Long Game 33: Life

[Burnt Spaghetti]

11 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

So, can i still vote on Orlok? Orlok Orlok?

@Burnt SpaghettiWho is already 'cleared'?

Me! Steph repeatedly omen Recognitioned and fae lored me, heh.

Otherwise i guess the rest of the people is just a reasoningly based thinky thing. Like arinian is a ghost apparently. Havent heard from him in long time. Pk has been the voice of those who have elims to reveal so he's prob all good.

[TheMightyLopen]

The Turn, and the game, is over! The Aftermath will be posted tomorrow, so keep a look out!

[Sparkrunner]

Tomorrow? Exactly 7 minutes 12 seconds ago was tomorrow.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Elbereth was waylaid last night whilst travelling, and was unable to do the final writeup. She will aim to complete it tonight, and apologises for the delay. She hopes that everyone understands, and that they'll forgive her for the delay.

[Sparkrunner]

No apology, boots!

[Paranoid King]

Did you not have any boots on hand? Because if so, you really don't need to take the time to buy new ones.

Although if you're headed that way anyways, I want a pair too.

[Elbereth]

LG33: Aftermath - Death

(This was supposed to be put in a few turns ago but since I hadn’t done it until now, it might as well go here.)

The Crockery stood bleak and cold on a sunny day in autumn, seeming to drain light from its surroundings. A solitary figure stole up to the building and knocked, making ripples of sound pass through the air, hollow and unheeded. 

“Yes?” the warden’s voice drawled. 

“Something for El’the Alveron, sir,” the voice replied softly. “Letter from his parents or something, not that he’ll be able to read it!” he snorted, and the warden laughed with him.

“Come on, bring it in then,” the Warden said. “Mind your step, this way...”

The Skindancer smiled, wearing a pretty little boy’s face, stolen off of the streets for the moment. Not like anyone would notice, or care. 

It followed the Warden down stone hallways, looking curiously around. It heard voices, coming through the walls all aroudn it. He even knew a few. Notable among them was Stryker Nox, whose voice was only recognisable through its unique timbre. Its words and tone were... “please, sir, help? I’m lost, I don’t know where I am. Can you help me? I’m lost...” 

It shook its head, moving onwards. Stryker might be recoverable someday, but unlike Locke, his insanity was fullblown and unusable to them, for the moment. Locke was the focus here. 

The Warden stopped and chose a ring without even loking at his ring of seemingly identical keys. He inserted it with a loud, metallic click into the door, and opened it cautiously. 

“Ah, come to rescue me from this poor excuse for a prison cell?” a voice drawled in a perfect, haughty nobleman’s tone. The Skindancer smirked. Locke had never liked his Cealdish body, and his mind had gotten a little confused in the transfer, so he simply remained very, very Vintish. 

“Letter from your parents, sir,” it said, hoping Locke would recognise him. 

Locke went still, then turned to meet its eyes. He nodded, once. 

Then he slapped his hand on the table. “Well? Bring it here, boy. I won’t get up on the whim of a servant boy!”

It put the letter on the table, hesitating for a moment. The letter wasn’t important, of course. Locke had... a gift, perhaps, if one could call it that. His creation of insanity was focused, shaped. If played precisely the right way, he could shape others to his ends for a time, before anyone noticed they were insane. The price, unfortunately, was a bit of his own sanity. 

All Locke needed was for the Warden to enter the cell, pulling the Skindancer away from Locke. “Don’t go getting too- uuungh,” he said, eyes rolling up in his head. 

Locke glanced imperiously at the Skindancer, who backed away quickly, and then crouched over the Warden. “I am Vintish,” he said, words dropping unnaturally heavily from his mouth. “I am not insane, and deserve to be freed. I have far more power than you, and it would benefit you to release me.”

He smirked and spoke normally to the other Skindancer. “See you in a couple days. Show yourself out, would you?”

It grinned back and ducked out the door, soon skipping down the steps of the Crockery and into the world again, with nary a soul the wiser. 

---

After that, things started going downhill. Locke emerged, of course, victorious. But he found the University still, and quiet. Only a few students even attending anymore, so many were insane, dead, or expelled. In fact, he soon came to realise that he was the only non-Master at the school left. 

That wasn’t useful at all. He needed other students, people who would follow him, who weren’t ostracised or insane. And those were difficult to find. Naturally, they could still try to simply make everyone else go insane, but that was boring, and Locke preferred dramatic plans. Besides, the still-alive students were getting warier, staying in their homes and buying irritating amounts of protection. 

Finally, the last straw came. Cluny had been doing his best to keep Locke sane and on track, and reining in his megalomania. When Cluny, too, died...

Well. Things got interesting. 

Locke was still an El’the, after all. And a Sympathist, too. Doors began to be stuck shut and unopenable but by carving holes through them. There were holes in the floor leading down to nothingness, fires bursting out of nowhere, water pouring from a solid ceiling in the middle of a meeting of the Masters. 

No one seemed to care, though. Or not enough. They were all in Imre, partying and not paying a whit of attention to the University. Well, except Chalks, who had wandered out when the Warden went completely insane and unlocked every prime-numbered door. (Fortunately, most of them were empty.)

So Locke decided to be dramatic. 

---

On a cloudless night, one of the last warm days of fall, a barge sailed slowly down the river and moored just near the bridge in Imre. Every riverside tavern was full to bursting with expelled students and townsfolk celebrating the recent lack of deaths (mostly because they wanted an excuse to celebrate, in all honesty), but the river itself was dark and still. 

A glimmering was seen in the night. Or would have been, if anyone had been paying enough attention to notice. 

But no. No one noticed until the first boom split the air, and a stream of sparks soared high into the sky, heralding the golden outline of... a letter. L. 

