Long Game 78: The Legend of Zelda: The False Heroes

[|TJ| he/him]

Shakhtar was merrily hopping about. Of course he was freaking out on the inside, but he always believed to face adversity with a smile. If he was to solve the case of the hidden Yiga, he needed to talk to maaaany others. "Postmaaaan! Oh Postmaaaaan! Come out come out wherever you are! I need you to carry a message to my good old friend Kazs! Need his help if we're gonna do this, but first, off to find out if a Yiga was foolish enough to try and replace the old sod. Ya hear me Postman?"

[Yes, that's me asking the Postman a PM with Kas, don't listen to his disapprovals, I'll let him have a chill Kas game ]

---

Of everyone posted so far, feeling super good about Archer. After reading Mat's post, I was about to disagree with him that Beedle not be village, but Archer's point that it would make it easy for e!Beedle to supply the elims with whatever they need to too OP even for trolly!Striker to come up with. I don't see how to build an elim team around Beedle.

The overall though process of the post as well, seems very village-ish. Though there is a flaw with 'go for Frog' plan as I wouldn't advice making deductions based on item requests because here you're assuming all the villagers will not go for it, and also that Zelda/Link might go for the double life item.

Edit: Ninja'd by Archer's latest post. That is a much better plan, and yeah it only increased the village read of you. Still unsure if all the other villagers would follow through the plan, or if Zelda/Link are on board too. As I said, IKYK situations like Zelda not going for the Frog but an elim going for it might lead to Beedle hard clearing the elim.

Edited June 22, 2021 by |TJ|

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, |TJ| said:

Shakhtar was merrily hopping about. Of course he was freaking out on the inside, but he always believed to face adversity with a smile. If he was to solve the case of the hidden Yiga, he needed to talk to maaaany others. "Postmaaaan! Oh Postmaaaaan! Come out come out wherever you are! I need you to carry a message to my good old friend Kazs! Need his help if we're gonna do this, but first, off to find out if a Yiga was foolish enough to try and replace the old sod. Ya hear me Postman?"

Kazs scowled. That was quite enough. 

"You hear me, Postman?" he groused. "You hook me up with Shakhtar and I will find you and I will fill your ears with the worst rhymes to ever grace the King's court!"

[OOC: How about no >:( I want a chill game. A quiet game. A game full of RP. A happy game!]

[Mat he/him]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

So in a twenty-six-person game, we could be looking at: V!Zelda, Link, Beedle, Mipha, Urbosa, Revali, Postman, Postman, Knight, +11 vs E!Kohga, Sheikah, King, Daruk, Knight, +1. With a village alignment scanner, who can create a towncore between their scans and the confirmed good roles late in the game, this seems pretty balanced. Still not sure about the amount of vanilla though. Maybe there's some more postmen/knights thrown in there?

Mostly quoting this just to note that the differences between my and Archer's assessments, which I find somewhat interesting but also expected  Archer, does realizing that the Sheikah are in fact the and not a make your guess different?

42 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Zelda's worth more than an elim since she's one of two people who the elims need to kill compared to the 5-6 people the village needs to kill. Claiming is for if they're guaranteed to be exed otherwise in the hopes of at least using up Kohga's kill. The Knight redirect would not save them from that, and presumably the hearty durian doesn't either. One thing that could happen is a village postman opening a PM with Zelda, which would permit her to scan them and then have the opportunity to get PMs opened between Zelda and anyone else scanned as village. That should be helpful even though the likelihood of an elim postman means that a PM with someone claiming to be Zelda can't be automatically trusted.

Yeah, I agree that Zelda and probably Link should claim if up for the exe, but it still potentially could be nice if she scans an elim. Like I said, weigh the benefits if that happens. The Postman idea is a good point, seeing as an elim Postman who tries to do anything tricky would be immediately outed.

15 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I agree that Beedle is probably village, but I think you could also build an elim team specifically around him being evil as well. Striker doesn’t have a huge reputation for being a troll GM (yet), but I guess my stance would be more on the side of role safety than not. I’d rather not lose the game before it has really started.

