Long Game 91: A Fresh Start in Shinovar

[Shining Silhouette he/him]

Just now, Elkanah said:

I still think Shining and Insanity's votes on Mat are weird. I bet Kas is the only one with more posts than Mat this cycle, and I see both of you lurking. What are your thoughts? Is there a reason outside of summoning Alv for keeping your votes on Mat?

Hey I was there first :P.

I'm only here for a minute—already gotta go. I'll be back in a couple hours

As for the reason who knows? We're only a quarter through the cycle anyway

[Kasimir he/him]

7 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Yes, but ties are useful at any point, though I can't explain why.

I do also prefer mid-cycle than EoD ties, though EoD ties can be equally revealing. 

Kas

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Ties help reveal who is likely to defend who. Leading to more paths and useful points of data. Rather than a handful of weak poke votes. That's kinda my view on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with this perspective - I just think that I'd prefer not to go into one at EoD, leaving it to RNGesus and/or a vote manip player to decide, who could easily be hostile. It's not that reading the tea leaves from vote manip can't be helpful, but I guess my views have shifted a bit from when I was okay with baiting it. I now think it's the consolation prize. 

38 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I'm hiding behind my silly pokevote to try to not just join a train on someone. I really do want to hear what they want to say. It's taking everything I have to keep these brakes intact. although, given Xino's vote tally, I would prefer to lynch Bookwyrm over Mat. Alvron 

Sorry I missed this. I get it, I'm just curious how you think not voting Alv will convey the idea you don't care to hear what he says. There's also the option of starting a new train - the cycle is young yet. But this is also kind of moot as you shifted your vote.

4 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Is there a reason outside of summoning Alv for keeping your votes on Mat?

Can someone explain to me where the Alv summoning via Mat argument came from.

I'm legit confused now >>

Edited to add: @Elkanah - I'll grant it could be a meta deal since the meta in our heydays was very poke vote centric, but I do see poke votes as a way to vote and to not need to be terribly controversial in contributing to trains, so I tend to want to pay attention to them.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Kasimir

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

I don't disagree with this perspective - I just think that I'd prefer not to go into one at EoD, leaving it to RNGesus and/or a vote manip player to decide, who could easily be hostile. It's not that reading the tea leaves from vote manip can't be helpful, but I guess my views have shifted a bit from when I was okay with baiting it. I now think it's the consolation prize. 

36 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I completely forgot about vote manip >.<

[Elkanah he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Sorry I missed this. I get it, I'm just curious how you think not voting Alv will convey the idea you don't care to hear what he says. There's also the option of starting a new train - the cycle is young yet. But this is also kind of moot as you shifted your vote.

Can someone explain to me where the Alv summoning via Mat argument came from.

I'm legit confused now >>

Solid points. It wasn't so important that I kept my vote on Alv as that I refrained from voting on Bookwyrm for one sketchy post. I figured if I wasn't moving my vote for a reason, it could sit where it was (and I could continue making jokes about summoning). A new train would have been fine, but I didn't have a target for that either. 

I was okay with them leaving their votes on Mat because it maintained the tie. That was the only reason left for voting for Mat as far as I could see. Ties are Alvrons favorite food.

[InfiniteInsanity she/her]

16 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I still think Shining and Insanity's votes on Mat are weird. I bet Kas is the only one with more posts than Mat this cycle, and I see both of you lurking. What are your thoughts? Is there a reason outside of summoning Alv for keeping your votes on Mat?

Y'all are posting and thinking faster than my brain can handle currently. I just need a couple of hours to sort out what's going on and figure out my own thoughts before I can attempt to tell you what they are.

[Elkanah he/him]

Just now, InfiniteInsanity said:

Y'all are posting and thinking faster than my brain can handle currently. I just need a couple of hours to sort out what's going on and figure out my own thoughts before I can attempt to tell you what they are.