Those who weren’t too drunk to do so rushed outside at the urging of their friends, staring up at the lines hanging in the sky. 

There was another boom, and another letter rose up in a stream of golden sparks. O. 

R. 

They stared up at the letters slowly joining the first L (which wasn’t even fading yet). 

LORD LOCKE ALVERON

Then the letters exploded and blinded everyone looking at them on the riverfront, just for entertainment. 

---

There was, in fact, one sober person in the entire riverfront, who was shaking her head at the antics of the fireworks. “I think this has gone on rather enough,” she commented to the assassin sitting next to her, eating ice cream. 

“I’d rather agree,” he said, smiling. At first he’d been such a closedmouth boring person, but Dele had eventually gotten him to open up like she eventually did for anyone she came into contact with. 

“Be a dear and go deal with him, mister?” she asked. “Usual payment, plus smoothies afterwards!”

The assassin laughed, looking down at the petite little heiress. At first, putting up with her antics had only been a necessary burden, but he was growing to enjoy them. “Smoothies it is,” he agreed, hoisting himself to his feet. “Mind giving me a lift?”

She giggled and waved her fingers at him, speaking Wind through a mouthful of ice cream. 

He grinned, feeling the wind whisking him ofrom the ground. He absolutely loved this feeling of flying. 

When he touched down on the stones of the University, Locke was only just returning from his little expedition. He’d cleaned up - couldn’t bear to have the stench of soot and grime on him. It would not do for a nobleman to appear less than perfect. 

He’d decided, in any case, that that would be his grand finale for here. Once he left, the University would be entirely ruined, without a single student, and while it would recuperate, that would take months or years. 

And Locke had a different plan. Something far more important. He’d packed his bas last night, and soon enough he woul dbe off to Vint, to take power there and extend the power of the Vintish Empire throughout the whole of the known world!

Unfortunately, he didn’t quite get that far. While he’d been preoccupied with imagining the glory of the soon-to-be-Empire, the assassin came up behind him and jabbed an iron dagger into his neck. 

The assassin stood back, watching with satisfaction as Locke dissolved into a pile of screaming ashes. “I do hope that’s the last of them,” he muttered. 

Louder, knowing Dele’s Wind was still nearby, he said, “Dele, dear? Those smoothies sound absolutely wonderful.” 

HE heard a giggle, and was whisked off his feet again. 

THUS ENDS THE SECOND INSTALLMENT OF HOLLY AND IRON

Come back next year, for the third iteration! 

---

The Students have won! The Skindancers have lost! 
Orlok was killed! He was a Skindancer who had studied in Sympathy!
Burnt was attacked by Skindancers, but didn’t die!

Final Player List
1. Queensteph - Vintish Noblewoman Student Master of Archives
2. Randuir (Telar Pike) - Yllish Commoner Student 
3. Hemalurgic Headshot (Noremac Quwester) - Aturan Nobleman Skindancer Master Physicker 
4. Aonar (Aodhan Breacadh) - Edema Ruh Skindancer in Naming
5. Wilson (Sloan Walker) -  Cealdish Commoner Student
6. Straw (Medicus Novis) - Yllish Commoner Student
7. Paranoid King (William Opuscule) - Yllish Commoner Student in Physicking
8. Ornstein (John Springer) - Aturan Nobleman Student in Physicking
9. Jondesu (Vell) - Yllish Commoner Insane Student in Archives and Sympathy
10. Drake Marshall (Greyson) - Cealdish Commoner Student in Physicking
11. Assassin in Burgundy (Jurdaan Longfell) -  Yllish Commoner Student
12. Burnt Spaghetti (Dele Fajro) - Vintish Noblewoman Student in Naming
13. Orlok (Locke Alveron) - Cealdish Commoner Skindancer in Sympathy
14. Magestar (Magestar) - Vintish Nobleman Insane Student
15. Alvron (Stryker Nox) - Cealdish Commoner Insane Skindancer in Alchemy and Artificery
16. Arinian (Darian) - Aturan Nobleman
17. Stick (Stick) - Aturan NobleStick Student in Archives and Physicking
18. Darkness Ascendant (Balthazar Myrrh) - Yllish Commoner Student
19. Cluny the Scourge (Cluny) - Aturan Nobleman Skindancer Master in Arithmetic
20. Silverblade (Ryth) - Cealdish Commoner Student
21. Amanuensis (Esuan) - Yllish Commoner Student
22. BrightnessRadiant (Amelia) - Aturan Noblewoman Student in Rhetoric & Logic and Archives
23. Eolhondras (Eolah) - Yllish Commoner Student
24. STINK - Yllish Commoner Skindancer in Linguistics
25. Hael (Glavion) - Edema Ruh Insane Student 
26. Sart (Titud) - Edema Ruh Insane Student in Rhetoric & Logic
27. Joe (Chalks) - Yllish Commoner Insane Student in Rhetoric & Logic and Linguistics

Docs
Master Spreadsheet
Spec/Dead Doc
Skindancer Doc

Game Thoughts (more may come later but some explanations are needed now)

GM Mistakes

There were a lot of these, unfortunately. It’s a big game, and such things are bound to happen. Some of them were minor (like Drake PMing someone while he was expelled) and didn’t affect the game. I won’t mention most of those because there were plenty and I don’t think I could even remember them all. The major ones were as follows (in no particular order): 

1. University actions allowed in Imre. By the time we realised that this wasn’t supposed to happen, it already had for about a cycle, unfortunately. This would’ve changed the game significantly - Burnt, for instance, could’ve either used Wind or amassed the protection she had. Not both, or not in such a short time. It might have also reduced the traffic in the Grey Man and overall allowed the Skindancers to have more of an advantage over the village in the late game. 

