Isles of the Emberdark Reading Discussion

[Arkangel]

1 hour ago, Argenti said:

You would not.

Curses. Foiled again.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Arkangel said:

Curses. Foiled again.

Nah Foil is a different guy.

[Nesh he/him]

11 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I don't think the timeline matches up for that. The letter happened in Stormlight Archive, which as a whole takes place around Era 2 Mistborn. Starling's banishment happened 50 years before Emberdark. So unless the Southern Scadrians have already figured out Space Travel years before Wax was even born, I don't think that is why.

It's already said that Frost is 'frosty' with Hoid because he's meddling with other worlds, with Adonalsium's design. Though if Hoid is indeed involved in the circumstances of Starling's banishment, then it's definitely not gotten any better.

I think you slightly misread what I was saying.  I know that Frost and Hoid's relationship is bad because of Hoid's interference in other worlds, something he was doing well before Stormlight.  The letter was in Stormlight yes, but the falling out was before that even.

I simply meant that Hoidtaking Starling as an apprentice mighr have been, or led to the event that got Starling banished.

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Nah Foil is a different guy.

Well, he is in this story

[Forts Board]

2 hours ago, Nesh said:

I simply meant that Hoidtaking Starling as an apprentice mighr have been, or led to the event that got Starling banished.

I'm not sure if that would be feasible with regards to the timeline, because we know that since the start of Stormlight Hoid has been rather busy. Maybe this is something that started a long time ago- and isn't the reason that Frost dislikes Hoid, but actually happens because of how much Frost respects him. 

[BinarySecond]

I apologise for my previous facetious question, but there is a genuine curiousity to it. I don't really understand the importance of Aviar to the cosmere - Why are they so important compared to something like Allomancy or a Knight Radiant (with a gun?)

[Nesh he/him]

46 minutes ago, Forts Board said:

I'm not sure if that would be feasible with regards to the timeline, because we know that since the start of Stormlight Hoid has been rather busy. Maybe this is something that started a long time ago- and isn't the reason that Frost dislikes Hoid, but actually happens because of how much Frost respects him. 

Yes, but this is well after Stormlight most likely there's plenty of room for suff to happen, given we're probably somewhere between Mistborn Eras 3 & 4, closer to Era 4.

[Dofurion]

38 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

I apologise for my previous facetious question, but there is a genuine curiousity to it. I don't really understand the importance of Aviar to the cosmere - Why are they so important compared to something like Allomancy or a Knight Radiant (with a gun?)

I think I've used this analogy before but it best sums it up: Aviars are Sprens without oaths that grant allomancy.
They have an immense number of advantages over other sources of investiture:

• They are not restricted to a specific inheritance.
• They do not need to comply with a series of restrictive rules.
• The amount of powers they can grant seems to be equivalent to the number of bird species existing (in the entire cosmere)
• It is highly reusable and can be passed on to someone else with very few mishaps.

This is hemalurgy, it is the drawbacks of hemalurgy, surgebinding without the drawbacks of surgebinding.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, BinarySecond said:

I apologise for my previous facetious question, but there is a genuine curiousity to it. I don't really understand the importance of Aviar to the cosmere - Why are they so important compared to something like Allomancy or a Knight Radiant (with a gun?)

Based on this WoB I think they can probably help traverse the emberdark:

Quote

AndrewStirlingMacDonald

So there are many--According to Sixth of the Dusk, there are many commonly known aviar talents, can you give us a couple? Like examples we haven’t seen yet?

Brandon Sanderson

Those are from the notes, I’d have to dig them out. Let’s just say they’ll be very useful for navigation in the future.

Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016)

[Arkangel]

25 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Based on this WoB I think they can probably help traverse the emberdark:

So basically spice from Dune.

[BinarySecond]

Thanks everyone, I understand now!

[The flying spider he/him]

Just saw that they add this in the project update: 

All his life, Sixth of the Dusk has been a traditional trapper of Aviar—the supernatural birds his people bond with—on the deadly island of Patji. Then one fateful night he propels his people into a race to modernize before they can be conquered by the Ones Above, invaders from the stars who want to exploit the Aviar.

 

But it’s a race they’re losing, and Dusk fears his people will lose themselves in the effort. When a chance comes to sail into the expanse of the emberdark beyond a mystical portal, Dusk sets off to find his people’s salvation with only a canoe, his birds, and all the grit and canniness of a Patji trapper.

 

Elsewhere in the emberdark is a young dragon chained in human form: Starling of the starship Dynamic. She and her ragtag crew of exiles are deep in debt and on the brink of losing their freedom. So when she finds an ancient map to a hidden portal between the emberdark and the physical realm, she seizes the chance at a lucrative discovery.

 

These unlikely allies might just be the solution to each other’s crisis. In their search for independence, Dusk and Starling face perilous bargains, poisonous politics, and the destructive echo of a dead god. 

 

I guess this would explain why Xisis is in such a bad situation.

[alder24]

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Frost seems to be quite influential, having a palace, a throne and personal priests. You are raising an important question. Who dared put his niece in shackles? Do dragons have a government powerful enough to do that? If so, what was important enough to antagonize Frost?

I actually thought that it was Frost that exiled her for some reason. Knowing how strictly non-interventionist Frost is, Starling might have been pushed by Hoid to do something with which Frost might not agree. Something drastic, which influenced politics on a greater scale and possibly against dragon’s traditions, so other dragons would want to exile her and Frost agreed with them.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

How come they have prejudices about dragons? Does that mean that Yolen has come out of seclusion?

