WhiteLeeopard

This is one of the biggest issues I've had with Dalinar. The Alethi should be kicked out of Urithiru, or at the least reinforced that they are just guests there. I understand with 10 (or less) proto radiants in the world that isn't something which can happen immediately, but I'd be very dissapointed if Dalinar actually tries to reinforce alethi laws in Urithiru. I also wouldn't be surprised if his main role is to unite the KR (obviously). As such, things certainly seem pointed to one of the biggest conflicts of Dalinar being having to welcome, or at the least, accept the man that killed his brother. Whether Roshar as a whole should be brought under control too remains to be seen. Then again, better to bring Roshar under them than to let T get it. A final point on KR roles, is that Kaladin may be forced to be the final leader. Which would certainly be funny to see the lighteyes in shock over this. As I wouldn't be surprised if Kaladin goes to efforts to let his eyes be dark now and then. Even for Dalinar this would be an adjustment.

Did anything ever come of this highprince and the foreign dignitary, or is it a thread to be later explored? Or yet another secret society? Considering it talks of the Tukari it may just be setup for the future. “I would say an excuse is something you claim, but do not believe, Nak-ali.” Hatham was using the high form of Au-nak’s name. “While a justification is something you actually believe.” Why such respect? The Natan must have something that Hatham wanted. The feast in TWoK where Sadeas says Dalinar is innocent of the attempt on Elhokar.

One interesting point that I don't remember seing, is that Alethi law may be pointless for this case. They were in Urithiru, the one place where we can be almost certain the only laws that applied were the laws of the KR. That may not be the case at that point, but it could be enough for a debate. An option for the future would be eventually declaring Urithiru under KR law, and find out about Adolin afterwards. No idea whether that would make things better or worse though. Although the idea that the person with more "right" to judge Adolin is Szeth cracks me up.

I suspect if Szeth were engaged and not falling appart at that moment he would generally win vs Kaladin. Kaladin is stunning, but Szeth is...something else. Granted, the field they fight in will really affect the outcome, but even with all of Kaladin's advantages Szeth ended up letting him kill him. Kaladin was slightly high from just swearing the third oath, his weapon changed instantly, and Szeth was losing brain bits per minute. And still Szeth kept it fairly close till the end, when Kaladin started getting the edge, and Szeth's remaining mind imploded. Of course, could also say Szeth is so used to dominating a fight, that anyone that can hold against him throws him off his game. Whether this is a disadvantage, or just shows how powerful he could be in the future once he has accepted the KR are back, as it won't take him so much by surprise, we will see.

I'm going over my reread of the first 2 books, and having some random questions. Wanted to make a thread to gather information specifically for SA, maybe to clarify a statement or question (not huge theories), or to nudge in the right direction if existing theories of it exist. My question that finally prompted me for this was from TWoK: “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!” —Dated Vevahach, 1173, 8 seconds pre-death. Subject: a prostitute. Back ground unknown. Are there any theories or threads on this?

No. Edgedancer is a novella. Warbreaker's main protagonist has a cameo in SA. And you get more info on the strange Shardblade Szeth got at the end of WoR.

He did. Sadeas said "Cool, lets set the date for next year". Something which he has done...I've lost count of how many times, lets say five as a nice round number. Dalinar response has been, "You don't understand Sadeas" or "We have other problems to deal with". Or as a super aggressive tactic "Lets take the Shards of those loyal to him". As Maxal said above, Dalinar's reaction to his death proves he was never going to deal with the Sadeas problem. As the only way to deal with the problem was death, (can't imprison a Shardbearer). If Jasnah had been there I bet a saphire broam she would have fixed the Sadeas problem a long time ago . And yes, I happen to agree that is what they should have done. My morals have never been the shiniest in the shelf... As for Syl, she didn't care if Kaladin wanted to kill Elhokar, her problem was that he had promised Dalinar he would protect him. She didn't want Kaladin to kill Amaram because he was focused on the past (venguance). When he said it was to protect those he would hurt in the future it was lip service. If he truly believed killing Amaram would protect future people I'd be very surprised if Syl had a problem with it.