2. Wind could spy on the Skindancer doc. This was a bad call, and I didn’t like it from the start. Let me clarify, quickly: Burnt asked to spy on anything Aonar said “not in public”. Which she didn’t actually intend to include the doc, but I read it as worded that way because she did want that. I vacillated a long time on whether that should be allowed at all, but finally allowed this: Each message of Aonar’s sent in the eliminator doc (there were about 15 of Aonar’s that turn, only 3 of which were truly incriminating) had a 5% chance of being overheard. Normal PMs had a 50 or 75% chance (can’t remember which, but it doesn’t matter enough to look it up). Burnt happened to roll one of those, and thus caught out Aonar. 

What Aonar pointed out later was that Burnt should’ve had to use Holly or Iron in order to spy on that doc, because the Skindancers would’ve been protecting themselves with Fae magic. This would’ve been a much better ruling had I thought of it, but I didn’t. 

Secondary note: Burnt only used that power once again (on a villager), and after that stopped doing so because she was uncomfortable with having that power. For which I thank her, and I agree. The reason I was so uncomfortable with this ruling is that it compromises the security of hte eliminator doc. This is a terrible idea, generally. One of the most important advantages the eliminators has over the village is perfect, non-public communication in which you can (usually) trust every member. Compromising that makes it much more difficult for the eliminators to do anything because they can’t communicate nearly as effectively. Thus, compromising the doc is a Bad Idea. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it turn out well, particularly when the evil team isn’t informed that they could be compromised (LG26 and Rae comes to mind, for instance). 

3. Steph shouldn’t have been raised yet. This one is... complicated. Essentially, the first time Steph could’ve been raised to Master (assuming that there’s the same turn delay as with other elevations, which isn’t necessarily supposed to be the case) was when she was at the Grey Man in Imre, and thus not attending the University. Now, the rules state that if you’re not attending the University you cannot be a Master. You’re replaced with an NPC until you come back (or the next PC if there’s one available, and then you’re second in line). So, probably, Steph shouldn’t have been raised for another turn. If that had been the case, I’m nearly certain she would have been expelled by the Skindancers, who would’ve been (nearly) safe at that point. She wasn’t, because I (probably) mistakenly said that she should be raised anyway, thinking about how any other elevation can be raised while in Imre. This resulted in a few hours’ delay later on while I tried to figure out how to set it the most right. (I ended up just making her pay tuition, rather than deelevating her, basically because the call had already been made and while it was rather detrimental to the Skindancers as is, the call was done and I could’ve change it. Just like I couldn’t have changed the spy-on-Skindancers call after I’d made it. GMing is irritating like that.) 

Other Problems with the Game/Changes for Next Game

First of all, yes, there will be another run of this. Come back in a year or so and play! Wilson and I have already discussed it extensively and started making the spreadsheet (which will be so much better than the current one is). 

Right. Problems we noticed with the game, some of which have fixes and some of which do not yet. 

Social Classes
Vints have a lot of power. Seriously. A lot. And the 33% increase to tuition does nothing, particularly if they don’t even go to the University and just stay in Imre, spending substantially less than they would on tuition, and able to buy a great deal. So we’re introducing a 25% chance of being roleblocked each turn, unable to go to Imre and only having the general action period available. Hopefully that is enough. 

Similarly, Edema and Cealdish are very poor and it’s rather difficult for them to do anything. Particularly if Edema Talent Pipes stats are particularly low, which some were. That doesn’t exactly make sense flavourwise, so we’re adopting Hael’s suggestion of a base stat for them. They won’t be guaranteed to get the Pipes, but they’ll all at least have a decent chance. 
Cealdish have their discounts increased to 20%, as well, and I believe the Aturan detriment to arcane fields has been increased. 
If anyone has any suggestions on further improvements, those would be welcome! Cealdish, for instance, still only makes a difference in Imre, and otherwise has no effect. I’m not certain whether that’s enough for them or not. There’s also a question of how harsh those penalties should be just because of the question of how equal the game should be. Should every player be on equal terms, or is it okay to have some more powerful than others? Vints still are without doubt more able to do things than Edema Ruh, without worrying about money or having to deal with tuition reductions. Et cetera. 

University Fields
So, the three arcane fields that aren’t Naming are all getting a boost. One person went into Sympathy. Orlok. Because there was an exploit (also getting fixed - you can now not take a loan out from Devi if you’ve defaulted already on one. He was going to become Master, give someone else Malignant Sympathy protection, and have one of them take out huge amounts of money and never pay it back because they didn’t need to worry about mommets.), rather than because he wanted it as a whole. So, this field needs a bit of extra attraction. A couple possibilities have been raised - the one I’m currently leaning towards is that mommets can target players, rather than only people who were killed. To use an Upgraded Mommet like that, though, significantly increases your insanity bonus (as you’d expect of something which can kill). Someone else raised another possibility, though, which I can’t quite remember right now... @GMs from last game? Nearly certain it was one of you three.

Alchemy and Artificery were similarly underpopulated. These are difficult fields because not only do they increase your insanity, but also you can only practice them while attending the university and they don’t grant any additional action periods. Next time around, you’ll have a shared item-creation period, so that regardless of the general action you can always (while attending) be making more items. 

Arithmetics might also be changed, though we’re not certain how yet. It’s nearly entirely passive actions, which is boring for the Arithmetician. 

