Mid-Range Game 63: The Outcasts of Tyrian Falls

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

10 hours ago, Shining Silhouette said:

I don't think I'll be able to be online after this. See ya next cycle peeps

Smh I thought the cycle ended last night 

2 hours ago, DeTess said:

Some banter, but very little that actually means anything or seemed intended to get someone to talk more.

Banter is fun! Y'all should do it more.

Also I like talking but nobody was replying. I was the last post for like two hours last night

2 hours ago, DeTess said:

We had a short interaction but they didn't really get stuck in. @Shining Silhouette could you give me a read on a couple people? For example, why did you swap your vote to Araris?

Just vibes.

2 hours ago, DeTess said:

For now it's a dead neutral read, but if they continue to play in such a noncommittal way I'll be down to execute them sooner rather than later.

I do prefer the latter option if you're taking opinions 

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

4 hours ago, DeTess said:

Reading through Alpha’s posts my initial assessment was ‘mildly confused newish player giving me a mild village vibe’ until their last post. Though I disagree with the conclusions in their last post it shows someone quite willing to use their head, which goes contrary to the earlier impression I got and even makes me wonder if that might have been intentional to throw people off, or if at some point in the intervening time they had a good chat with the (other) members of the elim team in their doc. Current vibe is mild elim.

Why did your opinion change? What made you change your mind?

[Stick. she/her]

I think at this point I'd be okay with any exe that isn't Silho, Alpha, and potentially (DeTess, Aman). Archer had a point about some of DeTess' comments seeming to display some TMI but I'll note that they had Mobborn-related queries during signups as well so evidently they've had a good read of the rules especially where the Mobborn are concerned so I'd say that stuff is NAI from them. In any case, DeTess should be left alone today on account of them being a returning player. Aman I'm getting slight not-elim vibes from but I'm afraid a lot of that is me giving derp-cred.

That leaves (Mat, Archer, Araris, JNV) for today. Not sure what the vote count is, but I think it's currently tied between Mat and Araris.

[Archer he/him]

8 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I'm a bit annoyed that I'm seemingly being elim read for my low engagement when I've explained why I'm less engaged, but I'll try to get over it since it's happened before and maybe is just a sign I shouldn't play games I know in advance I'll primarily have to skim :P.

 

Mat is painfully aware that one of his elim tells is being annoyed. I can't picture him using that word if he was evil. He's too self aware for that. 

4 hours ago, DeTess said:

First of all, I feel like Aman is very likely village this cycle, and should be considered to be a mobborn starting next cycle (unless a mobborn dies to the kill this cycle). Aman asking to be converted Feels like a village thing because, unless something has changed in their playstyle in the years I was gone, it is so superfluous. If I was the mobborn I'd like to have a skilled analysis focused player like Aman on my side ASAP, so e!aman would realize there was little need to expose himself to added scrutiny if the mobborn where to die early on as a result of trying to convert an informer by making his desire to be converted so obvious.

 

Why are you taking Aman's ask at face value. I've also been treating it as village indicative for the fact that it's within the realm of treason, which seems uncharacteristic for them, so it's probably a mind game or trap. 

Alpha's assessment that an elim might want to get the Mobborns to hurt themselves by hitting them is a good thought, but far too obvious to be the case. 

2 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

 

It's a 9-player game  I have less suspects to sift through. We'd barely hit rollovet. Plus, most of my vote changes occur as a result of real-time interactions so for example had Silho done something particularly off during our exchange I would've insta voted on him. 

One point in your favour is that E!Mat always v!reads me. But I'm pretty sure I called you out on that in your last elim game so it's probably not a tell I can reasonably rely on anymore. 

I think your vote stability is a valid reason to be suspicious. It's also interesting that your response is to find reasons to trust Mat, not become more convinced he's evil. 

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

I’ll also note that the word ‘clear’ is rather strong to be using in this context and for some reason this makes me feel even better about Alpha. 

This is a poor read. Alpha has been co-opting the language of SE players (eg. Ninjad), but still has a murky sense of the weight that some terms carry. I wouldn't expect them to know the difference between cleared and leaning village. 

1 hour ago, Shining Silhouette said:

Smh I thought the cycle ended last night  

You and Araris aren't e-e, noted. Do you believe Araris is the Tineye? 

Quote

In any case, DeTess should be left alone today on account of them being a returning player.

