Shallan's Relationship

[maxal]

I get downvoted for this? Really?

 

I am sorry but facts are facts. Here. Wikipedia.

 

A 2002 survey in the United States by National Center for Health Statistics found that 1.8 percent of men ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 2.3 percent homosexual, and 3.9 percent as "something else". The same study found that 2.8 percent of women ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 1.3 percent homosexual, and 3.8 percent as "something else".^[38]

 

Most people aren't interested in both sex. Period. Downvoting me for expressing it in what I believe was a polite manner is rather rude. Now people can still ship whoever they want, but other people are still allowed to question the validity of such pairings.

[Kogiopsis]

I get downvoted for this? Really?

 

I am sorry but facts are facts. Here. Wikipedia.

 

A 2002 survey in the United States by National Center for Health Statistics found that 1.8 percent of men ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 2.3 percent homosexual, and 3.9 percent as "something else". The same study found that 2.8 percent of women ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 1.3 percent homosexual, and 3.8 percent as "something else".^[38]

 

Most people aren't interested in both sex. Period. Downvoting me for expressing it in what I believe was a polite manner is rather rude. Now people can still ship whoever they want, but other people are still allowed to question the validity of such pairings.

 

I'd hazard you got downvoted for insisting that, were Jasnah queer, she would have chosen her career entirely because of that.  You persist in treating non-heterosexual identity as the sole driving force in her life, which is reductive and nonsensical. There's no reason she can't be 1) homoromantic, 2) disinclined to marry, and 3) a deeply motivated scholar without any of those being causative for any other.

 

Edit:  Also, what percentage of the Rosharan population do you think are Knights Radiant?  It may be time to accept that we're not dealing with random sampling here.  Or you could just go with not erasing bisexuality; that'd be nice too.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Kogiopsis

[maxal]

I'd hazard you got downvoted for insisting that, were Jasnah queer, she would have chosen her career entirely because of that.  You persist in treating non-heterosexual identity as the sole driving force in her life, which is reductive and nonsensical. There's no reason she can't be 1) homoromantic, 2) disinclined to marry, and 3) a deeply motivated scholar without any of those being causative for any other.

 

Actually, I was not insisting on it or it was not my intention. You asked why people would think this way and I have answered. It is a common trope: character choosing a life of intellectual celibacy because they are unable to live their personal life as they wished. It was done over and over again. So yes, if Jasnah turns out being queer, I will ask myself the question if that was not the driving force being her choices and I would hate if it were.

 

I agree it does not have to be this way. It could be as you say, but in a very traditional world such as Roshar, I half-expect it to turn out differently.

 

I like Jasnah as she is: strong women able to live her life outside the standard expectations of her society and this independently of her sexual orientation no matter what it ends up being.

[Kogiopsis]

Actually, I was not insisting on it or it was not my intention. You asked why people would think this way and I have answered. It is a common trope: character choosing a life of intellectual celibacy because they are unable to live their personal life as they wished. It was done over and over again. So yes, if Jasnah turns out being queer, I will ask myself the question if that was not the driving force being her choices and I would hate if it were.

 

I agree it does not have to be this way. It could be as you say, but in a very traditional world such as Roshar, I half-expect it to turn out differently.

 

I like Jasnah as she is: strong women able to live her life outside the standard expectations of her society and this independently of her sexual orientation no matter what it ends up being.

 

If you're not insisting on it, then why do you keep bringing it up as an argument against her being queer?  This is especially pronounced given that everything we have seen of Jasnah to date points to her being interested in scholastic pursuits for their own sake; we even saw that mindset from inside her head in the prologue to WoR, where she starts wondering about anthropological questions even as her father is being attacked before her.  There is overwhelming evidence that Jasnah is a scholar because she wants and chose to be; moreover, we see her flaunt Vorin tradition flagrantly, in wearing and seeming to use a soulcaster and in openly speaking of her heretical beliefs.  There is no reason to believe that, were Jasnah passionate about something, she would let herself be constrained by arbitrary rules against it.

