Quick Fix Game 69: Dark One: Too Light

[Kasimir he/him]

5 minutes ago, JNV said:

I stared at the player list for a bit and my brain said its definitely a Stick Illwei team and I asked my brain for any justification for this and well I trsut you and Ravens kind of helter skelter new player panic and then like if I narrow that then like Matrim teams dont cohere I mean I guess Im kinda letting Raven off the hook here and theres always the possibility Matrim and unknown other just like planned to make Matrim look alone and sad so that might come back to bite me but yeah theres my thoughts

In what sense don't Mat teams cohere?

[JNV]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

In what sense don't Mat teams cohere?

Well like my brain kinda immediately tossed Raven out the window so then its like Matrim with Stick or Illwei the two people who voted them and forced them to pop their double charge like it wouldntve been hard to just vote elsewhere get the easy misvote C1 and coordinate double votes the next time like that just seems easier

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, JNV said:

Well like my brain kinda immediately tossed Raven out the window so then its like Matrim with Stick or Illwei the two people who voted them and forced them to pop their double charge like it wouldntve been hard to just vote elsewhere get the easy misvote C1 and coordinate double votes the next time like that just seems easier

Yeah. For Mat partners I think Illwei is the only coherent one there - I could see a distancing vote that went down as Stick spent most of the Turn engaging with Raven and TKN, then Stick unexpectedly glommed onto Mat, forcing Mat to self-pres onto Aeo and also double-vote. Mat/Stick feels more unnecessary. Not out of Stick's E!range, but not my intuitive team.

I guess I'm agreeing with you anyway.

Edited to add:

Tbf Stick did some Aeo engagement too - it's the TKN and Raven ones I feel eh about.

Come to think of it, have Stick and Illwei actually had much in-thread interaction at all?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Stick. she/her]

I’m not an elim simply because you can’t make a viable team with me in it:

- I wouldn’t have forced my teammate mat to use his double vote when I had made grounds to vote Raven there yesterday. So can’t be teamed with Mat

- was going to vote Raven. Cant be teamed with Raven. 

- was blindsided by illwei’s vote. Too disorganised to be teamed.

- kas is prob village so can’t be e/e with him lol

- guess could be teamed with JNV. if you’re looking for e!me worlds then me+JNV is your team.

Im pretty sure mat is one. Second could be ravens if they acted on impulse SoD today without consulting, but could also just be JNV. JNV+Illwei is another team, since I doubt Illwei is with ravens due to shade directed there during c1 but I’ll have to check how serious that was. 
 

what is this @Ookla the Destined? You’re saying one elim in 5 people out of 8 that signed up. Seriously?  that’s just statistics and doesn’t sound like a real legacy to me. 

 

@Ookla of Ravens can you answer my question from yesterday? What takes were you referring to when you said there were takes you felt were easily refuted that you’re sticking with. 

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Stick. said:

- was going to vote Raven. Cant be teamed with Raven. 

I'm curious why you and Illwei both think that's a thing. Materially, you have one vote. 'Was going to' doesn't cut it - you can sus anyone you like as you only need vote on one of them by EoD and then lock-in. Is this something you can explain more?

5 minutes ago, Stick. said:

Im pretty sure mat is one. Second could be ravens if they acted on impulse SoD today without consulting, but could also just be JNV. JNV+Illwei is another team, since I doubt Illwei is with ravens due to shade directed there during c1 but I’ll have to check how serious that was. 

What's your view on the robustness of JNV's disengagement V!meta?

[Stick. she/her]

Actually. @Ookla the Destined thoughts on a kas/Illwei team? If you’re village then that is probably the team exactly.

 

Kas about your first question, this is a set up where the optimal elim strategy is to v-lock your partner early sod1 and work from there. Bussing is extremely suboptimal, and throwing shade at a partner is extremely suboptimal. Talking about this set up in particular. 
 

My view on JNV is that it’s very easy to temporarily break out of meta like that. Though I’ll admit I didn’t look at JNV at all last cycle because of the meta argument.

[Kasimir he/him]

23 minutes ago, Stick. said:

Kas about your first question, this is a set up where the optimal elim strategy is to v-lock your partner early sod1 and work from there. Bussing is extremely suboptimal, and throwing shade at a partner is extremely suboptimal. Talking about this set up in particular. 

