Shallan's Relationship

[kaellok]

 I honestly thing WoR is my favorite fantasy novel up to date- that or a close tie with the Memory of Light.

 

But--but--WoR is good!  Like, really really good.  MoL certainly isn't bad, but the two are definitely not in the same league imo. 

 

And I currently hope that Shallan doesn't end up with Kaladin because he's been annoying me of late, and I'm liking Adolin a lot more.  Pre-WoR, though, I was 100% sure that it'd be Shallan and Kaladin for sure (I mean, there was specific mention of her while he was riding the storm in WoK!)  And then all the other fore-shadowing going on, too.

[Locke Lamora]

But--but--WoR is good!  Like, really really good.  MoL certainly isn't bad, but the two are definitely not in the same league imo. 

 

And I currently hope that Shallan doesn't end up with Kaladin because he's been annoying me of late, and I'm liking Adolin a lot more.  Pre-WoR, though, I was 100% sure that it'd be Shallan and Kaladin for sure (I mean, there was specific mention of her while he was riding the storm in WoK!)  And then all the other fore-shadowing going on, too.

 

The reason I mentioned MoL was because I was so invested in the entire WoT for soooo many years that I had to mention at least one of its books I did forget one other book that truly rivals WoR in all out awesomeness in my opinion- Lies of Locke Lamora by Lynch!

 

Regarding Kaladin, after going through WoK, even if he became the most annoying and stubborn/childish, all lighteyes-hating character, I would still be unable to dislike him. I mean, all main characters of epics this size have a book that they have to go through this annoying step in their development- think about the Dragon Reborn and Rand. I think the next tome is going to treat him a bit better.

[shinintendo]

From WoB:

Q:  What Jasnah did, in the first book, with Shallan in the alleyway. And what happened at the end of this book, between Adolin and the other character. Would you put them on the same level? Or would you say that what Adolin did was maybe a little bit darker?
A:  I would say that what Adolin did was less dark, personally. I would say that what Adolin did was something that needed to be done, that no one else was capable of doing.
Q:  Will it have any ramifications for him down the line? With how it was handled?
A:  Oh, there are definitely ramifications. How it's handled, there's lots of ramifications. And there are certain characters who would think that what he did is totally, totally, totally wrong.

 

Do you think Shallan will think what he did was wrong? or think along the lines of BS (we all know Dalinar will be greatly bother by it )

Edited March 29, 2014 by shinintendo

[Ardar]

Just to go back to the earlier point about Kaladin's intelligence vs Adolin's: Shallan said in tWoK that she prefers more scholarly men (mind you, that may have been before she broke up with Kabsal, I forget) and while Adolin may be many things, he is certainly not a scholar; Kaladin, on the other hand, even if he is quite a capable fighter, was educated as a surgeon and Shallan even commented that he was educated as a lighteyes in WoR (Adolin was too but I do not think that was the focus of his childhood).

[Alina Two]

Okay, this is the longest thread ever, so pardon if I rehash something that's been said.

 

Let me preface by saying that I'm not much of a shipper in general. I don't feel like I'm personally backing a certain team in this race. It's a little disheartening to see triangulation happen between Shallan, Adolin, and Kaladin mostly because I like all of these characters so much, and I'm fond of all of the relationships that are developing betwixt and between them. The Adolin-Kaladin antagonist/bromance thing that's happening is just super. Also, I adore the way Kaladin and Shallan verbally spar and then connect in the chasms. Third, I love Adolin and Shallan because REALLY - any relationship that begins with a conversation about how to crap while wearing armor is hilarious and unexpected and great.

 

That said, I feel like I can't deny that there is a triangle on the horizon. The clues are all there - at this point, if nothing comes of it, I'll almost feel disappointed. Like we're all being jerked around a bit. Now I'm really more interested in how this whole triangle thing is going to shake out. As I see it, there are only a few possible conclusions to this particular romantic snarl.