 

Against that body of evidence, yes, your bringing up the idea that she shouldn't be a lesbian because it would detract from the validity of her choices does read as insistence, especially since you've repeated it three times now.

[hoser]

I know nothing, but I think that shipping has it's own conventions that don't match much of the rest of the site.

I get downvoted for this? Really?

 

I am sorry but facts are facts. Here. Wikipedia.

 

A 2002 survey in the United States by National Center for Health Statistics found that 1.8 percent of men ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 2.3 percent homosexual, and 3.9 percent as "something else". The same study found that 2.8 percent of women ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 1.3 percent homosexual, and 3.8 percent as "something else".^[38]

 

Most people aren't interested in both sex. Period. Downvoting me for expressing it in what I believe was a polite manner is rather rude. Now people can still ship whoever they want, but other people are still allowed to question the validity of such pairings.

Where other theories are challenged for how well they fit all of the text, shipping seems more creative.  There seems to be an ethos of acceptance.  It seems to be okay to argue strongly for one's POV, but dismissing the POV of others seems to be frowned on, if that makes any sense. 

At the risk of speaking for others whose POV I don't really know, I treat shipping threads as ways to enhance the experience of the fantasy world using the texts as a base, but not trying to stick to the facts or statistics. 

Apologies to all that I have offended with my crude misunderstandings. 

[maxal]

If you're not insisting on it, then why do you keep bringing it up as an argument against her being queer?  This is especially pronounced given that everything we have seen of Jasnah to date points to her being interested in scholastic pursuits for their own sake; we even saw that mindset from inside her head in the prologue to WoR, where she starts wondering about anthropological questions even as her father is being attacked before her.  There is overwhelming evidence that Jasnah is a scholar because she wants and chose to be; moreover, we see her flaunt Vorin tradition flagrantly, in wearing and seeming to use a soulcaster and in openly speaking of her heretical beliefs.  There is no reason to believe that, were Jasnah passionate about something, she would let herself be constrained by arbitrary rules against it.

 

Against that body of evidence, yes, your bringing up the idea that she shouldn't be a lesbian because it would detract from the validity of her choices does read as insistence, especially since you've repeated it three times now.

 

I mentioned it once in this thread. The other two times I have mentioned it was because I was asked about it or got re-posted about it. I am sincerely not making an obsession out of the thing and I believe I was not even the one to bring out the subject to begin with.

 

I never said she shouldn't be a lesbian, I said I would hate if it were the reason she choose the life of a scholar. Besides, I believe it is harder to come out as openly homosexual in a society that most likely condemns such unions then to come out as a non-believer, but this is my take.

 

Look, I am sorry you seem to take this whole conversation on such a personal level. You misinterpret many of the things I have said. As I said, you may ship whoever you want, but if it is outside canon, you must realize people will not follow you, especially since you seem to assume all characters could possibly change their sexual orientation based on the premise it happens in real-life. It does happen, but my point is it is highly unlikely. Nothing is impossible, but it is still improbable.

 

Also, editing with bold capitalization was unnecessary, but I will not go so far as to downvote you for it or simply because we disagree. I reserve downvoting for people who are actually purposely trying to be hurtful. I will assume that was not your intention and I assure you it was not mine either. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[Kogiopsis]

I mentioned it once in this thread. The other two times I have mentioned it was because I was asked about it or got re-posted about it. I am sincerely not making an obsession out of the thing and I believe I was not even the one to bring out the subject to begin with.

 

While you weren't the first to bring it up, and I wouldn't suggest that you're obsessed with it, you did continue to defend the idea that sexuality would motivate her career choice.  Notably it isn't until later in the thread that you start to emphasize that that is only one possible interpretation of the combination of sexuality + scholarship; prior to that you made statements like "having her living up the life of a scholar simply because she is a lesbian would sort of ruin the whole point", as causation were a foregone conclusion.

