Mid-range game 52: Guard Duty

[+Lotus she/her]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

@Lotus - What's the inactivity policy for this game?

I’m gonna say if you don’t show up to do anything for two cycles we’ll look at finding a pinch hitter

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I trust Kas, mostly because I just don’t think making the GC elim makes much sense, and his analysis and stuff feels like it always does: very helpful and like he’s actually trying to help. I can’t even imagine what elim!Kas would look like at this point.

[OOC: You and me both, bro. I hope this calamitous day never comes to pass ]

3 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I trust Kas, mostly because I just don’t think making the GC elim makes much sense, and his analysis and stuff feels like it always does: very helpful and like he’s actually trying to help. I can’t even imagine what elim!Kas would look like at this point.

[OOC: For a sudden, unexplainable and unexplained reason that cannot legally be articulated before the dispatched lawyers silence me, I have an immense and overwhelming desire to cry-laugh in the Hallendren jungle.]

Just now, Lotus said:

I’m gonna say if you don’t show up to do anything for two cycles we’ll look at finding a pinch hitter

[OOC: What I'd specifically like to ask is if there will be inactivity filter kills, if the yardstick involves thread presence (i.e. can an Elim hang back and just submit kill orders/orders/talk in their doc), and also, if you can't find a pinch-hitter, will there be a filter kill? @Lotus

It's probably easy for everyone to see what I'm getting at, but. Knowing whether Elims will be penalised for playing the low activity/not on the Shard game is helpful. If we know that players will be filter-killed if there's no pinch-hitter to be found, then we have to be prepared for a potential filter drop-off/die-off ahead, which can be a big issue given that ties already kill in this game.]

Karnan shrugged. As far as he was concerned, he wasn't particularly against having Greyhound Jack [=TUO]sent off from the table, though he wasn't especially fond of - had that guard called himself Faleast? - well, Faleast's [=Ashbringer] reticence. All things considered, he wasn't particularly sensitive to tone; had a tendency to misread these things in card games, but any of the two were good enough in Karnan's eyes.

And, he supposed the last thing they needed was another last-minute flurry of cheating accusations. Didn't see why people couldn't have the decency to just have it out now instead of leaving all that discussion and screaming and finger-pointing to the last storming minute.

[OOC: From my aggressive allergy to low activity/inactivity perspective, TUO and Ash are both valid targets. I'd go for TUO over Ash at this juncture; I don't particularly feel the arguments for TUO but I'm weakly partial to TUO because current!Ash is an activity wildcard. I might as well flat-out say I intend to secure a single lynch train at the end, and having followed Steel's game with some interest, I don't think we want that sort of counterproductive chaos on - was it D4? D3? - where Lion, Dragonfly, Vulture, and Beagle decided to dance with the votes. Given this is D1, I don't think it's especially helpful to us to gun for multiple kills at once. Sorry, tie-lovers, I'm normally one of you but not in an eleven-player game with a chance for added kills and potential filter-deading  But I don't think this is an especially controversial position.]

[Mat he/him]

TUO Elandera

[Archer he/him]

24 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

where Lion, Dragonfly, Vulture, and Beagle decided to dance with the votes

[Wow, that game sounds crazy. Who would ever play like that?

I don't like the TUO exe. I thought it was pretty par for the course for TUO; they have a history of starting strong then pulling back from the crush. It seems more like an easy mix option. It doesn't help that two of my susses, Striker (doing it for the lolz) and Elandera (who I feel is playing differently this game than usual) are voting for them. It also doesn't help that I'd probably be okay with a Drake exe, but now that Striker mentioned it, it seems like a bad idea. 

Ashbringer never really responded to my vote, so I imagine he's a dead end. So I think I'm going to leave my vote where it is.]

Travis began to babble incoherently. "Lone star! Cactuses! Cactae? Giant belt buckles!!" 

[I see that vote switch, Mat >. >] 

[Mat he/him]

5 minutes ago, Archer said:

[I see that vote switch, Mat >. >]

And it sounds to me like you agree with it 

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

[Wow, that game sounds crazy. Who would ever play like that?

[OOC: Definitely the work of depraved minds, in my view  I pity all who are playing that game.

As Eiwlil is missing-in-action:

The Unknown Order (3): Elandera, Striker, Kasimir
Elandera (2): Archer, Matrim's Dice
Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (1): Araris Valerian

Considering I've had to nudge her into correcting her vote counts at least four times, I don't see this as a significant change  Tfw you have OT but also no motivation to stare again at AI/ML stuff and so are on-thread despite needing to be off and away.]

