Mid-Range Game 9: The Steel Ministry

[Zephrer]

@creccio

As it stands, I would rather not say what I was burning. Despite the fact that I'll probably end up being lynched, I don't like the idea of revealing my power.

[Creccio]

@creccio

As it stands, I would rather not say what I was burning. Despite the fact that I'll probably end up being lynched, I don't like the idea of revealing my power.

 

If you do believe yourself a villager and do not wanted to be sacrificed to Gamma you should at least share that much. We need more people's opinion on if you deserve to burn or not though...

[polkinghornbd]

Zephrer, you just said you burned your last.  As you can't use it anymore you should be safe, as you can't be any type of threat.

[Creccio]

Zephrer, you just said you burned your last.  As you can't use it anymore you should be safe, as you can't be any type of threat.

 

He said he burned a metal LAST NIGHT, not his last charge... 

 

Did you burn anything my friend? Polk?

[polkinghornbd]

I haven't burned anything because I don't know how to use my metal to help out anyone.  I have copper, and it seems to only be useful for the skaa to remain hidden.  I will not be using it unless I actually see a need, which is difficult as there are no PMs and, even if they were here, I would not be able to tell what side the person I used it on was.

[Creccio]

@Polk

 

I can see some obscure uses of it, but it would require you to have prior knowledge...

[Alvron]

Wow.  I've missed a lot in two/three days.

 

First off, Kas, you have any and all luck I have as well as any brain power you want.  I'm not using it so it might as well go to helping out a friend.  Also, welcome back Ripple.

 

Second, well done coinshot.  Keep it up.

 

Third, I was absent due to work.  For the last three days I was either working or sleeping.  It was labour weekend here and some fellow workers wanted time off to spend with family so I took their shifts in addition to my own which resulted in 16 hour shifts.  Great pay but doesn't leave much time for anything else.  I now have five days off so I should be move active from now on.

 

Fourth, my main suspicion is Wyrm.  He claimed not to see a reason behind the deaths of Maill and Adavantos.  Both players were active and analysed quite a bit so there was plenty of reasons to kill them.  The same can be said about Sart.  You not seeing it when you are a very analytical player yourself is strange and suspicion raising.  Kas/Ripple is next on my list but that was due to things Kas was saying but that can be attributed to his busy life so I'm discounting it for the moment.

 

Edit: Vote colour change.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Alvron

[Zephrer]

We did learn a few things from Joe's death.

First: Joe was not an eliminator. Therefore, the big plan he had was actually him trying to help.
Second: Despite your suspicions that Joe and I were in league together as eliminators, Joe was obviously not involved in a plot to get Kas lynched for eliminator reasons (See Cycle two if you missed that part).

though I wish Joe hadn't died, I will use the evidence to help my defense:
Why would I try to get Kas lynched, with only Joe backing me up (which was not planned, as is now clear)? Shouldn't the other eliminators have tried to defend/assist me, or at least try to support me in the lynching or avert some measure of suspicion?

They almost certainly would try to protect me if I was an eliminator, because it would hurt them to lose an eliminator no matter how inexperienced
Therefore, I think it's rather safe to say that it's reasonable to assume I'm most likely not Skaa.

(granted this is not the best defense, but under the circumstances it is the best I have.)

@Creccio
Despite the fact that the suspicion on me is heavy, I am still an active player and as such will retain the knowledge of my power to myself. Revealing it would only serve to either paint a bigger target on me than I have now, or turn me into a completely useless player allomantically. Neither of which I am willing to become.

However I am becoming increasingly suspicious of you, Creccio. why are so interested in discovering everyone else's power? Why do you want me to reveal it so badly, enough to threaten me with a lynch, when you'd find out if I was lynched anyway?

I think you want suspicion on me to avoid suspicion on actual eliminators, and I think that you are Skaa.

 

Edit: greened out my vote

Edited October 27, 2015 by Zephrer

[DeathClutch19]

Therefore, I think it's rather safe to say that it's reasonable to assume I'm most likely not Skaa.

 

Zephrer your "I'm not skaa" defense is well..... very skaa.

 

 Also thank you for claiming polk I retracted my vote on you. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Zephrer]

Idos Domi! what is it going to take for you guys to realize that I'm an inquisitor?

[Mailliw73]

Idos Domi! 

WORLDHOPPER!!! He can't be an inquisitor! Or a skaa!

[Zephrer]

In all honesty, if I didn't defend myself would I look any less suspicious? I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't.

I've said my defense, I will say no more on it.

But I will name those whom I am currently suspicious of and why.

They are:

Creccio - your actions in the thread have been very suspicious. (Most of my reasoning is in my defense above)

Ripple. - I don't trust you because I didn't trust Kas. I believed Kas to be an eliminator, and you have inherited his role.