That's fair. I'm just spilling my thoughts onto the thread. Sorry for the undue pressure

[Stick. she/her]

I go out to dinner and come back to SEVEN PAGES EXCUSE ME ;-;

There's no way I'm reading all this now sorry it's 12 am. Luckily more than half the turn is still left so I've got time to catch up tomorrow

But activity is a good thing, so this is great

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I was okay with them leaving their votes on Mat because it maintained the tie. That was the only reason left for voting for Mat as far as I could see. Ties are Alvrons favorite food.

Ok, fair enough. I take it you have for a moment a V!read of Mat, then.

Just now, _Stick_ said:

I go out to dinner and come back to SEVEN PAGES EXCUSE ME ;-;

Would it help if I told you some of that volume is quokkas?

Chantara.

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

Aaaaaaaaa

why so many posts

why

In all seriousness, Kas seems to be weirdly active for someone who has, and I quote, “werk werk werk.” But then again, this is Kas.

I don’t have many good reads, but something I think might be useful is spreading the votes out so we can suss out vote manip. If we could get a handle on if they’re evil or not then I think we’d actually be getting somewhere.

Just a thought.

[Kasimir he/him]

8 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

In all seriousness, Kas seems to be weirdly active for someone who has, and I quote, “werk werk werk.” But then again, this is Kas.

Tbh I wouldn't believe me either because I burned a lot of pewter and rage-powered through it in the hours before night classes and skipped dinner, as everyone who insisted it was urgent also insisted "I've got night classes and the mid-term exam is coming out" wasn't a sufficiently good reason for not answering four exact queries on digital twins.

The net result is that I'm too moody to sleep, too moody to focus on the thread, and too annoyed to do my ML homework so I just kind of sit in the thread like Smaug and blurt out the thoughts that get stuck in my head and then get obdurately stuck on random people who apparently include Mat this cycle. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So ist das Leben.

[Archer he/him]

Oh boy. I have 15 quotes to drop, so I'm going to bold the ones that actually matter. 

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

My cow is ashamed. 

It is interesting to see the small pile on Mat. I don't anticipate it staying now that I've pointed it out, but I'll bet it has something to do with a super secret in-thread pm between Silhouette and others.

are you saying it's... cowed

Potentially e-e observation

2 hours ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Honestly thought you were MT. 

Also, Araris Valerian because you're trying to kill Alv, and Alv is fun. No killing Alv allowed.

I thought he was MAT

Player who just admitted they don't poke vote very often is more likely to be using it as cover to defend a teammate than someone else is

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Would this be a bad time to mention my e!Kas credences are higher than normal  

His obsession with Turtle was a red flag for me but it's probably just a case of Kas will talk a lot regardless of how much there is to talk about. 

2 hours ago, Elkanah said:

If you think I'm bad you can lunch me.

there's a platypus offering lunch on page two, I think

1 hour ago, Turtle said:

tbh kas could be e but i’ll wait a bit before i vote him cos he’s helpful to us late game and i think i can get a better read on him later game

That's a sorry reason to hold off voting on someone. Reads as e-e

1 hour ago, Elkanah said:

Good RP. Are you claiming to hold an honorblade, though?

Good question. It'd be a bad question to answer, but it's good to ask 

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

Anyways has the D1 meta already changed that our first posts aren't about distribution and whatnot? smhsmh

I tried. :(. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Part of me also recognises that 80% of my QF63 problems came from arguing that a five player team should've reined everything in a lot more except that didn't happen, and I was looking at the wrong layer, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SE tends to have pretty weak team discipline in the sense that people don't come down hard on you for acting out a little bit. Probably a moot aspect to explore. :P. 

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

You are casting a self-preservation vote even though there are *checks watch* nearly 36 hours left in the cycle?

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

All young folks look alike, okay?