[+Lotus she/her]

55 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: What I'd specifically like to ask is if there will be inactivity filter kills, if the yardstick involves thread presence (i.e. can an Elim hang back and just submit kill orders/orders/talk in their doc), and also, if you can't find a pinch-hitter, will there be a filter kill? @Lotus

If they talk in their GM PM I'm gonna count that, doc no. And as far as filter kill... Imma gonna cross that bridge when I get to it.

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Lotus said:

If they talk in their GM PM I'm gonna count that, doc no. And as far as filter kill... Imma gonna cross that bridge when I get to it.

[OOC: Fair, thank you.

This cements my 'I absolutely want a single train today' position, if only because of the uncertainty inherent but also presents me with a dilemma. I'm still hella against low activity due to recent experiences. No certainty on filter kill or what inactives mean to the Village and the possibility of Elim lurking isn't exactly great for us either. This means that having no especial suspicions apart from bad gut on Striker (which is normal), and bad gut on Fabien (we blame LG5 for this), I'm forced to choose between TUO and Elan.

I don't really care for saving TUO, but I'm getting jitters about being on the same train as Striker, partly in light of what Archer said, and partly in light of the fact that my brain keeps coming back to Striker talking about me doing analysis in this game when, in my view, I don't tend to be especially analytical and I've already said I'm trying to chill and RP. I don't really know where his view on helpful!analytical!Kas is coming from because I've not seen him this game so far, and it feels like a bit of a reach/pocket attempt.

With that and a massive sense of irony:

TUO, you can consider yourself given a reprieve. Elan.]

Karnan played the cards he was dealt.

[+Lotus she/her]

And thats time! My vote counter robot appears to be asleep so-

[+Lotus she/her]

MR52 Cycle 2: The first to be kicked off the table.

They eyed each other, fingering their cards as they watched. And then, the cards we're played, and Elandera stood up in frustration upon seeing her hand. "Augh!" she cried, and stormed off to a  nearby table to watch the game unfold with her lost spheres.

Matrim's dice joined her after a horrible hand involving some fellow players secretly giving him the worst cards.

---

Elandera was voted off the table! She was a Lucky Knight Radiant!

Matrim's Dice is no longer at the table! He was a Clever Knight Radiant!

---

PMs will be sent out shortly. Please be patient.

VC:

 

Spoiler

 

Elandera (3): Archer, Matrim's Dice, Kasimir

The Unknown Order (2): Elandera Striker

Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall

Ashbringer (1): Araris Valerian

 

Player list: 

Spoiler

 

1. @Matrim's Dice,  Clever Knight radiant

2. @The Unknown Order

3. @Steeldancer

4. @Ashbringer Faleast
5. @StrikerEZ

6. @Elandera Lucky Knight radiant

7. @Araris Valerian

8. @Kasimir Karnan, lighteyed swordsman, formerly working for Brightlord Terneas

9. @Archer

10. @DrakeMarshallHonest Jake

11. @Fabien Jack Oliver Travis

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lotus

[StrikerEZ he/him]

@Lotus mind giving us the VC in the post as well? 

That's interesting. Mat was an interesting choice for a first kill.

[Steeldancer he/him]

The flavor for this game is hilarious. I'll run some voting analysis after I finish watching Picard. 

[Kasimir he/him]

[OOC: On the assumption that since only Elan died, no one played a card (could be wrong) :

Final version (pending Lotus)

Quote

Elandera (3): Archer, Matrim's Dice, Kasimir
The Unknown Order (2): Elandera, Striker
Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (1): Araris Valerian

Raw version

Quote

Elandera (3): Archer<2>, Mat<3>, Kas<5>
The Unknown Order (2): Mat<2>, Elan, Striker<3>, Kas<4>
Kasimir (2): Drake<1>, Fabien, Drake<3>
Ashbringer (1): Archer<1>, Araris<2>, Kas<3>
Araris (0): Kas<2>, Striker<2>
Archer (0): Mat<1>, Drake<2>
Steel (0): Striker<1>
Striker(0): Araris<1>
Drake (0): Kas<1>, TUO<1>

I'm just going to comment that once again Kas has never found a train he dislikes apparently. A decent number of votes show up, Steel never voted, I don't think, and on being challenged, TUO pulled off and didn't come back. Ash has also apparently a burning hatred of Not Voting.

