WhiteLeeopard

There is definetely a piece or several that we are missing. Some orders are nearly based on sacrifice, and some individuals would never kill their spren no matter what the cause. Madness doesn't entirely make sense, as it seems impossible that madness would come upon all the radiants together at the same time (as the Recreance was very fast, not accros years or decades I believe). Even going to Braize does not seem enough, some like Szeth would be honorable to a fault, if their fate was to spend eternity suffering some would do so stoically. Their presence perpetuating the desolations is a tricky one, this could be the most likely one, but even then it seems...to not entirely fit. They had been around for centuries without Desolations, why not, if they decide to stop the Radiants, just ask the spren to stop bonding with men? Elsecallers could apparently do a lot in Shadesmar, and had contact with the spren. If they did that the Orders would disappear after that generation died AND they wouldn't have to kill their spren to stop the cycle. This is even further complicated as we are not sure it is true that radiants cause the desolaations. None of these seem truly satisfactory, at least not on their own. The one piece we do know, is Mr T likely knows it (or knew on his day of making the Diagram), and knows it could be used again to topple the RK.

If I were Dalinar I would kick the Alethi out of Urithiru and send them back to Alethkar to tend their hearths, telling them to prepare for the Desolation and promising to help when the time came. I guess that explains why I would never be a Bondsmith .

Honestly, many of those degrees are mostly in USA. In most of Europe murder is murder, and even if it is in self defense it never goes fully unpunished, with the possible punishment been from a fine to 10 years in jail. Yes, the conditions and circumstances can alter the punishment, but it is rarely given a pass even with the best reasoning in the world.

Brandon is not averse to killing characters, but he only does so after their story lines have been completed. Adolin may die, but I think it unlikely that he will die before his story is finished, and right now it is far from finished. Its why people had such mixed feelings about mistborn era 1 ending, it hurt, but everyone knew it was the right path and felt satisfied with it. Maxal, could you point me in the direction of those WoB? I think I have fallen behind on recent ones.

Wasn't the goal of the Sons of Honor to bring back the Heralds? I'm not sure the radiants or uniting others was their goal. Unity was Gavilar's aim, who had some deep connections to the Sons, but not directly the organization's aims. At least that is not the impression received from Amaram. I could see Amaram making a play for highprince, but his main aim will probably have something to do with Taln (or whoever he is), whom he picked up at the end of WoR. However, I definetely feel that Amaram's role is far from over. Why? Hoid. It is rare for Hoid to single out individials that he doesn't like, and he made it a point to say that Amaram was much, much worse than Sadeas would ever be.

Antagonist 1. a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary. 2. the adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work Considering that in their minds very few people consider themselves evil or to be doing something wrong, I would understand this question as, will radiants oppose each other at any point in the story? And my answer is a resounding yes. It may not be permanent at any point, but even of the ones that we already know of they have very different goals, some of which would not agree with each other. For example, Szeth wants to have revenge in Shinovar, or at least we got that impression. That is something which right away Dalinar and Kaladin would be very strongly against. As for if I think that radiants will oppose each other personality wise, my opinion is yes too. Some of them already have bad history with each other. I could also see some like Jasnah and Lift being so completely different from each other that they might not be able to work together, and could even oppose each other, Jasnah looking at the forest, and Lift at the trees.

I know Elhokar has his reasons for being as he is, but that was never a good enough excuse for me. If he personally gets dozens killed for his ego, its on him, regardless of circumstances and conditions. If he throws away all the careful preparation his family had done, and risked, to trap a powerful enemy because of a fit of anger, its on him. If we started considering all the conditions and stress people were under when committing a crime I'm sure no-one would be guilty of anything as everyone has good reasons for it. A person that is scared when they shoot someone to prove how strong they are is no less a murderer. That been said, while Elhokar irritates me, I don't think he is what would be qualified as evil, so far, there is still enough room for him to become better in my eyes, but so far he just irks me. Also, awesome signature aemetha!

Elhokar is a character which has always slightly pissed me off. Mainly because he seems to have a lot of faults due to carelessness, which to me is a lot worse than selfishness, or anger issues, or fanatism. Just been uncaring of whether people die for him, or his uncle is in danger because of him etc. If this RAFO turns out to be hiding something it might be interesting, and start showing Elhokar in another light. Also, congratulations @maxal on new title! Although I find it a bit creepy that the title after Radiant Knight is Voidbringer .