Which is where I think you and an Illwei team works just fine.

I'm not sure throwing shade here is, to quote you, "extremely suboptimal" since again, you need not vote on the partner. Lock-in and EoD madness are wonderful excuses given E!you would know this game has exactly two cycles if a tie is averted. Where the hell are you going to be held accountable? In any normal game, refusing to vote or follow your suspicions is a problem. In a game like this, there's no bluff-calling at lylo. It's do or die.

Ngl the breadth with which your proposed teams shifting here makes me feel you're just shopping around for a convenient way to split Village-side votes at this point.

23 minutes ago, Stick. said:

My view on JNV is that it’s very easy to temporarily break out of meta like that. Though I’ll admit I didn’t look at JNV at all last cycle because of the meta argument.

It's interesting to me that it's very easy to temporarily break out of meta like that, in your eyes, but not very easy to...temporarily break 'optimal' play in a game environment that has never historically played this set-up, much less cared to track for consistency.

Edited to add:

Like, what the hell? This cycle permits hammering. If that's not something that screams 'tbh I can lightly sus whoever as long as I vote on a sus not a teammate', I don't know what is since the chance you'd face heat for it is virtually zero. All of this is irrelevant anyway as I think the most likely team is you/Illwei. I don't take the seeming uncoordination point to be a big deal since with Mat and Aeo as trains, it really didn't matter where you go.

I'm going to reiterate you spent most of last cycle harping on two LHF trains. I firmly believe V!you plays better than this.

Edited to add 2:

It's doubly 'what the hell' in light of this:

Quote

im also mildly worried that your playstyle, from what i see, is one im bound to scumread regardless, so im grilling you here a bit to partly get a better grasp of your alignment 

This was you @ Aeo last cycle and ostensibly justifying you questioning Aeo, TKN, and Raven. And your answer to that was...basically to E!read the LHFs even after acknowledging it was Raven's first+ game? Yeah no not buying it.

Edited to add 3:

The throwing shade thing, to be honest, is pretty:

Spoiler

The fact this is two cycles and you get one vote lock-in means you have a freedom to sus as long as you don't vote your teammate. Short game duration and lock-in means little pressure to make good on it. Moreover, since the next cycle is lylo, you're pulling on endgame tactics by that point, which means misleading Village players and making them struggle to identify a coherent team: either vote a Villager, or split the vote, hammer, and win. You all (except Raven I suppose) know the assortment of tricks as well as I do.

I'm with Wormmon on this one.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Stick. she/her]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

I'm not sure throwing shade here is, to quote you, "extremely suboptimal" since again, you need not vote on the partner. Lock-in and EoD madness are wonderful excuses given E!you would know this game has exactly two cycles if a tie is averted. Where the hell are you going to be held accountable? In any normal game, refusing to vote or follow your suspicions is a problem. In a game like this, there's no bluff-calling at lylo. It's do or die.

i mean sure but like...why? 2 mislynches is a piece of cake with locked votes, i wouldnt risk having others back me up when i shade my partner. we've already seen this lobby is trigger happy when it comes to using their votes. it's way easier to just lock your partner v and move on.

 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Ngl the breadth with which your proposed teams shifting here makes me feel you're just shopping around for a convenient way to split Village-side votes at this point

 i call it my wolfy expansion of PoE

 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

It's interesting to me that it's very easy to temporarily break out of meta like that, in your eyes, but not very easy to...temporarily break 'optimal' play in a game environment that has never historically played this set-up, much less cared to track for consistency.

How are those two things related? Temporarily breaking meta by acting detached to the game in order to emulate one's v-meta is extremely easy AND extremely optimal. And it serves a purpose because theoretically it should get them villa-read. Breaking optimal play for ??? reasons is not that clear cut and unless you come into the thread and see your partner under heavy fire already, i dont see why the other elim should shade them.

 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

I'm going to reiterate you spent most of last cycle harping on two LHF trains. I firmly believe V!you plays better than this.

are you talking about raven? if so, i think it's very clear if you read my conversation with them that i was trying to get them into the game because it felt like they had nothing to talk about/no one to talk to, and as talked i was starting to lean villa right up until this point where i got whiplash at their weird 180 backtracking. i think my process there is pretty clear if you wanna read through it again.