It did occur to me that a smaller team with e!Beedle is a possibility, but I agree with you in that it probably isn't the case. I don't really love 'probably' though so I'll join the hordes in being cautious of this.

6 minutes ago, Archer said:

Updated plan: we hedge out bets. Only Zelda requests a Frog, while Link avoids signalling their identity. Either we get double scans throughout the game, or we lose a key player but at least the game isn't over. I'd rather tackle this head on than waffle and eventually decide to trust them anyway. Either it'll be a bad idea now and we'll know sooner rather than later that the item pipeline will be dry, or it'll be a bad idea later when Beedle claims and we all go yeah, they're probably fine. Probably. I suspect we'll all trust them at exlo if it comes to it and we have to play balance of probability, so why not trust them now and make the most of it? 

If this is the plan, why choose Zelda to signal instead of Link? I mean I get the double scans but a single scan is still better than a dead Zelda :P.

Mostly I'm curious just to see how many people will ignore this plan altogether. Like, there's no way for that curiosity to be fulfilled until the Aftermath and the GM spreadsheet, but I still wonder  

2 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Of everyone posted so far, feeling super good about Archer. After reading Mat's post, I was about to disagree with him that Beedle not be village, but Archer's point that it would make it easy for e!Beedle to supply the elims with whatever they need to too OP even for trolly!Striker to come up with. I don't see how to build an elim team around Beedle.

Yeah, that's why I said Beedle is very likely village, I just didn't mention exactly why I said that I guess. The way to balance it would be Beedle plus like one or two more, maybe both vanilla, so that their team is underpowered but gets free items. It's technically possible but unlikely.

[|TJ| he/him]

3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: How about no >:( I want a chill game. A quiet game. A game full of RP. A happy game!]

Heyyyyyyy when do I ever leave you unhappy hmm? You'll have a quiet game, I promise >:)

[Steeldancer he/him]

Oh, I'd like a PM with Alvron pretty please. 

[Archer he/him]

Reading Absolutely TJ as village because he's too suicidal to be an elim

By the way, if anyone has a good reason to pick the Frogs, you could probably advertise that now. Then whoever didn't advertise they would ask for one but did anyway is still signaled to be a conf good. If two such people emerge, the other is obviously evil and must be smote. The rest are saying they aren't a conf good, which blows their cover a bit, but it allows for the items to be claimed. 

I'd rather double scans over double kills. If we trust Beedle enough to consider this strat, that's the better play. If we don't, then neither should claim. Link not getting involved is just backup for what I see as an unlikely scenario 

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Heyyyyyyy when do I ever leave you unhappy hmm? You'll have a quiet game, I promise >:)

[OOC: NO.

I'm getting a bad feeling. The sort of bad feeling I get when Wyrm asks me to trust him. The answer is still no!]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

Reading Absolutely TJ as village because he's too suicidal to be an elim

[YeetAroundABush]

35 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

“Hey! Listen! I saw Faleast change shape! Maybe he’s a Yiga.”

"Oh?" These Yiga were certainly bold, if what is said about this Faleast character was true. "We should alert the others of this discovery at once! The sooner we rid this castle of those fiends the better!" Nott turned, gesturing for Navi to follow. "Mark my words, my fluttery friend, those scoundrels will be found within the week, or my name isn't Nott Yigah!"

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

I'd like any PM.

At all.

All the PM's please.

Except with an elim. That'd either be redundant, or unproductive, depending on my alignment.

A line to TJ would be especially nice. I'm interested in seeing how much he's improved.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

So, I'm going to be playing very differently than normal for a little fun. I'm going to be very freedom of information heavy (because why not) and am going to try to use any PMs the Postman sees fit to give me (pretty please?). I am pure vanilla, no role or items, so I'll be asking Mr. Beedle for some items. I might do some role analysis later, but for now I only have one tidbits that's been bouncing around in my head for a while @Beedle, when/if you use your two time use get an item yourself, get a more than single use item. Better to have security of mind than a one time thing.

[Stick. she/her]

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

And I'm glad I'm village this game

Oh how very subtle of you  

1 hour ago, Archer said:

They should both request a Tireless Frog today so Beedle knows who they are.