Not bad example, but still cannot apply modern laws to Roshar situation. As in that case you can tell the cops you have been threatened, and they take him away. No-one was going to take away Sadeas. They have 2 highprinces on their side, not enough to charge him with anything. I'm not even sure if abandoning in the tower was treason, was just considered stupidity on Dalinar's part by the other highprinces, and a good point in favor of Sadeas for ruthlessness.

I think we already have a protagonist clash with a character that he hates and will likely have to learn to work with him: Dalinar and Szeth. Adding another would be too repetitive. As to how Kaladin deals with someone that hurt him deeply in the past, we may see it soon with Roshone. Amaram seems pointed to either take over Sadeas princedom, or be representative of SoH.

@Amanuensis I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it at all. I see Amaram as someone with a holier than thou attitude because of the gain it gets him, basically influence and glory. In the passage above where he regrets not killing Kaladin, if you go up a bit you can see he doesn't really regret losing Dalinar's friendship. What he regrets is losing influence over Dalinar. It took him hours to decide to kill Kaladin's men because he was breaking an ancient law (who kills the Shardbearer gets the Shards). Which is probably the most sacred law of all Alethkar. Sorry, but I maintain if he truly thought the Shards in his hands were the best for the kingdom (which reading that seems completely the typical thing a hypocrite says), there was no difference between asking Kaladin for the Shards, raising him to 1st nahn, and keeping him close to him as a trusted captain/whichever rank he wanted to give him. Also, Syl was already in the process of bonding Kaladin in Amaram's army, so he might have gone to Dalinar even without becoming a slave. As we have seen, spren bring the proto radiants together, specially towards Dalinar. Moash was revenge. Adolin was more slanted to self defense. Maybe not for himself, but for his family. Adolin had just walked up to Sadeas and asked what would he do now it was proved Dalinar was not insane, and he had been right. To which Sadeas answered, "I'm going to kill him just as I've been trying for weeks". Adolin knew perfectly well that wasn't a bluff or an empty threat, but the total truth. He saved his father from the previous assasination, but there was nothing to guarantee he would be able to save him forever from endless assasins. And what treason could the acuse Sadeas of? I don't think he had broken any laws. Actually, don't think highprinces can break any laws, other than kill the king.

I'd hate for that to happen. Blackthorn running off while high to kill is one thing. Coldbloodedly killing a group of your men that would have died to protect you, and selling to slavery a man that did a tremendous feat to save your life to steal from him is very very different. As Kaladin said, if Amaram had wanted truly what was best for Roshar he could just have asked him for it, and he would have given it to him. Kaladin had already said he didn't want the Shards. At that point, the only difference for Amaram was the glory of saying he killed a Shardbearer. Personal glory does not exactly seem like "what is best for Roshar". I'm sure he believes all the drivel he sells, but honestly that is just an excuse for personal gain.

That seems reaaally doubtful. Not that it wouldn't be hilariously awesome .

Something tells me that title will go to Amaram.

Many of these things have been said before, so I will just quickly reiterate some of the most relevant ones: House Kholin spent all of WoR trying to outmanouver Sadeas to kill him. They failed. And yes, having betrayed them at the tower, having gotten 6000 soldiers killed, and attempting to assasinate Dalinar on a bridge crossing in WoR was not enough to charge him of anything. Can anyone seriously tell me they believe they could have legally charged Sadeas of anything and gotten any more than a "bad Sadeas" speech as reprimand? At best, its not so impossible to imagine they would have said, nice backstabbing, you are the best alethi ever Stop applying our modern ideals, modern society, and modern laws to this situation. It is not. If you want to apply something from our world at least make it feudal system laws, as they are the closest to this. The most twisted thing is that if Sadeas were not a highprince I wouldn't be surprised if what Adolin did was legal, as he is the heir to a highprince. Top 20 most important people in the kingdom. Is it right for Adolin to be able to legally kill someone lower rank than him, yet it be murder if they are higher rank? No. Maybe that will be a reminder that this is not our world, or a fair, right, moral or just system. The moment that someone can tell me a feasible way that Sadeas could have been brought to justice other than killing him, I will bow out and accept what Adolin did was wrong. As a final point, it was said above Sadeas would have no influence anyway in the new world. 2 chapters into Oathbringer, and already every highprince that was not in the fight 6 days earlier with Dalinar is...doing what they always did, bicker, whisper and politick. They sure don't seem to have changed at all in this new world.