If you mean aeori, i thought their behaviour was odd initially but i did chalk it up to NAI later, and acknowledged that their playstyle is inherently scummy. that should be interpreted as a signal that i probably will not be voting them. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

This was you @ Aeo last cycle and ostensibly justifying you questioning Aeo, TKN, and Raven. And your answer to that was...basically to E!read the LHFs even after acknowledging it was Raven's first+ game? Yeah no not buying it.

yeah, youve got my process all wrong. engaging with/questioning people does not automatically mean im sussing them - as a villager im way more worried about/scared of getting the more unreadable players wrong, so i will do my best to figure them out by forcing them to generate content. 

------------------------

if im being real with myself, i floated an e!you world to mat because of that TKN kill - youve admitted before that TKN has one of the more accurate reads on you. Additionally, the kill suggests elims want us to maintain the status quo. That aside, i think you were villagery d1. I think illwei makes sense as a partner to you but ive also nodded along to a bunch of illwei's takes so im not too gung ho about that world.

 

i am still leaning mat as my vote, unless he's about to obv village today. @Ookla the Destined talk to me about ravens and illwei. why was illwei so high on your c1 readslist? why was kas lower than tkn?

 

VOTE SIGNAL: MATRIM'S DICE

 

 

EDIT:

Mat, what did you mean by this? 

Quote

 If you flip v I'm not screwed, it's not as if it's die hard you or me. If they have to flip me next then so be it. But they better be prepared for lylo C3 

what are you assuming re: elim numbers? how would exeing you c2 after exeing aeori c1 bring us ot lylo in c3?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Stick.

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Stick. said:

i mean sure but like...why? 2 mislynches is a piece of cake with locked votes, i wouldnt risk having others back me up when i shade my partner. we've already seen this lobby is trigger happy when it comes to using their votes. it's way easier to just lock your partner v and move on.

Why not? Again, because it gives you insurance C2 - you can split the vote and hammer. Old tactic, works well for a reason. I think you're overestimating how gunshy everyone who wasn't Raven was. I don't count since I made a mistake C1, and Aeo's Aeo. Illwei, me, Mat would've been fairly predictable, as would TKN and JNV. Hell, you have to get TKN to vote at gunpoint.

4 minutes ago, Stick. said:

 i call it my wolfy expansion of PoE

Yep.

4 minutes ago, Stick. said:

How are those two things related? Temporarily breaking meta by acting detached to the game in order to emulate one's v-meta is extremely easy AND extremely optimal. And it serves a purpose because theoretically it should get them villa-read. Breaking optimal play for ??? reasons is not that clear cut and unless you come into the thread and see your partner under heavy fire already, i dont see why the other elim should shade them.

They're related because the only reason you can remotely sell JNV's meta break as plausible rather than possible is to appeal to the fact it's a short two cycle run. Similar deal with breaking optimal play. I'm challenging your assertion it's optimal play here because it's a difficult thread to seize control of, and distancing guarantees you a split Village into C2 for a hammer.

I am going to remind everyone that the Elim's job is to sell possibility. The Villager's job is to determine what's plausible. JNV breaking meta becomes a lot less plausible when you keep in mind they've been trying for months and failing. It becomes a bit more plausible only if you appeal to the fact this is just two cycles.

I'll also note your E!play consists a great deal in doing things "an Elim would never do" so I am going to stubbornly refuse to let you write this off - and potential you teams - "because an Elim would never do this."

7 minutes ago, Stick. said:

are you talking about raven? if so, i think it's very clear if you read my conversation with them that i was trying to get them into the game because it felt like they had nothing to talk about/no one to talk to, and as talked i was starting to lean villa right up until this point where i got whiplash at their weird 180 backtracking. i think my process there is pretty clear if you wanna read through it again.

I've read through it and I'm not convinced - I feel 180 backtracking is the hallmark of a tunnelling, new player. Why is this something so surprising to you that you've spent most of C1 making LHF passes on TKN and Raven?

