WhiteLeeopard

I swear, the information "Elhokar has a son" seems to fall into a black hole in my brain, forgotten until the next time I read it, after which it soon falls into the black hole again. This may be because he does not behave like an adult, certainly not enough to be a father. Right now I'm about a quarter of my reread into WoK, and I'm paying particular attention to Dalinar's interactions. Interestingly enough, I think so far he is a bit hard on Adolin but not to absolute extremes. He is pushing Adolin to be his heir, to be a good leader, giving him command so he will be a good highprince when the time comes (which is what Gavilar should have done with Elhokar). Yes, he doesn't listen to Adolin enough, but neither does he completely ignore it, sometimes he is swayed by his words, or they make him realize he is going about something the wrong way. With Renarin he is much nicer and loving, but I'm not certain that is a good thing, Renarin certainly seems to feel how coddled he is, and it isn't really good for him. Dalinar actually seems rather distant with Renarin too, applying his feelings and projecting how he would feel in his circumstances. Mainly he just seems to favor Renarin due to been the second son, not so much because of his disability. Up till this point it is nothing too unusual for those kind of times. Not a stellar father for either child but not bad either. The real problem is how he is with Elhokar. That's what skews everything out of perspective. He is completely, utterly blind to Elhokar's faults, he lets him do whatever he wants, he coddles him worse than a 5 year old, all the while letting Elhokar treat him however he wants, without even demanding the basic respect of a nephew for his uncle, or of a king for a highprince. He gives everything to Elhokar, even what should rightfully belong to his sons, his princedom, all the shards he gets, his attention, etc, etc. He doesn't even upbraid him when Elhokar shames or disrespects house Kholinar without a second thought. It is when you compare how he behaves with Elhokar, and how he behaves with his sons that you start seeing the disparities and problems. And Adolin is the one worst off as he is a bit harder on him. But in a way he takes more from Renarin, as Adolin has some basic things that belong to him due to been the firstborn. Except of course his attention . I think the reason why Adolin and Renarin are so close is probably because they always had a distant father, first off been the Blackthorn, then doting over his nephew and giving him everything that should have been theirs.

I'm going through my WoK reread, and I'm not completely certain Bondsmiths were necesarily always the leader. It does seem the way the wind is blowing, but when you think about it uniting (been the glue that holds everyone togehter) is not necesarily the same as leading. And yes, part of this issue comes from the Windrunners and leading ideal. The way I was thinking is of the difference between leading and commanding. Leading is giving the men something to believe in, so they follow you. Commanding is giving the actual orders to follow. Maybe these two are separated between Bondsmiths and Windrunners. As for Truthwatchers, we've seen so little of them I'm not sure how much we can confidently say. I don't really see them as leaders from what they have shown on the past. But yes as advisors, and once again the glue that binds together different orders. Maybe Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers are on the middle as they were the two orders that didn't get into fights easily with other orders, and that all remaining 8 groups of knights innately trusted.

The one person that we haven't yet seen that night is Hoid. Which is beyond unusual. Considering he can manage to be present at relatively unimportant events, I find it hard to believe he missed the most important night of the decade in Cosmere terms, unless his chromium medallions were completely tapped out.

What I'd like most to see happen with Adolin is go to Kholinar. Has the perks of getting him away from Dalinar, which I think he sorely needs, and giving us a story of friendship (with Kaladin) instead of love (with Shallan), which in my opinion is much more interesting to read. Elhokar can be swept under the rug for all all I care.

Have an upvote for your 1000th post. And to truly celebrate you should have some strawberry jam with the bread . I agree about Liss/Chana, but at the same time we have interacted so very little with the Heralds, I'm not sure if we can confidently say we know how their madness would manifest for all of them.

You're right, just reread it. But she didn't seem averse to getting one, just have the impression she couldn't be bothered to do so. So I wouldn't say having a shardblade is a mark against been a Herald.

Didn't Shalash also have a Shardblade too? I wouldn't be surprised if most Heralds didn't want to recover their Honorblades due to what they meant, but they did like some of the minor perks of a Shardblade, as such they could just have picked a normal one. Still, I originally didn't like the Liss/Chana theory, as it would eventually mean there seem to be no interesting storylines that do not involve Heralds or secret societies.

At first it seemed because Gavilar's death kicked off everything else. Later we slowly realize its very important because anyone who is anyone in Roshar seemed to be present that night, whether its Heralds, kings or secret societies.

Taln was probably about to break, you are right the Desolation was on its way. The problem, is as follows: Gavilar could have used the time to prepare humanity, and start finding radiants Instead he decided to try to make the Desolation come even faster, to increase his own glory I also disagree that Gavilar didn't need to train a heir. If Elhokar were a good king, a lot of the chaos that happened during the vengance pact would not have happened, they could have reached peace with the parshendi and maybe further united Roshar before the Desolation. And it also seems much easier to unite people if you can promise that if you fall there is a good leader ready to suceed. Trying to make a legacy without giving a single thought to who will succed you is flawed thinking at its best

I don't think Gavilar planned on dying. That been said, I find him to be a short sighted idiot. Problem: I have reforged the kingdom of Alethkar, the worst part for a kingdom is the heir's reign, how to keep the kingdom intact? Solution of average person: Lets train the heir from the cradle to be a wonderful king, strong, respected, benevolent, fair and beloved., summoning the best warriors, commanders, ardents, scholars and advisors from all over Roshar. Solution of Gavilar: lets start the destruction of the world so my kingdom will be forced to stay together, what does it matter if 90% of my people and most likely my entire family will die in the process.

I think there is a high chance T was there, and might have gone to the Nightwatcher as a consequence, which then unfolded the Diagram and its plan. I wouldn't discard Ishar been there, but the chances of running against another Herald that night were quite high. Then again, that even reinforces it. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out every single Herald except Taln was there that night.

Kelsier. Not been a noble I should be safe, and it would be fascinating. Would you rather live 100 years in Nalthis with the chance to become rich enough to buy Breath or 10 years as a high level Forger in Sel?

Timewise, the first time the black sphere appears is when one of Szeth's owners tells a story of how he stole a black sphere from the Nightwatcher. He was notorious for lying and embellishing stories, but he does mention it, and even if less than 10% of the story was true, it is still a hint. Next time it is seen is when Gavilar gives it to Szeth. Last time it is mentioned, is how Szeth thinks he hid it in Jah Keved.

Oi Oversleep, you forgot to write another secret societies into Roshar . I would add Vasher to Roshar, and read Era 2 Scadrial newspapers with a magnifying glass as there is a lot hidden in them.

This is an interesting point, but for other reasons. If Ishar did betray the Heralds (big if) running around the palace conspiring to bring the Desolation back, at the same time half the Heralds are there seems the height of imprudence. On the part that Nale/Kalak are the ones before the assasination...the one part I never got is why didn't they (both the parshendi and whoever manipulated them) just have Szeth assasinate Gavilar quietly then pretend ignorance? If removing Gavilar and the threat he posed was all they wanted, better to do it quietly than to point the Alethi like an arrow to the Parshendi, considering how when backed to a wall the Parshendi always have a very dangerous last escape.

Yes, but wasn't he mistaken when he thought that was a possibility?

I think atium will continue been as important as in era 1 for some people. Kelsier at least will likely be hunting it fervently, as Marsh and (maybe Spook) likely need it to continue alive after centuries.

Nice Fullborn thread. Couldn't help but give a couple upvotes despite been necroed. Now I wonder how dissapointed we would be if Secret history spoilers Calderis, I thought it was impossible to get Fullborn genetically, regardless of the combinations you made or how the genes were mixed. But admittedly I am not at all certain of this.

I thought that even with the Era 1 stronger genes it wasn't possible to be born a Fullborn. Maximum naturally was either Mistborn or Feruchemist. However since I can't enter theoryland I can't double check if that comes from a WoB.

I've seen that theory. Its as good as any, but I think the major problem with it was the timeline, as the destruction of Aimia seemed to happen later on. But I'm not completely certain of that.

I think he may be about to. But he hasn't yet. After all seeing him fight for Roshar for the last 2 pages of WoR doesn't feel as long enough to leave me with the impression that he has truly left the past in the past.

I am looking forward to finding out what is going on in Kholinar and with Aseduan. Also what the Sons of Honor will do when they realize they were absolutely wrong. Anything from what the Parshendi/new voidbringers are up to will be interesting.

I can see why Dalinar is admired by readers, but I never fully liked him. He trusted Sadeas when it was obvious he was shady and got 6000 soldiers killed for it. He doesn't treat Adolin too well, he coddles Renarin to the point that Renarin seems even more insecure than if he had been treated normally, he makes no effort to teach Elhokar to be a true king. He has put Gavilar on a pedestal, and refuses to even hear when people subtly say he should look more closely. I think my biggest problem with Dalinar is that for me, what truly defines a character is what, or who he cares for, and fights for. What does Dalinar fight/care for? His brother's memory? His guilt over Gavilar's death? None of these seem very healthy, or good reasons to fight. Why? Because they come from negative emotions, guilt, hate, revenge. And because they are mired in the past. If Dalinar moves on to something better to fight for, and for better reasons like unity for Roshar out of a wish to save his people or to create a better future, then I will likely view him more positively.

Thats been a point of contention at the 17th shard for a long time. We have a WoB that the blades were swapped since WoK and WoR, but the only thing further we know is that it wasn't Hoid. The blade in WoR was a normal Shardblade, the one in WoK we don't know. The only half-possible theory I have read is that it could have been swapped by the Stone Shamans, but even that had some holes in the theory. I will try to find the WoBs in question, but I'm really bad at it, so no promises.

Yes, like Calderis pointed out, just because not all were there doesn't mean all radiants weren't all simultaneously doing it. From what we know it is quite likely that Windrunners and Stonewards got along well, and probably worked together often. If they were going to do a last act as Radiants, they might as well do it with their partners. What I'm most curious about that vision, is that they say the Radiants were fighting someone. Who was that someone? It couldn't be Voidbringers, as it wasn't a Desolation, and I find it hard to believe they would fight anyone in Roshar when they were tasked with been the Knights of all humanity, and likely had members of all nationalities.