Random Stuff II

[Mistrunner]

Bottom line is, I care for people, not organizations. I can love Americans even while thinking America itself is a lousy crem-pit. Anything else, like waving a flag or reciting an oath of obedience, strikes me as way too similar to chimps in the rainforest beating branches and hooting for the glory of their troop. Love is an important ethical virtue. Patriotism is just a way of harnessing love to further a group of hierarchial primates' agenda.

Just a reminder: some of us primates like our beating of branches and hooting. I'm patriotic; I don't like being called a monkey. You're an awesome person, Kobold, and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but that comparison can be taken as kind of.. well, unkind. I find my patriotism as a way to honor what American ideals are. I find it as a way to honor American troops. It's a very personal kind of love for country.

I know there are probably people who take it too far, and those people are the ones people will notice because they're conspicuous. But for me, patriotism is the veterans at the American Legion putting up flags along the road in front of their guild hall in Memorial Day, even though they're getting on a bit in years. Patriotism is the Scouts coming to help them. Am I making any sense?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Mistrunner

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

My Anchorage interview is tomorrow. I'm currently envisioning everything that can go wrong. Among the best: they use the wrong Skype handle and, by pure happenstance, interview someone entirely different who receives the job.

[Darkness Ascendant]

My Anchorage interview is tomorrow. I'm currently envisioning everything that can go wrong. Among the best: they use the wrong Skype handle and, by pure happenstance, interview someone entirely different who receives the job.

That won't happen. Remember, they have probably done this before. GOOD LUCK!!

[RippleGylf]

Re: Re: Introverted

 

To be honest, I don't know which I am. I really enjoy being with people and expressing myself, and I gain a sort of energy from it. However, I'm very socially awkward, which makes it difficult to talk to people without spewing nonsense from my mouth. Due to this, I'm often drained of social energy because I can't talk to people. Even if the conversation is going somewhat normally, I'll start to blush without any cause to. This makes for a very sad Ripple. 

[Mestiv]

Well, I'm impressed that my question about the Pledge started such a discussion... I obviously don't really have a stance on it. All I can say is that in Poland, patriotism is a big thing, although there seems to be a division into two kinds of people that call themselves patriots. This division I think is present in other European countries as well, as we have a wave of nationalism spreading around the continent.

 

Polish patriots version 1: People that believe that their country is the best and are very much against mixing cultures or accepting immigrants. They believe, that the European Union is there to destroy Poland, and they want to "protect" us from it's devious influence. This kind of people are always very conservative and I'd say too religious. Some even want to nominate Mary (mother of Jesus) as queen of Poland   If we had something like the Pledge in Poland, this kind of people would probably scream it in top of their lungs. Those kind of patriots currently believe that our country is ruled by people whose main objective is to destroy Poland 

 

Polish patriots version 2: I'd say that's the left-winged kind. More open to other cultures and nations. Support european integration, while preserving out cultural heritage. Support their country by paying taxes, taking care of their surroundings and obeying the laws etc. Unfortunately, this group is smaller than the former one or at least the first group is much more visible and louder. 

 

I really hope that the nationalist kind of patriots won't start winning elections across Europe, they really scare me...

 

 

Re: homeschooling

This thing is foreign to me too. Here in Poland, public/institutional schooling is mandatory. Only kids with severe psychological disorders or serious health issues are allowed to be schooled in their homes. I'm not sure what to think about it. I guess I'm happy that we don't have homeschooling, as I think to many parents would totally neglect their children education in some fields. Like, both parents were poor at math, so the kid will only know the very basics, even if he/she has a knack for it.

 

Re: Introverts/Extraverts

I'm an introvert or an amivert myself. I have no problem with social interactions, but if I go for couple of days without some time for myself I'm getting really grumpy. So, yeah, when I go to family diner during Easter, where we have something around 30 (yes, that many) people at one table I don't feel that bad

[Kestrel]

I honestly don't like saying it. I find it creepy. Besides, I don't like this state or country, I want to move, at least out of the south. Don't know where I'll go just.. away. Maybe into Canada. If I can find a job in my field. But yeah unless things get better soon I'm going far far away.

[Blaze1616]

Well, I'm impressed that my question about the Pledge started such a discussion... I obviously don't really have a stance on it. All I can say is that in Poland, patriotism is a big thing, although there seems to be a division into two kinds of people that call themselves patriots. This division I think is present in other European countries as well, as we have a wave of nationalism spreading around the continent.

