Quick Fix Game 69: Dark One: Too Light

[Stick. she/her]

Just now, Ookla of Ravens said:

why?

he thinks only mafia can double their vote, and has only talked about mech thus far. wet sock energy if you ask me

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

Just now, Stick. said:

he thinks only mafia can double their vote, and has only talked about mech thus far. wet sock energy if you ask me

ah, that makes sense. honestly, i still think its likely that kas is elim because to be completely honest, he was just so fast out of the gate, and people can say things, no?

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

ah, that makes sense. honestly, i still think its likely that kas is elim because to be completely honest, he was just so fast out of the gate, and people can say things, no?

Tbh that's pretty bad reasoning on at least two levels but I don't care to talk you out of it.

If you really, genuinely feel I am Elim, go ahead and vote for me. That's the point of your vote - it's the 'no I want u dead' button that only you get to push. It's your biggest superpower so use it wisely, and part of it in my view does involve following your heart or your considerations rather than anyone else's. Obviously think it through etc. because Village discussion matters but if you think you are right, then go for it.

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

Tbh that's pretty bad reasoning on at least two levels but I don't care to talk you out of it.

If you really, genuinely feel I am Elim, go ahead and vote for me. That's the point of your vote - it's the 'no I want u dead' button that only you get to push. It's your biggest superpower so use it wisely, and part of it in my view does involve following your heart or your considerations rather than anyone else's. Obviously think it through etc. because Village discussion matters but if you think you are right, then go for it.

point taken, im not hitting the button yet.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ookla of Ravens

[Stick. she/her]

7 minutes ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

ah, that makes sense. honestly, i still think its likely that kas is elim because to be completely honest, he was just so fast out of the gate, and people can say things, no?

could be!! but based off personal experience im leaning against that possibility atm. appreciate your thoughts tho

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Tbh that's pretty bad reasoning on at least two levels but I don't care to talk you out of it.

elaborate pls 

[Kasimir he/him]

5 hours ago, Stick. said:

could be!! but based off personal experience im leaning against that possibility atm. appreciate your thoughts tho

elaborate pls 

Personal level — I've had aggressive Village games where I'm fast to vote if I'm on at game start. No idea about maf games because I scrubbed them from memory. Sure they're usually couched in RP and less blatant but.

Strategic level — Village always needs to get off arse and vote. I've written posts on this (we were all young and angry once) that have been embarrassingly cited way too many times which I don't fully agree with anymore but that lay out this reasoning in further detail and that’s one reason I don't want to get into it. Village cannot afford in general to sit and wait and players that do tend to do so indebted to the early flurry of activity and pressure.

Tactical level — as you pointed out and it's a counterpoint to Raven, bad Elim tactics. Agreed that people can say whatever but Raven's not made the second move yet which is what people do matters more because it shows their tactical priorities. Doing lies less than saying. This is diluted by the fact that if E!me screwed up, then E!me screwed up, but it'd still be tactically bad to burn the vote that early. 

Why I didn't care to go into it:

-Typing sucks

-This is an early game for Raven and I don’t want to discourage him from exploring or committing to his suspicions

-I don't want to talk meta at this stage, also see earlier point

EDIT:

I guess you could also point out there's the third level which is where you learn to compare what they do TO what they say but that's a new heuristic level I’m sparing my wrist from.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Kasimir
justification

[Stick. she/her]

12 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Personal level — I've had aggressive Village games where I'm fast to vote if I'm on at game start. No idea about maf games because I scrubbed them from memory. Sure they're usually couched in RP and less blatant but.

Strategic level — Village always needs to get off arse and vote. I've written posts on this (we were all young and angry once) that have been embarrassingly cited way too many times which I don't fully agree with anymore but that lay out this reasoning in further detail and that’s one reason I don't want to get into it. Village cannot afford in general to sit and wait and players that do tend to do so indebted to the early flurry of activity and pressure.

Tactical level — as you pointed out and it's a counterpoint to Raven, bad Elim tactics. Agreed that people can say whatever but Raven's not made the second move yet which is what people do matters more because it shows their tactical priorities. Doing lies less than saying. This is diluted by the fact that if E!me screwed up, then E!me screwed up, but it'd still be tactically bad to burn the vote that early. 

Why I didn't care to go into it:

-Typing sucks

-This is an early game for Raven and I don’t want to discourage him from exploring or committing to his suspicions

-I don't want to talk meta at this stage, also see earlier point

EDIT:

I guess you could also point out there's the third level which is where you learn to compare what they do TO what they say but that's a new heuristic level I’m sparing my wrist from.

thanks. @Ookla of Ravens what do you think of this response?

