Shallan's Relationship

[dhazellouise]

This is really off topic on my part, but: Adolin did snap, but he wanted to deal with Sadeas ever since the Tower. Adolin didn't feel the Thrill which is as of now believed to be of Odium, so he wasn't under an external influence when he killed him. There are WoB saying some Orders of the KR would approve of his actions. 

 

Edit: ah, still off topic, I'm sorry

He has a spren, but that doesn't mean he has said enough words to have the level of connection required to form him into a Blade. As for the other statement, it can't be proved yet, but you can speculate on it.

Yes, I agree. Adolin was itching to make Sadeas pay for his betrayal almost throughout the entire book. Yes, he stopped feeling the thrill but it still doesnt mean that Odium has stopped influencing hm. Odium has more influence upon those who are hateful. Adolin has been hateful towards Sadeas throughout the entire book. I don't know....suddenly killng Sadeas was extremely out of character of him?

 

I read somewhere that someone ask Brandon Sanderson if Adolin will become a Skybreaker, and Mr. Sanderson said No. But another order of Knight will probably accept him which is said to Dustbringer, an order who focuses on obedience. And it seems Adolin doesn't fit this order at all? Adolin was obedient until he killed Sadeas. He broke his father's codes. I dont think Adolin will become a Knight Radiant....

 

As for Renarin, well we dont know yet that Renarin have already reached the same level as Shallan and Kaladin. But I  think he is nearly there. I also think that Renarin has a spren like a long time ago...his supposed ailment is probably the cause of his ability to see the future. And he had it like a long time ago, which could mean that Renarin has the spren earlier than even Kaladin? So he can probably get his shardblade soon...maybe in the next book?

 

I think the spren is the opposite gender of the Knight Radiant that they bonded with?

Kaladin has a female spren.

Shallan looks to have a male spren.

Jasnah's seems to be male as well.

Lift's is also male.

 

Well, except for Danilar who has the Stormfather. But bondsmiths are rare...

 

So Renarin has a female spren as well?

But does spren really have  gender?

Edited March 12, 2014 by dhazellouise

[Aleksiel]

Odium has more influence upon those who are hateful. Adolin has been hateful towards Sadeas throughout the entire book. I don't know....suddenly killng Sadeas was extremely out of character of him?

 

I read somewhere that someone ask Brandon Sanderson if Adolin will become a Skybreaker, and Mr. Sanderson said No. But another order of Knight will accept him which is said to Dustbringer, an order who focuses on obedience. And it seems Adolin fit this order at all. I dont think Adolin will become a Knight Radiant....

 

 

We don't know how much influence Odium has, so it's an open discussion; no, I didn't feel out of character to me, but I can understand everyone who believes otherwise.

 

Why wouldn't Adolin become a KR if he is fit for a Dustbringer? He is far more obedient than Kaladin. He hasn't disobeyed Dalinar so far despite the fact he strongly disagreed with him on many things. Adolin is obedient in his actions.

 

But I really don't want to spam further, so I suggest you either pm me or we move this discussion to another thread

[ssd6]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I think Kaladin will toy with telling her for most of the book, during the brief meets they have as they are at different parts of the world. Then when he finally goes to tell her she will confront him with it having found out on her own and will break up whatever "relationship" they have at that point.

 

Also dhazellouise, that earlier thesis, I mean, post you wrote was amazing! You did your research. Haha!

 

 

Kaladin is too honorable to toy with the idea of making a move on her or telling her how he feels. He's not going to step between Adolin and her relationship, he's not the type and he's already admitted that he'll be happy for them since they work (he'll just hate that they work). He's already  made his peace with his feelings and admitted to them, I doubt it's going to haunt him or make him constantly doubt himself, he's had enough of that through the first two books. 

 

I'm starting to think that Shallan will hitch a ride with Kaladin at the start of the next book. She already tried connecting to the other portals from where she is and they are locked, probably from their location. The next logical step is for her to go activate them or attempt to remove the lock at each portal in person, and the fastest way to move around the world right now without the portals working is Kaladin. There's literally 10's of thousands of lives on the line and the queen. His home is pretty close to the capital when you think about how he can fly and if Shallan wanted to move by land it'd take ages for her to get to the capitol and be too late by then. 

