hoser

The double eye of the almighty:from tWoK. http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/File:Surgebinders.jpg It can seem a little arbitrary, but the top half surges are more physical and involved with bonding, hence more related to Honor. The lower half surges are more about life and change, so more related to Cultivation. The orders are the big circles and each order has the two adjacent surges (small circles). In theory the topmost spren like Syl are mostly Honor, where Pattern is more Cultivation. Basically, but I think it's more complicated. I think H+C chose the Heralds before Honor established the Oathpact with them. Then the H&C spren copied the Herald's swords/powers to bond with people and become Surgebinders (Nohadon's time). Ishar and the other Heralds then constrained the Surgebinders to become KR. Adonalsium had established the Highstorms and the listeners bonded with quad-gendered spren long before. After H+C came, then Odium came and invested in some beings, at least some of which were Listeners (are listeners the same as Dawnsingers?), which became the Unmade.

If you look at the surgebinding table, you have five male Heralds of Honor-y things on top and five female Heralds of more Cultivation-y things on the bottom. Less obviously, cognitive realm related powers are on the left and physical realm powers are on the right.

I think it's Dalinar. I quote the section below because it covers most of my thinking better than I think I could say it. Conceivably, the near-death experience either happened when he rescued/killed Evi or has yet to come. Perhaps when Mr. T attempts to assassinate him. Maybe he kills Evi, perhaps under the influence of the Thrill, and so fulfills the epigraph about killing someone who loved him. The other reason to write the book is to explain how he has changed so that he can "Unite them." His projection trick with the Stormfather may do some good, but it might not be enough. Perhaps he will write the book to demonstrate that he is no longer the Blackthorn and that he can be trusted.

Um, thanks, I think. So am I now obligated to find everybody of the rank "Herald" and downvote them until I get down-or-upvoted?

Generic answer for every mystery: Dawnshard

Maybe Heralds, but I would expect them to seem more powerful. The bottom one of the three on the left seems blue, so maybe from Natanatan? There is a diversity of racial types, but none seem clearly to have golden hair (Iri), diminutive stature (Shin) or epicanthic folds (Alethi, Veden) (maybe the middle one on the left).

I thought the dragon that Hoid was corresponding with was a Shard, but it's been a while and maybe I made it up. According to the quote below, there is a non-human Shard.

Mink and big chicken Hoid did have a correspondance with a suspected dragon Shard. I don't have an association for the big mink, though.

Nice! Cities with Oathgates in parentheses. But only nine. Missing the one in Shinovar? Names are relatively modern. Shattered plains is obviously post-shattering. People at bottom seem to be one each of racial types. Shallan once looked at a similarly distorted map. Is this similar or did Nazh steal it from the bottom of the ocean?

Beam me up, Scotty! I can't really explain it, but these seem like personal sized teleporters to me. The Oathgates seem kind of unweildy for solo travel. The clouded windows - could they be used to scry for locations to teleport to? They don't seem like heater fabrials to me. Assuming that there is power (stormlight) the planters make sense. The Parshendi used stormlight to grow more food than they would have otherwise. Once powered up, hopefully they can grow food. This place seems too big for the Radiants. Was all of humanity supposed to retreat here during Desolations?

Pedantically, since the original quote has a mink with a rat in its mouth, I'm saying that rats are not minks to Dalinar. Otherwise, the quote would be something like "mink with a mink in it's mouth," which wouldn't convey the correct idea at all. Yeah, big fan of all non-skunk members of the weasel family. please forgive my interruption.

I don't believe that they actually attacked anything. Abandoning the Blade and Plate, presumably while renouncing their oaths seemed to do it. They flew (or walked) in, lined up, and disarmed. Dalinar sensed the screaming in the dream and watched the glowing cease.

Stoneward unmade? Thunderclasts are made of stone, so maybe like a stoneward midnight essence? In chapter 4 of WoR they seem to arise from a large thing that looks like a spren to Dalinar.

I've read it. Not tWoK or WoR. A short story. Maybe in Arcanum Unbounded?

These epigraphs from the in-world WoR are often considered relevant to the Recreance: I copied it from here just to save typing, but may have introduced inaccuracy. This "wicked thing of eminence" doesn't sound like losing a duel with Odium's champion. Since I believe that the above quotes describe the Recreance, I am not inclined to accept the OP's thesis. There have been multiple Recreance threads and resources: here, linked Google doc by dvoraen, here, here and one of the progenitors. If you want to build on previous information and speculation and have time on your hands ...