I was originally thinking a self-pres vote this early in the day is kinda villagery, since an elim would probably want to de-escalate things if possible. Now I'm not sure what to think, though I would say the fact that there are still nearly 36 hours left in the cycle means that maybe everyone shouldn't be jumping onto wagons yet? I guess since we have more than 2 it's not the worst thing.

I like this premise. I'll happily vote Xino for playing to the VC not their suspicions 

47 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Before I get comments, being aggressive/confrontational isn't incompatible with being reactive.

Are you getting Quinn-Illwei v-v threadbrawl vibes?

41 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I'm fine with a tie.

Ties help reveal alignments.

24 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I completely forgot about vote manip >.<

This person is hyper-focused on the VC

30 minutes ago, The Bookwyrm said:

He's doing the exact same thing I did, so my vote isn't really justified.

Nonsense. He's obviously doing it as an elim, while you, a villager, are acting with the best of intentions. 

10 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

That's fair. I'm just spilling my thoughts onto the thread. Sorry for the undue pressure

I blame you for the overloaded thread state :P.

[Alvron]

7 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

20 a perfect number for a D20.

The dice has spoken Chantara.

If the dice speak, we would be wise to listen.

6 hours ago, Archer said:

Do you wanna vote for Wiz with me for the sin of random voting? It's the least useful type in terms of the information it provides. 

Quote

 the sin of random voting

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 the sin of random voting

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the sin of random voting

Deep breaths Alv.  Deep breaths.  They didn't mean it.

Nope.  Didn't work.

UNLEASH THE IZZY!

 

5 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

In regards to votes, I’m pretty sure Alvron is elim.

Jelly Araris?  

5 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

It doesn’t mater if he’s posted. I just have this weird suspicion that he’s gonna murder me, and in this case that makes him evil.

It's not me.  It's Izzy that really wants you dead.

4 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I second the vote on Alvron for either voting suspiciously or not and cast the summoning spell that Kas has taught us. @Alvron

I am immune to your puny @ summoning spells.  I require certain offerings before you are graced with my presence.  Namely time.

2 hours ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Also, Araris Valerian because you're trying to kill Alv, and Alv is fun. No killing Alv allowed.

I approve of this message.

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

I agree that Bookwyrm is suspicious. Alvron can live until I get a Division blade,.

Weakness discovered.  No one give Araris a Blade.

54 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

We could summon a wild Alvron!

I don't think you want a Wild Alvron.  A tame one is dangerous enough as it is.

49 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

I'm fine with a tie.

Ties help reveal alignments.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

3 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Jelly Araris?  

13 minutes ago, Archer said:

I like this premise. I'll happily vote Xino for playing to the VC not their suspicions

Sure thing boss. Bookwyrm, Xino

My feelings are a bit mixed on Xino, but that doesn't mean I'm not happy to vote him out today.

[Alvron]

17 minutes ago, Archer said:

Player who just admitted they don't poke vote very often is more likely to be using it as cover to defend a teammate than someone else is

 

I like this premise. I'll happily vote Xino for playing to the VC not their suspicions 

 

This person is hyper-focused on the VC

I'm a player and I don't poke vote very often but when I do, I never use it to cover for a teammate.

Yeah, you're not going to like me.  I almost always vote for the VC rather than suspicions when there's a chance at a tie.  I don't even care if I'm one of the tied votes.  Heck, I've even voted on myself to insure a tie before.

As am I whenever a tie is possible.
 

56 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Ties are Alvrons favorite food.

Indeed they are.  So juicy.

[Illwei]

I'm going to call Shining V for now, at least. The way she approached thread wrt the PMs comes off as comfortable which is good. Probably the least reason to townread and will change if we don't see more substenance other than mild meta questions.

Araris is much higher than that in terms of my village reads. Again, for comfortability, but moreso than shining because Araris has shown more desire to question and solve along game related pathways instead of taking a partial outsider stance like shining. 