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

10 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Personal level — I've had aggressive Village games where I'm fast to vote if I'm on at game start. No idea about maf games because I scrubbed them from memory. Sure they're usually couched in RP and less blatant but.

Strategic level — Village always needs to get off arse and vote. I've written posts on this (we were all young and angry once) that have been embarrassingly cited way too many times which I don't fully agree with anymore but that lay out this reasoning in further detail and that’s one reason I don't want to get into it. Village cannot afford in general to sit and wait and players that do tend to do so indebted to the early flurry of activity and pressure.

Tactical level — as you pointed out and it's a counterpoint to Raven, bad Elim tactics. Agreed that people can say whatever but Raven's not made the second move yet which is what people do matters more because it shows their tactical priorities. Doing lies less than saying. This is diluted by the fact that if E!me screwed up, then E!me screwed up, but it'd still be tactically bad to burn the vote that early. 

Why I didn't care to go into it:

-Typing sucks

-This is an early game for Raven and I don’t want to discourage him from exploring or committing to his suspicions

-I don't want to talk meta at this stage, also see earlier point

EDIT:

I guess you could also point out there's the third level which is where you learn to compare what they do TO what they say but that's a new heuristic level I’m sparing my wrist from.

i think its a good argument.

[Aeoryi she/her]

6 hours ago, Stick. said:

i just checked your alignment in the one you linked to mat (town) and i read a couple of arbitrary bits of a recent MR where you+devo were elims and iirc a self vote occurred there 

 

going to be abusing emojis now probably that we can use them on the shard 

 

Ok, im interested to hear what youve gathered off it this game - mat and i both reacted to your vote. What have you gauged off our responses? I have thoughts about mat's reaction but id first like to hear what you think

 

Edit:

im also mildly worried that your playstyle, from what i see, is one im bound to scumread regardless, so im grilling you here a bit to partly get a better grasp of your alignment 

1. Your reaction shows an absurd amount more effort. I'd have to check, but that could be a WiM sign.

2. Mat seems very eager to jump on to what you say. I do know he hates self-voting however. Mildly fishy imo, but not enough to warrant a ghost vote 

3. What's a scumread?

 

[JNV]

Hi Im here um honestly not sure what even to talk about without the flurry of random poke votes at the start anyway I kinda want to vote Aeoryi in protest but I wont cause it feels a bit mean 

1 minute ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

3. What's a scumread?

Scums the Mafia Unverse term for elims so a scumread is an elimread

[Aeoryi she/her]

4 minutes ago, JNV said:

Hi Im here um honestly not sure what even to talk about without the flurry of random poke votes at the start anyway I kinda want to vote Aeoryi in protest but I wont cause it feels a bit mean 

Scums the Mafia Unverse term for elims so a scumread is an elimread

Imagine I get wagoned by my own vote 

[---]

51 posts, but not a lot said

10 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Aeoryi/Ookla the Resolute

I-

9 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I've explained why self voting is a good thing in my (worst) game Here, where I've linked the comment.

Self voting is not a good thing in most scenarios and definitely not in this game.

Your second point /is/ true which is why sometimes in /normal/ voting rules games, self voting can be strategic. Only when you are able to move your vote off though, and not really in small games where the biggest wagons will normally be 3 or 4 votes.

I normally associate that strategy with Elims even though there's never any evidence for that, but self voting when your wagon is growing is a way (valid way? idk) sometimes to get votes off of you. Switching off of your wagon to the second wagon - normally when people aren't paying full attention - will make it look like people are switching off of your wagon and defecting to a different one because it affects the numbers more drastically.

Sometimes people won't want to vote you because you're self-voting and it might be seen as village

None of the valid reasonings for self voting seriously though are in village's best interests, because they all revolve around self preservation or controlling the wagons.

And I say this as someone who has self-voted at some of the most inappropriate times as a villager :P.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Aeoryi/Ookla the Resolute

I

11 hours ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Nah, it’s NAI. Forgetting the rules isn’t indicative of anything here. He beat me to this correction though.

Forgetting rules isn't AI and I'm not going to just never think about Kas again because of it, but more likely that Elims would know to not vote because they need to watch to self pres if necessary, though it seems Stick has already talked about that briefly. Sure they can switch their vote but it's only once and to use that on D1 would be wasteful.

--

Right now I'm wanting to kill between Aeyori and Matrim.

They're probably not teamed because of Aeyori's "Matrim can tell you the backstory" but that's not a big thing, and Matrim's reaction to Aeyori's vote doesn't really match with how Aeyori seemed to think he would respond, if that makes any sense.