Deathclutch - I'm not sure why I don't trust you, but I don't... Hopefully I'll get some evidence to either clear or condemn you before I'm lynched or killed by the Skaa

Wyrm - you said you would have a seeker watch me as I burned a metal last cycle, which conveniently didn't happen. (Granted it's possible that there was a communications issue, and as such I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. So I suspect you the least, but I don't trust you)

Okay, I've presented my intuitions, evidences, etc. take them as you may, but if I'm not a Skaa, as I claim, you would do well to at least look into them.

[Creccio]

@Zeph

 

I wonder why everyone is so suspicious of me. Well, at least it promotes discussion.

 

I got some reasons that i hope tell you I am not a Skaa, I have said before to others and will now repeat to you,

 

1) I have been trying to shed light and discussion on this game from Cycle 1. Believe or not, the Skaa hate to discuss as you can see from Shallan's post. His/Her did not post or try to contribute mainly because maybe she didn't know what to say or maybe because she wanted to scoot under the radar. Why would a new player like me take the spotlight on the game if I was a Skaa? Should I just not try to lay low and blame my non-existent experience for my lack of content? We are both new to the game and we have taken very different stances on making people talk or how we approach the discussion game. I repeat, If I was a Skaa it would make no sense for me to try and make the town discuss, it is against the Skaa ideal for the town to discuss.

 

2) I will claim if you claim. At this point I believe there are only 2 metals you can possibly be and I am sure others have noticed. You are either Tin or Gold. If you really are a townsman come out and lets start discussing things. We can kill the Skaa together. And Again, if you do claim, i will claim with you. I got some plans but we need to come together.

 

Zeph, do what you believe is best for the town, be it we both claim or we both stay silent. If we dont start talking things that matter we wont get anywhere.

 

 

I will put my suspicions on Orlok

 

Why? Well, He started the bandwagon on Ripple and jumped off, why do that?  Just so maybe suspicion is not on you and clear your hands of the blood? Also, if i recall correctly you cemented the nail on Joe's coffin, and really did not contribute anything to that lynch, while someone else, namely Zeph, was on the block. Was it to protect a companion or just to pass the "contribution test"?

 

I haven't trusted you since day one and if you have anything to say, please do. Who are your suspicions and why.

I Love Cats

 

 

Edit: Re orde rof paragraphs

Edited October 27, 2015 by Creccio

[TheMightyLopen]

I'm going to put another vote on Wyrm. I've been looking through his posts, and I'm getting the feeling that he's trying to seem helpful and active without really doing much. Example: In the 2nd cycle, he called Alvron out for his vote on #1Ripple(welcome back, btw). Alvron then explains that it was a "gut" vote and that he didn't remove it later becaues his feeling about her only grew as she posted more. Wyrm says that he would like to hear "more" from him about it, so he leaves his vote on him. Thereby excusing himself from the lynch debate. There was still some cycle left and Alvron said he was going to work soon, so what was Wyrm trying to gain by leaving his vote there? How is Alvron supposed to explain a "gut" vote? That doesn't really make sense to me. I thought the whole idea behind "gut" votes is that they're feelings based on people's posts that you can't really put into words. Wyrm also says that he's getting a "gut feeling about Alvron" which could be a way to spread suspicion on Alvron without really accusing him. Although he did question why Alvron acted on a gut feeling of a new player, so that could be viewed as an accusation. But that doesn't really seem suspicious to me. In the 1st Cycle, what are you supposed to act on? The lynch was also a mistake because people messed with votes after rollover, so accusing someone for it doesn't make sense.

 

Last cycle, all of his posts center on Zephrer. 1 newish player. That doesn't seem like the most informative thing to do. I only posted once at the end of last cycle though, so I don't know how much I can really say about that.

 

Now, about Zephrer. I wouldn't say you weren't defended/assisted. Kipper, Phat, and Orlok all pushed the lynch away from you by voting for Joe. None of them mention you, and yet they avert the lynch from you. That seems like a defense to me. And while I am suspicious of you simply from the fact that you have repeatedly told us you are an inquisitor and that does not help us at all, I'd rather hear some more from Wyrm as you've said your piece.

 

Of the three (possibly) defending Zephrer, I would like to hear some more from Phat. While you did vote last cycle, you're posts have left us starved(pun intended) for information regarding your opinions and suspicions. What do you think of Zephrer? Any suspicions of your own you'd like to share?

 

Edit: ninja'd by Creccio

 

Edit2: removed vote

Edited October 28, 2015 by TheMightyLopen

[Orlok Tsubodai]

@Zeph

I wonder why everyone is so suspicious of me. Well, at least it promotes discussion.

