WhiteLeeopard

Agree. I didn't mention him as was thinking of this thread as overhyped from readers perspective, but looked from in world perspective I agree Dalinar is off the charts. Then again the most in-world overhyped character is probably Gavilar .

Nightblood didn't appear on WoK. Madman appeared with another Blade, and Hoid didn't take it, although he may be aware of who did.

The main question which actually I was left with after this prologue was, why after Gavilar died did he ask Szeth to leave a message for his brother? At the time of the first prologue it seemed totally logical. But at this point, the one thing that has become completely obvious is how Gavilar was surrounded by all sorts of people, except for his family. Did he "see the light" as he died? Otherwise, shouldn't he have realized that Dalinar would easily have come into huge conflict with many of his toadies? I suppose that he trusted even the person that had just killed him more with the sphere than anyone else that might have found it on his body might be a sign of changing his mind on his last minutes alive. However, the other option is that something we still don't know happened after his talk with Jasnah, which from the timeline I believe is the last person we see Gavilar speaking to that night. Barring Sadeas, who we assume he spoke with when they changed armor. About this thread...4 pages and I suspect still 2 more to come from a prologue most of us had already read. Every week from now on is going to be insane. And I sincerely hope the 17th shard doesn't fall the week after OB release due to exploding threads.

One of the women could be Adrotagia. Me gut feeling is that Navani isn't there, but at this point nothing would surprise me .

While all that you said makes sense, keep in mind that not as many people were as hyper excited for WoR as they are for Oathbringer (OB?). Brandon has gained many, many fans on the past 2 years. And the forums have also gained a lot more participants. p.s. what time on that day do the chapters come out?

@FiveLate Your posts are always really good, I have also given you quite a bunch of upvotes. I'm really sorry to see you go, and hope you will return. I don't understand why some people are here to be a-holes, as the 17th shard is very nice, and it is one of the things I enjoy the most. And although I saw a topic about this before, I didn't comment, I've seem a few times what I deemed "unfair" downvotes, so upvoted just to set it right. Only time I find downvotes to be "fair" is when they are related to rudeness. So, think of it this way, if you see on notifications a reputation sign, but no chanes, it means someone downvoted you for mysterious reasons, and someone else came to even the score as they disagreed with the downvote. All the best, and good luck with everything.

You sure there weren't hidden spikes involved?

I have always felt that if indeed the characters decide someone must go to be tortured to Braize in the Herald's place to give the world time to prepare, it would be Szeth. It makes sense within his character, he will do whatever honor/the law demands of him, and he always expected to be tortured in the afterlife anyway. To add to that, we know he is one of the few characters that barely changed from the original outline. So, what does he have to do that is so clear, which was always going to happen? Sacrificing himself in a heartbeat to give time for the world makes complete sense, besides he is already insane, so it isn't as if his noggin will be too different afterwards .

Yes, true, sometimes I feel I forget the most obvious points ^^. But then that goes on to enhance my original point. I know this has been discussed multiple times, but basically seems windrunners can kill their spren by accident, and others like lightweavers need to do it fully on purpose. Curious to see where the bondsmiths fall on that spectrum.

Thats a question that has been bugging me for a while, as Bondsmiths seem to be the KR leaders, but the Bondsmith Herald was not the leader of the Heralds, rather it seemed to be the Windrunner Herald was the leader. Of course we saw so little in the prologue it could have been misunderstood. What I am curious to find out is how easily a Bondsmith can break their oaths and what that would do to their spren. We have already seen both Kaladin and Shallan kill their spren, but personally I found it particularly tough for Kaladin/windrunners, who did it mostly by accident; while for Shallan it was much more on purpose.

I voted Stormlight, but it was a tricky choice, as Harry Potter and the Wheel of Time are also stunning in their own way. Mistborn was under consideration for having created Kelsier, who is the best character ever written, but ultimately focused on series and not on character. Wonder if Dune and Xanth belong in the list too, then again its already quite long.

Once the whole book comes out, lets just discuss it as a whole, opening threads for particular characters and events as we need/want them. As I think most people here will just read read read till its over. Then the strongest will come here to open threads while the rest sleep for 20h .

Top Oathbringer theory: 17th Shard will examine every sentence 20x over, while wringing out all its possible meaning.

Oh maxal, I know you don't generate all the discussion, but you often bring up many of the most important points of Adolin, and see the hints that are hidden that not everyone (actually not many) easily see on first sight. I also wasn't too warmed up to Jasnah at first, but I view her more positively after digging through her parts in detail. Renarin...lets say I understand how he can become interesting in the future, but he isn't yet, and is unlikely to be for a while, so in a way I find him hyped as I don't understand why get excited for something we all know won't happen for probably 10 years.