Intent to vote Matrim moreso

[Aeoryi she/her]

7 minutes ago, Ooklil the Wei said:

51 posts, but not a lot said

I-

Self voting is not a good thing in most scenarios and definitely not in this game.

Your second point /is/ true which is why sometimes in /normal/ voting rules games, self voting can be strategic. Only when you are able to move your vote off though, and not really in small games where the biggest wagons will normally be 3 or 4 votes.

I normally associate that strategy with Elims even though there's never any evidence for that, but self voting when your wagon is growing is a way (valid way? idk) sometimes to get votes off of you. Switching off of your wagon to the second wagon - normally when people aren't paying full attention - will make it look like people are switching off of your wagon and defecting to a different one because it affects the numbers more drastically.

Sometimes people won't want to vote you because you're self-voting and it might be seen as village

None of the valid reasonings for self voting seriously though are in village's best interests, because they all revolve around self preservation or controlling the wagons.

And I say this as someone who has self-voted at some of the most inappropriate times as a villager :P.

I

Forgetting rules isn't AI and I'm not going to just never think about Kas again because of it, but more likely that Elims would know to not vote because they need to watch to self pres if necessary, though it seems Stick has already talked about that briefly. Sure they can switch their vote but it's only once and to use that on D1 would be wasteful.

--

Right now I'm wanting to kill between Aeyori and Matrim.

They're probably not teamed because of Aeyori's "Matrim can tell you the backstory" but that's not a big thing, and Matrim's reaction to Aeyori's vote doesn't really match with how Aeyori seemed to think he would respond, if that makes any sense.

Intent to vote Matrim moreso

Yeah

I'm not going to try and salvage this, but just saying don't self-vote in a game where you can't unvote

It did kickstart a bit of discussion however, so I guess it wasn't 100% terrible

        I should've totally doubled my vote

[---]

Do you have thoughts on people's alignments based off their discussion around your self-vote, Aeoryi?

[Aeoryi she/her]

5 minutes ago, Ooklil the Wei said:

Do you have thoughts on people's alignments based off their discussion around your self-vote, Aeoryi?

Stick is probably v I don't know how they play when e but they're probably v

Mat I'm leaning N- 

Same with Kas, really. 

JNV is more of a N

Uh yeah

[---]

Matrim/Ravens is where I want to vote atm

EDIT:

I just want to see my posts merge

EDIT EDIT:

Nice.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ooklil the Wei

[Aeoryi she/her]

16 minutes ago, Ooklil the Wei said:

Matrim/Ravens is where I want to vote atm

EDIT:

I just want to see my posts merge

EDIT EDIT:

Nice.

I'm not sure what an e!Raven would have playstyle wise. Anyways, VC stands at:

Quote

VC (Real votes are in bold)

Aeoryi (2): Aeoryi, Mat

Stick (1): Kasmir

Raven (1): Illwei

Mat (1): Illwei

 

[---]

i'm super powerful i have two votes

[Aeoryi she/her]

I have effectively 0

[---]

EDIT:

Aeoryi where did you get your name because it's giving elantris and anime girl at the same time

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Ooklil the Wei said:

EDIT:

Aeoryi where did you get your name because it's giving elantris and anime girl at the same time

I made it myself.

Nice edit btw

[---]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I made it myself.

Nice edit btw

no but like how did you make it

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, Ooklil the Wei said:

no but like how did you make it

Used a keyboard

Spoiler

Idk honestly I have no rememberable of how I made it

 

[Mat he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

And now for something completely different!

Mat: ?????

That’s the opposite of completely different, you read me light village with a heavy ????? every single D1 lol

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

2. Mat seems very eager to jump on to what you say. I do know he hates self-voting however. Mildly fishy imo, but not enough to warrant a ghost vote 

Because I agreed with one of Stick’s points? I think you’re misusing the word ‘fishy’ here.

Mixed vibes from Aeoryi. They seem weirder than before but it’s hard to tell after elimming with them. Definitely not getting the strong v vibes I got from them two games again though. But it is early. The main thing stopping me here is the self vote but I have firsthand experience with their reckless e play, so there you go :P. If the cycle ended right now I’d vote them I think.

Illwei feels village so far but iirc I was horrible at reading them so /shrug

I like the questions Stick is posing but I trust nothing 

I’m seeing a lot of statements and reads being made in a state of ignorance (such as Raven reading Kas e) which makes the last four pages feel largely like fluff.

[---]

Whats your experience with Aeoryi before and how does it compare?

I relate to the last pages feeling like fluff.