 

A) Shadolin is somehow dissolved before anything can come of the Kaladin-Shallan connection: This could happen a number of ways. Things just fizzle out, or Adolin gets in major Trouble with the whole Sadeas thing. Like relationship threatening, life imperiling Trouble. I'm scared as all getout he's just going to die. This would be one of the ways Brandon could avoid the "dreaded love triangle" that many readers despise to such a degree. I don't like a triangle much myself, but if its drama or death - well, I'll take the drama.

 

B ) Classic triangle angst: Folks, I fear a full-on Lancelot and Guinevere fallout for our heroes. This could be the kind of interpersonal tangle that would seriously poison the fledgling Knights Radiant as a group. Even if things don't progress to that extreme, the bromance is doomed, and that's just not a happy thought.

 

C) Brandon figures out a third option: This could be where fans of Renarin or Jasnah place their hope. Or maybe Shallan just realizes she doesn't need a romantic entanglement to be a compelling character. Or maybe everyone is just too busy saving the world to get bent-out-of-shape about their relationship drama.

 

On the whole, I know Brandon is good at subverting expectations, so I'm probably way off. Either way I am quite excited to see how things develop in future books. So far the character and relationship arcs have been satisfying in the extreme so I guess I'll trust that the end result will be so as well. Or if not satisfying, at least cathartic?

Edited March 30, 2014 by Alina Two

[Seloun]

A) Shadolin is somehow dissolved before anything can come of the Kaladin-Shallan connection: This could happen a number of ways. Things just fizzle out, or Adolin gets in major Trouble with the whole Sadeas thing. Like relationship threatening, life imperiling Trouble. I'm scared as all getout he's just going to die. This would be one of the ways Brandon could avoid the "dreaded love triangle" that many readers despise to such a degree. I don't like a triangle much myself, but if its drama or death - well, I'll take the drama.

 

B ) Classic triangle angst: Folks, I fear a full-on Lancelot and Guinevere fallout for our heroes. This could be the kind of interpersonal tangle that would seriously poison the fledgling Knights Radiant as a group. Even if things don't progress to that extreme, the bromance is doomed, and that's just not a happy thought.

 

C) Brandon figures out a third option: This could be where fans of Renarin or Jasnah place their hope. Or maybe Shallan just realizes she doesn't need a romantic entanglement to be a compelling character. Or maybe everyone is just too busy saving the world to get bent-out-of-shape about their relationship drama.

 

Given that Kaladin is likely to spend most or all of Book 3 incommunicado with Shallan, I'd imagine that A is the most likely option, though depending on how you define it, C might apply. It's likely that many of the foreshadowed roadblocks between Kaladin and Shallan will hit while they're separated - mainly because if they're able to readily communicate with each other, most of the roadblocks aren't really roadblocks. Helaran is probably the best example, but we have e.g. Gaz and Honorspren-Cryptic conflict hanging about as well. All of those are pretty easy imagine a solution to as long as Kaladin and Shallan have an opportunity to interact, so they'll all probably hit early in Book 3 to temporarily derail (and generate Drama) Kaladin and Shallan's relationship. This gives plenty of time for Adolin and Shallan's relationship to cooldown or otherwise become OBE (due to e.g. Adolin's murder of Sadeas, or insecurities about being the only non-Surgebinding Kholin).

 

B is highly unlikely simply because again, Kaladin won't be around to be the third vertex of the triangle. My gut feeling is that there will be limited interaction between Shallan and Kaladin (short spanreed communication, maybe Jasnah passes a note) because poor communication is more Drama than no communication (also, hilarious opportunities for misunderstanding).

[Confused]

What if KR can't form romantic entanglements, even if they want to? The two ardents in WoK couldn't despite their obvious affection, presumably because of their religious oaths. I doubt any of the KR oaths preclude relationships, but maybe the spren get in the way? 4 sentient beings in bed together? The image reminds me of the final scene of the 1969 movie "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice," with Natalie Wood, Robert Culp, Elliott Gould, and Dyan Cannon all in the same bed looking at each other with an expression of "now what do we do?"