 

Polish patriots version 1: People that believe that their country is the best and are very much against mixing cultures or accepting immigrants. They believe, that the European Union is there to destroy Poland, and they want to "protect" us from it's devious influence. This kind of people are always very conservative and I'd say too religious. Some even want to nominate Mary (mother of Jesus) as queen of Poland   If we had something like the Pledge in Poland, this kind of people would probably scream it in top of their lungs. Those kind of patriots currently believe that our country is ruled by people whose main objective is to destroy Poland 

 

Polish patriots version 2: I'd say that's the left-winged kind. More open to other cultures and nations. Support european integration, while preserving out cultural heritage. Support their country by paying taxes, taking care of their surroundings and obeying the laws etc. Unfortunately, this group is smaller than the former one or at least the first group is much more visible and louder. 

 

I really hope that the nationalist kind of patriots won't start winning elections across Europe, they really scare me...

 

That is...actually very much like it is here. Our left winged "patriots" are incredibly quiet, to the point that you can't ever be certain if they actually exist. Meanwhile, our right winged "patriots" are very much against anything not Caucasian Christian, believe that our current governing party have the deliberate goal to see the U.S. smoldering in ashes, and are overall just intolerant of anything that is different from them. Oh, and they're VERY loud.

 

And about 10 of them are running for President, with elections next year.

[Kobold King]

Just a reminder: some of us primates like our beating of branches and hooting. I'm patriotic; I don't like being called a monkey. You're an awesome person, Kobold, and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but that comparison can be taken as kind of.. well, unkind. I find my patriotism as a way to honor what American ideals are. I find it as a way to honor American troops. It's a very personal kind of love for country.

I know there are probably people who take it too far, and those people are the ones people will notice because they're conspicuous. But for me, patriotism is the veterans at the American Legion putting up flags along the road in front of their guild hall in Memorial Day, even though they're getting on a bit in years. Patriotism is the Scouts coming to help them. Am I making any sense?

 

I certainly didn't mean any offense. There's nothing wrong with patriotism per se, but in it's raw form, it is an animalistic instinct. There's nothing wrong with that. Humans are animals, and it's our instincts that make the world go round. But I think it's of the utmost importance that we always remember which tendencies of ours are the most important, and which are just the product of chemical hormones bouncing around in our brains. If we don't at least bear in mind the dangers in overemphasizing patriotism, a despot like Adolf Hitler could appeal to that patriotism and do terrible things before we even realize what's happening.

 

And I support what those Scouts did--in fact, were I there, I would have helped put the flags up. There's patriotism, which is doing things and thinking things solely for the abstract idea of a nation, and then there's kindness, which is doing something because it would mean a lot to the people you're helping.

[Orlion Blight]

I honestly don't like saying it. I find it creepy. Besides, I don't like this state or country, I want to move, at least out of the south. Don't know where I'll go just.. away. Maybe into Canada. If I can find a job in my field. But yeah unless things get better soon I'm going far far away.

You can't run from your troubles, ain't no place that far!

[Kaymyth]

I honestly don't like saying it. I find it creepy. Besides, I don't like this state or country, I want to move, at least out of the south. Don't know where I'll go just.. away. Maybe into Canada. If I can find a job in my field. But yeah unless things get better soon I'm going far far away.

 

I think you catch some of the worst of it being in Texas.  There are a lot of places here in the States where you'd feel more at home, I think.  Heck, even though Missouri and Kansas aren't exactly known for being liberal bastions, the KC area has a remarkable and supportive myriad of subcultures.  There are a lot of other cities like it.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

I think you catch some of the worst of it being in Texas. There are a lot of places here in the States where you'd feel more at home, I think. Heck, even though Missouri and Kansas aren't exactly known for being liberal bastions, the KC area has a remarkable and supportive myriad of subcultures. There are a lot of other cities like it.

You might feel more at home in the Northwest. Seattle or Portland, sure, but even Spokane--which is more conservative than Seattle--is liberal by Texas standards. The guy who sat for the Pledge? He wrote a long letter to the school drama teacher when said teacher chose Jesus Christ Superstar (described as "the Gospel of Mark on acid") as a school play, and that letter was published, uncontested, on the front page of the school paper.

Opinion below the spoiler.

He was well within his rights to do that, and the school was well within theirs to publish it, but I think he made a mountain out of a molehill. He touched on separation of church and state, but his biggest contention was that "by choosing to perform a religious play, you are depriving me and other atheists of our right to audition." Which....wasn't true. He could have auditioned; he just chose not to because the play conflicted with his beliefs. I did the same thing when the play chosen was a sex farce called Noises Off. The school made its choice and I made mine.