Does anyone remember if Stick says stuff like this? It's often thought, but it's weird to say it out loud, especially in a small game 

I like Araris as an option due to my e!Tineye theory. It's a good passive ability for the Mobborn to have, or action claiming situation defense for the Informers. @JNV you submit an order for a PM that is made by the GM during rollover. 

Araris. Stick

[Amanuensis he/him]

VC:
Stick(2): Mat, Archer
Mat(2):  Stick, Aman
Araris(1): Silho
DeTess(1): Araris
Aman(1): Alpha
Alpha(1): DeTess

Hrmmmmmmmmmm

Edited April 19, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Stick. she/her]

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

Mat is painfully aware that one of his elim tells is being annoyed. I can't picture him using that word if he was evil. He's too self aware for that

That thought crossed my mind. Are you saying it’s TWTBAW? 

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

It's also interesting that your response is to find reasons to trust Mat, not become more convinced he's evil. 

Interesting in what sense?

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

This is a poor read. Alpha has been co-opting the language of SE players (eg. Ninjad), but still has a murky sense of the weight that some terms carry. I wouldn't expect them to know the difference between cleared and leaning village. 

The implication was that I would not expect E!Alpha to use the term lightly as they’d be aware of what it means from their doc, especially because the term had been thrown around in-thread prior. 

(Edit:

ALSO. U_U 

Ninjad is, im pretty certain, not just an SE thing but more of a Shard thing. If you take a look at LG93 you’ll see that Alpha was VERY inquisitive about the SE lingo (e.g. asked what bolded names meant, what NAI meant, etc). So this observation  just doesn’t hold.

END OF EDIT)

20 minutes ago, Archer said:

Does anyone remember if Stick says stuff like this? It's often thought, but it's weird to say it out loud, especially in a small game 

It’s important to mention when it’s relevant to me explicitly placing someone outside of my D1 exe options :P. 

This is not consistent with your earlier light village read of me and it’s too explicit of a defense for me to say Archer/Mat E/E. 

Why are you buying Araris’ claim? Was it even really a claim? 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by _Stick_
Extra word

[DeTess she/her]

1 hour ago, TheAlpha929 said:

Why did your opinion change? What made you change your mind?

I think it was mainly the contrast that I saw between the Alpha from the posts before that one and the alpha I saw in that one. Before you seemed a little confused and just kinda bantering around. A little confusion I tend to see as a village tell as someone with trusted allies to coordinate with would generally not be confused in the thread, as they have others to throw questions at. But then you suddenly had a fairly focussed post where you seemed to be trying to push the lynch onto Aman. It's hard for me to figure out that sudden difference, and 'had a good chat with their allies tog et their head in the game' or  'suddenly saw an opportunity to execute a dangerous player' feels like a halfway decent explanation for that.

17 minutes ago, Archer said:

Why are you taking Aman's ask at face value. I've also been treating it as village indicative for the fact that it's within the realm of treason, which seems uncharacteristic for them, so it's probably a mind game or trap. 

Alpha's assessment that an elim might want to get the Mobborns to hurt themselves by hitting them is a good thought, but far too obvious to be the case. 

For Aman, maybe things have changed in the past years, but when I played previously Aman felt like a fairly straightforward player. Smart and analysis minded, and quite capable of lying and concealing their motives, but not someone that would make 3-layers deep IKYK type plays, which si the only situation in which I could see e!Aman make comments like that.

[Archer he/him]

3 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

That thought crossed my mind. Are you saying it’s TWTBAW? 

Interesting in what sense?

The implication was that I would not expect E!Alpha to use the term lightly as they’d be aware of what it means from their doc, especially because the term had been thrown around in-thread prior. 

It’s important to mention when it’s relevant to me explicitly placing someone outside of my D1 exe options :P. 

This is not consistent with your earlier light village read of me and it’s too explicit of a defense for me to say Archer/Mat E/E. 

Why are you buying Araris’ claim? Was it even really a claim? 

I at least think that Mat would avoid the trigger word. You can say you're annoyed without using the term, so I'd expect e!them to do that instead. Or just not mention it. 

Interesting as in I'm throwing shade at you *whollup*

I think it's a stretch to believe Alpha got lessons in the connotations of terms from the doc. I think it's a reasonable misinterpretation to believe that leaning village = "clear" 

I suppose I could ask you. I know elims commonly think like that when deciding who to kill, but does v!you explicitly rule people out like that? 

My village read of you was undermined when you said your Mat vote was more than bait for Alpha. I'm now leaning elim on ya, there's too much that doesn't sit right with me. 