I love this! Brilliant! Talk someone into committing suicide to trick the copycat killer into offing itself. Kinda dark, though. Unfortunately, I suspect Leyrann is correct. I would also guess that someone might have committed suicide somewhere along the line (fictionally, of course, but given the stress people are under ...), so it is conceivably proven already.

As far as I can tell, we violently agree that the Alethi laws are arbitrary . However, I disagree with the bolded (bolded by me) conclusion. Since almost any plot can be justified by in-world constraints, then you are arbitrarily forbidding me from judging the plot developments. Where's the fun in that? My argument for the plot being nonsensical is that Amaram is a confessed and unrepentant murderer. No orderly society would deny the public interest in disarming such. Killing them if they refuse to disarm is normal. If you want to argue that Alethkar is not orderly, but rather feudal, then the higher ranking noble would have emergency executive powers that would allow them to take action to remove a threat. Since Amaram has the option to disarm, not taking the option justifies killing him. 1. Not so. I think we saw this with the Blade that Amaram ended up with, but I'm feeling too lazy to look it up when I can quote another instance. Consider WOR chapter 15: Same book, same situation. Solved. 2. Dalinar doesn't have to hold a Blade at his neck forever. Just long enough to restrain him effectively. As for the resources. We have seen cells and guards. Alethi society has the resources to imprison a murderer for the weeks it takes to rebond the blade. But sure, maybe take option 1 then. Or we can easily come up with an option 3. The laws and rules that Brandon comes up with will support whatever option Brandon favors, as king of nowhere and I seem to agree above.

Um. The Cosmere doesn't really exist. Are not the Cosmere, Roshar, Alethkar and Alethi law all vehicles for Brandon to tell a cool story in a fascinating way? Sure, we can imagine and rationalize a hypothetical alethi law that Brandon could establish that justifies some character action. But that has no bearing that I see on discussing possibilities. If there is discussion about the laws, Brandon will make the laws support the story he wants to tell, but that tells us about nothing besides Brandon's intent. I don't get this argument at all. The alethi laws aren't real. Even if they support Brandon's plot choices, wouldn't it be circular logic? From Words of Radiance: Dalinar clearly has the drop on Amaram, who subsequently confesses to murder in front of multiple witnesses. Things will then play out however Brandon wants. Letting Amaram, a confessed murderer who says that he would murder again, go free with a Shardblade makes no sense. He is a walking emergency, a five-alarm fire. Could he be removed from the Shardblade? If you are willing to threaten his life, which Dalinar has already done, then yes. Here are a few ways that I have thought of, but Brandon could come up with others, I imagine: Demand that Amaram summon the Blade and renounce the bond on pain of death if he doesn't comply. This is the simplest, IMO. Demand that he surrender the blade and bind his hands or any other way he could wield the Blade. Kill him if he re-summons the Blade before it gets bound to somebody else. And then go get his Shardplate, which he admits is stolen. As I see it, if Brandon wanted Amaram dead from this scene, Amaram would be dead. Likewise imprisoned, disarmed or whatever. We want Brandon to tell the really cool story that he has imagined, right? My point is that it is unfair to judge Dalinar for a nonsensical plot point that massively affects the subsequent story. For me, this scene was strong in showing that Dalinar took Kaladin seriously, but at multiple points the mechanisms seemed forced. My fourth wall took a real beating.

He had a Shardblade to Amaram's neck, IIRC. It's pretty simple. Voluntarily surrender the Shardblade or die. If someone walks away with it, then Amaram can't make it disappear remotely. Imprison Amaram.

This is an interesting idea. I think it would be impossible to do without it being controversial. I think it is difficult for at least the following reasons: No view of alternatives: is something that apparently doesn't work a fail if the the alternatives would have produced worse results. Consequences: someone making a subsequent decision may turn a decision into a fail, but there is always a next move that could make the sequence successful. This overlaps with results-based analysis. Is it even fair to judge a decision by unforseeable results. Can a decision fairly be judged other than on the basis of known and knowable information at the time. Forced decisions: sometimes a failed decision can be more or less forced by a lack of palatable alternatives. Plot-driven decisions: given Dalinar's position, Brandon has to make him do stupid things to make the story come out as he wishes. As hard as the judgments are to make, judging the judgments is also suspect, but I would like to highlight some of these: I think you took on a challenging task here, so please don't take my feedback as purely negative, but I think your point of view affected your accounting.

