Mid-Range Game 9: The Steel Ministry

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

 Nothing in this game is certain. The "what if's?" are endless. So I make do with what is given to me little by little.

@Stink and everyone else reading the argument between me and Kipper

 

I understand that him being overly defensive does not condemn him as 100% skaa. And that's not the point I'm trying to get across. Nothing I do or say can condemn him as 100% skaa. I'm not a true seeker role that checked him night one.

It's up to you guys to make do with what I gave away to you guys in my posts and what his defense gave away to you guys in his posts.

 

Was he being overly defensive?

Did he brush off every point made against him as a joke?

Once he realized my true intentions did he change his tone a little too much?

Did Deathclutch have any good points?

Did Kipper have any good points?

Does any of this even make him Skaa or is he just defending himself like an Inquisition would?

Was his defense good and actually seems more like an Inquisitor now?

Has Deathclutch just been lying to us and he has ulterior motives?

Does Deathclutch seem more Skaa after all of this?

 

It's up to you! I've done all I can.

My goal was to get you guys to be able to get a good read based off of BOTH of our posts on who is Inquisition and who is not!

 

No one of my points can make him a proven skaa. The double negatives, the overly-defensive, the skaa kills, the terrible reason given for voting for joe, the step-by-step process he explained, him asking mail to be killed d1. None of it can make him proven skaa. I know I sound confident in my reads (It's because I am ) and I know I made it sound like I'm finding one thing per post and using that to make him 100% skaa every time, but that's not what I'm trying to get at. I just want some D5 Discussion.

 

edit: Format

Edited October 30, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Clanky he/him]

Clanky could I get your opinion on me?

Any read is welcome.

 

 

edit: he got offline I cry everytime

 

Sorry for leaving you hanging there. Had school in a few hours and decided I should probably sleep at least a little.

 

Now for my opinion on you. I started off when you became active again thinking that you were good. Then I realized that this post here was basically just rehashing my suspicions so I thought you may be trying to gain my trust through that. Also your recent defence of me from Kipper reinforces that this may be the case. This doesn't mean that I don't appreciate it but anytime someone defends me without reason to trust me 100% I worry about that. 

 

Other than that you have been good about promoting discussion and have been very open with your suspicions. This makes me want to trust you even though I disagree with some of your suspicions and methods (mostly how you are using who played in previous games). Also you had Lopen as the most suspicious person in the game in your will before his death which is a (small) point in your favour.

 

So if I had to guess which side you are on I am leaning inquisitor, but that doesn't mean that I am not watching you very carefully

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

Thanks for responding Clanky!

To be perfectly honest with you Clanky I didn't entirely(not at all sorry ) read your post against Zephrer I just read the vote tally and noticed you and Wyrm voted for him (At the time you were my top two town) and I could definitely see how you could see me as rehashing your suspicions considering Zephrer hadn't said much since then (hell even now he's only posted a few times after d3) and so we didn't have much to go on.

 

As you might have noticed with me defending Creccio, I am very defensive of people who I believe to be town. ESPECIALLY when I believe that the person attempting to attack my townsmember is a Skaa.

 

Note: I'm not dead set on voting for Kipper. I am also willing to vote on my other suspicions (Alfa and Zephrer) until they give me a reason to think they are Inquisition.

 

EDIT: The (not at all sorry ) Doesn't mean I'm NOT SORRY. It means: I didn't read it at all sorry. Lol I reread over it and was like oops.  ALSO sorry for use of acronym profanity it's a part of my vernacular as a college student and avid gamer. I'm glad that the website caught me though haha. Edited it out.

Edited October 30, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Clanky he/him]

 

Wyrm: Probably wouldn't have offered to GM LG15 if he was skaa. Either that or he's magic. If you are, I'm impressed. Anyway, I don't like you're voting for me, but, what can you say? I'm suspicious. I'm alright that I'm being voted for.

 

 

You have to sign up a long time ahead of GMing right? So didn't Wyrm know he would be GMing the next LG before even signing up for this game?

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

As much as I believe all three of you are Inquisition, and I want you all to trust each other as much as possible, I don't think he'd skip GM'ing just because he's skaa.