Naming is an interesting one. So... we ruled, this game, that you couldn’t learn new Names once expelled, on the basis that every other field can’t learn new abilities, so Naming shouldn’t be able to either. Which makes sense. 
The counter to this, however, is that it means that Namers can safely use all of their names without being afraid of more insanity. If Burnt had been able to learn new names, she would definitely have one by now. She used Bone four times, meaning a 100% chance of learning a new name, and so would have had at least a 1/12 chance of going insane for up to twelve turns. Maybe more, had she used the new Name and received more Names. If she had gone insane, the game would’ve been essentially won for the Skindancers. She is the only reason they lost. So that did have a material impact on the game. 
What it means in general is that Namers, once expelled, can use any of their names with impunity and not have any risk of going insane. I’m... not sure that’s any more balanced than letting them learn new Names. 
Thoughts on this would be appreciated. I’m not sure which way is actually better for the game. 

Also, not a problem, but I’m really sad no one got Plum Bobs or Bonetar. That would’ve been such fun. 

Imre

Black Market

First of all, two people placed contracts in the entire game. Two. And neither were taken. 
I am sad.

Besides that, though, the Bodyguard/Assassin prices need significant tweaking. Or rather, the formula does. Because they remained too low for too long - had the prices been the same as last game, they’ve have been about 10 Talents higher. (They weren’t because base stock is based on number of players, and we had more this game.) So that was something of an issue with way too many Bodyguards and Assassins in the game. 
Oh, also. Bodyguards and Assassins will also probably have an upkeep fee. This’ll mostly come into play with Bodyguards, where you’ll have a (probably small) fee to pay each turn to keep them around. 

Apothecary

There was a ridiculous amount of protection in this game. The Horse and Four’s increase to 40% protection, the lower price of Bodyguards, and Grams, primarily. So Grams are getting increased to 20 talents. Other than that, this is fine. 

Eolian
The Eolian isn’t getting changed, but I’ll use this space as an excuse to point out that Lopen has horrible dice and the first four rolls for the Eolian were all failures. Including two who had a ridiculously high chance of success (12 or 13 out of 15, I think). Poor Wilson and Eol. 

Devi’s
Was not used at all. Well... I think it was used once. Only change is that you can’t take a loan out if you’ve defaulted on a previous one. 

Gambling Den
This is a new thing! To flesh out Imre, there will be a Gambling Den. (Credit goes to Alv for the idea.) Won’t fill out the details here, but it should be fun. 

Other
That’s about it for problems with the game. The most major, I’d say, is that there was too much protection in the game. That made it very difficult for the elims late game - everyone had grams or bodyguards, practically. Burnt had two Grams. If she hadn’t been expelled, she’d have taken five turns to actually go insane. As is, it’d take three. Assuming she didn’t buy another bodyguard or gram before then. 

If anyone saw any other problems with the game or has any other suggestions, please mention them. Most of these were suggested by Wilson or Orlok, as they saw firsthand that these things were problems. More suggestions are always appreciated. 

Callouts

Steph, for being the only Student to achieve Mastery. 
Randuir, for making ⅓ of the posts in the game when he was alive. (Seriously, you can see it recorded in the spreadsheet. It’s ridiculous.)
Hemalurgic_Headshot, for being voted on a ridiculously long time after he became Master and uncomplainable. 
Aonar, for amazing RP and terrifying Naming suggestions that I’m sad I didn’t get to see. 
Wilson, for doing her own thing and ignoring the University despite her class. Also for being my surrogate mod and extremely helpful, after her death. And for creating this game in the first place! 
Straw, for original (if not terribly helpful) posts of graphs and pie charts. 
Paranoid King, for doing your best not to be a mayor. 
Ornstein, for... making no sense?
Jondesu, for playing even while travelling/hospitalised, and doing pretty well until he went insane. 
Drake, for being the most involved in keeping to the spirit of the books. 
Assassin, for saying nothing and then dying. 
Burnt, for being the only person to stop the Skindancers from winning, and also for all of the ice cream dates with assassins. 
Orlok, for doing the absolute best he could with very limited materials late-game.
Magestar, for a rather excellent character for me to play with. 
Alvron, for wanting his character to have the mind of an innocent child once he went insane.
Arinian, for buying the only Bloodless in the entire game. 
Stick, for having an awesome death (and coming really, really close to surviving, too). 
DA, for an awesome character until he had to drop out. :/ 
Cluny, for somehow surviving almost the entire game despite heaps of suspicion the entire time. 
Silverblade, for being sabotaged first turn, escaping, and then doing nothing. 
Amanuensis, for being on the streets for the entire game (excepting Term 1), and somehow surviving every single time until killed by an Assassin. I dub thee Queen of the Mercenaries. 
Brightness Radiant, for learning a lot this game and learning that tunnelling is a bad idea. 
Eolhondras, for a fantastic music submission and hten not getting it anyway. Also for blocking an attack and knowing that Alv did that, and then neither you nor PK ever saying anything about it. >>
Stink, for successfully and correctly calling out Cluny for being unsportsmanlike before I even knew there was a problem. Thank you. 
Hael, for being a good sport about being Edema Ruh and rightly calling out Jondesu for not realising that. 
Sart, for (along with Joe), going into Rhetoric and Logic. I was sad when you went insane, because R&L was mine last game and I wanted to see someone use the Law of Contraposition.
Joe, for excellent order submissions even when insane. There’s a lot of chalk drawings inside the Crockery now.

And to my co-GMs! 
Drought, for having slightly better dice than Lopen, adn staying up later than you should in order to help out. 

And finally, Lopen, who deserves more credit for running this game than I do. I made the spreadsheet and did writeups, but he’s the one who actually input and output all the PMs, dealt with Imre, and so on. He very likely did more work than myself and Drought combined, and I could not have run this game travelling like I am without him. Enormous thanks to Lopen for being a fantastic co-GM. 