8 minutes ago, Stick. said:

yeah, youve got my process all wrong. engaging with/questioning people does not automatically mean im sussing them - as a villager im way more worried about/scared of getting the more unreadable players wrong, so i will do my best to figure them out by forcing them to generate content. 

Nope, sorry. You engaged with them and proceeded to 180 on Raven, sus TKN, backed off when I asked you about that. That feels less an attempt to figure them out and more a conclusion you'd already reached.

9 minutes ago, Stick. said:

if im being real with myself, i floated an e!you world to mat because of that TKN kill - youve admitted before that TKN has one of the more accurate reads on you. Additionally, the kill suggests elims want us to maintain the status quo. That aside, i think you were villagery d1. I think illwei makes sense as a partner to you but ive also nodded along to a bunch of illwei's takes so im not too gung ho about that world.

If I'm being real, one of the funny things about V!TKN that he's said for a while now and he's actually right about is that Elims tend to want to push him.

I'm gonna give everyone three guesses as to who went in on TKN C1. First two don't count.

10 minutes ago, Stick. said:

i am still leaning mat as my vote, unless he's about to obv village today. @Ookla the Destined talk to me about ravens and illwei. why was illwei so high on your c1 readslist? why was kas lower than tkn?

I am not dead sold on you, and I'm willing to be talked around, but I'm absolutely not fond of your D1, and the sense you're train-fishing now.

I don't want to hear possibilities now. Which is your top most plausible pairing?

@JNV @Ookla the Destined @Ooklil the Wei @Ookla of Ravens 

I'm still leaning Illwei/Stick for reasons I've outlined earlier - Mat endangerment makes it hard to see a partner there, Raven feels like a tunnelling Villager to me, and JNV is in V!meta. 

[Stick. she/her]

46 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I'm challenging your assertion it's optimal play here because it's a difficult thread to seize control of

really? it felt the opposite to me. no one seemed to have a clear direction c1. aeo was selfing, tkn posted twice neither post containing a single read, all mat did was case aeo when the votes were already set, illwei engaged a bit with aeo then launched a surprise attack on mat after not really having spoken with him all so much, and all ravens did was talk about you

 

and im not inclined to view ravens as a tunneled villager - looking at their process (assuming im not massively misinterpreting our c1 interaction; theyve yet to clarify), this is what i think went down in the elim doc:

ravens: im gonna sus this kas guy, gl me
elim#2: ok, hf
ravens: damn, other players think he's obv v and also he just wrote a thesis about why my argument is bad at 3 levels. guess i cant push him now. *goes into thread and posts this *
ravens: ok, hedge committed 
ravens: damn, im being asked to declare a solidified stance. guess ill say villa. * posts this *
elim#2: NOOO OMG dont do that!! villagers tend to STICK TO THEIR GUNS!!1!! you cant appear too trusting of other people's opinions or too flipfloppy, people will call you OUTED
ravens: oh ok ill say that then * posts this *
elim#2: it's kinda sus that you didnt actually vote kas after saying that
ravens: ok * makes mental note to do this when new thread is up*

 

some of that is a bit of a stretch, ill admit

EDIT:

7 hours ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Out of the three I'd vote Stick first. I gutread Illwei village, and Raven is giving me village chaos vibes despite their you vote seeming performative. But I think their post about ironically playing like an elim because they randed village is potentially clearing. With e!Stick idk who the third would be. No clear teams are appearing. That'd be too easy

Wdym by the third? also wdym by the blue bolded?

 

EDIT2:

5 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Come to think of it, have Stick and Illwei actually had much in-thread interaction at all?

Also kas it's weird you think illwei/stick is the most plausible team when you acknowledge we didnt interact in any meaningful way yesterday - because you know i like theatrics with teammates in-thread. e!me wouldnt just ignore them

Edited November 29, 2023 by Stick.