Edited October 30, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Guest]

Winter, I generally don't like to discuss meta-strategy in thread (in PMs, sure), for many of the same reasons as I don't like to talk about D1 lynches during D1. The mere discussion of them renders them toothless. But answering your question, I don't think I've ever said that I hate IKYKs. That's Wilson. Revel in them, yes I do. Hate them, nope. I don't believe that act of analyzing an IKYK has much value, although analyzing the motive behind using one is certainly enlightening. Additionally, they're just fun for some self-inflicted mind torture. In PMs, I tend to use them a lot (although I tend to use a different conversational style with you, specifically, which is why you may have thought I hate them). That said, are you referring to a specific I Know You Know? I'm afraid that referring to one as “that" is rather unclear.
If about my last post: You may have something specific about it, but the whole post was really one big joke, as Deathclutch rightly pointed out. As I implied, I don't know how to combat illogical accusations with logic.
If about my “requesting Maill's death": Not sure how this argument made it past the drawing board.
If about my “Skaa Plan": Again, I just what everyone else said, with more detail. Did my conclusions not make logical sense? It's not like I posted that analysis before Maill died, and everyone agreed (except possibly Deathclutch and Clanky).
If about “Kipper killing off the Corporates": I really don't want to even talk about this. If anyone here is genuinely considering the possibility that I might be killing off people from the QF from some vendetta, in a game where I did almost nothing, they need to get a kidney transplant or something.
If about something else that I said: I'd be happy to discuss it as soon as I know what it is.

As a side note to all of this, I wish there was a place where we could discuss meta-gamey stuff without running the risk of lying.

 

 

Okay I a finally back and able to address the rest of kippers suspicions about me. It seems like things have escalated while I was gone.

 

1: So when I suggested that Maills death had some analytical value I did give my ideas about what I thought they might be. That is in this post. I didn't give any hard accusations about what I thought because I wanted to know what other people thought. Unfortunately al I got from people was don't look into it too hard because it was probably just a fear kill. I decided not to keep pressing on about it because of all the negative feedback I was getting. Tat is why you saw me post this  

I do tend to believe in most cases that the first few kills are fear kills and the other part of this post was supposed to be slightly sarcastic in that everybody knows not to attempt to analyze eliminator kills(Except me). I understand how this makes me seem like I changed my mind but I have still been keeping the maill kill in mind when analyzing this game and I am currently leaning towards this option as to why it happened: 

This is actually one of my main reasons for not voting Wyrm.

 

2: If you actually go and see what I said about the contribution crusade you will see that it bears very little resemblance to the original"only try and lynch inactives unless there is undoubtable suspicion". I was attempting to find a different way to spur inactives into participating by threatening death by coinshots. It doesn't eliminate the power of the lynch but can still work to promote activity. I'm sorry that I used the words contribution crusade while doing this but I do like the true goal of the crusade even if the original name and banners were created by an eliminator.

 

3: I tried to answer this in the first rebuttal I made but if I didn't I would be glad to answer any more questions you have kipper.

 

 

Now after seeing kippers reasoning I feel no different about kippers guilt or innocence. This obviously was a well thought out argument and I hope that I answered your suspicions to your liking. 

 

EDIT: Got Kasrippimar and Wyrm confused

About 1 and 3, I don't know. It's a bit hard for me to definitely say what your motives were at the time for posting that, but personally, I don't see it how you are describing it. I doubt that my position on that is going to change, just to be upfront.

About 2, I'm willing to overlook that, because I admit that I'm not explaining why that's a problem to me very well. I still don't know what it is about that, so just forget it.

[Wyrmhero he/him]

Wyrm: Probably wouldn't have offered to GM LG15 if he was skaa. Either that or he's magic. If you are, I'm impressed. Anyway, I don't like you're voting for me, but, what can you say? I'm suspicious. I'm alright that I'm being voted for.

 

To be fair, I could just be magic in general. Are you saying that Inquisitors can't be magic? That sounds like skaa talk to me.

(this space for rent)

 

On serious terms, I really wouldn't count that as any sort of evidence for or against me. I admit time will be a little constrained like this, but at the same time, there was no way I was going to wait again in order to run a game. Actually, if a skaa could kill me, it'd be rather handy .

 

My vote's still staying there on Winter, though. You don't get out of being seen as suspicious by admitting that you're suspicious >>. I would very much like to know why you say so many people stand out but aren't voting.