No but what if the Beedle is an elim  This would be handing them the game

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Being able to see who people target seems fairly weak for either team, so my gut says it’s village. 

I'd say the role is far from weak - elims could easily get lucky enough to find Link through this ability as the only other kill in the game apart from the elim kill is Link's. And as for the village, same thing applies. 

1 hour ago, Steeldancer said:

 I'll vote on Stick. 

Good to see you too, Steel.  

Lotsa people discussing possible distributions and stuff which is nice and all but lets not rely too much on assuming distributions yeah tis risky

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

No but what if the Beedle is an elim  This would be handing them the game

[OOC: House Urbain approves of this paranoia ]

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Beetle being an elim is veery unlikely, so I'm sligtly sus of those advocating for worry about that.

Still, I like the idea of only Zelda asking for one, to be safe.

26 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Beetle being an elim is veery unlikely, so I'm slightly sus of those advocating for worry about that.

Still, I like the idea of only Zelda asking for one, to be safe.

Also because that specifically confirms Zelda as exactly Zelda to beetle.

[YeetAroundABush]

Then couldn't anyone ask for one and claim themselves as Zelda?

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Just now, YeetAroundABush said:

Then couldn't anyone ask for one and claim themselves as Zelda?

Yes, but then beetle would know they were either an elim or zelda.

[Steeldancer he/him]

9 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Good to see you too, Steel.  

It's nice to see you too Stick. If it helps, I used the old "who hasn't posted yet, point and pick" method. Stick

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

B(o)TW who else is spamming the host with rules questions rn?

I'm up to 6 at the moment.

[Archer he/him]

11 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

A line to TJ would be especially nice. I'm interested in seeing how much he's improved.

*concern*

10 minutes ago, The Unknown Order said:

So, I'm going to be playing very differently than normal for a little fun. I'm going to be very freedom of information heavy (because why not) and am going to try to use any PMs the Postman sees fit to give me (pretty please?). I am pure vanilla, no role or items, so I'll be asking Mr. Beedle for some items. I might do some role analysis later, but for now I only have one tidbits that's been bouncing around in my head for a while @Beedle, when/if you use your two time use get an item yourself, get a more than single use item. Better to have security of mind than a one time thing.

Interesting. What do you mean by freedom of information heavy? Like, should be widely roleclaim? 

Good Beedle idea. 

8 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I'd say the role is far from weak - elims could easily get lucky enough to find Link through this ability as the only other kill in the game apart from the elim kill is Link's. And as for the village, same thing applies. 

The key word there being lucky. Your odds get better as the player count reduces, especially if you're an elim who knows who not to scan, but it's still unlikely that you'll catch a kill. And if a village scanner sees a kill, do they call it out and risk outing Link? 

I'd still like a plan for that scenario, and if someone about to be exed claims conf good. Because it'll probably happen with little time to react

1 minute ago, YeetAroundABush said:

Then couldn't anyone ask for one and claim themselves as Zelda?

You could, but it'd mess up the village's plan, so only an elim would do it. In which case, ka-ching, free elim. 

The ninjas are out in force today, ack

***

"Oh friendly forest sprite," the townsfolk asked, "however shall we entertain our children?" 

"I AM LINKOV!" 

"That's so clever! They'll love playing with Lincoln Logs. Thanks, hero!" 

 

[Stick. she/her]

8 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Beetle being an elim is veery unlikely, so I'm sligtly sus of those advocating for worry about that.

Still, I like the idea of only Zelda asking for one, to be safe.

I still think it’s too risky - suppose this plan does go ahead and Zelda gets that frog thing. Whenever Zelda does decide to use this item and an elim scanner happens to be scanning Zelda during this time and sees that two people have been targeted by this player theyd know it’s Zelda straight away (or of Zelda decides to hold onto the frog for a while and use it later in the game, the elims would still obtain a very small pool of suspects of potential Zeldas). I realise this is kinda far fetched but hey you can never be too careful can you  

Response to @Archer’s question (for some reason it won’t quote the actual post):

Quote

And if a village scanner sees a kill, do they call it out and risk outing Link? 