Things I Learned
Mods are nice. I’m getting a lot better about making calls, but I’ve now GMed or co-GMed 10 games (officially; counting what I did for LG32 and to a lesser extent LG18 and LG20-21, you could reasonably say 11) and I still used Wilson extensively once she died. Part of that was because she created this game, but part is also just because outside, unbiased advice is really, really helpful. Use your mods, everyone! That’s what they’re there for! 

Writeups were fun this game. I strayed away from the Life theme, which is rather sad. I should’ve used it for a QF, perhaps, with significantly fewer writeups than the ~20 required this game. Pity, that. I did like the tone of this game’s writeups, though, and the mix of seriousness and silliness. Sometime I’ll bring Varda back and flesh out her character a little more, because I was unsatisfied with it, but otherwise this game was good. 
I wasn’t terribly good at actually getting the writeups done on time, though. Which is okay, I know, but I dislike it immensely. There were reasons - mainly school and then travelling - but that doesn’t mean I don’t have a responsibility to get them done. So I apologise about that. 

Lastly, don’t GM games while travelling! Playing them is fine (for me, at least). I’ve done it plenty before. But the only other time I was travelling was for QF18, which was much less complicated and the writeups for the second half of that game never got finished. GMing while travelling is very, very difficult. Having to do a writeup late at night after seeing 2-3 attractions in a day is not something that I wanted to do, and often I just fell asleep instead. (As with this aftermath, for instance. I lay down to start writing, fell asleep instead, and woke three hours later enough to tell Lopen/Drought to say that the game is over, and I’d post the aftermath when I finished it.) I do not recommend it. At all. 

Well. I had a ton of fun this game, and I hope all of you did. There a lot of rough spots and mistakes in the game, but the ultimate aim is to have fun, and that much I hope was achieved. 

See you all next time!

Edited June 10, 2017 by Elbereth

[Silverblade5]

So... this game made me realize something. I suck at SE. I have trouble analyzing, and almost always follow the crowd. I'm always one of the first players to go inactive. I've essentially been a spectator with a role. As such, I am officially retiring. If I continue, it'll only be in the spec doc. I'm sorry for constantly doing nothing and being nothing but a burden on my faction. Maybe one day I'll return to playing, but I don't really see it.

[Paranoid King]

I went into the crockery fairly early on. I figured it would take me a while to escape, so I made a doc for myself to keep myself active.

And then I escaped first round.

So there's not much in it, but here's my ramblings.

42 minutes ago, Silverblade5 said:

So... this game made me realize something. I suck at SE. I have trouble analyzing, and almost always follow the crowd. I'm always one of the first players to go inactive. I've essentially been a spectator with a role. As such, I am officially retiring. If I continue, it'll only be in the spec doc. I'm sorry for constantly doing nothing and being nothing but a burden on my faction. Maybe one day I'll return to playing, but I don't really see it.

Aww. We'll miss you regardless. Hopefully you'll come back eventually.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Paranoid King
shortened link

[Hemalurgic Headshot]

Hey, this was the first game I was evil, and I loved it. There's something satisfying about plotting to destroy your peers... well, I'll be taking a break from SE for a while, unless I can get my brother to join a game (if you didn't see @Grumpy Dula). Thank you all for a great game, very well done El, *applause*.

[Magestar]

So, in case I ever happen to play another version of this game, my character is technically still alive, right?  Just insane?  

I did enjoy this game, despite going insane and sitting in the crockery while a number of other people escaped.  The mechanics were fun and the write-ups were enjoyable - I wish I had had more time to explore the things I could do. 

Also, although I haven't finished reading through all of it, the Elim doc looks like a lot of fun.  Nice lineup and stuff.  Heh.  Also, it's got some of my favorite quotes about me yet, so... yeah, there's that.  

Stink - 

"I like keeping Mage active in thread though, he’s chaotic and all messy and over the place."

Thanks...?  Sort of?

I'd actually like to hear more on what you have to say about this - to some extent I do like being kinda chaotic, but I'd like to know what you're talking about more specifically, if you don't mind terribly.

And, oh look, Stink again. -  

"Mage's Sanity is the opposite of a power."

Heh.  Hehehe.  Hehehehehehe.

If nothing else, that made me laugh.  A lot.

I'd say something about my reads, but tbh, I don't remember enough of them to say whether or not any were accurate.

Thanks for running the game, GM's!  Hope it gets run again while I'm still young.  

edit:  And Alv; not sure exactly what you'll be able to do with my sanity.  STINK might have been right about that one.  

Edited June 10, 2017 by Magestar

[Arinian]

Huh... I was right about Alv... again! 

Also I'm killed Aman and then (when forgot to send lodging) immediately was attacked by mercenaries(Not sure about that but I think it was so). 

[Straw]

Well, that was a fun game! I was a bit disappointed that I got explelled before I could get any abilities, but, that's life for you! Anyway, thanks to the GMs for running such an amazing game and thanks to my fellow players for playing it!

[BrightnessRadiant]

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Brightness Radiant, for learning a lot this game and learning that tunnelling is a bad idea. 

This is 100% accurate! This was only my second game when it started  I learned so much! Thanks for a great game @Elbereth @TheMightyLopen @DroughtBringer !!!

[little wilson]

59 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

If anyone has any suggestions on further improvements, those would be welcome! 

Vints
Having thought more about this, I think a full role-block would be better. So if the Vint is called back to Vintas, the only thing they can do is file their two allotted complaints (if they have Proficient in Hyperbole, they can't file four because they can't use PiH). Orlok suggested applying the 33% tuition increase to all purchases as well, which is a possibility.

Aturans
One thing Aonar pointed out was that, flavorwise, if the Vint Nobles can be called back to Vintas, there's no reason for that not to apply to Aturans as well. Which makes sense, though I think the Aturans would have less of a chance, like 10% as opposed to the Vints 25%.