 

I never said she shouldn't be a lesbian, I said I would hate if it were the reason she choose the life of a scholar. Besides, I believe it is harder to come out as openly homosexual in a society that most likely condemns such unions then to come out as a non-believer, but this is my take.

 

Recall that Jasnah is not merely an outspoken atheist, but an outspoken atheist who wears and regularly uses a deeply holy object, in open defiance (and to some people's view, disrespect) of the dominant religion of her part of the world.  That said - we don't know that Roshar condemns homosexuality, and it shouldn't be assumed that they do (as I've previously argued).  There's certainly no reason to assume that homosexual/queer Alethi would face the violent reprisals that people in a lot of Western nations do in the modern day.  The only evidence that might actually suggest anything about societal perspectives on sexuality is that we've only seen heterosexual couples on the page, but in that you can't ignore the the narrow focus of the books thus far: the only major character outside of the noble class is Kaladin, who exists in an environment where everyone around him expects to die any day.  (moreover Kaladin, as flashbacks have shown us, is oblivious to romantic overtures even when they're directed at him; I doubt he'd correctly identify flirting between other people.)  Members of the upper class, particularly politically significant ones like the Kholins, may have other restrictions on their marriages including the expectation of heirs, which makes them less than useful in extrapolating norms.

 

Look, I am sorry you seem to take this whole conversation on such a personal level. You misinterpret many of the things I have said. As I said, you may ship whoever you want, but if it is outside canon, you must realize people will not follow you, especially since you seem to assume all characters could possibly change their sexual orientation based on the premise it happens in real-life. It does happen, but my point is it is highly unlikely. Nothing is impossible, but it is still improbable.

 

You may be interested to know that I hit my cap on downvotes before this debate began, so clearly I'm not the only one your comments have bothered.  That aside - the reason that they do affect people personally is that arguments like yours are regularly used to keep people from being represented in media.  It's especially problematic when it comes to bisexuality, as bi people are often criticized both by homophobes and fellow queer people, who treat them as liars for not picking one or the other.

 

As far as the idea of impossibility/improbability goes:  this is a fictional world, with a fictional cast of characters deliberately created over a period of years by a human being.  Let's not pretend that statistical probability is relevant at all, because this is an entirely artificial system.

 

I'm not going to address your last paragraph, as it's largely irrelevant except for the non-apology at the end.  What I will say is this:  Ship what you like, argue what ships you like, but remember that shipping is about character dynamics.  If you don't think Shallan and Jasnah would be a healthy couple, say that, but making flat statements about what their sexualities supposedly could not be comes off as dismissive at best.

 

 

 

I know nothing, but I think that shipping has it's own conventions that don't match much of the rest of the site.

Where other theories are challenged for how well they fit all of the text, shipping seems more creative.  There seems to be an ethos of acceptance.  It seems to be okay to argue strongly for one's POV, but dismissing the POV of others seems to be frowned on, if that makes any sense. 

At the risk of speaking for others whose POV I don't really know, I treat shipping threads as ways to enhance the experience of the fantasy world using the texts as a base, but not trying to stick to the facts or statistics. 

Apologies to all that I have offended with my crude misunderstandings. 

 

As a long-time shipper, I'd say you've understood it perfectly.  There is also the fact that Earth-based statistics are irrelevant to most fantasy novels, but the end result of both is the same: there's no place for those numbers in shipping discussions.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Kogiopsis

[maxal]

...

 

You are going too far. You are way way way out of line here.

 

I am sorry you feel we should not mentioned the sexual orientation of character, according to canon, while discussing shipping. For me, it is the most relevant thing as if someone does not sail a ship, then the ship will never leave port.

 

This topic will derailed if I keep posting on it as I am really really angry right now. The downvotes are unfair and the tones of your messages are aggressive.

 

I thus leave this conversation before the mods come in at once and I'll come back once the subject is over. If someone feels the need to downvote me further, please have the decency to explain why and please to so in private. As I believe I was being respectful, I believe the downvotes are uncalled for. If you feel differently, write to me in private.

 

Thank you.