 

There have been so many types of love triangles in movies, books and legends that I don't know what Brandon considers typical or conventional. As Seloun (whose posts are always so thoughtful and well-written) and others point out, the real and metaphorical distance between Kaladin and Shallan in Book 3 raises all sorts of possibilities for conflict and misunderstanding.

 

Here's my take: Zandi proposed in this thread that Wit's "Fleet" story was Brandon's "reveal" of the "last chapter" of the entire Stormlight Archives series. (WoB: the last chapter of SA is revealed somewhere in WoK or WoR.) The idea of Kaladin's soul rising to race the wind eternally makes a lot of sense to me. I believe that the last chapter is after the last book's climax, perhaps many years after, just as the last chapters of WoK and WoR occur after the action in those books has concluded. But such an ending suggests to me that Kaladin is alone when he dies, just as Fleet was alone. Perhaps Kaladin's lover predeceases him, but I get a different sense.

 

Given Kaladin's honorable nature, I can see him not pursuing Shallan at all while she's betrothed to Adolin. And by the time that relationship ends (if it does), Kaladin may be in his own relationship and honor-bound not to pursue Shallan for that reason. Kaladin so far has been a pretty tragic, even pathetic (meaning "marked by sorrow," not "pitiable") character. Brandon may create a situation where the two never get together despite their obvious love for each other. While hardly original, that would certainly not be a conventional resolution of the A-S-K triangle.

 

I hope this perspective doesn't depress the "shippers" out there...

Edited March 30, 2014 by Confused

[Mistdork]

How about a ShallanXStick option? That is the ultimate OTP, forever, so much better than ShallanXAnyoneElse! You know it's true, you feel it in your heart and...*breaks minds*

 

Seriously though, Brandon doesn't seem to like love-triangles, so I think that this might be resolved either by Kaladin finding someone else or at the very least, not pursuing Shallan while she is in a relationship with Adolin. A relationship between Kaladin and Shallan would be quite complicated, he killed her brother and their different orders (and conflicting spren) would make that relationship difficult to maintain. They might find each other attractive, but sometimes that's just it, two people find each other attracted but because of conflicting interests/opinions/pasts they never "hit it off". It happens in real life, but I can't say that it's a usual take in fiction...Perhaps this is just me wanting Kaladin to not have relational entanglements (because he's conflicted and complicated enough already) than it is me voting for either side...

 

Honestly, if Shallan ends up with Adolin, I wouldn't care. If she doesn't, that's fine too. I'm not really reading these books for shipping.

[LSU Tiger]

Here is my theory on poor Shallans tortured future.

 

Adolin will become depressed over the guilt and feeling of being marginalized be the others rise to prominence. This will cause Shallan to start pining for Kaladin. Mraize will then break her with the news Kal killed her brother. He will then convince her to leave with him before Kals return.

 

​Her leaving will hit Adolin even harder. He will sit in his room drinking and talking to his sword. He will eventually revive the spren, they will bond, he will recover, But out of guilt and a desire to unite their power he marries Ialai.

 

While with Mraize Shallan will learn many truths. She will do terrible things and have terrible things done to her. She will eventually face truth of what she done and who she has become and will have the strength to return to the KR after dealing a devastating blow to the Ghostbloods.

 

​Upon her return she will become pillow friends with Jasnah but alas it is not love only comfort, She and Kaladin ship part 2 book 5.

[AerionBFII]

Here is my theory on poor Shallans tortured future.

 

Adolin will become depressed over the guilt and feeling of being marginalized be the others rise to prominence. This will cause Shallan to start pining for Kaladin. Mraize will then break her with the news Kal killed her brother. He will then convince her to leave with him before Kals return.

 

​Her leaving will hit Adolin even harder. He will sit in his room drinking and talking to his sword. He will eventually revive the spren, they will bond, he will recover, But out of guilt and a desire to unite their power he marries Ialai.