And one suggestion Aonar made that I love for both the Nobles is a lodging limitation. Vints must stay in the most expensive lodging they can afford (after tuition). If that's the Horse and Four, they're staying in the Horse and Four. Aturans cannot stay in the Mews/at Anker's if they can afford better lodging.

I would highly suggest using that last suggestion, but I'm not sure about using both of the other suggestions. That might cripple the Vints too much. Perhaps the roleblock and lodging limitation. The lodging limitation in particular makes it harder for the Nobles to hoard wealth, and it prevents the Vints from staying in the Grey Man indefinitely and buying out Imre (namely, grams in the apothecary when those get restocked). Even if they do have so few talents that the Grey Man is the best they can afford, that's certainly not going to be the case the next term.

Caveat to the above: it only kicks in when they've placed lodging orders. Therefore, they still have the chance of ending up on the streets. So, for example, if a Vint placed an order for The Grey Man and they can afford The Horse and Four, they're going to Horse and Four instead.

Cealdish
To go along with the increased profit from 10% to 20%, perhaps a reduction in the moneylender rates. Aonar suggested a Family Connections ability for them, where they already know some of the moneylenders in Imre and therefore don't have to go to Devi's. So more reasonable rates if they do visit the moneylender (which would still be labeled as "Devi's" but flavorwise, they're not technically going to Devi. They're just getting the reduced rate).

Orlok suggested the inclusion of an additional mechanic that poorer students could excel at. One that has nothing to do with having money, but could give them an edge over the Nobles. When I mentioned this to Aonar, he thought about decreasing the streets penalties if you have less than 6 talents. You're too poor to be worth killing/robbing, so the mercs are more likely to leave you alone. Doesn't remove the merc-death entirely, but reduces it (which, with the bloodthirsty dice, doesn't really make much of a difference, because everyone except Aman will still be murdered, regardless of how much they have, but still). Perhaps a reduction from 25% to 10%. 

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There’s also a question of how harsh those penalties should be just because of the question of how equal the game should be. Should every player be on equal terms, or is it okay to have some more powerful than others?

Yes. If some of the classes aren't on equal footing compared to the others, it's much harder to balance the game between the different alignments. While certain classes are better-used doing certain things (like Aturans doing anything non-arcane, Cealdish focusing on Artificery/Alchemy to increase buying/selling wealth in Imre, etc), all the classes should be on fairly equal footing when it comes to what they can do within their class.

One of the things I wanted to ensure when making this game was that players could mostly control what they wanted to do/how they wanted to affect the game. I still hold to that. As the classes stand right now, there are serious issues with that ability for the lower-wealth classes. I couldn't do a dang thing in Imre because I was way too poor. Yet an Aturan who wants to study Naming has a halfway decent chance of succeeding. Obviously, the classes aren't going to be completely equal for every mechanic, but a person should, in theory, be able to pick a strategy before the game starts and be able to play to that strategy regardless of the class they end up as. The class might hinder them a bit, but it's still possible. That is what I'm shooting for when it comes to class balances.

 

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So, the three arcane fields that aren’t Naming are all getting a boost. One person went into Sympathy. Orlok. Because there was an exploit (also getting fixed - you can now not take a loan out from Devi if you’ve defaulted already on one. He was going to become Master, give someone else Malignant Sympathy protection, and have one of them take out huge amounts of money and never pay it back because they didn’t need to worry about mommets.), rather than because he wanted it as a whole. So, this field needs a bit of extra attraction. A couple possibilities have been raised - the one I’m currently leaning towards is that mommets can target players, rather than only people who were killed. To use an Upgraded Mommet like that, though, significantly increases your insanity bonus (as you’d expect of something which can kill). Someone else raised another possibility, though, which I can’t quite remember right now... @GMs from last game? Nearly certain it was one of you three.

Alchemy and Artificery were similarly underpopulated. These are difficult fields because not only do they increase your insanity, but also you can only practice them while attending the university and they don’t grant any additional action periods. Next time around, you’ll have a shared item-creation period, so that regardless of the general action you can always (while attending) be making more items. 

Arithmetics might also be changed, though we’re not certain how yet. It’s nearly entirely passive actions, which is boring for the Arithmetician. 

Naming is an interesting one. So... we ruled, this game, that you couldn’t learn new Names once expelled, on the basis that every other field can’t learn new abilities, so Naming shouldn’t be able to either. Which makes sense. 
The counter to this, however, is that it means that Namers can safely use all of their names without being afraid of more insanity. If Burnt had been able to learn new names, she would definitely have one by now. She used Bone four times, meaning a 100% chance of learning a new name, and so would have had at least a 1/12 chance of going insane for up to twelve turns. Maybe more, had she used the new Name and received more Names. If she had gone insane, the game would’ve been essentially won for the Skindancers. She is the only reason they lost. So that did have a material impact on the game. 
What it means in general is that Namers, once expelled, can use any of their names with impunity and not have any risk of going insane. I’m... not sure that’s any more balanced than letting them learn new Names. 
Thoughts on this would be appreciated. I’m not sure which way is actually better for the game. 

Sympathy
After talking with Aonar about this one, I'm leaning towards fixing it by adding a roleblock period. For each elevation in Sympathy, they gain an roleblock action period that they can use on anyone, but it costs IP. This would remove the E'lir/Re'lar/El'the/Master IP bonus, making it more like Naming.

Artificery/Alchemy
I think the item creation period should be accessible regardless of if they're attending the University or not, just like any other action from any other field is do-able whether or not you're attending the University. That's perhaps the biggest current limitation to these two fields and why they are underpopulated. I think changing their IP bonus to when they're making items would be good too. Give them the bonus of the item they're creating. Meaning, if they're creating a Re'lar level item, they get 2 IP. El'the-level? 3 IP. You create two items, one E'lir level and the other El'the? Whelp, that's +4. Etc.