[DeployParachute]

C'mon, sexuality is and never has been binary.  Liking one gender does not mean you could never like someone of a different gender.

 

 

Yes, agree with you that human sexuality as a whole is not binary, and liking one gender does not preclude one from liking another.  I have not seen any post here arguing against this.  Now perhaps a better way that maxal's point could have been presented was to say that on an individual basis, there is a stronger likelihood for that person's sexuality to be binary, and there are statistics based on polls to support that.  Whether one chooses to put much weight into such data is up to that person, polls can be misleading after all, statistics fudged and so forth.  So what does this have to do with the argument at hand?  Probably not much, like you said, this is a fantasy world, and transplanting real world statistics and data into it kind of takes the fun out of everything.  

 

Though something to consider: it is my understanding that sexual orientation/preferences, while a combination of both biological and social factors, the biological factor plays a bigger role.  Rosharans are depicted as biologically human (though there is a much greater variation in the genome it appears), and is it so far fetched to believe that the same biological factors that influence the percentages on the sexual spectrum here on Earth wouldn't also come into play on Roshar?  Just a thought.

 

 

 

Also, I'm confused as to why people think Jasnah being lesbian/bi/queer-romantic would be the cause of her life trajectory.  I've never met anyone who decided on a career based on their sexuality, and Jasnah gives every indication of having genuine passion for her work.  It's not a second choice or a fallback for her, it's what she cares about, and it's entirely separate from who she's attracted to.

 

Probably a poor choice of words in the first sentence.  Life trajectory seems to cover a very broad spectrum here, and I think you probably agree that one's sexual orientation and preferences certainly do impact decisions and directions made during an individual's life.  So let's just stick to the scholarship aspect of Jasnah's choices.  I agree with you wholeheartedly that Jasnah has an innate passion for her scholarship, and her sexual preferences have nothing to do with that.  Perhaps the better way of explaining what I think maxal's point was is to say that her sexual preferences could have influenced how she chose to pursue those passions.

 

What do I mean by this?  Well, Jasnah always struck me as an individual who preferred to keep to her own devices.  She's a lone wolf, and she tackled her scholarship in such a fashion.  She is very intelligent, very critical of the world and her environment, a good skeptical scientific mind, and is not afraid to speak out against the mainstream.  She seems guarded, and not particularly concerned with having very many close relationships with others.  She has a few, but even those don't seem to top her priority list.  Not saying she doesn't care about those close to her, just that the way her mind works includes a mechanism of prioritization that can seem to come off as very cold and calculated.  Nothing wrong with this, and to those that know her well, they know it is not the whole truth of her.  All and all, though, it always seemed to me that Jasnah has chosen a life very isolated from others in the pursuit of her passion: scholarship.

 

This is the picture (I believe) of the character that many readers have taken a heavy interest in and liking to, maxal included.  It is my understanding from the postings that maxal prefers to believe that Jasnah made these choices based on internal factors of her personality rather than external, as that is what makes her seem a more interesting character to maxal (and likely others but not all).  However, considering the possibility Jasnah may not be heterosexual also means that maxal had to consider how that possibility has an effect on her choices in pursuit of scholarship. The fear of potentially being ostracized by friends and family for one's sexual orientation is a common literary device these days, and it's not much of a stretch to believe should Jasnah turn out to not be heterosexual then such a device is a possibility.   Did she invest more heavily in her isolated scholarship because sharing in her scholarship too deeply with others risked outing her?  Did diving more heavily into scholarship help prevent her from having to be confronted about marriage to someone not of her sexual preference?  This introduces an external factor that could have caused Jasnah to choose a means of pursuing her scholarship that she would not have chosen should that external factor been absent.  It is a possibility, and as you have stated many times throughout these forums, just because it is not written does not mean it can't happen.  If one is not allowed to rule out a character having a non binary sexual preference unless it is explicitly written, then so too should one not be allowed to rule out the possibility that Jasnah's sexual orientation could have had an impact on how she chose to pursue her scholarship.