People pay attention to the role they have. Araris commented on my Tineye theorizing, so I suspect he has it. Interested in whether Shining factored that in. 

Quote

For Aman, maybe things have changed in the past years, but when I played previously Aman felt like a fairly straightforward player. Smart and analysis minded, and quite capable of lying and concealing their motives, but not someone that would make 3-layers deep IKYK type plays, which si the only situation in which I could see e!Aman make comments like that

I've had a different experience with him, but giving an authoritative take on the matter kind of ruins the point of the approach he's taking. 

As for Alpha, I feel like it's an engagement thing. They have less balance in their playstyle because they're not used to playing. That leads to them sort of coasting, then deciding to be very engaged for a while, in more of a boom-bust than players with more practice have. I feel like they found somewhere they thought they'd add value (analyzing Aman) and that caught their attention so they made a longer post about it. Thats somewhere they feel less confused about, so they gravitated towards it to produce a theory. 

I'm 75% confident that's the case. But I because it was the basis of a vote, I can see your explanation of Alpha taking an easy opportunity to vote for a villager being true instead. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

19 minutes ago, DeTess said:

For Aman, maybe things have changed in the past years, but when I played previously Aman felt like a fairly straightforward player. Smart and analysis minded, and quite capable of lying and concealing their motives, but not someone that would make 3-layers deep IKYK type plays, which si the only situation in which I could see e!Aman make comments like that.

I will say my playstyle has shifted a lot from those days  I'm definitely more gambit happy and less analysis driven, at least. Mostly because old age has made me lazy

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

11 minutes ago, Archer said:

I think it's a stretch to believe Alpha got lessons in the connotations of terms from the doc. I think it's a reasonable misinterpretation to believe that leaning village = "clear" 

 

I don’t know why y’all are reading into my use of that word so much, I literally just meant I was clearing my vote off of Mat. I didn’t realize it had a stronger meaning.

Ninja is a term we use everywhere on the Shard, especially in Forum Games where I like to reside.

Also, there is a lot of confusion about why I randomly wrote an in-depth post. I realized I had been pretty lazy this game, and, well, in all my SE games so far. I also wanted to try to put my mind in the same headspace that you more experienced players use.

 I have decided that I’m just going to spectate, to see what I can learn that way.

EDIT: I meant I’m going to spectate future games. I’ll keep playing this one, obviously 

Edited April 19, 2023 by TheAlpha929

[Stick. she/her]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Interesting as in I'm throwing shade at you *whollup*

No I got that  My question is how me trying to "find reasons to trust Mat, not become more convinced he's evil" points to an elim mindset. To me that sounds like a villager's approach to the game. What reason would v!me have to be more convinced he's evil without considering v!Mat at all?

1 hour ago, Archer said:

I think it's a stretch to believe Alpha got lessons in the connotations of terms from the doc. I think it's a reasonable misinterpretation to believe that leaning village = "clear" 

Looks like you missed my edit, but I pointed out that Alpha does tend to ask questions about these things. 

1 hour ago, Archer said:

I suppose I could ask you. I know elims commonly think like that when deciding who to kill, but does v!you explicitly rule people out like that?

If I'm making a post outlining who I'm ruling out of my voting pile (especially given they have a vote already) then yes? Wouldn't go out of my way to say it.

1 hour ago, Archer said:

People pay attention to the role they have. Araris commented on my Tineye theorizing, so I suspect he has it.

Yeah, I pointed that much out. But he's since then alluded to his role in a more explicit sense so I was wondering if you bought that.

Edit:

I can't decide if I want to village-read Archer for the exchange above or elim-read it. But the point about Mat and the lil linguistic analysis is convincing enough for the time being. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by _Stick_

[Stick. she/her]

no Mat

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

no Mat

Just because you’re in the lead or? I was debating where to vote after you retracted 

[Stick. she/her]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Just because you’re in the lead or? I was debating where to vote after you retracted 

It's a little early for self pres  No, I reread the cycle then reread some of LG92 and got myself confused again. What do you make of archer? I briefly considered throwing a vote on JNV just to see what happens.

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, _Stick_ said:

It's a little early for self pres  No, I reread the cycle then reread some of LG92 and got myself confused again. What do you make of archer? I briefly considered throwing a vote on JNV just to see what happens.

I’ve kinda got mixed feelings for him atm, but am slightly leaning village maybe for him referring to my recruitment request as treason, silly as that is

Edited April 19, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Mat he/him]

7 hours ago, DeTess said:

@Matrim's Dice, you said earlier that you considered asking to be recruited to be a serious elim tell. Yet you put Aman, who was most active in that regard in the middle of the pack when you gave your reads. Can you explain your read on Aman more?