 

While with Mraize Shallan will learn many truths. She will do terrible things and have terrible things done to her. She will eventually face truth of what she done and who she has become and will have the strength to return to the KR after dealing a devastating blow to the Ghostbloods.

 

​Upon her return she will become pillow friends with Jasnah but alas it is not love only comfort, She and Kaladin ship part 2 book 5.

Hahahaha literally LOL'd so hard at this.

Yeah i don't think or want her to end up with Kaladin! Kaladin is my favorite character in SA he strike's me as too honorable to steal Adolins girl

I like Shallan, liked Adolin in book one for most of book 2 just thought he was an arrogant chull but i hope they stay together.

I think Kaladin will have somebody else  

[maxal]

Adolin all the way. I wasn't so sure in the beginning but that first date and its epic conversation about "number twos" changed my mind.  I think Shallan is pretty much herself with him: curious, sharp tongued, engaging. I love the fact that even though Adolin is supposed to be this womanizer, he is pretty much clueless about many things and he is somewhat quite reserved (as most Alethi). Shallan is the one to jump on him and kiss him is all instance. It reminded me of Navani with Dalinar.

 

Now I can't wait for her to jump on him, tear the clothes appart, send Pattern in the corridor for an hour or two and hum get it on with it

[don_karma_II]

I ship... Lopellan..      I mean He glows, she glows too. He's got a lot of cousin's and she's got a lot of brothers. He's got the herdazian jokes especially the one armed ones and she's got all other jokes. They complete each other. And when they meet She can say " Lopen you can glow too? I think you should Kiss me now!!" Since the Herdazian king doesn't have any daughters, Shallan is the next best thing I guess. 

[Crazy Mraize]

No clue why, but I always figured Jasnah and Kaladin were going to be the odd couple that makes it.  

[Aether]

No clue why, but I always figured Jasnah and Kaladin were going to be the odd couple that makes it.  

There will ALWAYS be an up-vote  from me for Jasnah/Kaladin ships!

[Aleksiel]

No clue why, but I always figured Jasnah and Kaladin were going to be the odd couple that makes it.  

 

They'll be like Aladdin and Jasmine. Their names are close enough, she'a princess and he's a poor guy with a genie/spren. Ship confirmed!

[Aether]

They'll be like Aladdin and Jasmine. Their names are close enough, she'a princess and he's a poor guy with a genie/spren. Ship confirmed!

In this scenario, would Syl be Robin Williams?

[darkanimereal1]

In this scenario, would Syl be Robin Williams?

 

She's witty enough.

[Aether]

She's witty enough.

And doesn't (yet?) tend towards obnoxiousness.

[Aleksiel]

In this scenario, would Syl be Robin Williams?

 

I compared Syl to the character Genie, not to the voice-actor, so not really since it was mostly to point Kal and Al both have a non-human companion giving them powers 

[Aether]

I compared Syl to the character Genie, not to the voice-actor, so not really since it was mostly to point Kal and Al both have a non-human companion giving them powers 

If we are to be really honest here, Robin Williams might be accredited with playing Genie, but he is really just playing a blue and animated version of himself.

[traceria]

Wow, this topic really has gone all over the place since a few days ago! I voted back then, but I'll throw out why now.

I totally voted for the pairing I like best and not with anything else in mind. I have no book passages to back up my feelings, just personal preference alone.

I voted for Shallan/Adolin. To me, I like how they interact, even if it seems shallow right now. Adolin I've always liked, even while he was annoying my husband (throughout WoK), and have found him to be loyal to his family and a generally likeable if clueless (about women) guy. I feel that after all the darkness Shallan's had in her past, Adolin is a nice breath of fresh air, especially in the midst of what passes for Armageddon on Roshar. We've seen a darker side to Adolin recently, but I could easily see their relationship getting to a point where the two of them share their darker sides. Adolin seems more acceptant of people in general (Sadeas being the exception), and I would hope Shallan for all her sneaking/acting/infiltrating would be able to embrace this attitude, too, where Adolin's choices are concerned.