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

2 hours ago, Stick. said:

really? it felt the opposite to me. no one seemed to have a clear direction c1. aeo was selfing, tkn posted twice neither post containing a single read, all mat did was case aeo when the votes were already set, illwei engaged a bit with aeo then launched a surprise attack on mat after not really having spoken with him all so much, and all ravens did was talk about you

 

and im not inclined to view ravens as a tunneled villager - looking at their process (assuming im not massively misinterpreting our c1 interaction; theyve yet to clarify), this is what i think went down in the elim doc:

ravens: im gonna sus this kas guy, gl me
elim#2: ok, hf
ravens: damn, other players think he's obv v and also he just wrote a thesis about why my argument is bad at 3 levels. guess i cant push him now. *goes into thread and posts this *
ravens: ok, hedge committed 
ravens: damn, im being asked to declare a solidified stance. guess ill say villa. * posts this *
elim#2: NOOO OMG dont do that!! villagers tend to STICK TO THEIR GUNS!!1!! you cant appear too trusting of other people's opinions or too flipfloppy, people will call you OUTED
ravens: oh ok ill say that then * posts this *
elim#2: it's kinda sus that you didnt actually vote kas after saying that
ravens: ok * makes mental note to do this when new thread is up*

 

some of that is a bit of a stretch, ill admit

EDIT:

Wdym by the third? also wdym by the blue bolded?

 

EDIT2:

Also kas it's weird you think illwei/stick is the most plausible team when you acknowledge we didnt interact in any meaningful way yesterday - because you know i like theatrics with teammates in-thread. e!me wouldnt just ignore them

i got tied up by stuff. thats why i didnt vote.

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Why not? Again, because it gives you insurance C2 - you can split the vote and hammer. Old tactic, works well for a reason. I think you're overestimating how gunshy everyone who wasn't Raven was. I don't count since I made a mistake C1, and Aeo's Aeo. Illwei, me, Mat would've been fairly predictable, as would TKN and JNV. Hell, you have to get TKN to vote at gunpoint.

Yep.

They're related because the only reason you can remotely sell JNV's meta break as plausible rather than possible is to appeal to the fact it's a short two cycle run. Similar deal with breaking optimal play. I'm challenging your assertion it's optimal play here because it's a difficult thread to seize control of, and distancing guarantees you a split Village into C2 for a hammer.

I am going to remind everyone that the Elim's job is to sell possibility. The Villager's job is to determine what's plausible. JNV breaking meta becomes a lot less plausible when you keep in mind they've been trying for months and failing. It becomes a bit more plausible only if you appeal to the fact this is just two cycles.

I'll also note your E!play consists a great deal in doing things "an Elim would never do" so I am going to stubbornly refuse to let you write this off - and potential you teams - "because an Elim would never do this."

I've read through it and I'm not convinced - I feel 180 backtracking is the hallmark of a tunnelling, new player. Why is this something so surprising to you that you've spent most of C1 making LHF passes on TKN and Raven?

Nope, sorry. You engaged with them and proceeded to 180 on Raven, sus TKN, backed off when I asked you about that. That feels less an attempt to figure them out and more a conclusion you'd already reached.

If I'm being real, one of the funny things about V!TKN that he's said for a while now and he's actually right about is that Elims tend to want to push him.

I'm gonna give everyone three guesses as to who went in on TKN C1. First two don't count.

I am not dead sold on you, and I'm willing to be talked around, but I'm absolutely not fond of your D1, and the sense you're train-fishing now.

I don't want to hear possibilities now. Which is your top most plausible pairing?

@JNV @Ookla the Destined @Ooklil the Wei @Ookla of Ravens 

I'm still leaning Illwei/Stick for reasons I've outlined earlier - Mat endangerment makes it hard to see a partner there, Raven feels like a tunnelling Villager to me, and JNV is in V!meta. 

I could plausibly argue E!me/Stick, but that wouldnt work. i would say E!Stick/Mat

[Stick. she/her]

4 minutes ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

i got tied up by stuff. thats why i didnt vote.

I could plausibly argue E!me/Stick, but that wouldnt work. i would say E!Stick/Mat

Whyd you say you had been sticking with your e!kas read when this demonstrably wasn’t the case? 

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

Just now, Stick. said:

Whyd you say you had been sticking with your e!kas read when this demonstrably wasn’t the case? 

weirdly enough, he seems too reasonable, which i think im gonna take my vote off for him. i am of the belief that he is going to be village now. again, im new, so i dont know how people play the game. 

