A Joe in the Bush Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 9 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said: Right, I had a bunch of justification for this, but no. Ash put it really well, and I have a village read on them, but basically, a piece of me suspects a Joe/TJ/Striker team. Not enough to follow through with it, but a bit. TJ, He's on to us! =P 7 hours ago, Elbereth said: That's all from me for a while. Happy Independence Day, and all that! Gross. 4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Joe: A deciding vote on Striker, but I’m still a little scared of a bus. Has mostly been quiet and has been poked by Ventyl prior. Doesn’t suspect Gears. Wanted Gears/the Village to give Ventyl a bit of a break. Analysis: Strong Village, but beware bussing. (I’m paranoid, what do you expect) especially if Gears/Ventyl flip Elim. Hmm, that's going to make this look bad. [ Gears ]. I'd rather lynch gears than Ventyl or TJ. Both are almost certainly village Radiants. I wouldn't say I'm fully suspicious of Gears, but they are going after people I trust. This game is too active for me. I'll be more useful with my actions once more people die off. Also, I no longer trust Elbereth nearly as much, and i I have time later tonight, I'll do a full analysis on them. (Don't expect too much. Likely I'll just skim their posts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 It’s less that I think Elim!Gears leads to Elim!Joe, but that Elim!Gears means your vote on Striker is less of a clear. Although if your vote lands us an Elim!Gears lynch then that speaks for itself on your alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 9 hours ago, Araris Valerian said: I'm not sure that this is a helpful attitude to have. We could act on different suspicions now, and avoid what I consider to be a double mislynch. I think people often have the mindset that lynching X will give us lots of information, but really, it's generally more accurate to say that X flipping elim will give us said information. You're right of course. What I proposed earlier only creates a chain of mislynches and would be disastrous for the village. The only reason I told so is because I hoped that would unite the villagers to vote for Ventyl, and now I realize why that hasn't happened. It isn't right for me to force people onto my suspicion, and I would go towards other players if I wasn't suspicious of Ventyl. As such, I'd invite you all to allay my suspicion on him. If that doesn't happen, my vote is staying on him for the duration of the day. The main reason for my suspicion (which I've already stated multiple times, invited people to discuss, and which has been conveniently ignored) is not his actions, but the actions of Striker, specifically saving Ventyl above him. 23 hours ago, TJ Shade said: *IMPORTANT* This is the prime reason I suspect Ventyl. At the time of this post, I was on 3 votes, Ventyl was on 3 votes, and Striker was on 4 votes. My vote was on Ventyl. He voted on me, specifically preferring a lynch on me over Ventyl. He obviously knew that if he voted on me, I would also shift my vote to him as self-preservation, which would end up with him on 5 votes and lynched. He had a vested interest in saving Ventyl above me, and above himself. That too with the knowledge of Ventyl being a KR. It doesn't make any sense at all for him to prefer a lynch on me if there was a village KR as one of the prime lynch candidates. Is it only because they're siblings, or do I make sense? Can people please discuss this? Everyone seems to be ignoring this. @Araris Valerian, @Orlok Tsubodai, @Devotary of Spontaneity, @Elbereth, @Matrim's Dice, what are you opinions on this? And please try to view this from my point of view, because for me, I can't come to any conclusion other than elim!Ventyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, TJ Shade said: Quote *IMPORTANT* This is the prime reason I suspect Ventyl. At the time of this post, I was on 3 votes, Ventyl was on 3 votes, and Striker was on 4 votes. My vote was on Ventyl. He voted on me, specifically preferring a lynch on me over Ventyl. He obviously knew that if he voted on me, I would also shift my vote to him as self-preservation, which would end up with him on 5 votes and lynched. He had a vested interest in saving Ventyl above me, and above himself. That too with the knowledge of Ventyl being a KR. It doesn't make any sense at all for him to prefer a lynch on me if there was a village KR as one of the prime lynch candidates. Is it only because they're siblings, or do I make sense? Can people please discuss this? Everyone seems to be ignoring this. @Araris Valerian, @Orlok Tsubodai, @Devotary of Spontaneity, @Elbereth, @Matrim's Dice, what are you opinions on this? And please try to view this from my point of view, because for me, I can't come to any conclusion other than elim!Ventyl. It's taken me like three reads to parse this. Are the bolded and underlined people all Striker? There are too many pronouns for me to follow. If it is striker, I think it's just a sibling thing rather than a teammate thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Yes, every one of them refers to Striker, though I'm not convinced of the sibling part, because he's missing a great chance to lynch village KR (at the time I hadn't revealed that I was one as well). So Striker is basically preferring to lynch normal villager over a village KR, and over Striker himself, which doesn't sit right with me. Hence my suspicion on Ventyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeecat she/her Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 wow, i totally missed