 

This is where I think the problem is going to be on Shallan's end, her characters had a huge amount of plot dedicated to self denial and she's already begun to deny how she feels about Kaladin. My very rough prediction is that as they travel together she continues falling harder for him (even if its not them traveling together, I see it going in this direction). However, with Adolin and probably finding out later that Kaladin killed her brother, she'll deny her feelings even more vehemently. Who'd want to admit to falling for the guy that killed their brother, even if it was understandable that he had no choice. However, she's a truth seeker, and denying her own feelings will hinder her ability to be a radiant and she'll have to come to terms with her feelings for Kaladin at a lot of anguish to herself. I could see this being her next step as a radiant, admitting to a truth about herself that she doesn't want too. With her mother and father it was more that she didn't want the truth about what she had done, but with this it's more about the truth of what she wants, not what she has done.

 

I'm probably going to be way off, but who knows. I just don't see why she'd stay to study Urithiru when there's so many lives on the line at the moment and she's the one that knows the portal system (other than Jasnah). 

Edited March 12, 2014 by ssd6

[Konn]

LOL, way to go to stop spamming @Aleksiel

[Galladon]

I wonder if Navani is going to have a motherly chat with her about choosing the 'RIGHT' man... seems like she'd know something about that.

[MistWit]

Shallan really only seems physically attracted to Adolin and doesn't seem to really emotionally click with him. Her real reason for starting a relationship with him was to save her brothers, who should be on their way safe and sound. Without the added protection Adolin offered, I think Shallan will eventually loose interest in him because his just isn't the kind of person she can relate to. Kaladin/Shallan are so similar and have many thing in common that a relationship just seem so likely.

 

I hate love tringles but I don't think this will turn into one I think Shallan will break it off with Adolin or Adolin will die(he is the most expendable person at the moment) and Shallan/Kalladin will start.

 

I do remember something about kalladin having a romantic relationship with someone while he was a slave but a don't remember the details could someone add to this.

[Nero Vance]

Was it really "murder"? Her brother was kind of killing the majority of Kaladin's squad at the time.

 

While that makes Kaladin's actions justifiable, on an emotional level, I doubt Shallan(or anyone in her position, really) would be able to just ignore that. Like I don't think she would swear revenge on him or anything, because it's hard to blame him for it. But I don't think she's just going to go "Oh, whatever, not your fault, accidents happen" and start making out with him anyway. It's probably the kind of thing that's hard to shake off your head.

[FeatherWriter]

This is really off topic on my part, but: Adolin did snap, but he wanted to deal with Sadeas ever since the Tower. Adolin didn't feel the Thrill which is as of now believed to be of Odium, so he wasn't under an external influence when he killed him. There are WoB saying some Orders of the KR would approve of his actions. 

 

Edit: ah, still off topic, I'm sorry

He has a spren, but that doesn't mean he has said enough words to have the level of connection required to form him into a Blade. As for the other statement, it can't be proved yet, but you can speculate on it. The question mark I used was because I don't know Glys's gender.

 

Glys uses masculine pronouns actually! 

 

“I thought it was me,” Renarin whispered. “My mind. But Glys, he says . . .” Renarin blinked. “Truthwatcher.”

 

(Bold mine.) Interestingly enough, Renarin and Glys are the only surgebinder/spren pair of the same gender thus far! All the others are opposites. I was keeping a very close eye on that during my readthrough.

 

[luminos]

One of the bigger obstacles for a Kaladin/Shallan pairing is they have a lot of inherent conflict in Kaladin's need to protect people he cares about, and Shallan's strong distaste for being "protected".  Still, be interesting to see how things end up.  I think Adolin is more likely, but a lot has to develop there for it to last long term.

[Shards of Mist]

 

 

Glys uses masculine pronouns actually! 

 

 

(Bold mine.) Interestingly enough, Renarin and Glys are the only surgebinder/spren pair of the same gender thus far! All the others are opposites. I was keeping a very close eye on that during my readthrough.

 

 

 

We know that the shape spren take depends on how humans define them(evidenced by the flame spren experiments).  Maybe the spren who bond with surgebinders are the same way?

 

Syl is a female because Kal perceives her to be.

Glys is a male because Renarin perceives him to be...  etc.

 

Maybe their perceptions give us insight into their sexual preferences?  

 

Obviously it doesn't work with the Stormfather and Dalinar, but I would say that's different because the whole continent calls him the Stormfather.  That spren has already been thoroughly defined by humans.