Decent amount of movement from Archer, Mat, Striker. Araris wanted a tie at that point and was either content or simply found a convenient side-train. Given volatility, I think we need Elim risk appetite to get a decent sense of what was going on. I suppose the fact there were no terribly last minute (apart from my Elan shift) movements should be reassuring, but that being said, anyone who forced a last minute tie to get multiple players killed should be sus. This is something we likely need to watch out for in mid-to-late game, besides such things as double-voting cards.

I say risk appetite matters because a 3-2 gap has some volatility which could easily be closed by the use of playing cards but the Elims apparently weren't all that bothered. So very light Village read on TUO from me for the moment while I try to figure what to make out of this.]

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kasimir
oops

[+Lotus she/her]

46 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Lotus mind giving us the VC in the post as well? 

That's interesting. Mat was an interesting choice for a first kill.

Thanks for the reminder!

[Illwei]

Now that all the PMs have been all sent out, your tired resident Votecount Bot who slept through rollover is back up in working order. 

. . .

hopefully. 

---

Votecount 2.0

Not Voting (9): The Unknown Order, Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Araris Valerian,
Kasimir, Archer, DrakeMarshall, Fabien

Previous Vote Counts

Spoiler

Day 1 Ending: 

Elandera (3): Archer, Matrims Dice, Kasimir
The Unknown Order (2): Elandera, Striker
Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (1): Araris Valerian
Not Voting (3): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, The Unknown Order

Previous:

Spoiler

VC 1.0 (8/1, 10:50AM, PST)

Spoiler

Not Voting (11): Matrims Dice, The Unknown Order, Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Araris Valerian,
Kasimir, Archer, DrakeMarshall, Fabien

VC 1.1 (8/1, 2:50PM, PST)

Spoiler

Drake (2): Kasimir, The Unknown Order
Striker (1): Araris Valerian
Not Voting (8): Matrims Dice, Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Archer, DrakeMarshall, Fabien

VC 1.2 (8/1, 5:10PM, PST)

Spoiler

Drake (2): Kasimir, The Unknown Order
Archer (2): Matrims Dice, DrakeMarshall
Striker (1): Araris Valerian
Ashbringer (1): Archer
Not Voting (5): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Fabien

VC 1.3 (8/1, 11:50PM, PST)

Spoiler

Archer (2): Matrims Dice, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (2): Archer, Araris Valerian
Drake (1): The Unknown Order
Kasimir (1): Fabien
Araris Valerian (1): Kasimir
Steeldancer (1): StrikerEZ
Not Voting (3): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Elandera

VC 1.4 (8/2, 12:50PM, PST)

Spoiler

Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (2): Archer, Araris Valerian
Drake (1): The Unknown Order
Araris Valerian (1): Kasimir
Steeldancer (1): StrikerEZ
Not Voting (4): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Elandera, Matrim

VC 1.5 (8/3, 12:30 AM, PST)

Spoiler

Kasimir (2): Fabien, DrakeMarshall
Ashbringer (2): Archer, Araris Valerian
Araris Valerian (2): Kasimir, Striker
The Unknown Order (1): Matrims Dice
Not Voting (4): Steeldancer, Ashbringer, Elandera, Matrims Dice, The Unknown Order

Day 2:

-nothing-

Ping me for a votecount when you need, or wait til I feel like doing one.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

"Well now, what'd I do to you? I didn't do no murderin'. But you all wanted me out of here. I guess I'll have to thank my shining stars that the Capitan is a kind and fair fellow. I almost had to use a card I was planning on saving for later. Now, I don't like Striker much for that, in fact, I think they be a Voidbringer in disguise."

[+Lotus she/her]

(also give three cheers to the Illwei vote count for sending out all the PMs while I had some issues)

[Illwei]

6 minutes ago, Lotus said:

(also give three cheers to the Illwei vote count for sending out all the PMs while I had some issues)

time to make a nice toasty bagel now tbqh

EDIT Update: the bagels are moldy ;-;

Edited August 3, 2021 by Illwei

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I might have moved my vote at the end of things if I was arorund, but I just woke up. My summer class I taught just ended, so I took advantage of the opportunity to sleep in a bit .

@Illwei, you have Matrim's Dice in two places in VC 1.5. Is that your tell?