[Stick. she/her]

…you know what I’m gonna let u cook, not voting you today anyway 

what’s your thoughts on Illwei? 
 

Edit:

a bit weirded out by the consistent bringing up of the fact that you are new tho. This is your third game  

Edited November 29, 2023 by Stick.

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Stick. said:

Also kas it's weird you think illwei/stick is the most plausible team when you acknowledge we didnt interact in any meaningful way yesterday - because you know i like theatrics with teammates in-thread. e!me wouldnt just ignore them

If you've paid attention at all to my posts, you'll realise I got there by PoE. I also generally regard you as an Elim who is willing to break all and any rules, particularly with regard to your own meta, so in general, I don't take that to be a hard no to the possibility of that team.

If you wanna make the JNV meta point and have it be taken seriously, then I think you have to accept that the same applies to you. If you think the hardness of your teammate meta stands even in a two cycle game, then I think it's reasonable to expect the hardness of JNV's meta is equally resilient, for similar psychological reasons.

2 hours ago, Stick. said:

really? it felt the opposite to me. no one seemed to have a clear direction c1. aeo was selfing, tkn posted twice neither post containing a single read, all mat did was case aeo when the votes were already set, illwei engaged a bit with aeo then launched a surprise attack on mat after not really having spoken with him all so much, and all ravens did was talk about you

I think the point is: even if you maximally assume there are two Elims in <you, me, Illwei, Mat>, I'd assert it's difficult for the two of them to iron wall without us getting on their cases, particularly when most of us already play to strong thread control niches. I was already starting to poke at Mat and others just for whether they thought Illwei's off-the-cuff read of me was too fast.

I'd add that minimally, the fact that we're where we are right now indicates your powerwolf optimal world never obtained, since there was simply no joint front D1. This means we are compelled to look at non-interactive options or distancing options.

2 hours ago, Stick. said:

ravens: im gonna sus this kas guy, gl me
elim#2: ok, hf
ravens: damn, other players think he's obv v and also he just wrote a thesis about why my argument is bad at 3 levels. guess i cant push him now. *goes into thread and posts this *
ravens: ok, hedge committed 
ravens: damn, im being asked to declare a solidified stance. guess ill say villa. * posts this *
elim#2: NOOO OMG dont do that!! villagers tend to STICK TO THEIR GUNS!!1!! you cant appear too trusting of other people's opinions or too flipfloppy, people will call you OUTED
ravens: oh ok ill say that then * posts this *
elim#2: it's kinda sus that you didnt actually vote kas after saying that
ravens: ok * makes mental note to do this when new thread is up*

Again, keeping in mind the context that Raven is a new player, and both of you acknowledged as much, do you think this is the most plausible read of Raven's back and forth? "Villagers tend to stick to their guns" is a really weird response from pretty much any prospective E!partner in <you, me, Illwei, Mat> - you would advocate pattern-breaking on occasion, I would point out belief revision is always acceptable, oddness often more forgivable in a new player, and Mat has gotten Alpha to lean on his newness before (according to the spirits - oh wait yes I can say this directly hell yeah - cf. LG94.)

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

2 minutes ago, Stick. said:

…you know what I’m gonna let u cook, not voting you today anyway 

what’s your thoughts on Illwei? 
 

Edit:

a bit weirded out by the consistent bringing up of the fact that you are new tho. This is your third game  

2nd and a half, but yes. and by new, i mean i dont have particularly good reads at the moment. 

Illwei is acting in a simple way, which i find interesting, but im getting village from them.

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

If you've paid attention at all to my posts, you'll realise I got there by PoE. I also generally regard you as an Elim who is willing to break all and any rules, particularly with regard to your own meta, so in general, I don't take that to be a hard no to the possibility of that team.

If you wanna make the JNV meta point and have it be taken seriously, then I think you have to accept that the same applies to you. If you think the hardness of your teammate meta stands even in a two cycle game, then I think it's reasonable to expect the hardness of JNV's meta is equally resilient, for similar psychological reasons.

I think the point is: even if you maximally assume there are two Elims in <you, me, Illwei, Mat>, I'd assert it's difficult for the two of them to iron wall without us getting on their cases, particularly when most of us already play to strong thread control niches. I was already starting to poke at Mat and others just for whether they thought Illwei's off-the-cuff read of me was too fast.