 

This whole thing with Deathclutch and everything is just making me want to lynch one of them so we know more where the others stand, except for the fact that if the skaa were being smart, they wouldn't be on either side, or at least they would have ignored it after it started to get serious.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[STINK he/him]

I like how everyone seems to agree on me being an inquisitor right now, but if you don't then please speak up.

[STINK he/him]

It was both a bad day and a bad mood.

[Creccio he/him]

I would like to know more about Alfa,

 

What do you think about Kipper, Clutch and Winter? What do you think of them?

[Guest]

Okay, I'm actually going to place a vote on Deathclutch, because he's said enough to make me even more suspicious of him than Clanky, and I think we could learn a bit from his death.

For one, that comment about me killing him tonight was not at all helpful for a villager to say. 

Also, most of his "suspicions" of me have been rather unfounded and baseless. As of now, he seems like a more suspicious target than Clanky, but I'm definitely still watching Clanky.

[Creccio he/him]

Tally:

 

Clutc(2)h: Kipper, Polking

Winter(2): Wyrm, Clanky

Kipper(1): Clucth

 

Just so everyone knows

Edited October 31, 2015 by Creccio

[polkinghornbd he/him]

Creccio, how does kipper have two votes? He only had clutch down as voting for him

[Creccio he/him]

Creccio, how does kipper have two votes? He only had clutch down as voting for him

 

Sorry, Typo on my part. Thanks for catching that!

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Write-up finally edited in! Apologies for the delay. >.> This turn will still end at the scheduled time, and rollover posted as promptly as possible!

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

Shi Kuratchi approached Kipper. After a long day of arguing, he had decided to make up with Kipper. He took Kipper’s hand and they walked down the along the city wall, strolling hand in hand into the sunset. “Isn’t that grandiose?” Shi asked Kipper.

“Shhh,” said Kipper, “let’s just enjoy it for what it is.” They both smiled faintly, as if sharing some private joke then walked on. They kept walking, hand in hand, smile and smile,  and Shi suddenly stopped.

His smile remained but tears rolled down his face as he spoke. “I wish I could. I really wish I could. Maybe in the next life. I’m sorry Kipper,” he said. He pulled out a coin from his pocket and flipped it into the air, Pushing it towards Kipper. He shot it through the man’s stomach, dropping him to the ground. “If only Citona and Kellam had not said those things in their last moments.  I think we could've been friends.” Shi Pushed a new trio of coins into the body on the ground to ensure his death. “Skaa,” he said shaking his head, “they’ll never learn."

 

As your killer I’ll take your question as your final wish,

Kipper, on 29 Oct 2015 - 8:12 PM, said:

 

 

I'm reading back through my old posts, thinking, “What was it that started this tunnel?" And I can't find anything.

the tunnel began with your consistency in attacks against people I knew to be Inquisition.

(which was delegitimization of the other person’s post)

Side note* At first the tunnel was a half-act to get a rise out of you. I was only 60% sure you were skaa due to reasons already posted. The tunnel became real after your post with the list.

Kipper, on 29 Oct 2015 - 3:02 PM, said:

 

 

So it seems to me that Clanky was simply trying to run a flag up a pole to see if would fly, to see if he could get a lynch going on someone he knew to be innocent.

 

 

Kipper, on 20 Oct 2015 - 9:02 PM, said:

 

 

I'm kind of curious as to what Joe's real motivation for throwing that plan out was. My immediate thought was that he was just trying to run it up the pole to see if it would stick, because the flaw *is* rather obvious.

 

Kipper, on 29 Oct 2015 - 8:12 PM, said:

 

 

8. That whole list of things is set up to deligitimize a point that I may or may not make! (See, that was VERY Skaa, to point out a tactic that I might use to draw suspicion away from myself...)

Edited October 31, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[STINK he/him]

With a name like DeathClutch and HellScythe, should I really be surprised that you're claiming to be a coinshot?

[Guest]

Kipper keeled over and died.

With his last breath...he simply breathed.

And then the black.

[Guest]

Wait, people I know to be Inquisitors? How would you know that, Deathclutch? You're the Coinshot who killed Lopen and Shallan? Huh? I'm so confused...

I think we're just supposed to do RP now, if we talk at all, since the cycle is technically closed.

[Guest]

until 8AM EST Saturday, October 31st (Halloween!)

Yes. One and a half hours ago.

[STINK he/him]

We're gonna need to you to make one of those countdown things for every SE thread

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Thread is locked and cycle is over! (by quite a good bit of hours). Will get next cycle up later after work!