At first glance, it's interesting that votes dropped off of myself and Ash, but not Kas. Especially since I got the impression most people think elim!Kas would be a bit unbalanced, or at least volatile. The question is: would elims vote on Kas given that sentiment. And I guess that depends. I'd probably give Drake a bit of a pass here and have small suspicion on Fabien, based on my assumptions of how experienced/inexperienced players would differ. This is under the soft assumption that Kas is village. I don't think elims would bus elim!Kas, since the extra life would be pretty important to hold onto for later.

While giving Steel a pass last turn was fine, this game has the potential to be rather short, so I would be fine voting for him today.

I think there's some potential for Ash/Archer to be e/e. It's really only based on Archer withdrawing from Ash when he did (and also not going back when Kas voted there).

I think I sort of need to read TUO as village because of my soft-village on Kas. But if TUO did flip elim, I'd consider elim!Kas a strong possibility.

I'm still missing Striker in there. Which means I guess I'd be fine voting him as well.

So Fabien, Steel, Striker, Ash, and Archer are my elim candidates. Definitely a larger list than there are elims, but that's what I'm thinking now.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

5 hours ago, Archer said:

[I think Drake is lying? About everything? He's writing choppy, well curated sentences, so there's something he's doing unusual, I think just for kicks. But also, it could be a gambit to avoid scrutiny.]

No boo you are completly on the wrong track. Dummy.

My condolences.

If you need clarifications to anything I said then too bad I won't give them.

4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: Seems about right to me. If so, Drake's insistence on ensuring I'm in any tie is odd, but if he wants to be a mule about it, that's not my problem.]

So, I pretty much don't want you to be involved in a tie ever. I don't really have a good reason for this and if I did I wouldn't tell you.

Thing is, you are exactly like a thug. There are no differences. You can survive a night kill but you can't survive a vote. I am pleased to say that this means your ability has tons of real utility for the village. But very little for the elims.

I am absolutely saying that this means you are an elim, because that would be a pretty smart thing to say for me. However, even though I know for sure your alignment, what I don't know is whether your ability is more likely to be a liability than an asset for my team. I am definitely being very fair about this, and I'm not sorry if you don't like how I'm approaching this, but the loss of your ability would not be a huge loss on the side of the Voidbringers, whereas it might be pretty important for the Knights Radiant. If you seemed like a Knight Radiant somewhere down the road, in a game with so few people, an extra cycle wouldn't change anything. In most games it would be easy to remove your extra life but in this one ties only affect one person so it isn't as doable. I think it's way better to trust in who gets what special role than to trust in analysis done by villagers, I think your role is probably confirmed village and tbh I kinda like that you were the one to point that out, and it would really make my paranoia worse if your ability were taken off of the board. I've definitely got all the answers, but do you disagree with what I'm saying here? I genuinely think what I am doing is much more likely to harm the village.

Unlike with Archer, if you need clarifications to anything I said, then too bad I won't give them.

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: From my aggressive allergy to low activity/inactivity perspective, TUO and Ash are both valid targets. I'd go for TUO over Ash at this juncture; I don't particularly feel the arguments for TUO but I'm weakly partial to TUO because current!Ash is an activity wildcard. I might as well flat-out say I intend to secure a single lynch train at the end, and having followed Steel's game with some interest, I don't think we want that sort of counterproductive chaos on - was it D4? D3? - where Lion, Dragonfly, Vulture, and Beagle decided to dance with the votes. Given this is D1, I don't think it's especially helpful to us to gun for multiple kills at once. Sorry, tie-lovers, I'm normally one of you but not in an eleven-player game with a chance for added kills and potential filter-deading  But I don't think this is an especially controversial position.]

TUO has a track record of being active later on in the game but I think they were definitely the most inactive player during the first cycle. I am inclined to trust this vote a bit.

Also, ties pretty much exist to not be broken, no? The point is not that any of several people could die and need to do something about it, the goal of a tie is for everyone to die. I thought we were on very different pages about this.

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

TUO Elandera

Slight elim read for this, I think.

2 hours ago, Archer said:

It also doesn't help that I'd probably be okay with a Drake exe, but now that Striker mentioned it, it seems like a bad idea. 

I am not amused.

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

TUO, you can consider yourself given a reprieve. Elan.

This vote is boring.

45 minutes ago, Lotus said:

 

Elandera was voted off the table! She was a Lucky Knight Radiant!

Matrim's Dice is no longer at the table! He was a Clever Knight Radiant!