I'm not saying he didn't have a right to voice his objections, because he did. But when it came to ideological objections, he had a real double standard going on. Had I voiced my objections to Noises Off, he would have gone off on a rant about how the religious right is always trying to force their values on everyone else.

Not saying this as a reflection on any atheists here; this story is just about something that happened at one point in time.

[Orlion Blight]

Opinion below the spoiler.

He was well within his rights to do that, and the school was well within theirs to publish it, but I think he made a mountain out of a molehill. He touched on separation of church and state, but his biggest contention was that "by choosing to perform a religious play, you are depriving me and other atheists of our right to audition." Which....wasn't true. He could have auditioned; he just chose not to because the play conflicted with his beliefs. I did the same thing when the play chosen was a sex farce called Noises Off. The school made its choice and I made mine.

I'm not saying he didn't have a right to voice his objections, because he did. But when it came to ideological objections, he had a real double standard going on. Had I voiced my objections to Noises Off, he would have gone off on a rant about how the religious right is always trying to force their values on everyone else.

Not saying this as a reflection on any atheists here; this story is just about something that happened at one point in time.

High school does seem to be the time to "make mountains out of molehills". The unfortunate thing is there appears to be many people who do not grow out of it. 

 

I was watching an interview with Salman Rushdie, and he mentioned that he noticed a change in identity politics: instead of basing your identity on what you love, or feel passionate about, many today are basing their identity on what they hate. As a result, you get a much more reactive, aggressive, and manipulable personality.   

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

High school does seem to be the time to "make mountains out of molehills". The unfortunate thing is there appears to be many people who do not grow out of it. 

 

I was watching an interview with Salman Rushdie, and he mentioned that he noticed a change in identity politics: instead of basing your identity on what you love, or feel passionate about, many today are basing their identity on what they hate. As a result, you get a much more reactive, aggressive, and manipulable personality.   

 

Wise words from Mr. Rushdie. Case in point: this article that just showed up on my newsfeed. While I get what she's saying—if we take "be true to yourself" too far, we can harm ourselves or others—it doesn't change the fact that she nearly picked a fight with someone she didn't even know because she thought the band on his T-shirt "looked creepy." 

 

Also, she's completely missing the point of the "be true to yourself" argument. There is a harmful extreme to avoid, but 99.99 percent of those who say it don't mean "Go out and become a serial killer, if that's what your heart is telling you!" They actually mean "Stand firm in your beliefs, even when others disagree. Don't try to be someone else; be yourself. Learn what you love and pursue it." 

[Zathoth]

There are equal problems with not 'being true to yourself'. To me it sounds like "Dont think for yourself, follow the rules that others have set for you, question nothing". some people...

[Kaymyth]

You might feel more at home in the Northwest. Seattle or Portland, sure, but even Spokane--which is more conservative than Seattle--is liberal by Texas standards. The guy who sat for the Pledge? He wrote a long letter to the school drama teacher when said teacher chose Jesus Christ Superstar (described as "the Gospel of Mark on acid") as a school play, and that letter was published, uncontested, on the front page of the school paper.

Opinion below the spoiler.

He was well within his rights to do that, and the school was well within theirs to publish it, but I think he made a mountain out of a molehill. He touched on separation of church and state, but his biggest contention was that "by choosing to perform a religious play, you are depriving me and other atheists of our right to audition." Which....wasn't true. He could have auditioned; he just chose not to because the play conflicted with his beliefs. I did the same thing when the play chosen was a sex farce called Noises Off. The school made its choice and I made mine.

I'm not saying he didn't have a right to voice his objections, because he did. But when it came to ideological objections, he had a real double standard going on. Had I voiced my objections to Noises Off, he would have gone off on a rant about how the religious right is always trying to force their values on everyone else.

Not saying this as a reflection on any atheists here; this story is just about something that happened at one point in time.

 

I wouldn't actually advise a move to Portland right now.  I have friends living there, and apparently the job market is so atrociously degree-inflated that even to get a position as a barista you have have a certification that costs $$$$ and so much experience (that you usually have to get as an unpaid intern). 

 

Unpaid barista interns.

[Kipper]

@Mestiv

There has been a huge amount of debate about homeschooling in this country, and it mostly focuses on socialization, although I can think of a few studies that addressed academic achievement.