I'll expand a bit on Extesian's Szeth answer since he is one of my favorites. First, I will always remember him fondly as he was the most badass character to appear, and introduce us in the prologue to what SA had in store for us. Then, he is still a very badass character all through the books we have seen even after other characters were introduced . The idea of a character on exile away from your people, yearning to come back but unable to is something which I also find quite fascinating. The fact that he is being punished for something raises the question of what was his crime. One of his most impressive attributes is his sense of honor. That he hates what he does but does it anyway, as it is what his laws state he must do to do is another. Some say he is the most despicable characer in SA, others that he is the most honorable. I am on the second boat. He is also our only doorway to the shin people, which by themselves are fascinating, considering they are utterly different from any other roshar society or even landscape. What they are doing with the Herald's Honorblades just makes the Shin questions all the more burning. Then, to cap it off for finding Szeth interesting Warbreaker spoilers p.s. should my spoiler be in spoiler tags or is it ok to put it out of it in SA forum?

I think many in the 17th shard owes maxal for how Adolin is often viewed here. For me he is, and was always one of my favorite characters. However I completely agree with you that his starting friendship with Kaladin is one of his most important facets, and his romance with Shallan one of the least interesting ones. I adore his character, but I would be perfectly fine if he and Shallan amicably split up and he continues his growing friendship with Kaladin. Edit: Opinion ninja'd by Calderis, so answering him I disagree, I don't care much for the Chasm scene, its the villain-cleanup that I loved. Although having a shining protector in general for his father, brother, family and men is nothing to sneer at, he is very loyal to his people, and loyalty is one of the best attributes a person can have in my opinion.

I think this will be my first post ever about the storming stick. I never got the stick joke. I will never get the stick joke. I am tired of reading about the damnation cursed stick. Couldn't those of us whose patience is up with the bloody stick not ever ever ever mention it again? Not say anything good, not say anything bad, just... is there any chance to shelve it forever?

Yes...but at the same time most records say Lightweavers were often dedicated to arts and music. Then again, there would always be the outliers, like Lift most likely will be for the Edgedancers. Fully an Edgedancer, but still very different from most in her order.

Fair enough. I picked mistborn and TLR. Although for our world I would have most likely picked feruchemy if it were an option . I do however think my opinion could change as we find out what other radiant orders could do. I do like the lightweaver powers and ideals, but unfortunately I cannot draw anything more complex than stick figures, as such I always feel that seems like an impossibility for me . RK orders have far too many requirements.

I'd like to think most people have more empathy than that. What if your actions end up killing all of your family? Would they be able to go through with it? Then again, people have shown many times a willingness to go along with a plan when it is other people suffering, and then balk when it comes to personal sacrifices. It is entirely possible the Diagram followers will try to jump off the wagon as they lead to more personal issues and deaths.

Fair points. Dipping into mistborn spoilers. That still makes Mr T a villain for me, as even with the best reasons he is going for the path of destruction, when he does not even know himself the endgame of the diagram. More precisely been, the wrong things, for the right reasons, for an unknown destination. Basically: T: "I am going to save humanity!" Interviewer: "Thats wonderful, how are you going to do it?" T: "By following the instructions of the Diagram which I made on a day of super intelligence and zero empathy" Interviewer: "And what is the final state which humanity will be in after you save them?" T: "I have no idea" How the Diagram finds so many devotees, without finding issues with points two and three is beyond me. Which is why I will not believe T can become a Bondsmith (or any radiant) till I see it. Edit: Partly ninja'd, maxal and I think far too similarly, although her posts are much longer and better .

In a nutshell, the way I see it Mr T is doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Makes him a villain for me, if a reluctant one. TLR did the wrong things for the semi-right reasons. Makes him a full blown villain for me. I never ever wavered on seing him in a better light after reading HoA, although that seems to be a rare opinion, with many having softened towards him after learning what he did to keep Ruin in check. Not me, why? Because he could have kept Ruin in check without turning his empire into a pit of slavery, horror and poverty. Kelsier did the right things for the wrong reasons. Makes him a hero for me. Overall, actions are what matter in my opinion, the reasons just add dimension and depth, but the final judgement is based on actions. P.s. Kelsier is my favorite character too, I think Brandon did something deeply right with such a mixed and spectacular character. Whether love or hate, Kelsier is a character that seems to have deeply impacted most of his fandom.

Even the prologue may have some nice tidbits, as the one we got was a very rough version.

I think a common issue I see in this forum (and maybe occurs everywhere this discussion appears) is that the skills which radiants and mistborns have are meant for two very different things. While I believe a mistborn with all 16 metals could do a lot more damage on the battlefield than many seem to think, several of the KR orders are specifically meant for battle. As such, obviously a full radiant would be an amazing asset in a battle, its what they are built for. But mistborns thrive on shadows, confusion and assasinations, as such, saying radiants would do better on a battlefield as such they are superior is like saying mistborns could assasinate anyone as such they are superior. The two have too different competencies to easily compare side by side.

If they could get along together (Kelsier needs to be in charge, and Shai is very independent, as such this is not a given), they would make the best thieving crew in the Cosmere. No Shard, worldhopping organization or individual would be safe! They could probably steal Susebron's wealth of Breaths if they wanted to. Maybe Wayne could be a third addition for when they don't mind leaving tracks behind.