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

"So who do I get to kill today?"

Grim had had to rest after exerting himself the last few days, and found time catching up with him. But he decided to make up for lost time with renewed vigor. He doubted his students shared his enthusiasm.

Even while burning tin, he could barely hear a sound in the room save for the occasional clearing of one's throat or the shuffling of some feet. It seemed nobody wanted to look him in his steel eyes and give him a name.

"Very well." He said rigidly, and strode out of the room, slamming the doors closed with iron behind him. They heard a scraping, thudding sound, followed by the loud crack of something snapping. Upon inspection, they found Grim's obsidian ax half-buried in the rock wall, and then snapped off at the handle. Grim was nowhere to be seen in the dim tunnel.

***

Wyrm Heron muttered under his breath, cursing himself for his foolishness. He had decided to try and follow Grim, maybe offer up some of his findings to the grim Inquisitor, give him any aide he could. Of course, he also ran the risk of being killed on spot, given Grim's current animosity. But still. He had already ran out of bronze, so he figured he'd be of no more use anyways to the cause. Maybe the man would even give him some more metals.

And maybe The Lord Ruler would give us all puppy wolfhounds. He thought wryly.

He peeked over a corner, peering suspiciously at all the shadows, trying not to find himself walking into an ambush. He wondered -- and not for the first time -- what he was even doing here. He should be off running an empire somewhere. He had long ago crushed his hopes and dreams of seeing and living a life above and beyond the mists. But he was where he was, and was going to do his best to help eradicate these pesky skaa.

He heard a coughing sound behind him, and then spun around, only to be greeted with coins to the gut. He sputtered and looked up shocked.

"Why me?" He asked, before falling over and dying.

***

Kipper kept looking over his shoulder, feeling more and more uneasy with each passing hour, a slow dread creeping over his heart like the mists at night, obscuring all thoughts and hope of seeing daylight again. Looking at Grim's face before he had departed had left him with the trepidation that things were only going to get worse with each passing day.

What's the point of all of this anyway? Kipped asked himself, taking a look around at the dusty abandoned rooms lining the hall he was walking down. He never knew a place of learning with a torture pit at the bottom of a long, scary tunnel. Taking a look around the dusty, unkempt rooms had told him this was no place of learning, and that it had long been abandoned.

There was something off about this whole thing, he just wasn't sure what.

Suddenly a light flared up behind him, a silhouette holding a torch standing in the doorway, and his only way out of the room he had conveniently cornered himself if. He knew that burning iron would be useless without any sort of hazekiller gear, so he gritted his teeth and bid them to get on with it.

His assailant said no words, just held out their hands and coins flew forward catching Kipper in the chest.

"Jokes on you, I'm not even skaa," he said, dying laughing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No lynch!
Kipper was an Inquisitor Lurcher!
Wyrm Heron was an Inquisitor Seeker!

Both were coinshot! (Will be clearly indicated once write-up posted)

Winter (2) - Wyrm, Clanky
Kipper (1) - Deathclutch
Deathclutch (2) - Polk, Kipper

48hours, 2AM EST, Tuesday November 3rd

Edited October 29, 2016 by Alvron

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

Well. Way to make an entrance into the game other coinshot. Shooting the seeker with no charges.

 

Not that I'm one to talk myself I just shot our last lurcher. I'm obviously out of shots. I shot Shallan n3. Lopen n4.

I'm sorry I couldn't get 3/3.

That would've been amazing for my first game here.

Obviously I'm a proven coinshot after my post about Kipper.

If you still somehow doubt me I obviously didn't join discussion until the end of the third day. Right after that the coinshots started going off.

More proof is that Lopen was at the top of my suspicious list right before he died. Coincidence? C'mon guys. I honestly thought I gave myself away to the Skaa by doing that.

 

I'm sorry for killing Kipper. I'm especially sorry to Kipper. I tunneled real hard.

 

But it's still 10 to 4. And I know who all the skaa are now and who all the Inquisitors are. Again I'm sorry Kipper had to die for it to be clear to me. But it was necessary. We have 2 day/night cycles , 2 lynches, 2 coinshots. Easy game. Let's do this. LERROOOOOOY JENNNNNKIIIIIIINS

Edited November 1, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[STINK he/him]

Anyone have a player list?