I got some reasons that i hope tell you I am not a Skaa, I have said before to others and will now repeat to you,

1) I have been trying to shed light and discussion on this game from Cycle 1. Believe or not, the Skaa hate to discuss as you can see from Shallan's post. His/Her did not post or try to contribute mainly because maybe she didn't know what to say or maybe because she wanted to scoot under the radar. Why would a new player like me take the spotlight on the game if I was a Skaa? Should I just not try to lay low and blame my non-existent experience for my lack of content? We are both new to the game and we have taken very different stances on making people talk or how we approach the discussion game. I repeat, If I was a Skaa it would make no sense for me to try and make the town discuss, it is against the Skaa ideal for the town to discuss.

2) I will claim if you claim. At this point I believe there are only 2 metals you can possibly be and I am sure others have noticed. You are either Tin or Gold. If you really are a townsman come out and lets start discussing things. We can kill the Skaa together. And Again, if you do claim, i will claim with you. I got some plans but we need to come together.

Zeph, do what you believe is best for the town, be it we both claim or we both stay silent. If we dont start talking things that matter we wont get anywhere.

I will put my suspicions on Orlok

Why? Well, He started the bandwagon on Ripple and jumped off, why do that? Just so maybe suspicion is not on you and clear your hands of the blood? Also, if i recall correctly you cemented the nail on Joe's coffin, and really did not contribute anything to that lynch, while someone else, namely Zeph, was on the block. Was it to protect a companion or just to pass the "contribution test"?

I haven't trusted you since day one and if you have anything to say, please do. Who are your suspicions and why.

I Love Cats

Edit: Re orde rof paragraphs

Creccio,

I do wonder if you have actually read my posts over the last few days.

I will reiterate again, to save you the time.

I voted on Ripple to put pressure on her - to see how she would react to the threat of the lynch, and to bring to people's attention the slip up she had made - which, whilst obviously with hindsight a simple typo, could conceivably have been a mistake made by a Skaa.

I then went to sleep, woke up and saw that people had turned it into a bandwagon, and that Ripple appeared to be rather upset at being lynched over it. I decided that I wouldn't enjoy having it on my conscience to further perpetuate a lynch that was causing her this much upset, and she said might drive her from SE altogether.

On Joe - I had been suspicious of Joe for a while - again, you will note by reading through my prior posts I've stressed that lynching him would give us a fair amount of information, and then there is the cycle 1 plan, which again, caused an element of suspicion, and increased the information we stood to gain. In fact, I believe I actually tried to get Joe lynched in place of Ripple on cycle 1 (or was it 2?).

Creccio. Your posts have been belligerent, and accusatory without actually carrying a weight of evidence - as if you are trying to steer opinion, but not on grounds you actually believe. I've thought something has been up with your posts since day 1, but would refer your vote on me with logic contradicted by my actions as evidence of my above accusation.

Edit: Sent post before I finished it...

Edited October 27, 2015 by Orlok

[DeathClutch19]

I said it once and I'll say it again

 

Can anyone tell me what we learn from Joe's death?

"I think we gain sufficient information from his death that I'm going to vote on him without more concrete suspicions. Sorry, Joe" - Orlok

 

"Creccio. Your posts have been belligerent, and accusatory without actually carrying a weight of evidence" - Orlok

1) There is no clear-cut "evidence" in this game especially when there are such few claims and no pm's.

(by the way without claims almost all of our investigative roles are completely useless)

 

2) Belligerence is based on perception and the eye of the beholder.

3) Accusatory is a part of the game. If nobody is accused nobody has to be defensive and the skaa are able to slide by without being threatened.

 

By the way to the people who may think I'm changing my vote too much --- a vote for Orlok is a vote for Zephrer because in a world where one is skaa the other is skaa because yesterday Orlok protects Zephrer from being lynched by nailing Joe's coffin. So really I'm not changing my vote at all.

Also Orlok I'd like to hear your reads on everyone. Especially Zephrer.

Edited October 27, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Deathclutch,

The information we get from Joe's death is firstly that his intentions regarding his plan were correct - which means that we can look at the dynamic of who opposed it prior to its flaws being pointed out, among other things, and how Joe has been voting, and who has been pushing for his lynch. I haven't yet had the time to actually look through to see what we have actually gained, but those are my preliminary thoughts before I do.

I'm afraid that my vote yesterday has nothing to do with Zephrer. I hadn't formulated a position really on his alignment, but had suspicions on Joe. So rather than voting centred on the Zephrer issue, I voted on a completely different agenda.

I am now somewhat suspicious of Zephrer, but remain more so of Creccio. As I explained above, her vote on me is based on reasoning completely contradicted by my actions over the last few cycles - and it appears she hasn't actually read my posts - making it seem more like a vote on a suspicious player to ensure an inquisitor gets lynched, rather than a well formulated position.

It's also very interesting to see you leap to her defence in such a manner - without waiting to see how she responds, you change the direction of the discussion dramatically.

So if Creccio is guilty, I wouldn't be surprised if you also are.