 

I kinda trusted Elandera tbh, so this result is unsurprising.

Matrim is a pretty boring choice for the kill.

10 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Lion

As in Opal Lion?

Quote

I say risk appetite matters because a 3-2 gap has some volatility which could easily be closed by the use of playing cards but the Elims apparently weren't all that bothered. So very light Village read on TUO from me for the moment while I try to figure what to make out of this.

I disagree. Also, it really looked a lot like third parties were stepping in and trying to save TUO, and not like people who voted for TUO changed their minds.

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I am absolutely saying that this means you are an elim, because that would be a pretty smart thing to say for me. However, even though I know for sure your alignment, what I don't know is whether your ability is more likely to be a liability than an asset for my team. I am definitely being very fair about this, and I'm not sorry if you don't like how I'm approaching this, but the loss of your ability would not be a huge loss on the side of the Voidbringers, whereas it might be pretty important for the Knights Radiant. If you seemed like a Knight Radiant somewhere down the road, in a game with so few people, an extra cycle wouldn't change anything. In most games it would be easy to remove your extra life but in this one ties only affect one person so it isn't as doable. I think it's way better to trust in who gets what special role than to trust in analysis done by villagers, I think your role is probably confirmed village and tbh I kinda like that you were the one to point that out, and it would really make my paranoia worse if your ability were taken off of the board. I've definitely got all the answers, but do you disagree with what I'm saying here? I genuinely think what I am doing is much more likely to harm the village.

[OOC: I actually prefer keeping my ability because if you are an Elim, then you can't continue to hide behind lazy and persistent votes for me that being obvious  So I'm content with the results of the cycle. I do think those would be lazy because it's a convenient train to stash on, claim this analysis, and then refuse to engage further, so forcing you to make a choice between engaging with the game and giving us more to read or deliberately voting for me again and again? Sure, I'll take it. I think what decision you make would be telling as a read on you, so I'm really personally glad it worked out this way.]

8 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

TUO has a track record of being active later on in the game but I think they were definitely the most inactive player during the first cycle. I am inclined to trust this vote a bit.

Also, ties pretty much exist to not be broken, no? The point is not that any of several people could die and need to do something about it, the goal of a tie is for everyone to die. I thought we were on very different pages about this.

[OOC: They've been low-activity in games I've run, Ash has not been all that active lately, while Steel has been active enough in the games I've run and LG78. 

I think a lot of players in this game prefer to create ties and watch rather than to attempt to break them or do something about them. People tend to either make the ties and observe, or to complain they don't like ties and break them, not do both. I've been guilty of that myself in a number of games, but I figured I'd just be upfront that I intend to be less passive in my attitude about ties this game due to the stakes.]

15 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Slight elim read for this, I think.

[OOC: ...He's dead, I think you can stop reading him right now  ]

15 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

As in Opal Lion?

[OOC: I have no idea what you're talking about please stop making me screw up more.

For the moment, I'm going to put a vote on Fabien. What's up?]

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: I actually prefer keeping my ability because if you are an Elim, then you can't continue to hide behind lazy and persistent votes for me that being obvious  So I'm content with the results of the cycle. I do think those would be lazy because it's a convenient train to stash on, claim this analysis, and then refuse to engage further, so forcing you to make a choice between engaging with the game and giving us more to read or deliberately voting for me again and again? Sure, I'll take it. I think what decision you make would be telling as a read on you, so I'm really personally glad it worked out this way.]

Voting on you constantly was very much what I had in mind and I hope that is what came across.

I was going to vote for you, but unrelated to what you are saying right here, I think I won't. You have no choice about how you can read that tbh.

Kasimir.

Cowardly of you to assume that my votes would never succeed tbh. Somebody have a card up their sleeve?

Considering that I have never ever before claimed to be an eliminator while actually being an eliminator, I am also not remotely curious to know why you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I was telling the truth about that.

15 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: They've been low-activity in games I've run, Ash has not been all that active lately, while Steel has been active enough in the games I've run and LG78. 

Yeah what I'm saying is that I feel like it's not shaky to vote somebody up based on their track record, even when they are not curently playing into that track record, but probably might later on. So I kinda agree that TUO was a good inactivity vote.

Quote

I think a lot of players in this game prefer to create ties and watch rather than to attempt to break them or do something about them. People tend to either make the ties and observe, or to complain they don't like ties and break them, not do both. I've been guilty of that myself in a number of games, but I figured I'd just be upfront that I intend to be less passive in my attitude about ties this game due to the stakes.]