 

Maxal was only stating that should this scenario turn out to be the case, it would take a bit away from what maxal liked about the character, because the motivations behind Jasnah's approach to her scholarship would have changed.  Maxal has every right to have this opinion on the matter.  Maxal is not stating that he/she does not want Jasnah to be homosexual or bisexual or wherever else on the spectrum she could be.  Nor is Maxal excluding the possibility that she could be any of those things.  

 

 

As for Jasnah, I would stipulate that, considering the world she lives in, her being a lesbian could have been a factor as to why she choose to never marry. 

 

Maxal's posts focus on Jasnah's sexuality having an influence on her scholarship, and her marital status.  In all of such posts, I did not see anywhere where maxal stated with certainty what would be the outcome of her sexual preferences.  Maxal always seemed to speak in the realm of possibility.

 

Subsequently, your responses on the other hand...

I'd hazard you got downvoted for insisting that, were Jasnah queer, she would have chosen her career entirely because of that.  You persist in treating non-heterosexual identity as the sole driving force in her life, which is reductive and nonsensical. There's no reason she can't be 1) homoromantic, 2) disinclined to marry, and 3) a deeply motivated scholar without any of those being causative for any other.

 

 

...seem to disregard this and ascribe to maxal's words a measure of certainty that is not there.  You also seem reconstruct maxal's argument into one of "treating non-heterosexual identity as the sole driving force in her life...".  Again, not the argument that I think maxal was trying to make. Could the wording of maxal's arguments been different to better communicate the ideas?  Maybe.  Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what maxal was trying to say entirely.  Regardless, the misunderstanding seems to have resulted in a muddling of maxal's original idea. No one likes to be flamed for an opinion they weren't trying to put forth, and I can see why maxal would have gotten upset.  I hope you see this too, and I hope that there is room in the future for more positive discussions.

 

 

All in all, I enjoyed writing this, because it really got me thinking about a character that I hadn't spent much time on in the past, and it has enriched my enjoyment of her and the possibilities she presents to the rest of the novels.

[vandalhearts]

I get downvoted for this? Really?

 

I am sorry but facts are facts. Here. Wikipedia.

 

A 2002 survey in the United States by National Center for Health Statistics found that 1.8 percent of men ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 2.3 percent homosexual, and 3.9 percent as "something else". The same study found that 2.8 percent of women ages 18–44 considered themselves bisexual, 1.3 percent homosexual, and 3.8 percent as "something else".^[38]

 

Most people aren't interested in both sex. Period. Downvoting me for expressing it in what I believe was a polite manner is rather rude. Now people can still ship whoever they want, but other people are still allowed to question the validity of such pairings.

 

You got downvoted for arguing theory against fanfiction (or headcannon or whatever they want to call it) shippers. I made the same mistake in the Kaladin thread and was similarly downvoted. They really don't care about facts and textual evidence.

 

 

 

...

 

Edit:  Also, what percentage of the Rosharan population do you think are Knights Radiant?  It may be time to accept that we're not dealing with random sampling here.  Or you could just go with not erasing bisexuality; that'd be nice too.

 

Victim complex much? Pointing out the unlikelihood of any major character being LGBT is not "erasing bisexuality". It is simply pointing out facts and evidence. Do you know the person you are replying to personally that you jump instantly to assuming that he has an axe to grind against bisexuality?

[Eerongal]

Hey, all,

 

We've been watching this thread, due to the potential for flaming coming up here, and we've noticed that the conversation is teetering a bit close to the edge. In an attempt to not have a rather popular topic closed due to arguments getting too heated, I am stepping in to ask everyone to remember to keep your posts on topic, polite, and courteous to our other members, regardless of their thoughts and opinions. We consider ourselves a friendly, open community, and welcome everyone regardless of their political, religious, or sexuality views, and will not tolerate pushing one particular agenda.