I'd add that minimally, the fact that we're where we are right now indicates your powerwolf optimal world never obtained, since there was simply no joint front D1. This means we are compelled to look at non-interactive options or distancing options.

Again, keeping in mind the context that Raven is a new player, and both of you acknowledged as much, do you think this is the most plausible read of Raven's back and forth? "Villagers tend to stick to their guns" is a really weird response from pretty much any prospective E!partner in <you, me, Illwei, Mat> - you would advocate pattern-breaking on occasion, I would point out belief revision is always acceptable, oddness often more forgivable in a new player, and Mat has gotten Alpha to lean on his newness before (according to the spirits - oh wait yes I can say this directly hell yeah - cf. LG94.)

kas quit putting a target on my back lol.

[Kasimir he/him]

@Stick. - Let's say I bracket my current reads of you and everyone. Who would you sell me on?

Returning to the question I'm asking, in terms of priority, I don't care about anyone else, who is your top Elim pairing at this juncture?

Edited to add:

3 minutes ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

kas quit putting a target on my back lol.

Dude, there is no target. This is the last cycle if we screw up. You matter largely because I think Stick is a better player than to offer the read she gave of you and I don't understand her pushing you D1 to now except/unless she's Evil and looking for a target she hopes won't alienate everyone else.

tldr; look, if it's about dying, I'm happy to get shot tonight, but what we really need right now is to vote the right person or we lose. I'm convinced Stick is the right person, but I'm willing to hear her out, and part of that does involve what we both think about you.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Stick. she/her]

raincheck on that kas, i want to talk to mat first

5 minutes ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

Illwei is acting in a simple way, which i find interesting, but im getting village from them.

can you elaborate on why or is it just a gut feeling?

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

Just now, Stick. said:

raincheck on that kas, i want to talk to mat first

can you elaborate on why or is it just a gut feeling?

gut.

[Stick. she/her]

7 minutes ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

gut.

talk to me about why you suspect me? im a villager 

edit:

a wet sock energy villager but....a villager

Edited November 29, 2023 by Stick.

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

Just now, Stick. said:

talk to me about why you suspect me? im a villager 

partly because kas, and i trust them in their convictions here. they are being very vocal and are being strong in this case. you, idk, i cant describe it. just more gut.

[Kasimir he/him]

I'll say this:

Mat had a negative response to my D1 question. TKN had a positive response. Stick had an utterly bland response but one I associate with an Elim from the relevant game.

The main issue I come back to and which entirely punted me off E!Mat worlds is that it's difficult to take seriously a world in which Mat's partner thinks EoD D1 is perfectly fine. Given Stick's views on Elims distancing, I feel leaning to vote Mat on her part just tacitly commits one way or another to JNV, Raven, or me. All of whom are variously non-starters for me.

Edited to add:

K, tbh I'm gonna do one more round of reading and then I'm going to try one last crunch, work things out, vote, and go sleep. Would prefer y'all talk me out of any mistakes, but if it be this way then it be this way, best effort basis.

Dgaf, I'm not fighting painkillers to be up just so I can catch up on what the NAs are on while I'm dead tired and struggling.

Edited to add 2:

Like yeah sure I could set an alarm but these painkillers are whack and I'd rather vote than not vote at lylo and let Elims do god knows what. If I'm wrong, sodding whatever, I'm kind of done at this point.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[JNV]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I don't want to hear possibilities now. Which is your top most plausible pairing?

Its tsill Illwei Stick and honestly like Im going to be really busy today dont know how much I can get online later so hm Stick there decision made I guess 

[Stick. she/her]

is there a reason youre voting so early? timezone related?

edit:

 

....great. hate that people are just throwing votes around with talking with their suspect first? what are you guys doing.

i would request the rest of the players to please storming HOLD YOUR VOTES.

 

edit2:

first question was to kas, edit is referring to jnv

Edited November 29, 2023 by Stick.

[Kasimir he/him]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I was trying to put out one other fire and I vibe with the 'I'm busy' deal but also

On the one hand this is out of my hands now

On the other hand - I am going back to that fire first