Alvron is still alive, which means of course that I am somewhat wary of him, and I'm getting a worrying feeling about Wyrm.

Kas was on my list of suspicions, but not terribly highly. I shall be watching Ripple carefully.

[Wyrmhero]

Fourth, my main suspicion is Wyrm.  He claimed not to see a reason behind the deaths of Maill and Adavantos.  Both players were active and analysed quite a bit so there was plenty of reasons to kill them.  The same can be said about Sart.  You not seeing it when you are a very analytical player yourself is strange and suspicion raising.  Kas/Ripple is next on my list but that was due to things Kas was saying but that can be attributed to his busy life so I'm discounting it for the moment.

 

Woah there, hold your horses, let's not go putting words in peoples' mouths. You are entirely wrong on the first count, and that just shows maliciousness or carelessness, Alvron. I gave multiple reasons for Mailliw's death and reached the conclusion that looking for meanings in his death would be pointless as there could be so many different ones responsible when it's just as easy to say 'active and experienced'. So actually the opposite.

 

Adavantos... To be honest, I actually didn't know he was the one who died. I looked at the player list and saw it belonged to 'Alvom'. I didn't realise Adavantos was Alvom until just now when I looked over it.  And then you add a little bit on about Smart when I have no idea why you're connecting my previous comments to his death.

 

With regards to yesterday's vote, my intention was to take my vote off of Zephrer in the morning after (hopefully), he had replied. Unfortunately, I got the times mixed up quite a bit, and due to daylight savings time coming into effect during the Cycle and messing up the forum's times, I was unable to remove that vote.

 

For what it's worth, I am out of metals now. I was a Seeker, as useful as it is for you guys to know that. My findings are... Inconclusive, sadly. Three charges and only one succeeded in discovering something. What do you guys want me to do with them? I can tell you what I found, it's not exactly going to be earth-shattering news, but you guys might be able to think of something to do with it.

 

Edit: Also, and knowing it may get me in trouble if I am wrong, I believe Zephrer is an Inquisitor. I have no actual proof, not even through Seeking, but I think a few things line up with what I'm thinking.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Creccio]

@Orlok

 

Ok then, Is there anything you would like of me to make me less suspicious? I do read your post, i read everyone's post. I just said my suspicions. Can they be dead wrong? Yes Can I still retract? Yes.

 

What were they based on? I didn't think we would gain that much information from Joe's death, as such i just instantly jumped on you, Also, didnt think Ripple was so affected from the lynch thing and saw you as suspicous.

 

I did not think she was going to fly off from SE from that lynch pressure, had no idea. Guess it now makes more sense than before why the retract on day 1.

 

Still, Please tell me your suspicions of everyone, I will do suit myself, I can even claim if you want me to, at this point we just need information and see how everyone responds.

 

I do not have evidence, I possibly can't with the tools I am given and everything I have said I mean it and will follow through until proven otherwise; 

 

@Wyrm

 

Please do so, maybe our information can get us some confirmations or something

 

Edit: Added Wyrm and a bit to Orlok

Edited October 27, 2015 by Creccio

[Wyrmhero]

@Wyrm

 

Please do so, maybe our information can get us some confirmations or something

 

Edit: Added Wyrm and a bit to Orlok

 

I'll do so later if a few more people ask for it - But really, don't get your hopes up.

[Creccio]

I'll do so later if a few more people ask for it - But really, don't get your hopes up.

 Ok, Let's hope the best happens

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Creccio, I'm somewhat surprised that you claim not to be aware of my jumping off the Ripple bandwagon because of the distress it was causing her - I discussed it with you on the 22nd in some detail...

[Creccio]

@Orlok

 

I am aware of her distress, not her distress to the point of just quitting the community

[RippleGylf]

@Ripple Activity has nothing to do with deduction based on previous days. Anyone can read any post from any time at any time.

 

That is true. However, I find it hard to believe that after (as far as I noticed) never posting, implying that you weren't active at all, that you read through the entire game so far, and drew enough conclusions to decisively vote for polking.

 

EDIT: And now I see all the conversation about my "death." For clarifying purposes:

At the time I did feel very stressed, and having that on top of the school term ending wasn't very good. In retrospect, I can almost laugh that I got killed by the Grammar Inquisitors. Then, it was very emotional. I was considering just not doing Sanderson Elimination anymore, as I didn't feel like I was having fun doing it. But I'm good now.   Part of that was because it seemed like Orlok wasn't intending for it to turn into a lynch train, and Creccio PM'd me later just to chat. So, I'm not really sour over that death now, just at the time it wasn't very good.

Edited October 27, 2015 by RippleGylf

[STINK]

Polking, You are voting for me as you did last cycle, which I defended myself against (or if I didn't, its because I had already explained my actions), so why are you pushing for my death so hard?

Also, I'm currently on holiday where the chances of me getting WiFi are low so can't really do much.