Speaking of votes on mat being wierd, Mat's vote on insanity was strange. In that interaction book votes insanity, insanity doesn't show up, and then book takes the vote off with a strange post. Mat then votes insanity, where I believe the natural progression is to vote Book. 

Elkanah turning away from the Alv focus is a good look, since I was ready to talk about how he stayed there and even made a tie, but in a way that allowed him to ignore the game. But luckily I don't have to mention that anymore. One thing is that his vote on Alv, vote /off/ Alv, and then vote to tie with comment that Alv should show up implies a deeper connection between him and alv, one option of which being that they are teamed. Besides that though, his instant vote switch from bookwyrm to wizard is a potential good look as well as what was mentioned above. 

Leaning stick Elim right now, simply because she checked in at SoD, but waited three hours to place a vote and when she did it was still on someone who had not entered thread yet. If you wait to post a vote at the start of the cycle the implication is that you are waiting to see who talks. To then come back to thread and place a vote on TUN when Archer, Mat, Chantara, Turtle, Xino, Kas, and Shining had all talked implies some level of village read on them (if a villager).
 - Her reasoning was that she hadn't seen TUN talk yet, but saw him lurking (implying that lurking is bad, regardless of what words she used) yet to have seen that she had to have been lurking herself.

Insanity and Bookwyrm- Bookwyrm is someone who I also think can be easily aligned with Alv, mostly for their reaction to Araris' vote on Alv (which spews Araris and Bookwyrm not e/e. Their insistence on D1 reads being impossible to grab on to gives room for them to explain being wrong, which as a new player they shouldn't have to worry about (generally I believe no one should have to worry about being wrong but that's for another time). 

I don't think Insanity and bookwyrm have to be teamed. I think if only one of them is an elim it's possible for it to be insanity, but my main hold up in general around both of their slots is insanity saying "Oh that's what your title means" but it really comes down to if voting back was instinctual for insanity or not, and I can't see inside their mind. 

I don't quite have a read on turtle yet, but I'm not concerned about that, as I've found even on MU their play stays pretty much the same. This is relevant because if turtle is village then Archer's opener means he's more likely village. He comes in and immediately discourages the talk about turtle, at the most putting turtle in village-lean but really just quelling the suspicion (or attempting.) 

I do disagree with his thoughts on the distribution though:

5/20 is a fine number and I'm fine that we ended there. I do want to note that as someone else said- the longer this game goes, on the more likely that more blades fall to the Elims. The relocation aspect of the shaman isn't neccessarily village sided, assuming the average person is no better than rand at finding the elims. Not only that, but I assume with the added aspect of people wanting the honorblades, I wouldn't be suprised if the shaman simply took peoples blades to try and find one they wanted. So yes, the shaman has the ability to take the blades away from the elims, but in reality the chances of them getting it right isn't as likely as the ideal scenario, ofc. 

That's pretty much all my thoughts so far, I've read everything too many times over at this point. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

P	Kasimir	votes	Stick	+1
P	Shining	votes	Matrim	+1
P	Turtle	votes	Matrim	+2
P	Bookwyrm	votes	Insanity	+1
P	Wizard	votes	Chantara	+1
P	Matrim	votes	Archer	+1
P	Archer	votes	Wizard	+1
P	Stick	votes	TUN	+1
P	Turtle	unvotes	Matrim	- 1
P	Matrim	unvotes	Archer	- 0
P	Bookwyrm	unvotes	Insanity	- 0
P	Matrim	votes	Insanity	+1
P	Araris	votes	Alvron	+1
P	Kasimir	unvotes	Stick	- 0
P	Kasimir	votes	Matrim	+2
P	Elkanah	votes	Alvron	+2
P	Szeth	votes	TUN	+2
P	Insanity	votes	Matrim	+3
P	TUN	votes	Araris	+1
P	Bookwyrm	votes	Matrim	+4
P	JNV	votes	Bookwyrm	+1
P	Szeth	unvotes	TUN	- 0
P	Wizard	unvotes	Chantara	- 0
P	Wizard	votes	Bookwyrm	+2
P	Araris	unvotes	Alvron	- 1
P	Araris	votes	Bookwyrm	+3
P	Xinoehp	votes	Bookwyrm	+4
P	Elkanah	unvotes	Alvron	- 0
P	Elkanah	votes	Bookwyrm	+5
P	Kasimir	unvotes	Matrim	- 3
P	Xinoehp	unvotes	Bookwyrm	- 4
P	Xinoehp	votes	Wizard	+2
P	Elkanah	unvotes	Bookwyrm	- 3
P	Elkanah	votes	Wizard	+3
P	Bookwyrm	unvotes	Matrim	- 2
P	Kasimir	votes	Chantara	+1
P	Araris	unvotes	Bookwyrm	- 2
P	Araris	votes	Xinoehp	+1

