Satsuoni Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 In WoA: Human the Koloss has to discover the Trust is empty before Ruin notices that there is no Atium. If Atium is the physical manifestation of Ruin's Investiture, when it is burnt it is returned to the source: Ruin. So Elend burning all the Atium was in the end a net gain for Ruin. But why was he unaware of it returning? Is the amount so miniscule that it was unnoticeable? Also, if there is more Presentation than Ruin in every human, and the above question is correct, why was the Vin v. Ati reaction so balanced? Should not Ruin have come out on top? Or is this simply a matter of polarised Intents being incompatible? The atium was a part of the body that was separated from Ruin. Burned Atium returned not to Ruin, but to the Pits. Ruin needed to metabolize atium back into himself before regaining lost bit. Incidentally, the amount of power cut off in atium cycle seems to be exactly the same (in size) as the part used by Preservation to make humans sentient, balancing the two forces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Why does v Ruin have a body? Extreme levels of Investiture rips troughs through the physical body of aShardholder (WoB). The Mists vaporize Vin. What Physical body are we referring to? If it's the physical portion of Ruin, I understand. There are 3 Realms, however they're connected. All is one, and one is all kind of thing. So if using the Physical Portionportion if Investiture, the Investiture should return to the Spiritual and Cognitive portions it Ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Why does v Ruin have a body? Extreme levels of Investiture rips troughs through the physical body of aShardholder (WoB). The Mists vaporize Vin. What Physical body are we referring to? If it's the physical portion of Ruin, I understand. There are 3 Realms, however they're connected. All is one, and one is all kind of thing. So if using the Physical Portionportion if Investiture, the Investiture should return to the Spiritual and Cognitive portions it Ruin. Not the physical... I call them "cycles", personally. It is the "body" than spans all 3 realms. Essentially, it is like this: when a person burns metal, he uses Preservation's power, but that power returns to the Preservation as soon as it is used up. When Preservation moves planets around, that power returns to the Preservation. But when human dies, his soul (that part of it made up from Preservation) doesn't (seem to) rejoin Preservation. It is separate. Same thing with Ruin and atium. Atium cycle is separate from Ruin: atium condenses in the Pits, is burned (into spiritual?) and returns to Pits. Ruin has no say as to where it goes. He can, however, find it, partially manifest (as mist spirit?) and eat it, reabsorbing it into his body (all of it, spiritual, physical, etc). Then he would be able to overpower Preservation by some slight margin, and destroy the world directly (presumably). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 In WoA: Human the Koloss has to discover the Trust is empty before Ruin notices that there is no Atium. If Atium is the physical manifestation of Ruin's Investiture, when it is burnt it is returned to the source: Ruin. So Elend burning all the Atium was in the end a net gain for Ruin. But why was he unaware of it returning? Is the amount so miniscule that it was unnoticeable? Also, if there is more Presentation than Ruin in every human, and the above question is correct, why was the Vin v. Ati reaction so balanced? Should not Ruin have come out on top? Or is this simply a matter of polarised Intents being incompatible? Atium being burnt doesn't convert it to a usable form as far as we know. It makes it temporarily unusable, and then later returns it to atium crystals somewhere. Ruin needs to metabolize the crystals for him to use the power, per WOB. Leras used the force of his mind to bind the surplus Ruin power, making him a shadow of himself. This surplus power was the atium. If Ruin had been able to reabsorb the atium he would have been stronger than Vin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Not the physical... I call them "cycles", personally. It is the "body" than spans all 3 realms. Essentially, it is like this: when a person burns metal, he uses Preservation's power, but that power returns to the Preservation as soon as it is used up. When Preservation moves planets around, that power returns to the Preservation. But when human dies, his soul (that part of it made up from Preservation) doesn't (seem to) rejoin Preservation. It is separate. Same thing with Ruin and atium. Atium cycle is separate from Ruin: atium condenses in the Pits, is burned (into spiritual?) and returns to Pits. Ruin has no say as to where it goes. He can, however, find it, partially manifest (as mist spirit?) and eat it, reabsorbing it into his body (all of it, spiritual, physical, etc). Then he would be able to overpower Preservation by some slight margin, and destroy the world directly (presumably). Atium being burnt doesn't convert it to a usable form as far as we know. It makes it temporarily unusable, and then later returns it to atium crystals somewhere. Ruin needs to metabolize the crystals for him to use the power, per WOB. Leras used the force of his mind to bind the surplus Ruin power, making him a shadow of himself. This surplus power was the atium. If Ruin had been able to reabsorb the atium he would have been stronger than Vin. So Leras mind was actually the Pits? I was under the impression it was the WoA locking Ruin's mind away from his body. Seems I had it backwards, he locked the power up from the mind. I didn't think it was a system of condensing Investiture into Atium though. Had the impression the Pits were a natural release valve for Investiture the way Aons are for for the Dor. What then of Lerasium? Preservation only had the 16 beads and as far as we know they never regenerate. Does burning i those beads destroy the Investiture forever? That dosnt exactly mesh with this idea. If the Pits were Leras' way of containing Ruin, the Physical "body" of Ruin should have been forming in another way prior to its containment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So Leras mind was actually the Pits? I was under the impression it was the WoA locking Ruin's mind away from his body. Seems I had it backwards, he locked the power up from the mind. I didn't think it was a system of condensing Investiture into Atium though. Had the impression the Pits were a natural release valve for Investiture the way Aons are for for the Dor. What then of Lerasium? Preservation only had the 16 beads and as far as we know they never regenerate. Does burning i those beads destroy the Investiture forever? That dosnt exactly mesh with this idea. If the Pits were Leras' way of containing Ruin, the Physical "body" of Ruin should have been forming in another way prior to its containment. OK, this is more speculative, but, IIRC: Ruin's mind was largely contained near the WoA. A chunk of Ruin's shardic body, like a splinter but without self-awareness, was contained and channeled into the pits. Whether the pits themselves were deliberate or side effect of, well, chunking Ruin is