hoser

The Highstorm that the Stormfather rushes occurs during the weeping, so there may be only one. A brilliant member has hypothesized that the Highstorm is similar to the shockwave of an explosion. If the map of Roshar we see is all on one hemisphere then a Highstorm could start at the Origin and weaken as it heads west, converging on a point opposite, to the west of Aimia. The oceans are named differently on the leeward and windward sides of the continent, suggesting that there is a huge distance between the sides of the continent. I baselessly speculate that the storm brings a swell with it as it converges, creating a huge whirlpool at the anti-Origin where currents redistribute the water lower down. This idea comes from the Wandersail story, but there are issues with the credibility of the story, as I can't imagine how the Wandersail could make it back to continental Roshar, having to sail against the Highstorms (although maybe during the Weeping?). As for the stormwardens, they seem to serve the nobility and maybe rich traders. With Dalinar and co warning governments of the untimely highstorm and various other apocryphal events, I imagine the nobility would hold off on beheading the stormwardens until they see what's up. Once the Everstorm hits, people will have bigger problems and are unlikely to blame the Voidbringer transformation on the Stormwardens. Basically, I don't think the Stormwardens are among the common people to be lynched and the people they are with will have been warned of events before the impact occurs. If there were a danger to the Stormwardens, they seem to have a communication network, so they could provide each other advance warning. Honestly, though, I don't understand why there is more than one stormwarden, as one set of calculations could cover the entire continent. A spanreed network could link people to pass on the information.

About the bridgeboy thing ... I think it is the "boy" part that is offensive. As far as I can tell, Kaladin identifies as a "bridgeman" and does not find it an offensive form of address, as in Urithiru where Navani calls him that. The "boy" part not only echoes United States racist history, but suggests immaturity and insignificance. While Kaladin is a bit younger than Adolin, his achievements, responsibilities and (arguably) maturity make it a belittling word for him. The quote about reviving the blade (thank you, ParadoxSpren!) is quite tantalizing. I read it not as suggesting that the original knight was alive, but rather that most wouldn't be able to revive the blade. Which would mean that some could. Possibly only those predisposed toward being Edgedancers? That could be very interesting. I'm sure others have commented extensively about Adolin's interest in fashion and the Edgedancer reputation for elegance. There are mysteries about Adolin that lead me to think that he is due more development. Why does he screw up his romances by flirting outside of them? Does he want them to fail? Does that relate to losing his mother? Fear of commitment? Why is he reticent about physical connection w/the women he dates? Strictly alethi propriety? This is not typical male behavior. Questions about sexual orientation? Not experiencing the Thrill in the climactic battle could be an evolution toward Radiance. It could also be due to the Unmade responsible for the Thrill being in Jah Keved. What did Danlan say that caused him to break off their romance? So Maxal, while his development will almost certainly fall short of your desires, I think you may have much enjoyment ahead. My main concern is that, as Renarin's brother, he may suffer from the twin problem. If there are twins and someone has to die, it seems that one of the twins is always disposable (e.g. Fred and George).

In addition to the excellent thoughts offered above, there seems to be more to this magic system than adherence to the oaths. Consider the data: Kaladin loses his powers when scrimmaging at the lighteyes training grounds (pre-conflicting promises) Kaladin's bond weakens after he makes the conflicting promises After the bond weakens, he can still infuse, but only when Syl is very near At a time when he is acting in a way that is fully windrunner compliant, Syl kills herself by forcing the power of the bond over too great a distance This leads me to the following conclusions: Kaladin does not have his powers when he is not acting to protect, but that does not weaken the bond. Conflicting promises weakens the bond, independent of the oaths. This makes sense to me when we think of how Syl describes herself in tWoK: "I am Honorspren, Spirit of Oaths. Of promises. And of Nobility." The power of the bond is affected by proximity. The spren can hurt themselves by "pushing" the bond past the normal power. All of these are aspects of the bond separate from adherence to the Oaths. As for free will, I would add to the above as follows. One can choose to not be as powerful. We all face situations every day where lying, cheating or stealing could gain us advantages. That does not compel us to lie, cheat or steal. We still can choose to act in ways that don't benefit us optimally. It is the same with the Knights and proto-Knights when they don't act in accordance with their oaths. In addition, there is the aspect of learning. Until Kaladin is faced with having to save Elhokar from Moash, he does not understand the issue that stands in the way of his advancement. So we see that Knights' development can stagnate because they lack understanding of what holds them back.