I said it could be a serious elim tell, and 'serious' in this context meant more like 'not a joke' or 'actual', not 'extreme'. Basically I just meant that I thought it was possible that the elims would ask to be converted in thread, but I don't really see Aman/Alpha/whoever else doing so as a good reason to elim read them.

It did make me put Aman lower among the nulls, since I think he's most likely to do that out of anyone, but I didn't want to go any lower than that.

5 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

FWIW I'm not elim reading you, especially not for low engagement  generally my votes early game are to put feelers out and see how I feel based on reactions and responses

Anyway, I noticed you've got Araris fairly high up but he didn't get his own line. Is it just because you liked what he pointed out about DeTess?

I just got that vibe from you voting me because I hadn't moved my poke vote

It's a combination of the DeTess point and me not having a lot of thoughts on my middle row of you/Alpha/JNV. Ordinarily that wouldn't warrant a mild village placement, but in this case it's early enough in the game that it edges above the pack.

1 hour ago, Archer said:

I think it's a stretch to believe Alpha got lessons in the connotations of terms from the doc. I think it's a reasonable misinterpretation to believe that leaning village = "clear" 

My village read of you was undermined when you said your Mat vote was more than bait for Alpha. I'm now leaning elim on ya, there's too much that doesn't sit right with me. 

I think this is a good place to mention that I agree with Archer's Alpha take more or less completely. Their new posts kinda feel like a completely different playstyle from yesterday, even, and that's a bit jarring, but I like the change and can totally get behind it making sense.

Mmm I also had the thought that Stick could have said that her vote was Alpha bait only because you suggested the possibility, given that she gave an alternate explanation initially. Forgot to mention that in my last post though.

[Stick. she/her]

Wait...IT'S A MAT TUNNEL. AFTER SO LONG. 

I'm now considerably more confident and will be moving to Archer

[Mat he/him]

4 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Wait...IT'S A MAT TUNNEL. AFTER SO LONG. 

I'm now considerably more confident and will be moving to Archer

I hardly think an elim read I've kept for half a cycle on C1 counts as a tunnel smh

[Stick. she/her]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I hardly think an elim read I've kept for half a cycle on C1 counts as a tunnel smh

It started on page 1 with my clear comment and has lasted 5 pages with increasing momentum.  Let me be relieved in peace 

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

12 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Wait...IT'S A MAT TUNNEL. AFTER SO LONG. 

I'm now considerably more confident and will be moving to Archer

But why

Not going to lie another game with half the players having A-names is tripping me up >>

Araris

Aman

[Mat he/him]

18 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

It started on page 1 with my clear comment and has lasted 5 pages with increasing momentum.  Let me be relieved in peace 

My only post on pg 1 was the second post of the game  I meant half as in time, not pages, anyway. I posted first the elim read 26ish hours ago, which isn't perfect math but it's okay. I refuse to call this a tunnel in its current state  

[Stick. she/her]

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

My only post on pg 1 was the second post of the game  I meant half as in time, not pages, anyway. I posted first the elim read 26ish hours ago, which isn't perfect math but it's okay. I refuse to call this a tunnel in its current state  

And yet this is more of a tunnel than I've seen you push in any of your elim games, if memory serves. I'll take that

23 minutes ago, Shining Silhouette said:

But why

Why my vote's off Mat? E!Mat is almost always extremely passive when it comes to the exe (especially D1) and never tunnels or presents strong opinions. Why Archer? I'm voting from my PoE which is <Mat, Archer, Araris, JNV>

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

13 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Why my vote's off Mat? E!Mat is almost always extremely passive when it comes to the exe (especially D1) and never tunnels or presents strong opinions. Why Archer? I'm voting from my PoE which is <Mat, Archer, Araris, JNV>

Oh sweet

[Amanuensis he/him]

Archer 

VC:
Stick(2): Mat, Archer
Aman(2): Alpha, Silho
Archer(2): Stick, Aman
DeTess(1): Araris
Alpha(1): DeTess

Yay three way ties

ED1T:

@Shining Silhouette r u an in4mer m8?

Edited April 19, 2023 by Amanuensis

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

9 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

r u an in4mer m8?

nah browh if only

some cooler roles are cooler yk

also y r u talking like dis m8 u did this b4 2 is a code or smth?