 

"Shipping" as it's referred to is not a common thing here on 17th Shard. Any particular 'rules' so far as it's concerned cannot be expected to be understood as rote. And by the same token, theory crafting is VERY popular here, so a stricter adherence to commonly accepted canon is VERY important to the vast majority of our members. It's important to remember this when you're trying to make your case in a scenario such as this.

 

This post isn't directed at any one in particular, just a friendly reminder to keep things from going too far out of control.

[Agewalker]

“People think I know a lot about women. The truth is, I know how to get them, how to make them laugh, how to make them interested. I don't know how to keep them." He hesitated. "I really want to keep this one.” 

 

I admit, Kaladin's my favorite character overall, and I think that he and Shallan worked well together in the chasms, but you can't read this quote and not feel empathy for Adolin's fear of rejection.

He really wants his budding relationship with Shallan to succeed, and seems terrified that she'll dump him for someone else. In addition, I hate to think that Adolin and Kaladin have been building a grudging respect and friendship, despite their prejudices, only to tear it to pieces over a girl they both like.

 

 Do we really need for the two main male and female characters to always end up together in fantasy novels?  Harry Potter was the exception, and even then the author later changed her mind.

[kari-no-sugata]

9 hours ago, Agewalker said:

 Do we really need for the two main male and female characters to always end up together in fantasy novels?  Harry Potter was the exception, and even then the author later changed her mind.

The original Star Wars trilogy was another exception. I can think of others too. Yeah, they're generally the exception when clear romance is a present since the main character's love interest tends to be automatically elevated to "lead" status.

For complex series with a large cast there's no need to do this though. More variety is good!

[Vissy]

As for the stats @maxal posted, they're completely irrelevant. Maybe people forget this, but Roshar is not Earth. Alethi are not humans. There is a completely different biology going on in the Cosmere, "spiritual DNA" and all of that stuff. For all we know, half of the total population of Roshar is homosexual. We've only seen Alethi society in detail, remember.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rob Lucci

[geralt]

9 hours ago, Agewalker said:

“People think I know a lot about women. The truth is, I know how to get them, how to make them laugh, how to make them interested. I don't know how to keep them." He hesitated. "I really want to keep this one.” 

 

I admit, Kaladin's my favorite character overall, and I think that he and Shallan worked well together in the chasms, but you can't read this quote and not feel empathy for Adolin's fear of rejection.

He really wants his budding relationship with Shallan to succeed, and seems terrified that she'll dump him for someone else. In addition, I hate to think that Adolin and Kaladin have been building a grudging respect and friendship, despite their prejudices, only to tear it to pieces over a girl they both like.

 

 Do we really need for the two main male and female characters to always end up together in fantasy novels?  Harry Potter was the exception, and even then the author later changed her mind.

Personally, I don't like this argument. If two characters have good chemistry and suit each other, I think precluding their relationships just because they are both main characters is worse than taking the cliche route. And either way I can think of many examples in which that doesn't happen...

I do agree on not wanting to see Adolin heartbroken, though. Shallan and him made a good couple in WoR and if that ended, especially if it was because Kaladin got in the mix, it would be a terrible blow for Adolin. 

[Agewalker]

4 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

As for the stats @maxal posted, they're completely irrelevant. Maybe people forget this, but Roshar is not Earth. Alethi are not humans. There is a completely different biology going on in the Cosmere, "spiritual DNA" and all of that stuff. For all we know, half of the total population of Roshar is homosexual. We've only seen Alethi society in detail, remember.

That would make reproduction rather difficult...

 

(but yes, I get your point)

[Vissy]

Well, not necessarily. There are many ways homosexual people can have offspring, one of them being that they're in a heterosexual relationship without fully coming to terms with their sexual orientation. But yeah.

[maxal]

10 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

As for the stats @maxal posted, they're completely irrelevant. Maybe people forget this, but Roshar is not Earth. Alethi are not humans. There is a completely different biology going on in the Cosmere, "spiritual DNA" and all of that stuff. For all we know, half of the total population of Roshar is homosexual. We've only seen Alethi society in detail, remember.