A word from the minor nitpick front Decimation has two meanings: taking 10% (90% survival) and removing an unspecified large proportion. Literally has two meanings: exactly and not exactly. I think you mean exactly 10% survival, but none of the four possibilities for the meaning of "literal decimation" means that: exactly 90% survival approximately 90% survival exactly an unspecified large proportion (is this interpretation an oxymoron?) approximately an unspecified large proportion (is this redundant?) Isn't english wonderful? I admire your certainty that the proportion is much larger than 20%. As far as I know, you are right. From my perspective, 20% would amount to a societal crisis and a huge disaster, as would 80% or anything in between. For dramatic purposes, I can imagine Brendan finding any of these suitable to his design.

This is a very interesting theory and it is fun to see bright people considering the various factors influencing Shin survival. Any scenario from near complete slaughter to disaster of epic proportions (loss of 20% of the population) seems possible to me. All the factors being discussed above seem influential, but there is one factor that controls them all, in my opinion. What story does Brandon want to tell? If Brandon wants the Shin effectively wiped out, he can make it so. If he wants them to be a society surviving a horrific experience and needing to rally to survive further hardships with the knowledge that their worldview is flawed, he will make that so. Consider the knobs Brandon controls to construct the outcome his story needs: How powerful is the storm? How effective were Dalinar's warnings? How sturdy are the Shin structures? How much protection do the Leeward mountains offer? What is the population distribution? How big is the population? How do the survivors react? rioting? helping each other? hopelessness? How much food is stored? How effectively does the leadership respond? ... With no evidence or justification whatsoever, I believe that there will be a traumatized society that survives. Brandon has gotten me interested in the Shin as a piece of Roshar. If the Shin are exterminated, what was the point of learning about their society? They have been a significant part of the history of Roshar and the story so far. It seems to me to be a more interesting world with the Shin being a factor. The dramatic potential of their Valley of Truth being founded on lies should make for a very interesting story as Szeth and Nale proceed. As a society more affected by Cultivation, they can help Brandon tell more of his story of Roshar, the Shards and the Cosmere. But don't trust my judgment, as I have often been wrong about Brandon's intent. I just don't think the physics of the situation will get in the way of the dramatic requirements of the story, particularly since the physics are unknown.

Exactly! Kaladin's parents were darkeyed and had a right of inquest. Remember the judge at Adolin's big duel. Even solid laws are meaningless without someone willing to enforce them. If the king doesn't want someone arrested, is it likely to happen? Brandon can make it happen so as to create what he considers the best story.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the way this plays out seems to me to be driven by the story Brandon wants to tell. We know so little about the world that Brandon can manipulate the backstory to create any scenario. If we take that as a given, we get to guessing what Brandon wants to have happen. Here are the most obvious possibilities I see: Adolin breaks, has crisis and is remade as a Radiant: This seems most likely to me. He is a major character chosen by a Ryshadium who has been becoming more honorable (he's even experiencing the Thrill less!) that could already have a spren (that he's not aware of) or be able to revive one from his sword. Adolin is executed: This seems anticlimactic and wastes investment in character Adolin continues as is: This wastes opportunity to grow Adolin as character and dramatic potential. Why even have Adolin kill him? Adolin turns to Odium: This seems unlikely given his trajectory, but would be amazingly dramatic Assuming he is not executed, does he get exiled? Does Brandon want Adolin together with Shallan and his family for the next part of the story? There's more potential for Adolin's development if he is apart IMO, but is a separate thread beneficial for the next book as a whole? Is there another thread that is going to occur anyway that he could participate in? If Brandon wants another thread, he can be exiled, separated by circumstances or take on a mission of some sort. Levers Brandon controls: What rights Ialai or any potential Sadeas heirs have (when Sadeas killed a highprince, Gavilar ended up with an ally (Aladar) becoming the successor) Who will even try to enforce such rights (is there even a semblance of an independent judiciary?)? Everything else in the worldCosmere

Maybe I'm missing something, but should there be some spoiler protection here? There seem to be serious Mistborn spoilers in the SA forum. Maybe the title of the thread should say "Mistborn spoilers." I apologize if it's not really an issue.