Dang, I'm not too active for a couple of weeks and return to find the shard full of new members! The approaching date of Oathbringer is starting to have effects Calderis, what is your new title? As I can't remember which book Gerontarch is from... Regarding the topic, no I find it hard to believe from what we know so far that Adolin will be the traitor. Something to keep in mind is the backcover blurbs and the "one is a traitor to the others" is made by completely different authors. I know that Adolin is an interesting character (he is one of my favorites) but I never really get why people dump him on the dark side so readily. He just killed someone that every single reader and almost every pov character wanted dead, what is wrong with that? Also, if we use the argument that there can only be one radiant of each order, then Roshar is definitely in deep muck . 10 vs thousands of voidbringers, unmade, and other unknown nasties...you know what, I'm starting to reaaally sympathize with the Heralds.

I started the series hating Mat. By book 3 I liked him. By book 5 I loved him. By book 7 he was my favorite character. Brandon definitely missed with his character, specially at first, but I don't hold it against him. Mat must be one of the most complex characters to write I have ever read, and I truly doubt anyone could have done a better job without years of preparation to get "into his head". I really enjoyed the Perrin adventures in the Two Rivers. But his adventures in Ghealdan bored me to death, and Faile always set my teeth on edge. I didn't like any part of Ebou Dar at best, and hated it worst. Actually, thats a lie, I loved seeing Mat leave it as it meant he was going elsewhere .

Personally I'd be happy to always have him around. After all, the world could do a lot worse than having someone who cares for the people, even if not always for the right reasons, to keep an eye out and protect them from some of the worst elements that can rear their head. He is not, and I doubt he will ever be a shining white hero, but those are boring anway and are often very limited by their codes. Maybe he will die some day, but his journey would have to be completed, and I feel it will take a very long time for that to happen, if it ever does. Even if the Beyond is a happy, peaceful place, he is not the person to be happy doing nothing other than basking in "heaven", but rather someone that always is most alive when doing something, the bigger the scope the better.

I find it hard to believe a Herald would cause such a ruckus. All heralds we have seen seem to want to keep a relatively low profile and not cause excessive waves. Even Nale just hunts those that will not be missed. And what Shallash does could just be attributed to random rascals.

I have to admit I just mildly like Spook. I enjoy reading about him, but in a neutral sort of way. As such, never really got why he got singled out of the original crew to lead the new world. All I could see is that he was young and the others didn't really fit (although a world led by Breeze would be absolutely hilarious).

The problem of giving himself up or confessing, or other ideas along this lines because it is "the honorable thing to do" is always the same. Alethi society is not honorable, is not fair, and is not just. Acting with honor when no-one else does, doesn't mean you set an example for others, it just means you get trampled, the honorable people die, and just the filth is left (this was basically a big part of what the whole Dalinar-Adolin storyline in WoK was about). I think Adolin needs to let the truth off his chest, but that doesn't mean he should give himself over for Sadeas. Trusting Renarin, Shallan, and Kaladin when he returns for moral support would cover this quite nicely. And they could tell him their opinions on the matter, which would reinforce keeping it relatively silent. After all Renarin would likely support his brother no matter what, Shallan would be quite fine with it, and Kaladin might have sworn his oaths but that doesn't mean he hates Sadeas any less, and he still firmly believes he escaped justice. After all, I would be hard pressed to see how Kaladin would see protecting Sadeas as "right", which is what his last oath comes down to.

Tsk, tsk. It may say "disgruntled", but its still quite clearly visible the "lackey" part too. And Odium does not seem the type of boss to let his employees leave with a watch and wave.

Ohhh, I see both Calderis and Extesian have identical rep despite 800 posts difference right now, I can see how that would spawn conspiracy theories. And Calderis, I remember not too long ago when you were "Torturer of Heralds", and now you are "Radiant squire"? Fess up! How did you "escape" Braize? Is your Radiant master Odium aligned? You must be a good squire to be taken from Braize when he left...This definetely backs up the theory, working with Odium and a few months later a "hero in training" in Roshar?

I just want to know who would win a card game between Kelsier and Wayne .

It's entirely possible Syl was referring to honorspren here, after all Szeth was showing the powers of a Windrunner, and we know from Nohadon Honorspren are the most discerning of all. Great post .

Szeth, Windrunner Honorblade and Nightblood all been fed for 30min? Not sure anyone other than a Shard can beat that. Just needs a nick with Nightblood and over. Plus we don't really know what Nightblood can fully do when drawn, but can guess it will be major.