Publicly calling it out would probably be the last thing I’d do, unless I have other reasons to suspect the player in question. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

2 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

I still think it’s too risky - suppose this plan does go ahead and Zelda gets that frog thing. Whenever Zelda does decide to use this item and an elim scanner happens to be scanning Zelda during this time and sees that two people have been targeted by this player theyd know it’s Zelda straight away (or of Zelda decides to hold onto the frog for a while and use it later in the game, the elims would still obtain a very small pool of suspects of potential Zeldas). I realise this is kinda far fetched but hey you can never be too careful can you  

...they'd obtain ONE of a pool of suspects of an unknown size.

2 hours ago, Archer said:

*concern*

Oh, yeah, I guess that does sound really sinister if you know my history.

Um... it's more that we've just interacted a lot in the past then specifically me fooling him in pms? Like, restricted PMs in this game means that I can't attempt the same kind of stuff I've pulled on TJ when I used to do SE anyways.

[Illwei]

Just quickly, for my reference

Haven't read up btw lmao

Village -

   Kill all Elims
Elims -
   Win At Parity (Zelda and Link can't both be alive)
   Alt Wincon: Kill both Zelda and Link.

Zelda - Alignment Scanner / Cop
Link - Vigilante (can't kill a cycle after killing a villager)

Kohga - 1-shot Strongman

Mipha - Doctor
Daruk - 1/S DP Vest
Revali - Tracker
Urbosa - Roleblocker
King Rhoam - Soother/Vote Cancel
Beedle - Approves item requests/Sees all item requests

*Shiekah - Role Cop
*Knight - Redirect/Bus Driver
*Postman - Open 1-1 PMs

There can be more than one rolecop? but not doctor. if there is an Elim rolecop, then the doctor is confirmed good.
Beedle is confirmed good imo.
if the Elims have a Role Cop, they won't have a tracker. would make more sense for them to have a tracker.
Kohga is basically confirmed an Elim role.

I'm hippity hyped for this game, and will probably be around as much as the last few games I played.

[Azmine_king]

Hiya, read over the rules again since yall like to do a lot of setup speculation during RVS. Theres not much to say that already hasn't been said or addressed. This is a lot less complicated than other games on here and seems pretty straightforward.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

1 minute ago, Azmine_king said:

Hiya, read over the rules again since yall like to do a lot of setup speculation during RVS. Theres not much to say that already hasn't been said or addressed. This is a lot less complicated than other games on here and seems pretty straightforward.

Purchasable items make everything way way more complicated than you'd think, even if there aren't prices.

 

@Illwei Kohga is literally confirmed elim. It's red, which is the elim color.

[Steeldancer he/him]

For role distribution, I'm just not gonna worry about it too much. I get balance and what not... but I've been stabbed in the back one too many times by trusting anything at all. Including what I thought was "balanced"
So I just trust no one. 
What I am worried about is winning. The best way to win, honestly, is to keep Zelda and Link completely hidden, yet protected. I have no idea how to accomplish that. So, let's do that! 
Also, how many elims would there be, if we're trying to calculate roles and whatnot?

[Mat he/him]

58 minutes ago, Archer said:

By the way, if anyone has a good reason to pick the Frogs, you could probably advertise that now.

I'd rather double scans over double kills. If we trust Beedle enough to consider this strat, that's the better play. If we don't, then neither should claim. Link not getting involved is just backup for what I see as an unlikely scenario 

Define advertise. Because in thread sounds like a bad plan  On a similar vein, replying to TUO’s ‘information free heavy because why not’, I can think of many reasons why not :P. But I’m not reading that elim atm because TUO

Fair enough. I’d rather have double scans over double kills too :P.

37 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Oh how very subtle of you  

Hey when you roll elim 4 outta the last 5 games you’re glad when you roll village

10 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Also, how many elims would there be, if we're trying to calculate roles and whatnot?

I’m assuming 5 cause of the player count but it could vary based on roles.

Leaving my vote on Yeet cause while they posted a few times, they haven’t acknowledged it. Though I guess there’s not much to acknowledge.