Why are you responding to something I wrote 3 years ago????? This isn't a discussion I have any interest in having once again, so I would appreciate if you would leave me out of it and refrained from commenting stuff I wrote so long ago.

Sorry if this sounds abrupt, but this was uncalled for.

[Vissy]

Sorry, but I didn't see that it was 3 years ago. That's a problem with necroed threads.

[maxal]

3 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

Sorry, but I didn't see that it was 3 years ago. That's a problem with necroed threads.

And I apologize for my abrupt reaction. In order to give you a bit of background, three years ago, this particular conversation went down very badly for reasons which aren't all that obvious into the thread, so you will understand why I wasn't keen to plunge myself back into it. I over-reacted yesterday because I couldn't believe someone would dig this one up. Had it not been such a controversial post, I would have reacted differently. I don't usually mind necro threads, but this one truly got to me.

So huh sorry. Carry on discussing 

[Radiant_Jaeger]

@maxal @The One Who Connects But we can all agree that Lift+Lopez (STORM YOU racist AUTOCORRECT.... lol meant lopen.) would be freaking awesome right?! Am I right?

 

 

 

P.S. in no way does this suggest that they Should be together because they both have dark skin

P.P.S. That last post script was a joke meant to lighten the mood in this thread.

P.P.P.S. I'm not very funny

Edited May 7, 2017 by Radiant_Jaeger

[maxal]

7 hours ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

@maxal @The One Who Connects But we can all agree that Lift+Lopez (STORM YOU racist AUTOCORRECT.... lol meant lopen.) would be freaking awesome right?! Am I right?

 

 

 

P.S. in no way does this suggest that they Should be together because they both have dark skin

P.P.S. That last post script was a joke meant to lighten the mood in this thread.

P.P.P.S. I'm not very funny

No, no, no, I have to stubbornly disagree with you  I prefer Kaladin and Lift within the second half of Stormlight (obviously not now, it would be creepy, but in 10 years from now, Lift will be 23 and Kaladin barely 30, this could work). Of all female characters, she is the one I think would work best with Kaladin: she is deeply compassionate, she is caring. It feels to me this is exactly the kind of personality which Kaladin needs to shoulder him during his worst depressive bouts. She also has a unique view of the world, she comes from an humble environment and well, I guess I just like the idea.

[Radiant_Jaeger]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

No, no, no, I have to stubbornly disagree with you  I prefer Kaladin and Lift within the second half of Stormlight (obviously not now, it would be creepy, but in 10 years from now, Lift will be 23 and Kaladin barely 30, this could work). Of all female characters, she is the one I think would work best with Kaladin: she is deeply compassionate, she is caring. It feels to me this is exactly the kind of personality which Kaladin needs to shoulder him during his worst depressive bouts. She also has a unique view of the world, she comes from an humble environment and well, I guess I just like the idea.

But she's 10 forever!? (Although I'm still not sure if she is actuallly metabolically forced to remain that age or if it is a joke. You never know with Sanderson.)

[maxal]

46 minutes ago, Radiant_Jaeger said:

But she's 10 forever!? (Although I'm still not sure if she is actuallly metabolically forced to remain that age or if it is a joke. You never know with Sanderson.)

She does age, she just doesn't want to acknowledge it.

[kari-no-sugata]

While I am certainly interested in seeing who Shallan will end up with I'm also rather interested in what kind of "job" she will end up with, long term. Assuming she survives of course. She could become anything from a wandering artist/researcher to a Queen (most obvious option being of her homeland).

On a different note but related to the posts above, I do hope to see Shallan and Lift interact in the next book - it should be quite fun! (They would likely be able to meet if they can open the appropriate Oathgate).

Getting back to Kaladin (maybe someone should start an equivalent thread for him?), my feeling from how things are in the books and various comments Brandon has made is that Kaladin's real romance won't occur until the 2nd half of the series (though maybe I'm over-interpreting things). So, assuming she grows up mentally and physically, then Lift could be a possibility.