It's just very likely too that Gavilar would have never progressed beyond the first oath. Only person we really saw doing things before the second oath was Kaladin, and it just seemed drawing in Stormlight and some very low strength surges. Maybe Gavilar would have been at that level forever, or even the bond eventually broken and the Stormfather moved on. Honor in the narrowest sense of the word could be interpreted as just following a code, but there are some powerful links that are closely related too, such as fairness, integrity, standing in for the weak. It seems a bit hard that the Bondsmiths, the leaders of the KR would just be interested in uniting some. We get the impression Syl asks Kaladin to save Dalinar in tWoK because he was a proto-Bondsmith and was pulling Kaladin towards other radiants. From what we have seen of Gavilar he might well have been saved, then given the bridgemen right back to Sadeas as a lowly bunch aren't worth having a fight over with Sadeas. Gavilar also always rubbed me the wrong way. Even worse than Taravangian, and in his case we directly see what he is doing. Even now can't pinpoint why. I'm not saying I don't believe there could be less honorable, or even evil Radiants, as I do, but I still believe (or want to believe?) they were an anomaly and not the norm. Reasons for backing up this claim are: Desolations happened a lot closer together before, and the protocols in place were much stronger. Not going to have as much time for politicking as they do now, and not many with two brain cells will be starting a fight over who controls a piece of land, when said piece of land will be gone if they don't get their act together for the Desolation With stronger protocols in place, and less incentives to break the protocols it seems hard to believe a large number of KR will be pulling in different directions Heralds were the head of the orders, and the KR would likely just go where the Heralds pointed them with almost zero complaint. Any infighting over what to do would be among the Heralds themselves, and they would likely keep it quiet and low-key Of course, looking at this it just could mean this new Desolation, which is looking to be a first for many things (such as Radiant Parshendi and no Heralds leading the charge) may also be the first time ever the Radiant Knights truly split up beyond amicable bickering. One of the biggest issues so far is that no-one believed there was anything bigger than business as usual coming, as such they saw no need to change their behaviour. Some people, will likely never believe, and never change it, specially as it is improbably the Heralds will publicly arrive to announce a Desolation any time soon. As such, dissidents will be a major threat to humanity, they will most likely have to get on with the program or be removed *cough-Sadeas-cough*.

When reading slowly there are some parts there that seem particularly interesting, as usually discussion focuses on the four. Bolded the relevant parts. Longing for the days before the Last Desolation seems madness, after all it was Desolation after Desolation, with humanity been practically wiped out over and over. Makes one wonder what happened afterwards to make that constant destruction seem something to yearn for. Even the destruction of Aimia doesn't seem enough, unless the scouring was a lot more major than we have guessed at so far. "KR turned against us" seems quite specific, and it actually lends credence to all the religions that say the KR betrayed humanity, except maybe it wasn't humanity they betrayed, but the Aimians. However, since he says the KR betrayal is when things started going wrong, that clashes with the timing of Aimia, which we know is a lot more recent. "Magics of ancient days can become ours again" raises some questions, such as was the losing of those magics linked to the breaking of the Oathpact? The Recreance? Why is it so important that the Heralds turned their backs on them? How can they recover the magics? The same way the spren are returning? Just because a new Desolation is coming? Is this reaffirming Gavilar's belief that humanity needs a threat to be united? Finally, it seems interested that it says one of the four may "redeem us", not save us, just redeem. What did they do to need redeeming? Is it been redeemed in the eyes of Honor, or the KR, or another party? Sorry if these have been asked before, most comments on this I have seen focus on who may redeem, and who will destroy. If they have been answered, is there a specific thread to look at?

First time I read that comment I assumed it meant readers that love Dalinar would have many of their illusions about him shattered. What is worse than seeing your heroes die? Seeing your heroes are not so heroic.

It's in the 15-20 year gap between book 5 and 6 of Stormlight. But that still means Hoid running off to Scadrial and been a bit tight for time to impersonate someone for years.

That's also why I am dreading seeing him in the future. It is too hard to watch your heroes fall. Specially favorite-by-cicumstances hero ever. If its an inner struggle it would still be better on the shadows.

The first threads to explode on the 17th shard will be funny due to the high incoherentness of people writing on sleep deprivation My schedule that day is planned to be, read, read, read, eat ocassionally, sometimes wc, finish, crash in bed, sleep 24h, then 17 shard .