this, sorry. not much i can say, way too late for me to read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Lord_Silberfarben said: wow, i totally missed this, sorry. not much i can say, way too late for me to read this. Try to follow from now on if you can, Silber. And ask if you have some doubts, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 I would like to here something from Silber. All he’s done is check in’s few times and say ‘wow that’s a lot of posts’. I’d like reads, or really anything. @Lord_Silberfarben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookla-son-son-Ventyl Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Wow, I’m not dying? Is this an elim trick and I’m actually going to be vote manipulated into the lynched? I don’t know. @Straw can we get another vote count? Here, I’ll post my reads as of right now. If anyone wants an explanation, I’m going to be doing stuff for a game I’m thinking about running, so I probably won’t be able to respond until next turn. I’ll give my explanation on Gears though, considering they are my main suspect right now. Gears: Elim. They’ve seemingly tunneled on me this entire game. Normally, I’d say that’s pretty NAI or even Village, but they’ve done some questionable things along with it. Namely, last turn they acknowledged that they were tunneling and that they’d look for another lynch target. This turn though, after a few people had basically said that they would want to lynch me, they suddenly change their mind. This seems like an elim seeing the village still pushing for a lynch, and realizing that they could seem a lot like a villager if they went along with the majority of people and go back to trying to kill me. TJ Shade: Slight Elim. Elbererth: Very Slight Elim. Lahilt: Neutral Leaning Elim Ashbringer: Neutral Leaning Slight Elim Xinoehp512: Null Zillah: Null Silberfaben: Null Kynedath: Null Illwei: Null Frozen Mint: Null Fifth: Neutral Leaning Slight Village Devotary: Neutral Leaning Slight Village Joe: Neutral Leaning Slight Village Araris: Neutral Leaning Slight Village Pyro: Neutral Leaning Slight Village Truthwatcher: Neutral Leaning Slight Village Orlok: Neutral Leaning Village Eternum: Neutral Leaning Village Magestar: Very Slight Village Matrim: Slight Village Edited July 5, 2020 by Ventyl Formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Ventyl said: Fifth: Neutral Leaning Slight Village ???? Edit: Y'all I'm telling you he's an elim giving some of his teammates slight village reads. It cannot be anything different xD Edited July 5, 2020 by TJ Shade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straw he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ventyl said: @Straw can we get another vote count? Let me know if there are any errors. Gears (4): A Joe in the Bush, Araris Valerian, Matrim's Dice, Ventyl Ventyl (4): Ashbringer, Gears, The_Truthwatcher, TJ Shade Elbereth (1): The Young Pyromancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Ventyl said: Gears: Elim. They’ve seemingly tunneled on me this entire game. Normally, I’d say that’s pretty NAI or even Village, but they’ve done some questionable things along with it. Namely, last turn they acknowledged that they were tunneling and that they’d look for another lynch target. This turn though, after a few people had basically said that they would want to lynch me, they suddenly change their mind. This seems like an elim seeing the village still pushing for a lynch, and realizing that they could seem a lot like a villager if they went along with the majority of people and go back to trying to kill me. I said I would be open to another lynch target. The only other one thus far is me. As such, I must lynch you, since I am not suspicious of myself. EDIT: Sidenote, if I flip village, please lynch Ventyl. If Ventyl flips village, please lynch TJ. If all of us flip village, then everything I know is wrong, up is down, left is right, and everything is awful. Edited July 5, 2020 by Gears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthshaper Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 I don't understand why more people are not suspicious of Ventyl? Can somebody explain why so many are reading Ventyl as village? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said: I don't understand why more people are not suspicious of Ventyl? Can somebody explain why so many are reading Ventyl as village? I have no venusian idea. I think Ventyl is an elim because of TJ's excellent reasoning that everyone seems to be ignoring. I've taken some suspicion for reasons unknown. If Ventyl flips village, lynch me. If I flip village, lynch Ventyl. EDIT: A summary of the charges brought against Ventyl: Claiming when the general consensus was against it, lying about squiring [said it took Stormlight], not getting voted on by Striker [which would have ensured Striker's survival as TJ had a vote on Ventyl]. Charges against me: Attacking Ventyl. Edited July 5, 2020 by Gears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookla-son-son-Ventyl Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Gears said: I have no venusian idea. I think Ventyl is an elim because of TJ's excellent reasoning that everyone seems to be ignoring. I've taken some suspicion for reasons unknown. If Ventyl flips village, lynch me. If I flip village, lynch Ventyl. EDIT: A summary of the charges brought against Ventyl: Claiming when the general consensus was against it, lying about squiring [said it took Stormlight], not getting voted on by Striker [which would have ensured Striker's survival as TJ had a vote on Ventyl]. Charges against me: Attacking Ventyl. Hey, I wasn’t lying, I misunderstood