything that gives you a peer into the Spiritual Realm helps you with Hemalurgy - burning electrum does just that. It would help. I'm not suggesting creating new Hemalurgic constructs, just spiking out Fused Connection to Odium. That's something that they already know is possible, the Hemalurgic table specify that duralumin can steal Connection and those people mentioned by me (plus Marsh) know enough to experiment more and figure it out fast enough to be useful during the war. Marsh did. He spiked Penrod while they were fighting. Inquisitors were almost able to spike Eland. Of course it won't be easy, but it's still possible to do. I'm not suggesting that suddenly on day 1 every Fused gets spiked. I did say that Scadrial won't be able to conquer Roshar in my very first post. I think we have to take time dilation into account, otherwise this topic is almost no different than the last one. That's the biggest change that happened on Roshar, which will dramatically influence the war. We can either assume that the war would last just a few Scadrian years and thus only minor technological development happens, or this will be a war spanning through decades and Scadrial would progress just as Earth progressed since the beginning of WW 1 (since Scadrial is an analog to Earth). Rosharan progress is unfortunately much harder to predict, especially that we don't even know how everything that happened affected technology. However, due to time dilation only months or years would pass on Roshar and we already know how Roshar progressed in this timeframe from books. I doubt Fused have faster reflexes on such a close distance than a bullet speed. One bullet hitting a gemstone (which of course isn't guaranteed, but the fact they appear as light when teleporting would help a lot in aiming, Kaladin was able to track it with no problems) is a kill shot. And every healing drains them out of Warlight which they need to teleport, they won't always risk doing this if their enemy is expecting them. I didn't mean that they would break Tension, but bullets would rip through their belts, damaging them, which would cause tensile force to snap them in half as they are now much weaker. And they can't be healed because aluminum is stuck in the wound. I don't agree. Any other Fused is easily cut by a normal sword, including the Deepest Ones. I don't think the Focused Ones would be even more resilient because of their investiture outside of what we've seen. WW 1 was mostly stationary (on the west), but that doesn't mean that motion didn't happen. Assaults happened, cavalry charges happened, tanks happened. Artillery was easily targeting moving targets - calculations are the very core of using artillery. Scadrial has a lot of high urban environment, which would be a factor. Which are useless against modern guns. Go ahead and charge with a pike square against a machine gun nest. Sure, Fused or Skybreakers would be trying to destroy it, Scadrians would try counter that and protect their position, they can imply movable machine guns - at the end of the day you'll end up with dozens of killed Scadrians and a dead pike square. Numbers mean nothing if they use spears and swords. I specifically said in an urban environment. Metals are everywhere there. On a battlefield there would be also a lot of metal form cartridges, bullets, shrapnels, wires and all that stuff. Yeah, but they don't really maneuver with such acceleration to be worried about g-forces. Radiants do. One was killed by Nightblood. In WaT when reporting that Fused are moving against the Shattered Plains they said "there is one Thunderclast, possibly both." There are only two left. As for regeneration, you're right, the book said something like that - but it also said it's about hurting its body. Also on the other hand the Thunderclast banished by Renarin in OB did not come back immediately so there is something that prevents them from being reborn right after their first death. WaT ch 81: Except they can't spawn next to artillery because they need a suitable ground for it - uncovered natural rock. Scadrial isn't Roshar, there is soil on the ground, not rocks. Thunderclast can't spawn in soil. They can't even spawn in cobblestone. They would not find many places in which they can spawn on Scadrial, definitely not right next to an artillery battery. WaT ch 82: You're aiming at the light all the time? Kaladin did that often and that discouraged Lezien from appearing near him. Once a Husk One grabs a Leecher, they will suddenly all stop doing this risky maneuver. It's quiet on Roshar, but Metallic Arts deal with less power than Surgebinding. If Seeking detects Feruchemy, I think it's possible it would detect Lightweaving. How many functional Fused are there? 2000? Sure they can be used like that, but they can't be used everywhere where a machine gun is. Plus there would be multiple positions overlapping each other - they would be shot from behind when trying to deal with one nest. You can also employ other tactics to make Fused life harder like aluminum bullets. Sure Fused will work, but it's not an ultimate solution that will win the war. It will be a bloody struggle and rope pushing back and forth. They would be killed by guns before getting close enough to make their lightning effective. Caparace or steel plates are useless against rifles and machine guns. Hand guns are a last resort weapon. There would be way more trenches, machine gun nests or artillery batteries than 2000 Fused can reasonably counter. Not to mention that they don't have infinite Warlight and due to time dilation their supply of investiture would be extremely low on Scadrial. Yes, I agree Fused are effective against entrenched positions, but there is too little of them to make those positions ineffective. It would be a bloodbath for sure. And Fused will have to also deal with Metalborn, so that's another factor that distracts them, which would leave their regular troop on the mercy of thousands of bullets shot per minute. Can Deepest Ones move in soil? They can't move through wood. Aluminum also blocks them and they can always use it to stop Deepest Ones. Just building a wooden platform beneath their feet would nullify the Deepest Ones attacks. Again, that's just one person. This is not enough. You need competent command and officer structure. Even generals and officers with a ton of experience from previous wars were struggling to adapt to the ever changing nature of WW 1 and 2 and you want me to believe that someone from the sword and spear era will adapt well to guns they've never seen before? That's true, however they are familiar with Metalborn powers and much of Surgebinding is not that far off (and they play by the same rules - they need investiture). Both sides can use that to predict and develop new strategies against enemy invested units. They'd changed tactics, but the core formation - war pairs - did not change at all. Tactics are different from formation. The begining of WW 1, not the entire war. In the very first days of WW 1. That's a catapult not artillery. Rocks they throw don't have a range of several kilometers and they don't explode, not to mention the density of fire. This is incomparable. Because aluminum swords are useless... They don't use it because they have no means of delivering that aluminum to the body of their enemy and leaving it behind. Maybe some arrows and bolts, but making them on a massive scale would be hard with technology present on Roshar and the rarity of aluminum. That's kind of an AA gun. Not the best one, but it's a start. Sure, Fused and Skybreakers can fly higher, but if they want to go lower, they would be exposed to those guns. Plus machine guns can be used as well. They have conscription plans and trained constables. With trains, mass conscription would be executed quickly and guns allow for a very fast training compared to what you need to train with swords, spears and medieval tactics and formations that Roshar has. Scadrial can muster a large force of soldiers very fast, way quicker than Roshar (especially if you consider time dilation which basically prevents Roshar from replacing their losses). Yes, that's what is happening. This is draining them out of light quite fast. Those were only the guns Daal spotted and were mostly a propaganda piece. True, that's why I believe it would be a bloody war for both sides.

Atium can steal any power. I doubt Marsh wants to become a Fullborn. He knows how dangerous they are, that Sazed is afraid of them and Marsh is a nice guy who wants to atone for all the damages he'd done while being under Ruin's control. Edit: And just like with his F-Atium spike, he probably got his F-duralumin from a spike taken out of dead Inquisitors whom Ruin gave that spike.

It's not about Harmony, it's not about Balance, it's just mixing both Ruin and Preservation. Invested Arts arise because of interactions between Shards and the world they invested in. When two or more Shards settle on one planet, interaction between them causes several Invested Arts to manifest, one ending up being a kind of merger of both powers, a balanced system created from both Shards.

No, nothing suggested that Daal was a Ghostblood. In Epilogue 4 Kelsier said that Lerasium and Hemalurgy didn't work on him, but he didn't mentioned the Bands at all in the entire TLM. I can' remember a quote like this and I can't find it. TLM Epilogue 4: I don't think aluminum can fully suppress bonds, but maybe.