unknown, but I think deliberate release valve. The whole system was made by the sacrifice of Leras's mind (or at least the sacrifice provided the necessary power that Ruin didn't expect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 If I remember correctly Ruin's consciousness wasn't confined to the area around the Well, he could "go" anywhere he wanted he just couldn't DO much of anything. His prison wasn't one of a traditional sense he could try to affect something but Preservation's power would push back, canceling out his actions. The atium was something separate from Ruin's prison, Preservation set up the Pits to siphon away a portion of Ruin's power and lock it away in physical form, thereby preventing Ruin from easily accessing it. When atium is burnt that energy does not return directly to Ruin. When shards fuel magic systems that aren't "theirs", i.e. Ruin and Allomancy, it requires them to expend energy in a way they are reluctant to do. Basically it a long time for the energy expended to return to them. Think of a Shard fueling one of its magic systems like that M.C. Escher sketch the energy can constantly be cycled. A shard who is fueling another magic system it is more like a traditional water wheel, the water has to evaporate downsteam and get rained back down upstream before it can go back through the water wheel. Does that make sense? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So, I've been working to get the Ultimate List updated, but it isn't done yet. If you want to take a look at most all of the questions compiled, here it is: https://docs.google.com/document/m/?id=1IA4BqbHKJtgckPjKMJKbiBEVgZ-YROwyvmgvaaP7VD0&login=1&pli=1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Those questions are pretty great, guys. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailliw73 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there any way to store and summon Shardplate like a Shardblade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 When Stennimar died the first time, he was in a place across a shimmering curtain of light and color, able to see the future of our world. Where was he? The spiritual realm? The cognitive realm? Somewhere different entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 So Leras mind was actually the Pits? I was under the impression it was the WoA locking Ruin's mind away from his body. Seems I had it backwards, he locked the power up from the mind. I didn't think it was a system of condensing Investiture into Atium though. Had the impression the Pits were a natural release valve for Investiture the way Aons are for for the Dor. What then of Lerasium? Preservation only had the 16 beads and as far as we know they never regenerate. Does burning i those beads destroy the Investiture forever? That dosnt exactly mesh with this idea. If the Pits were Leras' way of containing Ruin, the Physical "body" of Ruin should have been forming in another way prior to its containment. It was explained pretty clearly at the Chapter starts. Leras used his mind to imprison Ati's mind and a fragment of his power. This surplus power of Ruin was stored at the Pits. Leras' mind power and power was stored in the Well of Ascension (as well as many other places) and used to lock away Ruin. I have no idea how you took from my statements the idea that the Pits were Leras' mind. The Pits were an unnatural release valve for the imprisoned Ruin investiture. That being said, if Sazed wanted to I am sure he could create Atium since he has almost limitless power. The chapter starts explicitly state that the power used by Preservation at the WoA regenerates. That includes the beads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hi, this is my first post. Is it possible for a person to separate their cognitive aspect from their physical self? Can people in the cosmere have 'out of body' experiences? ( is the question clear enough? ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Do we know how big the glass beads in Shadesmar are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepene Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hi, this is my first post. Is it possible for a person to separate their cognitive aspect from their physical self? Can people in the cosmere have 'out of body' experiences? ( is the question clear enough? ) With an aluminium metal mind you can store your identity, if that counts. Short of being a shard/ holder of the well of ascension, we haven't seen any evidence of out of body experiences. So you could ask about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 What color are Darkness' eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Do we know how big the glass beads in Shadesmar are?sanme as spheres IThink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Okay, so the list is totally up-to-date now. Unfortunately, the new forum software screws with all the formatting I've done to it, so there are random bullet points and whatnot that I cannot fix no matter what I do. So, it's not pretty, and the numbers are wrong, but its there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I wonder if a Google doc would be better - it feels like it would be a little easier to format and you can more easily let other people help you maintain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Question to add... related to the Shards & Magic question #1 Can you please define the word "soul" in relation to Realmatic theory? Is it the Cognitive aspect of a person? The Spiritual aspect? A blend of 2 or 3 aspects? In healing (with Bloodmaker ferrings, Stormlight, etc) you discuss repairs to a soul as it sees itself, so we'd like to clarify what is going on there Realmatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Does shardblades sound liuke screams to seeking mistborn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSHtaFARian2.0 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) Despite not being on Roshar, Odium is at least partially Invested there. Is he Invested in Braize as well, or is he able to reside there without Investing? Are any of the other Shards in the Roshar system (including Honor when he was still alive) aware of the presence of a Shard on Ashyn? Edited March 9, 2014 by ROSHtaFARian2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbereth Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Do they have slings on Roshar (outside Shinovar)? If so, what do they make them out of? Are there cattle in Shinovar (or outside it, I suppose)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Despite not being on Roshar, Odium is at least partially Invested there. Is he Invested in Braize as well, or is he able to reside there without Investing? Are any of the other Shards in the Roshar system (including Honor when he was still alive) aware of the presence of a Shard on Ashyn? IIRC, there's a WoB that states Odium is currently Invested in Braize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina Stormshard Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 my favourite: " How long would it take Eddard Stark to attract an Honorspren?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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