I've heard a suggestion for a maintenance mechanic, where items expire when not held by someone who's studied in that field, and while I see the point of it, I don't really love it. At least, I don't for the Artificery items. Once those are made, flavorwise, it makes sense for anyone to be able to use them. You don't need to be an Artificer to know how to use a Thieves Lamp, Ward or Gram. Alchemy items, however, do need alchemist knowledge, so those I could see some limitations on. Perhaps not an expiration, but maybe an additional risk? For example, it doesn't make sense for a Master alchemist to make bone-tar, give it to someone else, and for that person to use it, making it go volatile, and getting away Scot-free (as per the Master-level bonetar). Flavorwise, that person should be injured at the very least. So perhaps if someone ends up with an alchemy item and they're not an alchemist, it has the E'lir level risks? Not sure...

Arithmetic
I think changing Arithmetic so it's more like Physicking would be best. Meaning that once you're elevated in Arithmetic once, you have access to all the abilities, but at the lowest level. And then as you're elevated more within Arithmetic, those abilities increase. So like the decreased tuition is only, say, 5% for the first elevation, with an additional 5% for all elevations thereafter. This makes it so the one active ability isn't as much of a problem since they only have 1 action period anyway. Plus, increasing Pickpocket at the Master level to choose who to pickpocket, regardless of that person targeting you or not, makes it even better.

Naming
I do think Namers should be able to learn new Names if they've been expelled. It's a problem, other fields can't learn new abilities if they've been expelled, but I think it makes sense, and as we saw with Burnt, it's problematic for one side or the other when that isn't an option. The Namer is free to do whatever they want, being as cautious as they want, and they never have to worry about going insane. I don't like the lack of risk there. That's another theme of this game: risk/reward. And if you've gone into Naming, you should be facing some risk using Names consistently.

I think to balance out the Namers being able to learn new Names, Artificers/Alchemists should be able to create new items after expulsion too (which makes sense flavorwise, as well). And a Scriv who knows Banned Books should be able to learn new things (since I'm sure they'd be able to find those banned books outside of the Archives). The other expelled player limitations would still apply though: only being able to target those in Imre/other expelled players. Unless Wind is involved, of course.

 

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Apothecary

There was a ridiculous amount of protection in this game. The Horse and Four’s increase to 40% protection, the lower price of Bodyguards, and Grams, primarily. So Grams are getting increased to 20 talents. Other than that, this is fine. 

Eolian
The Eolian isn’t getting changed, but I’ll use this space as an excuse to point out that Lopen has horrible dice and the first four rolls for the Eolian were all failures. Including two who had a ridiculously high chance of success (12 or 13 out of 15, I think). Poor Wilson and Eol. 

Gambling Den
This is a new thing! To flesh out Imre, there will be a Gambling Den. (Credit goes to Alv for the idea.) Won’t fill out the details here, but it should be fun. 

Apothecary
Also, increasing the time between stocking from 3 turns to possibly 5 or something like that. It will help if items are more scarce. You don't want to change it too much, but I think right now, it restocks a little too frequently.

Eolian
Is there something else we could do with the Eolian on top of the Pipes? Because I feel like there's more that can be done there, but I'm not sure what.

Gambling Den
Not gonna say much about this, but Aonar suggested making the Cealdish thing we'd talked about for the Ruh instead and then the Cealdish just have something that says that if they lose, they're able to recover some/all of their bet.

 

I think that's all of the tweaks discussed that you didn't mention. Just to get them all here in the thread for ease of access next time.

[Aonar]

I was going to post thoughts, but it looks like 90% of them have already been posted for me by El and Wilson.  So I have to do less work now. (Yay! )

I was the one who suggested the maintenance idea; I mostly liked it with the current Apothecary build; as it nerfed those items pretty heavily. If Apothecary is already getting a nerf though, it's not really necessary. I do like the idea of A/A's getting some bonus to holding/using items of their type that others don't get though.

Naming is just hella weird.  I do think learning Names after being expelled is better, since it helps balance Namers a little more, with the greater insanity risk and lower chance of being left utterly helpless after being expelled. (Although I may be biased. ) 

In terms of social classes; Players don't need to be on objectively equal terms, but they do need to be on relatively equal terms. A Vint might be better at some things than a Ruh, but a Ruh should also be better at some things than a Vint. And given that both their abilities rely on a the currency system, and Ruh are not only weaker but very chance reliant, something probably needs to change.

I do think there should be more at the Eolian.... but I have no idea what either.

(Also, sympathy addendum: I think what we discussed was the RB still being contingent on having a mommet (the new "spend action to make mommet of target" would still be in effect), rather than just a straight roleblock. If you like that better though, I might suggest having a non-mommet RB have higher IP cost than a mommet RB.) 

[Alvron]

3 hours ago, Elbereth said:

Gambling Den
This is a new thing! To flesh out Imre, there will be a Gambling Den. (Credit goes to Alv for the idea.) Won’t fill out the details here, but it should be fun. 

Alvron, for wanting his character to have the mind of an innocent child once he went insane.

Yay me.  Still think we should call it Alv's.   All good Gambling Dens need a catchy name to bring in the punters.

I'm sad no one killed me.  I was hoping to make you all feel bad for killing an innocent little child.

2 hours ago, Magestar said:

 And Alv; not sure exactly what you'll be able to do with my sanity.  STINK might have been right about that one.  

I'm going to put on display along with your hand.

2 hours ago, Arinian said:

Huh... I was right about Alv... again! 

And again they didn't listen to you.  