Socialization: This one is still hotly debated among homeschoolers, and the nation, and as a homeschooled person myself, I even disagree with my parents on some things. You have a different perspective when you grow up as a homeschooler. To adequately break this down, I'll mention the two basic types of homeschooling.

Unschooling is one. I don't like it, and I don't know much about it, so here is the website.

Traditional homeschooling is the other. This can be further sub-divided into two more categories:

Religious-based and Classical-based. Both of these would follow a traditional curriculum throughout the schooling years. Mind you, the parents have complete control over what their kids learn, so it might not be the same as in a public school. In my state, at least, every homeschooler (regardless of what they learned throughout the year) has to take a standard year-end test, and if they score below the the 27th percentile, they are forced to go to public school. So the motivations for homeschooling are often more perspective-based than content-based. The vast majority of parents who homeschool do it for religious reasons. They don't like the perspective on the content that is taught in school, and they would rather have it taught from their perspective.

Smarts: Some studies say that homeschoolers have higher standardized test scores than their public-schooled peers. This could be true. It is interesting to note that most of these studies were done by people influential in the honeschooling world, as well as it is interesting that most public school proponents never mention these studies. I am smart for my age, but I have friends that are not. I hesitate to say that one form of schooling provides greater access to knowledge. However. I do believe (and this is where it might get a bit offensive) that honeschooling produces people who are more learning-capable (intelligent is an imperfect word here). I have no evidence to prove this other than my own observations among a mixed group of friends.

Socialization: Aaaand this brings me to what I believe to be the dark secret of homeschooling, again, based on my own experiences as a homeschooled person. Homeschoolers are great, as a general rule, at talking with adults. They aren't so good at talking with their peers. For example, going back to what I said about being more learning-capable (or more easily able to analyze), I know quite a few people who would be more comfortable discussing the causes and effects of the Renaissance and Reformation with a group of adults than they would be discussing crushes with a group of people their age. I personally feel like I've missed a huge chunk of my life, in terms of cultural reference points, because of my schooling. Since I've become cognizant of that fact, I've worked very hard to correct it, and it's not so big of a problem anymore. But I've seen so many of my childhood friends who just crash and burn when they go to a college, because the culture shock is just too much. (And that's what it is, culture shock). On the other hand, I've had so many opportunities to do things in my life because I am homeschooled, such that I'm not sure whether I would give it all up to start over again.

Miscellany:

Homeschoolers are unfairly stereotyped. I'm not going to tell you what those are, as I'm sure that most of you get an immediate image in your mind's eye just from reading the word...ALL HOMESCHOOLERS FEEL THESE STEREOTYPES!!! And we hate them with a passion. One of the things that I can't wait for is when I go to college in a year, away from the stereotypes and problems that I'm cognizant of now, and start with a clean slate. I try not to tell people that I'm homeschooled, unless they blatantly ask.

Also, part of the problem with the whole public/home school debate is that no one is fair. People tend to focus on the good of their system and the bad of the other; never the converse.

@Blaze

I would say that your analysis is correct, except in saying that the lefter people are quieter. I don't know that I could disagree more. I read a lot of news from both sides of the political spectrum, and I consider myself to be plugged in to politics in general. Loud about different things? Yes. Same amount of loudness and butthurtedness? Yes.

Also, I think that the more lefty candidates are more interesting this election cycle. The righties are mostly all cookie-cut, except for a few minor differences. It was frankly a big surprise (a welcome one!) when Hillary got some opponents for real. I was expecting to be quite bored with the Democratic side of things...

Edit: All the comments I made about homeschoolers are generalizations, based on one person's observations, influenced by time spent with large groups of both, if that wasn't clear. I do not pretend to address individual cases of people who I have never met...

Edited September 10, 2015 by Kipper

[Blaze1616]

@Blaze

I would say that your analysis is correct, except in saying that the lefter people are quieter. I don't know that I could disagree more. I read a lot of news from both sides of the political spectrum, and I consider myself to be plugged in to politics in general. Loud about different things? Yes. Same amount of loudness and butthurtedness? Yes.

Also, I think that the more lefty candidates are more interesting this election cycle. The righties are mostly all cookie-cut, except for a few minor differences. It was frankly a big surprise (a welcome one!) when Hillary got some opponents for real. I was expecting to be quite bored with the Democratic side of things...

 

Mm, perhaps it's about living in different areas? The lefties in my neck of the woods are all very quiet about just about everything. All the major issues tend to have the left side drowned by the right; Global Warming, Economics, Abortion, Religion, LGBTQ, State v Federal laws, Immigration, Gun Control, the list goes on.