I don't see. I am in principle opposed to this.

[Fabien]

Hi! I'm alive! Sorry for not being around for a bit yesterday, I was out with family and forgot about this a bit, sorry. I'm going to go read what I missed and come back with any thoughts! Be back soon!

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Cowardly of you to assume that my votes would never succeed tbh. Somebody have a card up their sleeve?

[OOC: They could succeed. If you are a Villager, you'd simply cost the Village more than my extra lynch life would by refusing to vote on or focus on anyone else. Voting shows the game where your priorities are, and suspicions unbacked by votes do not exert pressure. In this case, you would be showing that you prioritise removing an extra life from me - when Village or Elims could just as easily shardblade me or NK me - more than you value eliciting reactions from other players and actually pursuing your suspicions, or developing your suspicions. That's Elim behaviour to me. Villagers want to solve the game, as as you said - this is likely to be a short game one way or another.]

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Considering that I have never ever before claimed to be an eliminator while actually being an eliminator, I am also not remotely curious to know why you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I was telling the truth about that.

[OOC: If I truly believed you were an Elim, I'd vote for you flat out, and I might very well go so going forwards. I'm pointing out that one hallmark of Elim behaviour is the reluctance to solve the game, and taking refuge in easy trains. Telling the game you have strategic reasons for going after me allows you to conveniently avoid having to vote for anyone else or having to actually place lynch pressure on anyone else, side-stepping attention. That's a good place for an Elim to hide, and if you persistently do this, I'm afraid that's a red flag in my eyes.]

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Yeah what I'm saying is that I feel like it's not shaky to vote somebody up based on their track record, even when they are not curently playing into that track record, but probably might later on. So I kinda agree that TUO was a good inactivity vote.

[OOC: If you don't vote off a track record, what do you vote off? What's your basis for saying they're not currently playing into that track record? Track records are good: they give us ways of projecting from past data to the present. In fact, the claim they're not currently playing into it is dubious because one could say the same of Ash. If so, I'm interested to hear who you think has the worst inactivity track record.]

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: They could succeed. If you are a Villager, you'd simply cost the Village more than my extra lynch life would by refusing to vote on or focus on anyone else. Voting shows the game where your priorities are, and suspicions unbacked by votes do not exert pressure. In this case, you would be showing that you prioritise removing an extra life from me - when Village or Elims could just as easily shardblade me or NK me - more than you value eliciting reactions from other players and actually pursuing your suspicions, or developing your suspicions. That's Elim behaviour to me. Villagers want to solve the game, as as you said - this is likely to be a short game one way or another.]

When you say "voting for me again and again" this is basically evidence that you genuinely believe my vote could succeed.

Are your own reactions irrelevant?

I have a shardblade of my own, but I don't really feel like doing anything for myself, so I am going to leave everything up to any other people out there who might have shardblades, and throw away my vote.

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[OOC: If I truly believed you were an Elim, I'd vote for you flat out, and I might very well go so going forwards. I'm pointing out that one hallmark of Elim behaviour is the reluctance to solve the game, and taking refuge in easy trains. Telling the game you have strategic reasons for going after me allows you to conveniently avoid having to vote for anyone else or having to actually place lynch pressure on anyone else, side-stepping attention. That's a good place for an Elim to hide, and if you persistently do this, I'm afraid that's a red flag in my eyes.]

You are saying the train on you is a difficult train but also acting like it has every chance of succeeding in practice. I'm pleased to say that's a green flag in my eyes, and in any case you can have it both ways.

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[OOC: If you don't vote off a track record, what do you vote off? What's your basis for saying they're not currently playing into that track record? Track records are good: they give us ways of projecting from past data to the present. In fact, the claim they're not currently playing into it is dubious because one could say the same of Ash. If so, I'm interested to hear who you think has the worst inactivity track record.]

TUO was being basically inactive on C1 of this game.

To put it indirectly, I care a lot about what TUO has done in other games, they should be judged by that and not by what they are doing in this game. I think the train on TUO probably wasn't sort of shoddy.

This is also very much a different situation to when I was sussing Ashbringer that one time in LG77. The reasoning that was given to vote for TUO is reasoning that would not have worked for anyone else, and it was one of many reasons, which makes me confident that there isn't a pretense or any hidden reasons behind the votes.

Edited August 3, 2021 by DrakeMarshall