You should try Warbreaker as soon as you have time. May be relevant for Oathbringer.

Not in alethi society. Those things were glorified. I honestly wouldn't look for excuses to make Dalinar seem better then. He was a monster through and through, any good things came from carelessness or practicality.

That is not guaranteed, do we really think its so implausible for Cultivation or Odium to stick a piece at the end of the vision he is already having? Specially since the Stormfather didn't see it, and he should be able to see anything Honor put there.

Which was the gay one? Skar or Sigzil? In any case, thats the only one we can discard . And probably Teft, not grumpy enough.

I would love to see this, specially as I feel it would push him past many of the things that irk me about him. But at the same time...while Shallan faced and accepted her past, she did it becuase thats how her order works. Did Kaladin really face and accept his past? Not entirely... Although hopefully Hearthstone will be closed on this book.

The part of the sample chapters that I found the least interesting by far was the light and "champion". I am doubtful the vision showed the champion himself, at least the current one. If it was, I am almost certain it was not someone Dalinar knows. I don't know if the vision came from Honor, Cultivation or Odium, could be any of them. I don't know if the vision was sent from the past or the present. But for some reason none of these questions really engage me. Probably because I'm nearly sure it wasn't a person, at least not from the present, and that's what the discussion is focusing on. I got more the impression it was familiar because of the influence Dalinar has had from Odium/unmade in the past.

I'm not sure Dalinar stands for what is right in this situation. I think he is just blind and refusing to see the facts. "Sadeas was a brilliant general". Whose brilliancy consisted of his sociopathic ability to use people's lifes like cannon fodder. Something that would have likely made Kaladin kill him if he had tried it again. And on that line, people saying "Kaladin will be furious at what Adolin did". Kaladin swore the third oath! He didn't get a brain transplant! "I will protect those I hate, so long as it is right". Highly doubt he would have ever seen protecting Sadeas as something right. Sadeas had zero qualities to give the new world, he wasn't going to be anything but an impediment, and he would just cost lifes in the future, only question is how many. Dalinar just doesn't want to accept this. Probably, because as Calderis said, it would mean taking a long hard look at what he himself really was like in the past. Dalinar's blindness cost 6k lifes in WoK, and since he showed no sign of changing that part of himself, he might very well have cost all of Roshar due to his inability to see the truth in front of him. Fortunately he has a great son who saved him from himself.

He did? Damnation, this happens to me for having skipped most Shallan chapters in WoK in all my rereads . This sounds good, but haven't they been named Dawnshards too? Shards have a very specific connatation, both in Roshar and Cosmere.

I can't believe I didn't realize this earlier. But, Bridge 4 no longer seems to be the Kholin bodyguards. There is no mention of them guarding any of them, although they are clearly in the inner circle. I guess this makes sense. Renarin and Dalinar no longer really need bodyguards (or at least, if they need them normal soldiers, even squires like bridge 4 won't be enough to stop them). Adolin was always the one that least needed bodyguards, as he was young and capable (ironically he is likely the one that needs them the most now). Elhokar...who cares. Navani was never fully included in the list of those that needed it, was more a politeness than necesity. On top of that, it makes sense to have the squire group doing other things, even if their radiant is based on protecting, they may be needed elsewhere. And okay, in all seriousness if they are still bodyguarding someone its Elhokar. However, considering the other bridge crews were shaping up nicely, they could use those as bodyguards, and leave the squires (Bridge 4) free to do other things. What things, I'm not sure yet, but I bet we find out soon . Although maybe a couple are around Adolin since they have grown fond of him.

Maybe it is Lopen, maybe not. But awesome for putting this fragment here, hadn't seen it before. And yes, does seem to imply Bridge 4 joins Kaladin sooner rather than later.

They may have had reliable spies among the Alethi . Although now that I think about it, spionage doesn't seem too developed in Roshar. Thats a big deficit.