Interesting discussion. Thank y'all! I am moved to speak on the Adolin-Kaladin-Shallan thing, but feel reticent as maxal has already (my judgement) likely articulated it better than I will I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am. I think Kaladin not finding time to explain to Shallan that he was the one that killed Heleran was moral cowardice, and even he would agree. I think Shallan is more upset with Kaladin killing Heleran (even though it is justifiable) than his not disclosing his role. Trying to stuff her confused feelings may well make them harder to untangle and deal with. Adolin has his own feelings, but he is not intimate with some of them. It could trace back to his family situation, or be his own burden. This makes it hard for his relationships to succeed and makes it hard for him to be with Shallan's feelings. Until he can be with his own feelings, it will be hard for him to empathize with Shallan. Yeah, he was preoccupied, but hopefully getting in touch with his feelings will fit with his "breaking" and allow him to relate more to others' emotions. Edit: This revelation could easily have been milked for more drama. Brandon's discipline is what gives me hope that he and I will survive to complete the series. I think he decided to not milk more drama out of it because he has so much more story to tell. Not that there won't be drama internal and between these parties.

I didn't see a topic for this, but please enlighten me if I'm wrong. I am naming it somewhat obliquely because there used to be a "feature" that allowed the titles of spoiler threads to appear in non-spoiler forums. I think I must have missed a part of Shallan's previous story where she observed this for herself, but if it's news to others, then there is the question of whether it's real. Edit: This was all I found (Chapter 13), and it doesn't seem as clear as Mraize claims: So the first issue I have is that the Ghostbloods believe: So the darkness and wrongness of this place are not on the axis of morality? They must be power, because they don't seem like loyalty to me. Whatever, the Ghostbloods don't make sense to me. Anyhoo, on to the hopefully answerable questions. I have learned so much from the 17th Shard hivemind and I understand so little that I thought to call on you again: Does this darkness relate to the stones being Unhallowed that Szeth could walk on them? Is this darkness part of why the Radiants abandoned it? Did the darkness contribute to Adolin losing control and killing Torol Sadeas? Is this malign influence encouraging further mayhem? Is it behind the replicated murders? Is it Odious, independent or an effect of the Oathpact? What is it's nature? Does Urithiru have a spren? Edit: Shallan can't draw it. She couldn't draw Cryptics, either. Probably not related, but perhaps similar cognitive causes. What are the even better questions that I have missed? Thanks!

Consider the epigraph (below) for the second chapter of tWoK. It seems to be from the point of view of a Knight Radiant. I deduce that the Knights knew about Shards from the Heralds and possibly also through direct knowledge. Since that is where the blades came from, a simple explanation would be that the Knights called them that and the name stuck.

I am not inclined to believe this for a number of reasons: 1. Shallash is supposed to be Jezrien's daughter. 2. I think they are widely divergent in appearance and age (I can look for documentation of this). 3. Ten is a lot of children, and not all children end up being compliant and exemplary. 4. ShallanKaladin references a Proving Day (below), which I think was where the Heralds were chosen, implying some sort of contest or selection process. Does any of this seem wrong? Do you need more? I hope this helps. Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 88). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

There are questions. 1. Is Dalinar's vision true? Simplest assumption is that Tanavast represented it accurately, Stormfather conveyed it faithfully and nobody (like Odium or the Heralds) tampered with it. 2. Did the other 7 orders quit simultaneously with the Stonewards and Windrunners? Simplest assumption is yes. The renunciation of knighthood was the Recreance. The Windrunners fly in, all glowy and awesome. They are functioning Knights. The Recreance hasn't happened yet. They take off their armor and drop the swords. The Recreance is complete. Nothing else happens on-screen. There was a high degree of coordination. Possibly every knight in 9 orders reached the consensus and acted simultaneously. That seems like a tremendous amount of discussion and planning. The bonded spren must have known about the plan. How do you make plans without something that is part of your mind knowing? The bonded spren may well have agreed with the plan. Syl can appear to anyone she wants and communicate. If the spren objected, they could have communicated their dissent or not cooperated. The Recreance was part of a plan. Some swords and armor were left deliberately in the hands of people not bound by oaths to use them responsibly. What could go wrong? The weapons and armor could have been hidden. Some fabrials were passed on. Other fabrials were hidden or destroyed. Most Oathgates were decommissioned, but not one. The Way of Kings and the ancient language were preserved at Vanrial.