This part is well known. The spren are coming for their own reasons. Lift's spren tells her about the circle choosing her. There is also the Jasnah quote above. Syl tells Kaladin about needing to come despite the Stormfather's prohibition because of the storm to come. I imagine the Knights before the Recreance had similar interactions. That is not exclusive with the Knights exemplifying a virtue. This seems like a leap. What evidence do you have to support this? The characters associated with spren seem to be mending. Kaladin is working through his bitterness and need for revenge. Shallan seems stronger for Pattern's pushing her to confront the past. I understand that the quote at the back of the book can be interpreted to support the idea that the spren are helping break people, but the contents of the book seem to contradict that notion. This, too, seems like a leap. What evidence do you have to support that the Knights did it to hurt the spren? While it is not impossible, the Knights could have disbanded for any of infinite reasons. The Knights could have seen that in a contorted way they were supporting Odium or ultimately bringing harm to those they were sworn to protect. The knights were in the middle of a war. What if they found that the war was unjustified? The spren would have been around when the Knights planned the Recreance. The oaths died when the Knights abandoned their armory, not when they planned it. What if the Knights saw that the organized world govenment was not helpful in a world without Honor? The Dawnchant and The Way of Kings were both preserved by the Vanrial artists. What if the Knights had a plan for their Resurrection? The idea that the Knights did it to hurt the spren seems too petty to me. I could imagine that they foresaw a need for Shardblades when the Everstorm and did it as a way of arming Roshar against the Voidbringers more easily. This last is purely unsupported speculation and doesn't explain why they disbanded.

I think the spren do need some combination of investiture and cognitive activity in the physical realm to survive. Somehow people's thoughts give rise to spren. So if Odium wipes out intelligent life on Roshar and takes his Unmade to go hunt other Shards, the spren and Shadesmar will be diminished. This could be the self-preserving motivation for spren. It doesn't really fit that Syl broke Kaladin from what I can see. First Tien, and then Amaram seem to have been the impetus. It seems to me that he reached his suicidal low despite Syl, not because of her. Shallan has a father who has been under Odious influence for some undetermined amount of time. Her mother apparently tried to kill her. She hints that her childhood was truly miserable. I find it difficult to attribute her misery to Pattern. What I imagine is that her efforts to improve her situation were the lies that originally attracted Pattern. I wildly speculate that when she tried, with Pattern's help, to improve the family the first time, it frightened her mother into trying to kill her. So, while spren bonds being evil could motivate the Recreance, I don't really see evidence that the bonds are onerous in the activities of the spren or their influence on our protagonists. Consider the quote that partially inspired this theory: I think it is significant that it refers to Surgebindings and not spren. Arguably, Shallan, Kaladin, Jasnah, Dalinar, Lift and Renarin are having their already broken souls braced. I don't really see an example of surgebinding making someone more broken. While Shallan's father seemed to get worse with Odium's increasing influence, I don't know that Odium provides Surgebinding.

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Oathbringer has been dropped into an anonymous planter at Urithiru. This gives the title a lot of play with any combination of the following. Dalinar's history with the blade Dalinar's role gathering the Radiants Future developments with the blade (does Adolin retrieve it, does someone random pick it up, ...)

Just to increment the quote-dump and refresh the general 17th Shard information base. There is WoB (quote available on request) that Adonalsium was on Roshar and left significant investiture. There is WoB that Honor and Cultivation were on Roshar before Odium.