[Orlion Blight]

Unpaid barista interns.

[The Honor Spren]

Hmmm. . . on the homeschool topic, I found a few videos by the same guy who did the 10 Types of Homeschoolers video, and they are very much in line with what the homeschooler experience has been like for me:

https://youtu.be/xJHt-m3VX6o

https://youtu.be/qHg1Chcdvng

[Titan Arum]

[Orlion Blight]

Wise words from Mr. Rushdie. Case in point: this article that just showed up on my newsfeed. While I get what she's saying—if we take "be true to yourself" too far, we can harm ourselves or others—it doesn't change the fact that she nearly picked a fight with someone she didn't even know because she thought the band on his T-shirt "looked creepy." 

 

Also, she's completely missing the point of the "be true to yourself" argument. There is a harmful extreme to avoid, but 99.99 percent of those who say it don't mean "Go out and become a serial killer, if that's what your heart is telling you!" They actually mean "Stand firm in your beliefs, even when others disagree. Don't try to be someone else; be yourself. Learn what you love and pursue it." 

 

Well, she does have a very clear purpose in writing that article (which falls in line with the purpose of her blog, so no surprises there). It helps to illustrate a couple fundamental concepts:

 

1) You can not "be true to yourself" if you have not "become". Particularly young adolescents have not completely defined who they are, even if they have some characteristics nailed down. At that point, they can not be true to themselves because they have not found/established themselves. Mrs. Blogger understands this, even if she can not enunciate it (full disclosure: I skimmed the article). As a result, following her purpose, her solution is to reinforce a specific identity onto the youngling. Which brings up:

 

2) We like to project our identities on others, mold them into our own images. This tends to be unhealthy, because even if one does not know who they are, they very often can recognize who they are not. This dialectic and the projector's unwillingness to accept that they are mistaken lead to familiar conflicts, manifested in such cliched phrases such as, "You just don't understand" "I've been around the block a few times, and I've realized that" "You're being corrupted by leftist/secular/atheist ideologies!" and so on and so forth. 

[Mckeedee123]

Well, I'm impressed that my question about the Pledge started such a discussion... I obviously don't really have a stance on it. All I can say is that in Poland, patriotism is a big thing, although there seems to be a division into two kinds of people that call themselves patriots. This division I think is present in other European countries as well, as we have a wave of nationalism spreading around the continent.

 

Polish patriots version 1: People that believe that their country is the best and are very much against mixing cultures or accepting immigrants. They believe, that the European Union is there to destroy Poland, and they want to "protect" us from it's devious influence. This kind of people are always very conservative and I'd say too religious. Some even want to nominate Mary (mother of Jesus) as queen of Poland   If we had something like the Pledge in Poland, this kind of people would probably scream it in top of their lungs. Those kind of patriots currently believe that our country is ruled by people whose main objective is to destroy Poland 

 

Polish patriots version 2: I'd say that's the left-winged kind. More open to other cultures and nations. Support european integration, while preserving out cultural heritage. Support their country by paying taxes, taking care of their surroundings and obeying the laws etc. Unfortunately, this group is smaller than the former one or at least the first group is much more visible and louder. 

 

I really hope that the nationalist kind of patriots won't start winning elections across Europe, they really scare me...

 

 

Re: homeschooling

This thing is foreign to me too. Here in Poland, public/institutional schooling is mandatory. Only kids with severe psychological disorders or serious health issues are allowed to be schooled in their homes. I'm not sure what to think about it. I guess I'm happy that we don't have homeschooling, as I think to many parents would totally neglect their children education in some fields. Like, both parents were poor at math, so the kid will only know the very basics, even if he/she has a knack for it.

 

Re: Introverts/Extraverts

I'm an introvert or an amivert myself. I have no problem with social interactions, but if I go for couple of days without some time for myself I'm getting really grumpy. So, yeah, when I go to family diner during Easter, where we have something around 30 (yes, that many) people at one table I don't feel that bad

 

I'd say that most Americans lost their rabid nationalism during the Vietnam War. Our culture and post-WWII national pride never really recovered from the 60's.

 

By the way, I've never seen an obese person riding an electric scooter in my life, but I want one.

[Blaze1616]

By the way, I've never seen an obese person riding an electric scooter in my life, but I want one.

 

The scooter, the obese person, or the obese person riding the scooter?

[ParadoxicalZen]

I really want to trick out one of those scooters with fast engines...just for the laughs

[The Sovereign]

And now, this: