WhiteLeeopard

I'm a bit uncomfortable at the thought of Kelsier having a large part to play in the modern era, unless he plays it from the shadows. Kelsier is without a doubt my favorite literary character ever written, and part of it are his infinite flaws. But at the same time, he is now considered the ultimate god by the majority of Scadrial, and gods aren't really meant to completely intervene in events, just nudge them, otherwise people would lose their illusions about them. He has been made into a larger than life figure, despite everyone knowing the details of his past, which is why I'm not too convinced of what it would do to Scadrial if he showed himself to any more than a small trustworthy group. And same goes for Marsh and Spook if he is around. And of course, as Oversleep said, he is now so mega powerful and has a decent chunk of knowledge, that there are few groups/people that can hope to pose a threat to him. Final problem is, I'm not the only one that loves Kelsier, he appeared for half a page in BoM and has had more discussion than the rest of the book put together. Give him a large part to play and no-one will notice the new characters . Yet at the same time I'm a bit conflicted pointing this out, as I could read Kelsier adventures forever and be happy . Going back to a previous point, I agree he could change Scadrial whichever way he wanted, although he could probably do so with his religious weight alone. However I don't see why he would want to. Yes, nobles still have more power than he would have liked them to, but compared to the final empire, current Scadrial will seem a paradise to him. No ash, no slaves, no people killed on whims. At the end of the day, he will probably always use the final empire as a base line, as it was his original time and place. In any case, the basin seems to be on the verge of a new revolution, which will likely give more rights to all including border cities.

Has it been 100% confirmed it is Kelsier? I thought everything pointed at it but without the final nail in the coffin, which kept things at 99% sure.

The Heralds are five men and five women, the women are the patrons of the Lightweavers (Shalash), Elsecallers (Battar), Edgedancers (Vedel), Truthwathcers (Paliah), Dustbringers (Chana).

Adolin and Nightblood (my favorite characters), but since was already said I will add Liss, and possibly Nale could be interesting.

This just fits in so perfectly. I don't want it to be true, but it makes far too much sense. The Heralds were great men and women, but they were already broken when they broke the Oathpact. Add in another 4500 years of torture, alone and betrayed by his friends...and I can't think of a single literary character ever written strong enough to withstand that. If Odium wanted to turn Taln I bet he could have done it. The only reason why this might not be the case is if Odium had no interest in turning him, which seems unlikely, as what are the drawbacks of turning a godlike Herald of Honor? Zero as far as we know.

I agree the hardest part to fit into this is the timing. Stormlight archive 1, then run to spend years in Scadrial? The other part why it seems hard to believe is I don't see Hoid sticking to one person for longer than a few weeks at a time. But if the timing fits and for some reason he stayed with one person for years, Jak seems a likely choice. He seems a happy go lucky person, out to have fun and adventures, and occasionally exasperate those around him, someone Hoid might get along with well.

I find it unlikely Lift will appear in Part One, and maybe even Two, as isn't that simultaneusly happening with Edgedancer?

Lift will probably come to your rescue there at some point.

There is absolutely nothing that is unimportant enough to not be discussed in this forum if it came from the books. Keep in mind that those four were his closest and most trusted confidantes and advisors...we think, lets forgot about Amaram and Taravangian for now. Gavilar would likely think nothing of letting out some obscure examples, as even if they thought it odd they would let it go, it isn't as if he would let out a weakness to enemies. The idea of a Shin that went "dark" with one or more Honorblades sounds appealing, after all it seems very very unlikely there would be an unchanging society for 4000 years. The closest example we have in our world is Egypt, which lasted over 3000 years, but even they changed over a few times so much they were unrecognizable.

Now you want to murder slash steal a planet's essence, what next?

SA= Stormlight Archive It takes a bit to get used to all the acronyms Whenever the conversation of the Champion comes up, my thoughts keep coming back to the four which the Aimians are watching (Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar and Szeth). And yes, that those four are the ones that have been kept mostly steady since WoK prime is part of it.

I agree with maxal and calderis arguments, but my argument against this theory is far more pragmatic. 1. Champion idea has likely been around since original SA manuscript 2. Adolin died in tWoK prime Conclusion, whatever Adolin's amazing future ( and I expect great things from him) it's unlikely to be along charted waters. Which is why blade awaken theory fits in nicely. Its impressive but possibly not predecided when Brandon sat down to write SA. P.s. I don't disagree, but why not truthwatchers? We know so little of them I can't decide either way

For me its about loyalty. You can do a lot of things, but not betray your friends. Kelsier had a million and one flaws, but he never betrayed his friends. Kaladin nearly made the wrong choice, but that seems minor to me compared to turning on friends. When Kal stopped him Moash should have cursed him up a storm, then have gotten past him without hurting him or left. There is never a good reason to betray a friend. Yes Moash was sorry immediately, but then he should have returned and said sorry for trying to kill you Kal. Rather than continuing along with the person that just used him and convinced him to try to kill his friend and commander, who incidentally had saved his own life many times.

I find a fight between Adolin and Kaladin to be unrealistic, why would they do it? Unless they are sparring. Not sure about honorblade going to Adolin either. Remember Szeth's pov in the prologue of tWoK? He said plate and honorblade were hard to combine, and Adolin is really good with plate and blade, but has no experience with surgebinding, and he would have to learn from zero and with no spren to guide him. Considering there have been several new radiants on every book so far, including Edgedancer, I think it is not unrealistic to expect several new radiants. Some from Bridge 4 is likely, maybe some new interlude radiants too? My top picks at the moment are Skar and Rock.

It will also be interesting to see what the church and ardents will do, as, as has been posted elsewhere they are ripe to be an organization to throw a wrench into events. They are one of the few literate groups, they apparently are an almost subservient group, but truth is they are the only group with steady access to soulcasters and shardblades, even if theorically they aren't theirs but on loan. They have among their ranks scholars that develop new philosophies and studies, school lighteyes, and spread the word of the Almighty and Heralds among lighteyes and darkeyes alike, as well as warriors as they are the group that trains shardbearers. To top it off they are all over Vorin countries, amid the high and low, rich and poor, kings and beggars. It seems unlikely they will watch the RK be refounded and most Vorin values be cast aside meekly. Although I'm sure that is what will be initially assumed and expected of them. Then again when was the last time such a potentially powerful group was left with nothing to do in a Sanderson book.

I've actually sometimes wondered if Szeth might end up empathizing with Adolin. Szeth feels as if men used the law to use him for their own purposes (that he hadn't even broken the law is another ball, as he said something that covers this sentiment in Edgedancer). And that the law can be twisted by evil men to do as they wish. If a skybreaker landed on the middle of a Urithu when all Alethi nobility is gathered, wouldn't he see that absolutely every highprince had broken some kind of law, yet it may be just Adolin that gets lynched? I think part of why this speculation is so hard is that we know very little of the orders beyond windrunners and lightweaver, of course that is also part of what makes it so fun . As to the discussion of whether Adolin would become a Radiant, truth be told the process to decide which kind he could be has been a rather rough elimination: Windrunner: Doesn't fit ideals Skybreaker: Debunked via Wob Dustbringer: Maybe, but possibly debunked as WoB says we haven't seen POV from dustbringer yet, unless he meant flashback character Edgedancer: Maybe Truthwatcher: No clue Bondsmith: Doesn't fit ideals Lightweaver: Doesn't fit ideals Elsecaller: Doesn't fit ideals Willshaper: Maybe, don't think we know enough about them to say one way or the other Stoneward: Maybe? Can we honestly say that if it weren't for the popular awaken blade theory we would be so focused on Edgedancers for Adolin? He does after all show traits that fit into many orders.

I was always a bit leery of Gavilar, as the people that thought fondly of him were: Sadeas, anyone that he respects is going to be a chull Amaram, same but even bigger scale Taravangian, uhhhh, this is the guy killing the poor and homless and pulling Szeth's strings to kill all authority figures in Roshar, right? Dalinar, who was so riddled with guilt over being drunk while his brother died that he would worship him even if he were a serial killer Elhokar, who just wanted to be worthy of being a king and would do anything to gain respect, since his father was respected, he idiolized his father Numerous highprinces and lords and ladies who just wanted to kill a few hundred/thousand men forever to get richer None of those seem reasonings attached to people that I would think they simbolize respect. The highprinces are definetely a group that if you earn their respect that is a major sign you did something wrong. Taravangian is his own weird thing, but he is on a path to destroy all, what he intends to do at the finish line non withstanding. And Dalinar and Elhokar were just wrapped up in their personal issues and how those link to Gavilar, I'm not sure they respected Gavilar, as much as they felt they had to respect him and what he signified. Edit: Maybe OP should consider renaming the thread to "Ramblings"or "Join us down the rabbit hole"

You never know where the paths may go, but at the moment there seems to be a good chance that if the Knight Radiants are being refounded with Dalinar at the center, he may eventually need to welcome, or at least come to an understanding with Szeth, specially as the skybreakers seem to be tagging along with him. Which if it happens will be huge regardless of where it happens. Also, Dalinar may not be too good in the battlefield, partly because he is after all not so young any more, and battle is the place for the young. But mainly because it would be too reminiscent of the Blackthorn. How can he refound an order based on honor, peace and respect when his allies will see only the bloodthirsty, ruthless, honorless Blackthorn when he is out fighting? Regarding the Honorblade...I can't really think of a good candidate. Navani is as good as any, Elhokar might be an option if he could be trusted further than he could be thrown (without plate) .

I originally made this thread to address the ideas of philosophy, morality, and justice, both in Roshar and in our world, and what each person's point of view and personal beliefs are in these areas, as such the discussion has been totally on point. That been said, I don't have anything against threads that go off topic, as I believe some of the best nuggets ever popped up when wandering in unusual directions . Adolin has always been one of the most fascinating characters for me, as he is in many ways all the ideas of "the perfect prince/knight" but as he would be in reality, not in a fairy tale. And as the books progressed, the fantasy was slowly removed layer by layer to show all the truth underneath. The second reason why I find him a wonderful character is that one of the attributes he values most is loyalty. And loyalty has always been one of the most important attributes for me. Everything else can be reduced to loyalty; truth, love, been a protector, a leader are all forms of loyalty. Part of why Dalinar never clicked for me is because he does not seem to feel the same loyalty to his son than he does for...anyone else, he just uses him as a tool as needed and didn't care for anything else. I was absolutely thrilled when he killed Sadeas, as I really don't see how there can ever be forgiveness or redemption for slaughtering 6000 men and accidentally falling short of 8000 for...power? removing a political enemy? Because it wasn't even for a kingdom/throne, as all princedoms are so split that it isn't as if Alethkar can be called solid enough to inherit together through mayhem. At the point at which all the players were, the options were to allow Sadeas to continue evading justice (and lets not even get into the deaths of all the bridgemen, which from our world philosophies is practically murder too), to kill him themselves, or to send assasins to do it. Sending assasins is just piling up hypocrisy, like Liss and Jasnah said in the WoR prologue, lighteyes dealing with assasins with their noses in the air pretending to be better, just because they don't want to get their hands dirty. Which is just semantics, as the person is as dead as if you just done it yourself, just gain distance for plausible deniability. Adolin did what had to be done, what everyone else was dithering over doing and what long term might have risked Roshar itself if it wasn't done. And while I do think that it is always possible to gain redemption, I also think that once you cross a certain line, only death can be your request for forgiveness and your penance for it. Sadeas had long since crossed that line. I think that whichever Adolin's path it will be unusual. I certainly hope he does not get shoved aside, as he has many possible arcs and hidden depths.

Wayne: "Proper loafing requires company. One man lying about is being idle; two men lying about is a lunch break" “What I need to do,” Wayne said, “is get the whole city drunk.” MeLaan: “Or, you know, advocate workers’ rights to bring down working hours, improve conditions, and meet a base minimum of pay.” “Yeah, yeah,” Wayne said. “That too. But if I could get everybody drunk, think how much happier this city would be.”

There was a brief excerpt of him in one of the newsletters of Bands of Mourning. You can find them on art gallery of Brandon's official webpage.

I have only been around the forum for a little over half a year, so sorry if this has been done before. This question was sparked because Adolin’s actions seem to be one of the most popular discussions in the 17th Shard. Nearly everyone has an idea of whether what he did was good, evil, or something in between. I started this poll as I got curious from what @kari-no-sugata said in another thread about the different philosophies of Roshar and how they apply to this situation, as well as seeing some specific numbers. So my question was, which philosophies do the Sharders ascribe to in this situation?

If you have any questions about Adolin, about every piece of speculation in the past 3 years ask Maxal, she is an Adolin enciclopedia . Apparently there will be a Moash pov. Not sure how much we will see of Lift, the impression so far is her story is been saved for later. We may get some povs from some Bridge 4. Szeth unfortunately will be MIA till the end Warbreaker warning

I'm not sure I agree with this one. Most of the people we have seen in the Cosmere who were despicable were acting well within their rights. The Lord Ruler? Might makes Right. Sadeas? No trial of Alethkar would ever have found him guilty, as he always acted within the law and his rights. And what about every single repugnant noble in Scadrial Era 1? Killing skaa, drowning children, raping women, all within their rights. That doesn't make any of what they did any less wrong. I wouldn't put Roshone on the top 5 Cosmere despicable list, but on the top 10 definetely yes. He treated people like trash, he got good people that could actually do something other than lounge around get killed in his greed, then despised other people that again could actually do something like a child throwing a tantrum. Laral doesn't seem someone to despise, but definetely someone to hold in contempt. She might just have been an object to be sold and bought, but she also had some power in that she wouldn't be harmed or thrown away, she could have been a lighteyes who was kind to others and who still showed fondness for a darkeyes friend. It isn't as if she would have received much more than a raised eyebrow or lecture. Instead she chose to be a snob like every other lighteyes despite having grown up with a darkeyes that seemed to have 5x her education, inteligence and knowledge. Just because you accept your place in society, doesn't mean you can't do it your own way. Other lighteyes likely have the excuse they never met a darkeyes on equal terms, like nobles in Scadrial that honestly beleived skaa were another species. Laral does not have that excuse.