[FeatherWriter]

True, and Syl implies that all spren are gendered by the human conception of the objects they represent.

 

 

Kaladin raised an eyebrow toward Syl.

“I like him,” she said. “Also, Sigzil, I’m a ‘she’ and not an ‘it,’ thank you very much.”

“Spren have genders?” Sigzil asked, amazed.

“Of course,” she said. “Th ough, technically, it probably has something to do with the way people view us. Personification of the forces of nature or some similar gobbletyblarthy.”

“Doesn’t that bother you?” Kaladin asked. “That you might be a creation of human perception?”

“You’re a creation of your parents. Who cares how we were born? I can think. That’s good enough.”

 

I'd actually forgotten about Dalinar and the Stormfather counting as a same-gender pair since they are both male as well.

 

I mean, gender is a mental concept, no matter whose gender we're talking about. It makes sense that spren, as beings who are almost entirely Cognitive, would have their gender concepts being influenced by the people around them.

[paperhouse]

What about the dalinar/stormfather pairing?

Edited March 12, 2014 by paperhouse

[Konn]

One of the bigger obstacles for a Kaladin/Shallan pairing is they have a lot of inherent conflict in Kaladin's need to protect people he cares about, and Shallan's strong distaste for being "protected".  Still, be interesting to see how things end up.  I think Adolin is more likely, but a lot has to develop there for it to last long term.

 

I agree that based on what we know about these characters it seems likely that it might be an argument agains Shalladin, BUT, based on what happened in WoR, it seems that 1) Overprotectiveness is a problematic issue between Adolin and Shallan even though they didn't go through any life-threathening situations together (of course, as pointed out before, Shallan not fitting with Adolin is not an argument in favor of her fitting with Kaladin), and 2), overprotectiveness is not a problematic issue in the interaction between Shallan and Kaladin, even while being in life-threathening and demanding situations. Of course, it might be that it will change if the relationship between Shallan and Kaladin grows more intense and Kaladin feels a stronger need to protect her.

Also, I would like to add that there are actually in my mind some strong parallels between Shallan and Kaladin with regard to being protective. Both have spent much time protecting their family, Shallan protecting her family against her father, debt-collectors etc., and Kaladin protecting Tien and his proxy family after becoming a soldier and bridge man. This becomes obvious, amongst other things, in the chasm-scene when talking about being broken: ""The crushing guilt," she said, "of being powerless. Of wishing they'd hurt you instead of those around you" (pp. 849). I am not saying that this will necessarily make their relationship more or less likely to happen, but I think it is an interesting parallel, that I hasn't seen been commented upon in this thread.

 

[Chrono]

Maybe their perceptions give us insight into their sexual preferences?

Hilariously enough, I was going to suggest that. However, I don't think Renarin is gay, mainly because there's just so little to go off of on him. He's never seen really interacting with any woman except Shallan, and that was maybe five pages at most. Women describe him as "weird and creepy" but one doesn't have to be homosexual for that. I know plenty of guys who are creepy and completely straight.

The same gender spren thing reminded me of the daemons from His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman. In an interview, a person asked him if a person with a daemon the same gender as them was an indication of homosexuality, and he said "Oh, sure. Let's go with that."

EDIT: Feather, I'm calling upon your Renarin Quote summoning skills. Is there anything in the books that mentions him in a relationship at all? I don't think there's anything besides the things I mentioned.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Chrono

[Nebty]

Voted for Kaladin, both because I like them together best and because I think it's very likely to happen.

 

Honestly, I really wasn't expecting to ship anyone at all in The Stormlight Archive. WoK made me love these characters, just like all Sanderson books do, and I was content to see where they went without pairing them up. I'm not really a fan of shipping characters before you can really gauge what their interactions are like, and everyone was on their own for the majority of WoK (barring Jasnah and Shallan but I love their mentor/student relationship too much to ship them romantically, and Kal/Syl I guess but she's more like an adorable sidekick and really close platonic friend).

 

And then WoR happened and I found myself really surprised at how much I enjoyed Shallan and Kaladin's interactions. I thought for sure he'd be too grumpy and stoic and she too snarky for them to get along. But it turns out that Kal's pretty snarky himself when he's not being constantly beaten down. That scene where Shallan pretends to be a horneater princess and makes him give her his boots had me in stitches, and the follow-up when she tries to get in to see Dalinar was even better. But while snark battles are great and all, it was the chasm scene that really did it. Well, specifically, these lines from the chasm scene:

 

He saw it in her eyes. The anguish, the frustration. The terrible nothing that clawed inside and sought to smother her. She knew. It was there, inside. She had been broken.

 

Then she smiled. Oh, storms. She smiled anyway.

 

It was the single most beautiful thing he’d seen in his entire life.

 

That's...a really powerful couple of lines. Especially considering where Kaladin is right now, emotionally. He's consumed by his past failures, obsessively so. And then he finds someone who is just as broken as he is, maybe more, who has found the will to live despite all of that. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Shallan gives Kaladin hope, and that during the time they spent together he's grown to admire her very much, despite her being a lighteyes. That's a rather profound moment of character development for Kaladin, and Shallan was the catalyst.

 

Shallan is more guarded about her feelings, but there's that passage where she zones out and thinks about Kaladin while talking to Adolin:

 

That was all right. She liked Adolin as he was. He was kind, noble, and genuine. It didn’t matter that he wasn’t brilliant or . . . or whatever else Kaladin was. She couldn’t even define it. So there.

 

Passionate, with an intense , smoldering resolve. A leashed anger that he used, because he had dominated it. And a certain tempting arrogance. Not the haughty pride of a highlord. Instead, the secure, stable sense of determination that whispered that no matter who you were— or what you did—you could not hurt him. Could not change him. He was. Like the wind and rocks were.

 

Interesting how she says she can't define what's brilliant about Kaladin and then goes on to define it anyways. In italics.

 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I also loved just how much fun they seemed to have together. In Words of Radiance, even though all of the principle characters are together in one place now, they're still very isolated, Kaladin and Shallan most of all. Adolin has his family to rely upon. Ditto for Dalinar, and he has Navani as well. While Kaladin loves the men of Bridge Four, he mentions multiple times that they revere him too much for him to confide in them. Shallan has Adolin, but whenever they're together she's always very focused on making a good impression, letting him talk about himself, making sure she's appealing enough to keep him interested in her. In the end, she cares too much about making him perceive her a certain way to truly be able to rely upon him for support. While talking to Adolin is fun, it's also work. In the chasm, Shallan actually made Kaladin Grumpyguts smile. She made him laugh. She caused him to make a terrible pun. Frankly, that's pretty amazing. How many times has Kal let loose like that in the entire time that we've known him? And Kal's complete, blunt, brutal honestly in turn allowed Shallan to tell the truth, something that she's had difficulty doing even to herself.

 

I think I might've rambled a bit, but I really love these two characters. Well, I love all of the characters in this series, but I didn't think that Words of Radiance could make me love Kaladin and Shallan more than I already did.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Nebty

[dhazellouise]

Voted for Kaladin, both because I like them together best and because I think it's very likely to happen.

 

Honestly, I really wasn't expecting to ship anyone at all in The Stormlight Archive. WoK made me love these characters, just like all Sanderson books do, and I was content to see where they went without pairing them up. I'm not really a fan of shipping characters before you can really gauge what their interactions are like, and everyone was on their own for the majority of WoK (barring Jasnah and Shallan but I love their mentor/student relationship too much to ship them romantically, and Kal/Syl I guess but she's more like an adorable sidekick and really close platonic friend).

 

And then WoR happened and I found myself really surprised at how much I enjoyed Shallan and Kaladin's interactions. I thought for sure he'd be too grumpy and stoic and she too snarky for them to get along. But it turns out that Kal's pretty snarky himself when he's not being constantly beaten down. That scene where Shallan pretends to be a horneater princess and makes him give her his boots had me in stitches, and the follow-up when she tries to get in to see Dalinar was even better. But while snark battles are great and all, it was the chasm scene that really did it. Well, specifically, these lines from the chasm scene:

 

 

 

That's...a really powerful couple of lines. Especially considering where Kaladin is right now, emotionally. He's consumed by his past failures, obsessively so. And then he finds someone who is just as broken as he is, maybe more, who has found the will to live despite all of that. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Shallan gives Kaladin hope, and that during the time they spent together he's grown to admire her very much, despite her being a lighteyes. That's a rather profound moment of character development for Kaladin, and Shallan was the catalyst.

 

Shallan is more guarded about her feelings, but there's that passage where she zones out and thinks about Kaladin while talking to Adolin:

 

 

 

Interesting how she says she can't define what's brilliant about Kaladin and then goes on to define it anyways. In italics.

 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I also loved just how much fun they seemed to have together. In Words of Radiance, even though all of the principle characters are together in one place now, they're still very isolated, Kaladin and Shallan most of all. Adolin has his family to rely upon. Ditto for Dalinar, and he has Navani as well. While Kaladin loves the men of Bridge Four, he mentions multiple times that they revere him too much for him to confide in them. Shallan has Adolin, but whenever they're together she's always very focused on making a good impression, letting him talk about himself, making sure she's appealing enough to keep him interested in her. In the end, she cares too much about making him perceive her a certain way to truly be able to rely upon him for support. While talking to Adolin is fun, it's also work. In the chasm, Shallan actually made Kaladin Grumpyguts smile. She made him laugh. She caused him to make a terrible pun. Frankly, that's pretty amazing. How many times has Kal let loose like that in the entire time that we've known him? And Kal's complete, blunt, brutal honestly in turn allowed Shallan to tell the truth, something that she's had difficulty doing even to herself.

 

I think I might've rambled a bit, but I really love these two characters. Well, I love all of the characters in this series, but I didn't think that Words of Radiance could make me love Kaladin and Shallan more than I already did.

 

Well said

[Bobobagins]

Okay I'm probley gonna get flak for this but I'm gonna say it anyway. People have mentioned babies in previous postings so here's my question am I the only one who considered the advantages of stormlight in the bedroom........

Cough cough...

Well we've seen it on the battlefield with Kaladin and the wonders of restoration and endurance I'm just saying is stormlight roshar equivalent to Viagra..... And if problems persist do you see your local radiant edgedancer? It's a legit question.

"Stormlight it'll keep you going till the next Highstorm."

Edited March 13, 2014 by arcmourn

[Nebty]

Well said

 

Heh. Thank you. I think that was the longest post I've ever done here.

 

Okay I'm probley gonna get flak for this but I'm gonna say it anyway. People have mentioned babies in previous postings so here's my question am I the only one who considered the advantages of stormlight in the bedroom........

 

Pffft. I had not, in fact, considered that. However, I have wondered what would happen if two radiants kissed while one of them was holding stormlight. After all, Shallan was able to take in stormlight from a sphere and then use that stormlight to infuse the lamps to power up the oathgate. Only those with the power of Progression can infuse regular people with stormlight, but can radiants give their stormlight to other radiants? After all, a Highstorm infuses a radiant like it infuses a sphere. Of course, you probably wouldn't have to kiss the person to try this out (you don't have to kiss a sphere to infuse it after all) but it'd be more fun that way.

[Bobobagins]

Heh. Thank you. I think that was the longest post I've ever done here.

 

 

Pffft. I had not, in fact, considered that. However, I have wondered what would happen if two radiants kissed while one of them was holding stormlight. After all, Shallan was able to take in stormlight from a sphere and then use that stormlight to infuse the lamps to power up the oathgate. Only those with the power of Progression can infuse regular people with stormlight, but can radiants give their stormlight to other radiants? After all, a Highstorm infuses a radiant like it infuses a sphere. Of course, you probably wouldn't have to kiss the person to try this out (you don't have to kiss a sphere to infuse it after all) but it'd be more fun that way.

You know there is something to that like for example Lifts ability to turn food into stormlight would be useful for cross country travel example would be Kaladin flying while she eats and charges the spheres when ever they take a pitstop basically what I'm saying is that Lift is a petrol station..... Cough

[Carlos Stormblessed]

Voted for Kaladin, both because I like them together best and because I think it's very likely to happen.

 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I also loved just how much fun they seemed to have together. In Words of Radiance, even though all of the principle characters are together in one place now, they're still very isolated, Kaladin and Shallan most of all. Adolin has his family to rely upon. Ditto for Dalinar, and he has Navani as well. While Kaladin loves the men of Bridge Four, he mentions multiple times that they revere him too much for him to confide in them. Shallan has Adolin, but whenever they're together she's always very focused on making a good impression, letting him talk about himself, making sure she's appealing enough to keep him interested in her. In the end, she cares too much about making him perceive her a certain way to truly be able to rely upon him for support. While talking to Adolin is fun, it's also work. In the chasm, Shallan actually made Kaladin Grumpyguts smile. She made him laugh. She caused him to make a terrible pun. Frankly, that's pretty amazing. How many times has Kal let loose like that in the entire time that we've known him? And Kal's complete, blunt, brutal honestly in turn allowed Shallan to tell the truth, something that she's had difficulty doing even to herself.

I agree with your thoughts.

 

I think the biggest reason I hope for Shalladin is it makes you take a step back and realize that although "the end of the world" is possibly happening for them human emotion and relationships not only still continue, but are the reason for the fight in the first place. The whole reason Kaladin is a Windrunner is because he has something to protect. Protect the beauty and power of those you love is why everyone fights. Friends, family, countrymen, and lovers. Without these powerful and exciting emotions you miss out on so much.

 

Haha, my hidden wish will always be Syl and Kaladin though. Sort of like in Hook (Peter Pan) with Tinkerbells love for Peter. The similarities are to strong to ignore. I know it won't happen, but my favorite line in WOK and WOR has been: "I CLAIM HIM!" screamed at the stormfather. It made me cry, haha.....

[Nebty]

I think the biggest reason I hope for Shalladin is it makes you take a step back and realize that although "the end of the world" is possibly happening for them human emotion and relationships not only still continue, but are the reason for the fight in the first place. The whole reason Kaladin is a Windrunner is because he has something to protect. Protect the beauty and power of those you love is why everyone fights. Friends, family, countrymen, and lovers. Without these powerful and exciting emotions you miss out on so much.

 

Yes, exactly. One of Brandon Sanderson's strengths is that he does emotion very well, both in terms of characterization and evoking emotion in the reader. He makes you care about these characters, which therefore makes the stakes that much higher. The Stormlight Archive is a pretty depressing series on the surface of it, with themes like the inevitability of death and the futility of struggling against an enemy that is more likely than not going to kill you and everyone you've ever known. However, most of the books are taken up with the personal struggles of this collection of characters. If it was all depressing stuff all the time, then the reader would just stop caring, but beauty is in the details, like when Kaladin smiles during the weeping because he remembers that he's wearing the boots that Shallan conned off of him. Sure there's big, scary, world-changing stuff happening, but it says something when the most poignant part of the book is two characters who thought they were utterly alone discovering that there's another person who truly understands them. "Journey before destination," right?

 

 

Haha, my hidden wish will always be Syl and Kaladin though. Sort of like in Hook (Peter Pan) with Tinkerbells love for Peter. The similarities are to strong to ignore. I know it won't happen, but my favorite line in WOK and WOR has been: "I CLAIM HIM!" screamed at the stormfather. It made me cry, haha.....

 

Heh. I see Syl and Kaladin as having a very special relationship. They do love each other, I think. Not in a romantic way perhaps, but there are so many different kinds of love. I really enjoy reading their interactions, and appreciate that Syl is always there for Kaladin to rely on. I hope Shallan can form a similar sort of bond with Pattern eventually. Right now, though, she still seems to hate both Pattern and herself for what happened to her mother. Poor Shallan. She seems to be even lonelier than Kaladin, who's got both Syl and bridge four. Even though Kaladin might mope around a lot, it's probably important to remember that Kal wears his heart on his sleeve, and that's reflected in his narration. Shallan, on the other hand, is very good at lying to both other people and herself. She takes on roles to keep others at a distance and distracts herself as much as possible in order to deny what she's really feeling. So even though she might be upbeat and sociable most of the time while Kaladin is grouchy, much of that, like her humour, is a mask. There's a certain strength in that, though.

 

 

You know there is something to that like for example Lifts ability to turn food into stormlight would be useful for cross country travel example would be Kaladin flying while she eats and charges the spheres when ever they take a pitstop basically what I'm saying is that Lift is a petrol station..... Cough

 

Haha! I hadn't even thought of that, but yeah, that could be really convenient. If you had enough food on hand then Lift is basically an infinite stormlight-producer. Another option is having squires (like the bridgemen, can absorb stormlight but don't have a spren) running onto the battlefield and refueling their knights with stormlight.

[Ardar]

I do not know if this is good or bad for the Shallan/Kaladin ship, but Shallan seems to be similar to all of Kaladin's family in a small way. It has been said before on this thread that she is similar to his mother because they both enjoy wordplay and wit, but I do not know if the similarities have been pointed out for his father or for Tien.

 

For his father, Kaldadin thinks that what she said was what his father always told him:

 

She rolled her eyes exaggeratedly. "You are really intent on beating yourself up, aren't you?"

His father had always said the same thing time and time again. It was who Kaladin was. Did they expect him to change?

 (That was in the Chasm scene after he has gotten them lost. P.849)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

She is similar to Tien because she also can make Kaladin feel better when he is feeling depressed

 

He should feel like a fool. He'd done it again-He'd been telling her how easy her life was, while she'd had that hiding inside her all along. This time though, he didn't feel like an idiot. He felt like he understood. Something. He didn't know what. The chasm just seemed a little brighter.

Tien always did that to me... he thought. Even on the darkest day.

(also in the chasm scene, just after she smiled. P.850)

 

She also cheered him up in the weeping when he is wearing the boots which she stole and returned

 

 

EDIT: sorry, I accidentally submitted this too early

Edited March 13, 2014 by Ardar

[FeatherWriter]

Hilariously enough, I was going to suggest that. However, I don't think Renarin is gay, mainly because there's just so little to go off of on him. He's never seen really interacting with any woman except Shallan, and that was maybe five pages at most. Women describe him as "weird and creepy" but one doesn't have to be homosexual for that. I know plenty of guys who are creepy and completely straight.

The same gender spren thing reminded me of the daemons from His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman. In an interview, a person asked him if a person with a daemon the same gender as them was an indication of homosexuality, and he said "Oh, sure. Let's go with that."

EDIT: Feather, I'm calling upon your Renarin Quote summoning skills. Is there anything in the books that mentions him in a relationship at all? I don't think there's anything besides the things I mentioned.

Consider me summoned. You're right, there is very little relationship talk in regards to Renarin. We are not made aware of any significant others of any gender with him nor any kind of preference either way. Adolin talks about the girls he talks to thinking Renarin is creepy (and we get that devastating Shallan quote about him being creepy and useless in WoR) though I think the default here is that Adolin talks to mostly girls, not just that girls are being singled out in reaction to Renarin.

This puts us in an interesting position actually. (And this is something I've had to re-train myself into thinking about. My friends are very good about helping me see things differently, so I want to help you guys be able to see this as well.) I find it interesting that you don't think he could be gay because we don't have much to go on for him. So... if there's not evidence, what makes you think he's straight? You'd say "he's not gay because we haven't seen him express interest in male-identifying people." Couldn't someone else come back and say "Well, he's not straight because we haven't seen him express interest in female-identifying people either"?

It's a new mindset, that "straight" isn't the default state of mind. Renarin's sexual and romantic preferences are not het until proven otherwise, they are unknown. And there's a difference in that. Like I said, this is very possibly a new idea for most people and it may even be an uncomfortable idea. But it's something to keep in mind.

[darkanimereal1]

It's a new mindset, that "straight" isn't the default state of mind. Renarin's sexual and romantic preferences are not het until proven otherwise, they are unknown. And there's a difference in that. Like I said, this is very possibly a new idea for most people and it may even be an uncomfortable idea. But it's something to keep in mind.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. Fantastically well said. 

[Seloun]

It's a new mindset, that "straight" isn't the default state of mind. Renarin's sexual and romantic preferences are not het until proven otherwise, they are unknown. And there's a difference in that. Like I said, this is very possibly a new idea for most people and it may even be an uncomfortable idea. But it's something to keep in mind.

 

While we don't have any evidence specifically about Renarin's preferences, we do have evidence of the common preferences of humans on Roshar. Barring any evidence about the specific instance, it's not unreasonable to make an interpolation if a choice has to be made for the sake of argument.

 

If I had to bet on his orientation right now, I would bet that he's heterosexual. This is because I have no other information specifically about Renarin, but I do have information about humans in general on Roshar (that we've seen, anyway). What the lack of evidence means is that 1) I'd consider a new position with relatively little or less conclusive new data compared to better supported hypotheses, and 2) I wouldn't use this conclusion as strong evidence for other conclusions. It doesn't mean I can't come to a conclusion if necessary to do so.

 

The most likely option is always the most likely option; what the level of evidence indicates is how much MORE evidence is necessary to change what option is more likely. In this case, it's very little: one passage would probably be sufficient. But it's fallacious to argue no conclusion can be drawn.