Dragons exist outside of Yolen. One only needs to look at Xisis on Lumar to know how many different stories about dragons might exist across Cosmere.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Why does Xisis sink low enough to own a ship crewed with misfits?

Dragons are entrepreneurs, they have businesses, own companies etc. I bet Xisis is exploiting the fact that he recently acquired a skilled captain, so why not use her to run him merchant errands across Cosmere? But the choice of crewmembers is interesting.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

And even more fundamental, why has the avatar not reacted to Scadrians enroaching on the autonomy of First of the Sun?

If Scadrians have a way to deal with Avatars (they kind of dealt with Trell already), then it makes sense why Patji would sit quietly. If not then that's a good question. But I think the answer is simple - he sent Dusk. Patji might have put Dusk in a position to help.

 

17 hours ago, Nesh said:

I simply meant that Hoidtaking Starling as an apprentice mighr have been, or led to the event that got Starling banished.

I agree, I think Hoid is partially responsible for that.

 

2 hours ago, The flying spider said:

I guess this would explain why Xisis is in such a bad situation.

DId I miss something from the reading where it said Xisis is in a bad position? I didn't get that. Sure, the ship is old and junky, Xisis owns it, but Starling also said it's her ship. So if someone is in debt, I bet they're indebted to Xisis, risking becoming his slaves - not all as Aditil can just leave, or the Sleepless who was chosen by Hoid and it's there temporarily.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

16 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I apologise for my previous facetious question, but there is a genuine curiousity to it. I don't really understand the importance of Aviar to the cosmere - Why are they so important compared to something like Allomancy or a Knight Radiant (with a gun?)

• Allomancy and Feruchemy grant a strictly limited set of abilities
• The other powers require an external fuel (Stormlight, purified Dor, Breaths)
• Aethers bound you to a core aether and are not fully usable without extra fuel on many worlds

 

15 hours ago, Dofurion said:

I think I've used this analogy before but it best sums it up: Aviars are Sprens without oaths that grant allomancy.

Spren need Stormlight. Without it a spren gives you only a blade and maybe armour, no powers.

49 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I actually thought that it was Frost that exiled her for some reason. Knowing how strictly non-interventionist Frost is, Starling might have been pushed by Hoid to do something with which Frost might not agree. Something drastic, which influenced politics on a greater scale and possibly against dragon’s traditions, so other dragons would want to exile her and Frost agreed with them.

But in that case she already would have left Yolen.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

But in that case she already would have left Yolen.

That's not necessary. She could have met Hoid on Yolen and done something on Yolen, which was against Frost's ideology. We know from the reading that she started exploring Cosmere after being exiled.

Quote

There was at least one blessing about being exiled: it turned out that there were a whole lot of places that weren’t home—and many of them were vibrant, magnificent, and amazing. She’d never have visited them if she hadn’t been forced out into the cosmere against her will.

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

40 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's not necessary. She could have met Hoid on Yolen and done something on Yolen, which was against Frost's ideology. We know from the reading that she started exploring Cosmere after being exiled.

 

So the one who is against intervention sends out a dragon who has a very good reason to be angry and is driven by relative powerlessness to action?

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So the one who is against intervention sends out a dragon who has a very good reason to be angry and is driven by relative powerlessness to action?

Or Frost is taking care of a mess Starling did on Yolen, while she is exiled from her beloved home and her powers were taken away from her, so she would not mess things up again - all to teach her a lesson of some kind. Maybe she's on Xisis' ship so they can watch over her.

[JPGU]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

So the one who is against intervention sends out a dragon who has a very good reason to be angry and is driven by relative powerlessness to action?

Well, considering how advanced the cosmere is and the interaction between entire civilizations, I doubt that Frost's policy of non-intervention makes any sense today.

[Ironeyes]

I just read Chapter 4, and it's really starting to sound like Sunlit Man. An ancient, famous navigator led a group of people through Shadesmar to a new planet with a unique form of Investiture. Brandon's on a Moses story kick recently, it seems.

My money is on Dusk spending the book finding a new planet for his people to settle, then leading an exodus and leaving the huge empires to fight over their planet. 

[The flying spider he/him]

41 minutes ago, Ironeyes said:

I just read Chapter 4,

 is chapter 4 out or Is that a typo?

[Dofurion]

1 hour ago, Ironeyes said:

My money is on Dusk spending the book finding a new planet for his people to settle, then leading an exodus and leaving the huge empires to fight over their planet. 

It seems to me that he will establish commercial relations with Xisis (aka Dragon) and that will put them in political neutrality with respect to the war between Scadrial and Roshar.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

43 minutes ago, The flying spider said:

 is chapter 4 out or Is that a typo?

It is not, after all, a typo. Go subscribe to the newsletter.

[Forts Board]

57 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

It is not, after all, a typo. Go subscribe to the newsletter.

Is the newsletter the only place to get it?

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

26 minutes ago, Forts Board said:

Is the newsletter the only place to get it?

I believe so, yeah.

[Forts Board]

11 hours ago, The flying spider said:

Dusk sets off to find his people’s salvation with only a canoe, his birds,

Also, just noticed this. Dusk has birds plural again?

3 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

I believe so, yeah