Like I said, totally my feelings on this. I just like them as they are now and where they might head as a couple. No relationship is easy. They all require tough work. I'm just hopeful the two of them can work through the struggles that are inevitable.

[digitalbusker]

An excerpt from Tomes Unfeasible: Volume III of Book X of The Stormlight Archive.

 

Chapter 134: Endings and Beginnings

Kaladin Stormblessed touched down lightly in the blackened stone crater that marked the site of Odium's long-hoped-for final defeat. He couldn't have articulated what drew him to this terrible place, especially when the whole world was celebrating without him, but he felt it was important to be here. He was surprised to see he was not alone. Shallan stood and turned to face him, tucking something under the boulder she'd been sitting on. Storms, had she been sketching the crater?

"Oh hello, bridgeboy," she called, settling back against the stone.

Kaladin, despite the solemness he'd been feeling moments earlier, found himself chuckling, and he walked over to join her in contemplating the devastation. "I haven't heard that since...." he trailed off, but he saw Shallan wince--of course she had heard the words he hadn't said: since Adolin died. "I..." he was going to say "I'm sorry," but it came out "I miss him, too."

Shallan sighed. "You know, it's barely been a year, but this last year has been so crazy, it feels like--I don't know."

Kaladin turned toward her. "It feels like it's been forever, and it feels like yesterday?"

She straightened up. "Yes! That, exactly. I wish he could have seen this, what we did here, but I know he never doubted the outcome."

Kaladin snorted. "That made one of us, then." Shallan nodded, one corner of her mouth twitching up into a crooked smile. "You realize that by 'us' I mean every human being on Roshar, right? Spren and Listeners too, come to think."

Shallan met his eyes and shook her head resignedly. "What are we going to do, Kaladin?"

Kaladin felt like the conversation had gotten away from him somewhere, so he tossed the question back. "What do you think?"

Shallan was quiet, and Kaladin shivered inwardly as he looked in her eyes and saw, just for a moment, the depth of pain she was carrying. Then, just as she had on that night all those years ago, she smiled anyway. Storms, it was still beautiful. "We," she said, "are going to go share a baywrap and a bottle of wine." She took his arm and began gently but firmly pulling him towards the western edge of the crater, where the sun was just beginning to slip behind the jagged rim.

"You know," Kaladin mused, "I had a huge crush on you back in the day."

Shallan laughed again. "Yes, astonishingly that fact did not escape my attention. I assume I was similarly transparent?"

"Not really. You had me half-convinced you hated me most of the time."

"Well if that's what kept us apart when we were young and stupid, then all to the better. Can you imagine how badly that would have gone?"

Kaladin couldn't remember the last time he'd really laughed. He did so now. "Storms, what a disaster we would have been! Remember when you stole my boots?"

Laughing, they walked together into the sunset.

That's how I hope it ends.

Edited April 24, 2014 by digitalbusker

[FeatherWriter]

Well then, mini fic in the thread. I like! Well... assuming that I'm reading this correctly and this is Friendship!Shalladin and not shippy. It could go either way I suppose, but it works very well as "wow we were so silly back then, it's much better with us just being friends" which... is exactly how I like my Shalllan and Kaladin relationships!

 

(But... you killed Adolin.... *cries*)

[don_karma_II]

Just finished reading 'White Sand', seeing a lot of similarities between Shallan, Kaladin and Khriss, Kenton pair.

[Eri]

I think Kaladin is too emorionally intense for Shallan, he can remind her of her father too much. Sure, he's not a drunk and he's not a bad person (too much), but he can get really angry and intense, I think he can be possesive too. Shalladin could be a very toxic relationship for both of them IMO.

 

I like her scenes with Adolin, this works pretty well and can get many ups and downs without love triangle issues.

 

KaladinxJasnah FTW. (however, if only Lift was older…)

 

Edited April 25, 2014 by Eri