the rules... what does no one understand about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Just now, Ventyl said: Hey, I wasn’t lying, I misunderstood the rules... what does no one understand about that! We cannot know if you are telling the truth. As such, we must assume the worst. If this assumption leads us to a contradiction, we will lynch the one who caused it [in this case, me] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthshaper Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 About squiring, I think that Ventyl was simply confused between actions and stormlight charges. This is probably NAI. However, there is plenty of other evidence against Ventyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 I’m suspicious of Ventyl, but I’m having trouble seeing how the Elims could let him be that suspicious. There’s no real way to prove or disprove what he’s been saying. But reading an inactive as slight Village just adds more to the pot... @Fifth Scholar Gears, making lynch chains isn’t generally a good idea. TJ and Ventyl are mutually very suspicious of each other: that doesn’t mean they have opposing alignments. Just because a Ventyl lynch flips Village doesn’t mean TJ is Elim, it just means we have to look more carefully at who voted where and make a decision from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookla-son-son-Ventyl Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 Wait, Fifth hasn’t posted? That was a mistake! I knew someone had only made like one to two post, and I thought it was Fifth. But after looking back I realize that it was Kynedath who I meant to give that read too! Welp, if I wasn’t dying before, I’m dying now after I made this mess up. And just like how I misunderstood the rules, no one will believe me about this either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, Gears said: I have no venusian idea. I think Ventyl is an elim because of TJ's excellent reasoning that everyone seems to be ignoring. I've taken some suspicion for reasons unknown. If Ventyl flips village, lynch me. If I flip village, lynch Ventyl. If TJ has 'excellent reasoning', why is he your next lynch target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Straw said: Let me know if there are any errors. Gears (4): A Joe in the Bush, Araris Valerian, Matrim's Dice, Ventyl Ventyl (4): Ashbringer, Gears, The_Truthwatcher, TJ Shade Elbereth (1): The Young Pyromancer Ash retracted his vote off Ventyl. My main argument against Gears lynch: On 7/2/2020 at 1:53 AM, StrikerEZ said: Anyway, I'm interested to see why Gears really thinks that people can't be so certain that when the roleblock/redirect someone and results in something that seems like they hit an elim, they should be cautious. Like, yes, you should always be cautious when dealing with that kind of thing. But the odds of the effects not being caused by your actions are really really slim. Seems like it could be a way to cover the elims in case that happens to them, like he's trying to sow paranoia in our minds and stuff. I really like all the role analysis he's been doing so far, but all of that is basically completely NAI as far as I can tell. I'm gonna go ahead and put a vote on Gears because I want to see what he has to say about this. I feel this too strong to be a poke vote. I replied with me finding this post odd: On 7/2/2020 at 4:48 PM, TJ Shade said: This seems to be a weird one. Are you voting for someone just because of a difference of opinion on the mechanics of the game? From my point of view, Gears is absolutely right is wanting to be cautious of suspecting your targets if you're a role-blocker/redirecter. Usually, yes, your point would be a rather reasonable assumption to make, but this game would have like a plethora of roleblock/redirects, and hence I feel Gear's apprehension is a reasonable one. To jump on him and telling he intends to spread paranoia seems a little excessive. He admitted he was in the wrong, yet did not feel compelled to remove his vote: On 7/2/2020 at 11:04 PM, StrikerEZ said: Is it a little excessive? Maybe. But did it spark some discussion and get people talking about me and Gears? Absolutely. And I think it was worth it. I do still think that Gears was being a bit too paranoid, though I’ll admit I was underestimating just how many redirects and roleblocks are probably in the game. I could see Gears being a villager, but I don’t know. Just something about how much he was pushing for us to be paranoid about the results of people’s actions just doesn’t sit right with me. I’ll be leaving my vote where it is for now, partially because of that and partially because I would rather not get lynched C1 again. As such, I find Striker's push on Gears too strong for it to be E/E. I'd also imagine if Gears wanted to save Striker, he could have done it at any possible time in the cycle, There was no need for hm to draw suspicion by retracting his vote at the last moment. I feel it was a genuine attempt to tie and check for elim vote manip. @Matrim's Dice, I tagged you in the post above. No comment? (Adds +5 Suspicion Points to Matrim) Ashbringer would be my suspect no.2. He voted for Ventyl this cycle telling it'll stay until he answers his questions.What is this, C1, to vote for prompting others to answer? It seems like a very easy way of back off a lynch. Possibly, he saw a few people voting for Ventyl and appeared to consider a bus, and then he saw a larger no. of people against a Ventyl lynch and backed off from it. 22 hours ago, Ashbringer said: @Ventyl has essentially claimed Edgedancer, so he may have used Abrasion to protect himself and Progression to protect... TJ? But he can’t do that and Squire. Ventyl, at this point I want an explanation. 12 hours ago, Ashbringer said: Also, Ventyl, for now. I’m going to step out of this debate until things clear up. . 21 minutes ago, Gears said: I have no venusian idea. I think Ventyl is an elim because of TJ's excellent reasoning that everyone seems to be ignoring. I've taken some suspicion for reasons unknown. If Ventyl flips village, lynch me. If I flip village, lynch Ventyl. EDIT: A summary of the charges brought against Ventyl: Claiming when the general consensus was against it, lying about squiring [said it took Stormlight], not getting voted on by Striker [which would have ensured Striker's survival as TJ had a vote on Ventyl]. Charges against me: Attacking Ventyl. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Safe to say I'll be looking very closely at people who voted for you, if you flip village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ashbringer said: Gears, making lynch chains isn’t generally a good idea. TJ and Ventyl are mutually very suspicious of each other: that doesn’t mean they have opposing alignments. Just because a Ventyl lynch flips Village doesn’t mean TJ is Elim, it just means we have to look more carefully at who voted where and make a decision from there. All of my statements are as a last resort. Do not enact these schemes unless no lynch targets avail themselves. 1 minute ago, TJ Shade said: Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Safe to say I'll be looking very closely at people who voted for you, if you flip village. I thank you for your valiant efforts, and hope you will not succumb to death before your attempt can be realized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthshaper Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ventyl said: Wait, Fifth hasn’t posted? That was a mistake! I knew someone had only made like one to two post, and I thought it was Fifth. But after looking back I realize that it was Kynedath who I meant to give that read too! Welp, if I wasn’t dying before, I’m dying now after I made this mess up. And just like how I misunderstood the rules, no one will believe me about this either. This doesn't really matter. If you can adequately answer these questions, many people(me included) would reconsider: Why did you roleclaim as a KR? Why, after us telling you not to give information about yourself in the thread, you continued to do so? If you are village why would these statements be helpful to the village? Did you actually think that they would be helpful? StrikerEZ continuously defended you after knowing that you are a KR, they have now been revealed as an elim. Why would an elim defend a village KR? I will admit that Gears advoacting for TJs lynch rubbed me the wrong way, especially since TJ is a pretty strong village read. However, that is all speculation and right now Ventyl is much more likely to be elim. Edited July 5, 2020 by The_Truthwatcher Grammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, The_Truthwatcher said: I will admit that Gears advoacting for TJs lynch rubbed me the wrong way, especially since TJ is a pretty strong village read. However, that is all speculation and right now Ventyl is much more likely to be elim. I too think TJ is a villager, and I shall revise my lynch train from Ventyl-TJ to Ventyl-Gears instead. The general populace may lynch TJ in their own time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat he/him Posted July 5, 2020 Report Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, TJ Shade said: @Matrim's Dice, I tagged you in the post above. No comment? (Adds +5 Suspicion Points to Matrim) Didn't see my name among the tagged, I assumed it was directed to the inactives. I will now give my thoughts on the matter. Quote *IMPORTANT* This is the prime reason I suspect Ventyl. At the time of this post, I was on 3 votes, Ventyl was on 3 votes, and Striker was on 4 votes. My vote was on Ventyl. He voted on me, specifically preferring a lynch on me over Ventyl. He obviously knew that if he voted on me, I would also shift my vote to him as self-preservation, which would end up with him on 5 votes and lynched. He had a vested interest in saving Ventyl above me, and above himself. That too with the knowledge of Ventyl being a KR. It doesn't make any sense at all for him to prefer a lynch on me if there was a village KR as one of the prime lynch candidates. Is it only because they're siblings, or do I make sense? This would makes sense, if you were village. But here is Striker's 'reasoning' for switching to you: Quote I think I’ll be voting for TJ Shade. Partially in self preservation, and partially because I don’t like how much their vote has been flying around. I understand wanting to lynch someone (it is a point of the game ), but they seem almost...too eager to join on any new lynch train that’s forming, and tend to back off as soon as momentum dies down a little bit. Perhaps he thought that because of Ventyl's chaos he would have less to make a vote off of than you. He said the above reasons because they were what came to mind when preserving himself, and maybe Ventyl didn't have that much unique evidence against him. I'm less inclined to think of it as a preference, and more inclined to think it's just an elim voting for the easiest villager to vote on. That being said, if Gears flips village this cycle, I would Be VERY surprised Be perfectly fine with a Ventyl lynch D3 Edit: Anyone else find it odd that Gears put himself in his own lynch train plans? Edited July 5, 2020 by Matrim's Dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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