This is very interesting. I want to be careful to say this in a way that is not offensive or invalidating of others' opinions, so please accept my apology in advance if I fail. I see all three of these characters as victims of Brandon's plotting. I love the story, but there are places where characters do things that make no sense to me. As such, I just chalk it up to the man behind the curtain and don't really hold it against the characters. Elhokar Szeth Kaladin

Horses interbreeding with Parshendi. Apparently their genome is quite adaptable.

This one's easy . He could just make them up, since you haven't stipulated that they be a part of the Stormlight Archive. But I hope that no-one would ask the question, as it wastes an opportunity to learn something germane and interesting.

If only my RAFOs were so quickly resolved!

This is certainly an interesting idea. I fear that I may be misunderstanding, but I do find references to "cold" effects (quotes below). In addition, stormlight is basically investiture and guite powerful. I find it difficult to believe that it would dissipate with so little effect.

That's a really good point. I've been assuming that abandoning of the Shards was a violation of the first oath and caused the bonds to break. But the blades could presumably just adopt spren form in response and, voila, no violation. A conscious decision to abandon the bond could do it.

I agree that the lying to herself must have hurt the bond rather than the murders, but I think that refusing to acknowledge Pattern's existence could have easily played a part in weakening the bond. While I agree that the violation of being protective weakened Kaladin's bond, I believe that the conflicting promises also played a part. We saw when on the training grounds that Kaladin's powers deserted him when he acted beyond protection, but the bond seemed unaffected. Syl describes herself as quoted below. They also have a conversation wherein she more or less confirms that the conflicting promises weakens their bond. This effect seems to be independent of the oaths we've seen so far, although there could be a later oath that touches on promises. I think there are multiple ways to affect the bonds that also vary by order, but I don't think we have enough information to conclude that the first ideal has no effect. This is an overdetermined system, so multiple causes can combine in amplifying or interfering ways. It would seem that it would take a violation of the first ideal to cause the Recreance, as the orders have different ideals and nine orders quit simultaneously. But one order (Skybreakers?) did not quit. Was the Skybreakers' commitment to their other ideals able to allow them to overcome their commitment to the first ideal? Or was the cause of the Recreance something that violated each order in distinct ways? It seems that the Skybreakers didn't quit, but at some point they likely stopped forming bonds and all the people with bonds died off otherwise Nin's actions don't make any sense.

Really? That's not what I remember. Fatal, but no reducing to black smoke. Warbreaker spoiler

The Night watcher lives in a valley somewhere between Tu Fallia and Emul. It's on the in-book map and not in Shinovar at all. It's in the same general area as Urithiru.

The following is the only WoB that I am aware of on the subject. It doesn't seem to say that Parshendi can't be Radiants, but that they haven't. If you have a more definitive quote, I would like to see it.QUESTION How about the other way around? Can a Parshendi bond a KR spren? BRANDON SANDERSON Historically, the Parshendi were not made Knights Radiant, or the parshmen weren't. QUESTION Can they become squires maybe? BRANDON SANDERSON Historically they did not, but it's not impossible. Edit: ninjaed Edit 2: the interview database has other quotes that are similar, including the following: OUTIS Is Eshonai going to be a Radiant? BRANDON SANDERSON In the past, parshmen/Parshendi were not allowed to become Knights Radiant. However, what I said might imply that that could change. But no promises.

If Laral is married to Roshone, then giving her the original gems may be equivalent to giving them to Roshone. Kaladin does have gems, but I don't think they are really his. They have been lent to him for the journey, but I think they belong to the kingdom. I doubt he will be giving them away to settle an old debt.

If H+C brought the humans with them and the surgespren are composed of investiture from Honor and Cultivation, then they would not have been around before the humans were present. It makes sense to me that the power of Shadesmar would have been increased with the arrival of H+C+humans. Further, it may have taken time after the arrival of H+C+humanity for the surgespren to form, develop sentience, then the culture to decide to emulate the Honorblades. This would explain why Surgebinders didn't show up until around Nohadon's time, when humanity had been on Roshar for a significant amount of time. I interpret the listener songs about spren betrayal to be more from the point of view that "all your spren are belong to us."