 

 

 

 

[Cash67]

A call rings through the square: “Omelets, get your High Council Omelets here!!  We got fresh chicken eggs and spinach and cheese here. Can’t defend the village in an empty stomach!”

 

also, yeah I’m gonna see how votes turn out  for others for D1. It is so hard to get a read w/o pms or a night cycle beforehand. 

[Illwei]

3 minutes ago, Cash67 said:

also, yeah I’m gonna see how votes turn out  for others for D1. It is so hard to get a read w/o pms or a night cycle beforehand. 

Can you talk about your previous experience with social deduction games, and how you see PMs as more useful than threads? 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Illwei

[Kasimir he/him]

21 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I don't quite have a read on turtle yet, but I'm not concerned about that, as I've found even on MU their play stays pretty much the same. This is relevant because if turtle is village then Archer's opener means he's more likely village. He comes in and immediately discourages the talk about turtle, at the most putting turtle in village-lean but really just quelling the suspicion (or attempting.) 

How does this line of reasoning work - basically he could've let that go through as LHF?

[Alvron]

24 minutes ago, Illwei said:

One thing is that his vote on Alv, vote /off/ Alv, and then vote to tie with comment that Alv should show up implies a deeper connection between him and alv, one option of which being that they are teamed.

Thank you for this Wei.  It made me think 'have I been evil with Elk before?'  Turns out I haven't (unless of course they played under a different name) but it did make me go through my kill list.  Turns out Elk killed me in AG2.

Someone give me Chanarach’s Honorblade!  I have a chance to cross off someone that's been on my kill list for years! 

[Kasimir he/him]

.....................................

@Elkanah

I'll burn a prayer glyph for you, that your soul will find respite in the Beyond.

Edited to add: Oh. Huh. Araris killed Alv in the last version of this game. So much makes sense to me now.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Kasimir

[Illwei]

Just now, Kasimir said:

How does this line of reasoning work - basically he could've let that go through as LHF?

Regardless of turtles status (as LHF, yes), but his first action in thread was to shut down what I considered to be a mostly meaningless discussion on turtle's habits as an Elim. 

His other posts aren't great, and I don't know what he thinks gives off Quinn v. Illwei threadbrawl vibes, but I liked his opening so I'm sticking by my village read for now. 

5 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Thank you for this Wei.  It made me think 'have I been evil with Elk before?'  Turns out I haven't (unless of course they played under a different name) but it did make me go through my kill list.  Turns out Elk killed me in AG2.

I don't understand your line of thought here, as I was saying you and Elk are potentially teamed. 

Nothing Alv has posted has given any indication that he's village, and that's enough for an Elim- lean for me considering his other games. He seems to be a little over the top today, as if he knows he's chaotic and therefore plays up the chaotic-ness trying to replicate his village attitude. 

[Cash67]

24 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Can you talk about your previous experience with social deduction games, and how you see PMs as more useful than threads? 