29 minutes ago, little wilson said:

Eolian
Is there something else we could do with the Eolian on top of the Pipes? Because I feel like there's more that can be done there, but I'm not sure what.

Karaoke/Music class?  Lets you practice and has a chance of adding to/boosting your Pipes score?  Costs 5 Jots per lesson?

[Arinian]

8 hours ago, Alvron said:

And again they didn't listen to you.  

I think they were right in that, cause I didn't brought any good reasons. And move with question was really stupid 

But I still didn't get my vengeance! 

[Stick.]

This was fun, albeit I didn't get to use any of my Physicking actions :[ I suspect this game will have another rerun with all the modifications made? Because I'm definitely joining. Sucks that I died basically because I forgot to send in the lodging order. I could've totally survived those four attacks if only I weren't on the streets >>  but at least it made a really good writeup :P

Thanks to all the GMs who put a lot of hard work and time into this!

[DeTess]

15 hours ago, Elbereth said:

Randuir, for making ⅓ of the posts in the game when he was alive. (Seriously, you can see it recorded in the spreadsheet. It’s ridiculous.)

Nah, I only made 64 posts while I was alive according to the sheet. That means I made only around 10% of the total posts.

But yes, this was a nice game, with some complicated but interesting rules, and I'll definitely take part in the re-run, provided my time allows it.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

@randuir, according to my spreadsheet, by the end of D3 (as far as I got), you had made 52 of 363 posts.

Thank you all for such an interesting game, with particular thanks to @Elbereth, @TheMightyLopen, and @DroughtBringer. 

I'll work on post-game thoughts, which I anticipate posting in a few days time.

[TheMightyLopen]

I think El covered most everything in her post, so I don't have much to say really, but I had a blast running this game with El and Drought, and I hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I did! Thanks for playing!

And to those who were subjected to my dice, especially Wilson, sorry about that.

[DrakeMarshall]

I have returned.

Well it as a good game. Also the first time I've been on the winning team I think.

Anyways, El your writeups have been excellent.

Also I would like to mention that I studied artificery, not physicking. Although I doubt the information would have mattered.

Also out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind double tapping me? It may have been voiced in a post, but I've only really been reading write-ups for this game recently. What with having a single ward before getting expelled, I am fairly sure that Jondesu was one of the attackers.

The general structure of this game was fascinating. It seemed to work fairly well, and while village won a second time, I think it was mostly pretty close. Some other thoughts:

-I do agree that being able to spy on the eliminator doc may have been a mistake.

-I also agree that it sure would be nice to be able to create items even when not attending the university...

-I also like Wilson's suggestion about lodging restrictions on nobles. And I generally approve of balancing social classes, although I should point out that part of elimination is unfair distribution. Power roles in "vanilla" setups are rarely spread equally (although I rather appreciate the idea I've seen in this game and in LG30 where players gain power roles based on their own decisions and activity, and start with no special powers).

-In regard to no black market contracts. I was planning on using it to buy psychological counseling... Then use my ward to identify the physicker who took my contract, PM them, and start up a protection racket. It would be difficult, but... Supposing we both managed to get to master in our respective fields... And I supplied them with 3-shot grams and they kept me from going insane... We would both become nigh immortal in the game. So... Well I tried to use that system to great effect, but predictably, something went wrong.

-The Eolian is pretty chancy, though I can attest that those dice aren't always evil.

-Devi's interest rates are ruinous (which imo is as it should be, because this is Devi we are talking about), but the real kicker I think is that you just can't take out enough of a loan for it to be worth it. I mean, part of the point of a gaelet is that they will loan out to you an unsafe amount, simply because they are also going to charge really steep interest rates. Maybe you should be able to offer up certain items as collateral or something? Or maybe the consequences of defaulting on the loan could be steeper (after all a bigger loan just means you're voodoo doll is more expensive, possibly more expensive then a simple assassin, so the current consequences are in my opinion too low), but the maximum loanable amount could be higher. But the proposed loaning benefits to Cealdish should probably make Devi be a more useful feature.

-Gambling den sounds like a fun idea. I just hope it isn't basically "put in one talent, you get a 50/50 to double or nothing." At that point it becomes raw luck, which I don't like. But calculated risks... Well, that's a major part of this game. If the gambling was a little more nuanced, it could certainly be an excellent addition to the game.

-As for the apothecary... I agree that protection should be more expensive. It seems that assassins are a pretty important part of the game, because other than naming it is really the only way to kill someone... But I suppose that if protection is made more expensive, it would make sense to make killing somewhat more expensive as well.

Anyways, I do believe I should go check up on the status of LG34; just thought I'd drop by.

[Sparkrunner]

Yay! Hooray to El for a magnificent game. Out of curiosity, did my silver tounge really keep me alive for the whole game? I think in a way I was laboring, look at the whole stick thing, by taking all the pent up, undirected suspicion of me and throwing it at people who I wanted dead. Was everyone just playing me along i n the thread and really talking in PM's? I wondered because @queensteph had proof I was a skindancer. I am on mobile non but later In will post a list of everyone I sabotaged and why. In the meantime, @Burnt Spaghetti take a look at this -- 

“ Burnt rarely plays here anymore - it wouldn't really be fair to her to kill her D1, when she’s come back specifically for the game.  ” There was some fighting about sabbing Burnt early on, and an order was actually put in here, and only some very good reflexes from HH spared her, we probably could have won 

GG though.

[DeTess]

19 minutes ago, Cluny the Scourge said:

Yay! Hooray to El for a magnificent game. Out of curiosity, did my silver tounge really keep me alive for the whole game?

You'd definitely said some suspicious things, but at the same time, some of your comments where things I'd personally not associate with elims at all. So yes, in a way it did keep you alive for almost the entire game.