Oh threads are more useful, but with PMs, it’s easier to make early game connections and formulate a plan without playing your thoughts into the thread. 
 

exp w/deduction games jncludes the standards: Mafia, Among Us, Secret Hitler and some Jackbox, but before we made a choice in who to throw out, actions always took place first. So yeah that’s what I am missing rn. 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

2 hours ago, JNV said:

 

Honestly feels similar to the statement youre reacting to like warn against but also no its fine like it just feels like a statement there to imply without formalizing a position for or against specifically might be reading too much into it oh well

I think it's fairly obvious I'm saying that their plan of action under assumption of e!Kas isn't very good, but I also think Kas is v.

2 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

I agree that Bookwyrm is suspicious. Alvron can live until I get a Division blade,.

To elaborate, Book's posts feel like they are too careful. Sometime newer players are like that, but I think newer elims are even more prone to that, so it's worth a vote change.

Or you can live until Alv gets a division blade, if you're elim of course.

Also, Araris

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Mat (4): Shining, Kas, Insanity, Bookwyrm
Wizard (1): Archer
TUN (3): Stick, Szeth, Mat
Alvron (1): Elkanah
Araris (1): TUN
Bookwyrm (4): JNV, Wizard, Araris, Xino

My my this thread sure is going fast isn't it :P.

Whoops almost got my post chomped there 

Between TUN and Bookwyrm, I'm going to vote Bookwyrm.

Why is Mat voting for me?

@Matrim's Dice, why are you voting me?

1 hour ago, Elkanah said:

We could summon a wild Alvron!

Bookwyrm Wizard

(In Gollum voice) My tiessss[/s]

1 hour ago, Shining Silhouette said:

What he said! ^^

To TUN:

  Hide contents

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If your name's not TUN and you're looking here

  Hide contents

GET OUT

...

AND DISHONOR ON YOUR COW

  Hide contents

@TUN HOW DARE YOU

WHAT ARE YOU INSINUATING

THESE PMS ARE PRIVATE AND SECURE

 

 

To Kas:

  Reveal hidden contents

  Hide contents

Interesting! Thanks for your thoughts—they're a pleasure to read and always give me lots to think about

 

 

Spoiler

Ah, OK, so I'm fine to claim in here then?

I'm the Stone Shaman, and for some reason (maybe since I'll have to give it away to use my ability), I have the Chanarach blade. 

1 hour ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Aaaaaaaaa

why so many posts

why

In all seriousness, Kas seems to be weirdly active for someone who has, and I quote, “werk werk werk.” But then again, this is Kas.

Kas has stated before (and I agree), that oddly high-active, especially when he has other things going on, generally leans more v!Kas.

53 minutes ago, Archer said:

 

I thought he was MAT

Player who just admitted they don't poke vote very often is more likely to be using it as cover to defend a teammate than someone else is

Pretty sure he's actually Ethan, all things considered.

Not a poke vote, if that's what you were saying. The vote felt weird, and I want to be able to see Alvron cause some chaos for at least a little while. And his gods are funny.

47 minutes ago, Alvron said:

 

I approve of this message.

Wait, the gods of Luck and Chance don't approve of their prophet staying alive?

[Mat he/him]

14 minutes ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Why is Mat voting for me?

@Matrim's Dice, why are you voting me?

I’m voting Insanity.

[Alvron]

8 minutes ago, The Unknown Novel said:

Wait, the gods of Luck and Chance don't approve of their prophet staying alive?

The Gods of Luck and Chance don't play favourites.  Not openly at least.  

17 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Nothing Alv has posted has given any indication that he's village, and that's enough for an Elim- lean for me considering his other games. He seems to be a little over the top today, as if he knows he's chaotic and therefore plays up the chaotic-ness trying to replicate his village attitude. 

Thankfully, my alignment has zero impact on how I act in thread.  If you wish I can direct you to Zunn the Mad, Joxter, Mr, Red Facemask or Klaas Vaak games that might help you.  How I act in thread depends purely on my mood.
Ah, memories.